Which CONSOLE!?

[mikeszekely]

Course Sony stuff has generally been friendly to me, though... from my P900 to my VAIO to my HDTV...

Ironically, I have problems with my VAIO's power supply fan, and my friend's VAIO had a faulty processor. My VAIO laptop is good, though.

When I get around to buying an HDTV, I don't think I'm going to go with Sony. I think their HDTV's are RPLCD anyway, and think I'm going to go with DLP.

I did have one friend who's PS2 finally went out last year, but he also used it as his DVD player

I've heard stories that using the PS2 as a DVD player had something to do with it, but I'm not entirely certain that's it. When I first got my PS2, I used it as a DVD player, but then I shortly bought a stand-alone DVD player. My PS2 was fine until last spring, when it stopped playing CD-ROM games.

[mikeszekely]

Personally, I'd like to see Sony's numbers adjusted to take into account how many consumers had to buy more than one.  I'd like to cut their numbers in half (two per consumer... I think that's fair, considering that I know more people on their third PS2 than I know who are still only on their first)...

This has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever read on MarossWorld.

Then I strongly suggest you go back and re-read your last 25 or so posts.

LOL, why, all I have to do is read your one.

Alright, I'll walk you thought it one more time, then.

You sales figures say nothing about the upcoming generation. All they say is that Sony outsold the competition by large ammounts, and while I'm happy that your original PS2 still works, it's still a fact that the numbers would be lower if the PS2 wasn't such a shoddy unit and many people wound up buying more than one unit, the only question is how many units those repeat customers account for. I'm still comfortable saying half.

Looking at Nintendo's sales numbers in your same post, we do see plenty of evidence that whoever leads the industry one day can be at the bottom the next. PlayStation will not always be the dominant brand.

But most of all, what folly is it to buy into a brand known for making outrageous claims about the power of their hardware that wind up falling flat, a brand that's also know for selling shoddy hardware, simply because it outsold the competition previously? Like I told Blaine a few posts ago, it's one thing if you really like what exclusives a console has, and really believe that the competition has nothing you'd like, but to say, "I'll go with PS3, because PS2 outsold the competition" is probably the stupidest reason I can think of.

Microsoft has proven the Xbox brand. To have outsold Nintendo on their first try in an industry where an American console hasn't even been remotely successful since the days of Atari says a lot. They are working harder to get more Japanese developers on board. Again, they might not pass Sony in this round, but they're going to catch up. And while I'm sure that the PS3 is going to end up with some games that'll have me buying one, right now the Xbox 360 looks like it's going to have better ones.

[Duke Togo]

Ok, Buck!

[Blaine23]

I see what you're saying too, but the difference between brand loytalty and fanboyism is that brand loyalty assumes the brand is better until proven otherwise, while fanboyism holds out that their brand is better in the face of proof otherwise.

Thing about what you're saying about your brand loyalty.  Two very solid game machines?  What do you mean by solid?  I personally went through two original PlayStations, and I'm on my second PS2.  Is shoddy hardware what you mean by solid?  And how did that earn your loyalty?  It's true though, that the PS2 has had more games, especially from Japan.  But it seems like most of the games developed by American or European studios end up on at least the PS2 and the Xbox... with the Xbox version often looking better and having better load times.  (For the future, Microsoft seems to be working much harder to woo some Japanese developers).

And what's this compatibility with friends' consoles?  It's true that almost everyone I know has owned a PS2 at some point, but many of them chose not to buy another when theirs died.  Most of my close friends got an Xbox instead (or like me, got another PS2 but still got an Xbox).  End result?  I know more people with an Xbox today than I do with a PS2.

Like King Nor said, go where the games are.  When I voted in this poll, I picked the "more than one" option, because, as a gamer, I think there will be some games I want to play on probably all the new consoles.  Even as a casual gamer, you should really look and see what games might appeal to you on each console.  If you really don't find anything you like on the Xbox 360, and the games that are going to be coming out for the PS3 look good to you, you might still decide that the PS3 will be the only next-gen console for you.  But at least at that point, you'll have made an informed decision instead of just following the PlayStation brand into whatever gutter Sony decided to take it.

