Retracting Head Ter Ter Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 I've always wondered...who would win if you pit Yamato vs Bismarck? Yamato probably would...it was MUCH bigger than the Bismarck (you have to remember...the Bismarck and other German battlewagons was built by packing as many guns on the smallest frame possible, so that the Germans could get around the Versailles limitations) and it was said that when the Yamato made its kamakaze run in April 1945, there were a total of six IOWA-class battleships ready to blast the Yamato if the air attack hadn't done the job. The ships built around the Versailles Treaty were the Deustchland (sp?) class pocket BBs. 10000 tons. The Bismarck was built with no regard to anything much. 4 turrets with 2 guns apiece is not a good idea IMHO. 3 x 3 is better. Its easier to lose 1 turret out of 4 then 1 turret out of 3. And when you lose 1 turret, you are still down to 6 barrels regardless of whether you started with 8 or 9. The Germans used twin turrets only because they did not have much experience with triples. There was never SIX Iowa class ships btw. 4 max. The Montana could probably have taken a Yamato down easy. Almost the same displacement, but 12 guns with superior fire control outmatchs Yamato's 9 guns with inferior fire control (inferior when compared to late war US radar control systems that is, Japanese optics were reputedly world class). Of course with these juggernaughts slugging it out, a lucky hit could decide things early either way. The Montana was armoured to resist the 16/50 superheavy shells. The Iowa's were armoured to resist the 16/45. Yamato's 18.1 shells were heavier then the USN's 16/50 superheavies but their design was apparantly inferior. Of course, when I say 'armoured to resist' I mean it provides reasonable protection at certain ranges. At long range, incoming shots hit the deck. At closer ranges incoming shots hit the sides of the hull. No battleship is theoretically immune to everything at all ranges. Its also important to note that battleships are not armoured all over the place! The armour belt and deck only covers a small portion of the surface area. If you armoured the ship from fore to aft, either your armour is way too thin or the ship will weigh a zillion tons and sink immediately. Even a 'little' 5 inch shell from a destroyer can punch holes all over the hull/superstructure of Iowa/Yamato/Montana if it hits outside the armoure belting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retracting Head Ter Ter Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 I can't read much of the article, but it seems like its a theme park kinda thing. Not a movie prop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mislovrit Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 According to one of the websites, it took over 20 bombs and torpedoes to sink the Yamato and that was with upgrades air defenses. Even upgraded, the Yamato air defences were barely equal to U.S. light crusiers and late WWII destroyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Payne Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 (edited) The ships built around the Versailles Treaty were the Deustchland (sp?) class pocket BBs. 10000 tons. Yeah, my bad. I was conflating the Graf Spee and her sisters with the Bismarck. I forgot that by the time Bismarck was built, Hitler had already shredded Versailles. There was never SIX Iowa class ships btw. 4 max. You're right about that. My source (the official US Navy historical webpage) said six battleships as a backup, and I misinterpreted that to mean six Iowas. Again my bad. The Montana could probably have taken a Yamato down easy. IINM, wasn't the Montana class built as an answer to Yamato and Musashi? If you armoured the ship from fore to aft, either your armour is way too thin or the ship will weigh a zillion tons and sink immediately. It reminds me of that old aircraft joke: "Q: If the black box is indestructible, why not make the whole plane out of the same stuff? A: Because there's no highway big enough to drive it on." BTW, from the same website (although a different page), here's the original of that Yamato under construction picture. As you can see, she's actually doing her final fitting out before commissioning. Edited June 1, 2005 by Pat Payne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Like when they built that huge mock-up of the Titanic for the movie? There is concrete, but where the ship curves, there appears to be wood planks being used as a floor. That would be my guess as well. It has the appearance of a rather-large-but-partial set that would likely be extended by CGI. What other purpose would an incomplete 1/1 Yamato serve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechamaniac Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 (edited) Like when they built that huge mock-up of the Titanic for the movie? There is concrete, but where the ship curves, there appears to be wood planks being used as a floor. That would be my guess as well. It has the appearance of a rather-large-but-partial set that would likely be extended by CGI. What other purpose would an incomplete 1/1 Yamato serve? It's a movie set... Here's proof... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0451845/ Oh, not enough proof?... Here's more... http://www.yamato-movie.jp/ Still more... http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/...0505140120.html http://www.oshipee.com/omami/e-frame-photo.htm and here are some GREAT shots of the 1/10 model...