Well, I can only speak for myself and those around me, but both my Playstation and my PS2 both still work like clockwork. The two or three friends I have that I borrow and trade games have fully working original PS2's and that's what I'm basing my opinion on. I can't really call it shoddy if it's working like a champ after 3 years of ownership, can I? Or should I believe you instead of looking at my own entertainment system? I don't even know anybody who's PS2 is broken except for my cousin who's kid poured a Coke on it.

I've got a friend with an X-Box, it seems like a fine game system. The only game I like that PS doesn't have that we played is Halo and Halo 2. I don't have anything against it, I just don't see any reason to buy an X-Box instead of what I already have.

I have looked at the games and I'll probably buy a Playstation. No offense to the X-Box, but there will be more titles for the Playstation (as there are now) and all of the titles I enjoy now will definitely be on PS3... so why on Earth would I switch? Because you say I should? That's goofy.

It seems like you're very into your video games and very much into your X-Box. Good for you. I don't have any problem with that. But I think it's a bit silly to runaround calling people who buy Playstations "fanboys like MGREXXX".

But don't assume that every consumer hasn't looked into what they're buying (or is a blinded idiot) just because they aren't doing what you are. Live and let live.

You're far, far more of an X-Box zealot than anyone you're accusing of being a Playstation fanboy.

Edited June 17, 2005 by Blaine23

[NSJ23]

My PS2 was fine until last spring, when it stopped playing CD-ROM games.

That can be fixed really easy, I have had to tweek my launch day PS2 only once to stop the DRE on blue disks.

[Shadow Skull]

mikeszekely and Blaine, could you two provide a rough estimate on how often your friends used their PS2s? I know that electronics will usually wear out quicker under heavy use regardless of the machines quality, I wondering if that might be the case here.

[Oihan]

Personally, I'd like to see Sony's numbers adjusted to take into account how many consumers had to buy more than one.  I'd like to cut their numbers in half (two per consumer... I think that's fair, considering that I know more people on their third PS2 than I know who are still only on their first)...

This has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever read on MarossWorld.

How is it stupid? It'd be more accurate as to how many people own the gaming system. Hell, if MS and Nintendo did what Sony did, I'm sure their sales would be through the roof too with all the consoles they sold, but Nintendo and MS made a better product in the end. It's bullshit that one should have to buy a second, let a lone a third, fourth, or fifth unit just cause the first/second/third one failed. I mean, come the f*ck on. Way to lead the market with POS quality consoles, GG. I love my PSX, it still runs perfectly, but with all the bs problems with the PS2...f*ck em. I pray Sony doesn't make a bigger ass out of themselves and do things right this time by making a dependable system.

[Oihan]

I see what you're saying too, but the difference between brand loytalty and fanboyism is that brand loyalty assumes the brand is better until proven otherwise, while fanboyism holds out that their brand is better in the face of proof otherwise.

Thing about what you're saying about your brand loyalty.  Two very solid game machines?  What do you mean by solid?  I personally went through two original PlayStations, and I'm on my second PS2.  Is shoddy hardware what you mean by solid?  And how did that earn your loyalty?  It's true though, that the PS2 has had more games, especially from Japan.  But it seems like most of the games developed by American or European studios end up on at least the PS2 and the Xbox... with the Xbox version often looking better and having better load times.  (For the future, Microsoft seems to be working much harder to woo some Japanese developers).

And what's this compatibility with friends' consoles?  It's true that almost everyone I know has owned a PS2 at some point, but many of them chose not to buy another when theirs died.  Most of my close friends got an Xbox instead (or like me, got another PS2 but still got an Xbox).  End result?  I know more people with an Xbox today than I do with a PS2.