(under Warships, click on the first image.) http://www.oshipee.com/omami/e-frame-photo.htm So, definitely a movie, I wonder if it will be subbed and released anywhere but Japan? Oh, and at the bottom of the Asahi link, it tells you where you can go see the 1/10 model..and eventually, the 1/1 model! Otokotachi no Yamato'' stars Takashi Sorimachi and Shido Nakamura. Filming is due to be completed in October. The movie is to open nationwide in December. Plans call for the life-size model used in the film to be preserved in Onomichi.The Yamato Museum opened April 23 in nearby Kure, Hiroshima Prefecture, where the actual Yamato was built. On display, besides photos, are fragments salvaged from the sunken battleship, comprising about one-tenth of the entire ship. These remains were used in filming. The museum's admission charge is 500 yen for adults, 300 yen for senior high school students, and 200 yen for elementary school students. For further information contact the museum at 0823-25-3017.(IHT/Asahi: May 14,2005) Edited June 1, 2005 by Mechamaniac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 The Iowa class was designed to be the counter to the Yamato. Yamato was believed to mount 16inch guns, and be 45-50,000tons. Thus the Iowas are about that. One guy said the Yamato was MUCH larger, and had 18inch guns. US Navy said "no way, we'd notice if there was a factory making 18 inch guns, and the Japanese can't build ships that large". The lone dissenter was proven right many years later of course. Kind of like how in the 1930's, it was believed Japan's most advanced planes were biplanes, despite reports from the Flying Tigers in China that the Zero etc existed, and was more than a match for a P-40. Finally--6 Iowas were laid down, only 4 finished. BB65 Illinois, BB66 Kentucky. Kentucky was at least 2/3 finished before scrapping (maybe even 3/4, I can't remember), its engines were removed to power 2 AOE-1 class ships. (And each having only half the power of an Iowa-class, they are by far the fastest refuellers in the fleet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddsun1 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Hear hear! Someone else who understands great movies aren't all about how powerful your I-Mac or-whatever-the-hell-they-are graphics stations are. From the third link posted above... Why, one wonders, in this age of computer graphics, is a full-size model necessary? ``Computer graphics wouldn't give you a genuine feeling of the Yamato's enormous size,'' says producer Haruki Kadokawa, who has numerous hit movies to his credit. ``You couldn't get the reality of it across with computer graphics. On the big screen the difference would be obvious at a glance. A movie rises or falls on how real its make-believe seems, so we do everything we can to simulate reality.'' Oh, okay; so they've apparently only built the front half of the ship, and not the entire thing (that makes more sense, but still hella expensive--how much is 600 mil. yen roughly?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beltane70 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 600 million yen is about 6 million US dollars. Even though, it's not exact, to figure yen to dollars just move your decimal place 2 spaces to the left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter Posted June 2, 2005 Author Share Posted June 2, 2005 Like when they built that huge mock-up of the Titanic for the movie? There is concrete, but where the ship curves, there appears to be wood planks being used as a floor. That would be my guess as well. It has the appearance of a rather-large-but-partial set that would likely be extended by CGI. What other purpose would an incomplete 1/1 Yamato serve? It's a movie set... Here's proof... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0451845/ Oh, not enough proof?... Here's more... http://www.yamato-movie.jp/ Still more... http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/...0505140120.html http://www.oshipee.com/omami/e-frame-photo.htm and here are some GREAT shots of the 1/10 model...(under Warships, click on the first image.) http://www.oshipee.com/omami/e-frame-photo.htm So, definitely a movie, I wonder if it will be subbed and released anywhere but Japan? Oh, and at the bottom of the Asahi link, it tells you where you can go see the 1/10 model..and eventually, the 1/1 model! Otokotachi no Yamato'' stars Takashi Sorimachi and Shido Nakamura. Filming is due to be completed in October. The movie is to open nationwide in December. Plans call for the life-size model used in the film to be preserved in Onomichi.The Yamato Museum opened April 23 in nearby Kure, Hiroshima Prefecture, where the actual Yamato was built. On display, besides photos, are fragments salvaged from the sunken battleship, comprising about one-tenth of the entire ship. These remains were used in filming. The museum's admission charge is 500 yen for adults, 300 yen for senior high school students, and 200 yen for elementary school students. For further information contact the museum at 0823-25-3017.(IHT/Asahi: May 14,2005) Thank you sooooo much for the clarification. That's all I wanted when I started this thread...just a little more info on the picture I found, not a huge debate/pissing contest on which country produced the most powerful battleship. Wow, they've spent 600 million Yen on the model that's only 2/3 complete! One part of the article caught me by surprise: "Never had I seen such a huge film prop. The noise of the guns as the war scenes were being filmed-anti-aircraft guns, machine guns, and the huge 46-cm main guns boasting a range of 42 kilometers-was so overwhelming I had to keep my hands pressed to my ears in order to stand it. " They wouldn't have gone to the trouble to reconstruct working guns would they? He's obviously talking about pyroteniques used in the filming right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjenius81 Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Thats awesome. I wish it was a full 1/1 scale replica, but take what you can get. Ill definetly be buying that movie on DVD when I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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