Like King Nor said, go where the games are.  When I voted in this poll, I picked the "more than one" option, because, as a gamer, I think there will be some games I want to play on probably all the new consoles.  Even as a casual gamer, you should really look and see what games might appeal to you on each console.  If you really don't find anything you like on the Xbox 360, and the games that are going to be coming out for the PS3 look good to you, you might still decide that the PS3 will be the only next-gen console for you.  But at least at that point, you'll have made an informed decision instead of just following the PlayStation brand into whatever gutter Sony decided to take it.

Well, I can only speak for myself and those around me, but both my Playstation and my PS2 both still work like clockwork. The two or three friends I have that I borrow and trade games have fully working original PS2's and that's what I'm basing my opinion on. I can't really call it shoddy if it's working like a champ after 3 years of ownership, can I? Or should I believe you instead of looking at my own entertainment system? I don't even know anybody who's PS2 is broken except for my cousin who's kid poured a Coke on it.

I've got a friend with an X-Box, it seems like a fine game system. The only game I like that PS doesn't have that we played is Halo and Halo 2. I don't have anything against it, I just don't see any reason to buy an X-Box instead of what I already have.

I have looked at the games and I'll probably buy a Playstation. No offense to the X-Box, but there will be more titles for the Playstation (as there are now) and all of the titles I enjoy now will definitely be on PS3... so why on Earth would I switch? Because you say I should? That's goofy.

It seems like you're very into your video games and very much into your X-Box. Good for you. I don't have any problem with that. But I think it's a bit silly to runaround calling people who buy Playstations "fanboys like MGREXXX".

But don't assume that every consumer hasn't looked into what they're buying (or is a blinded idiot) just because they aren't doing what you are. Live and let live.

You're far, far more of an X-Box zealot than anyone you're accusing of being a Playstation fanboy.

I don't see how he's being a XBox zealot, but whatever.

BTW, I completely agree with you mikeszekely.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

My PS2 got DRE a year after opening it. Ever since then, understandably I am cautious with Sony. Just because the majority of people I have encountered had perfect working systems does not mean I am going to be guaranteed a perfect system when PS3 comes out. After my experience I am just worried about it happening again. Theres nothing unreasonable with that. I for one am glad most of you here have not had to go through with the DRE. DRE sucks. Can you believe that I only got to play aero elite academy NOW? Great game...but I had to wait till I had another PS2 to be able to play. Sucks when stuff breaks.

[Duke Togo]

I don't see how he's being a XBox zealot, but whatever.

BTW, I completely agree with you mikeszekely.

The blind leading the blind...

[bsu legato]

*raises hand

Can I vote for the PS3 without being branded a "Sony Fanboy?" I do 99% of my gaming on a PC anyway, but if I do get a console then the PS3 is the front runner.

[JB0]

I did have one friend who's PS2 finally went out last year, but he also used it as his DVD player

I've heard stories that using the PS2 as a DVD player had something to do with it, but I'm not entirely certain that's it. When I first got my PS2, I used it as a DVD player, but then I shortly bought a stand-alone DVD player. My PS2 was fine until last spring, when it stopped playing CD-ROM games.

I've been told using CDs in the PS2 makes it die faster.

But the guy offering said theory was an idiot, and his explanations for why were totally unsound and made false assumptions on how the drive works.

Personally: I've got a 7000 series PS1. The drive open button is worn and must be fiddled with to get the door to lock back down when you close it. I've had black plastic tabs fall out of the case on 2 seperate occasions, which raises a few red flags. But as of yet the system has not outright failed on me.

My sister bought a "refurbished" PS2 from EB. Had to exchange it twice to get a properly-functioning one. The shopkeeper wass rather annoyed by the whole sequence, and gave her a free magazine for her trouble plus promised a complaint to corporate because it just shouldn't be happening.

On both systems the pure plastic drive mech is a major weakness.

As a longstanding keeper of old hardware, I find it offensive.

The PlayStation hardware is explicitly DESIGNED to fail.

Sadly, the Dreamcast drive mechs also have a "weak point", despite the superior construction of the mech(YAY! METAL DRIVE RAILS!). They used cheap spindle motors that wear out fast. When the brushes go, the motors short out and blow the drive controller on the motherboard. Which is a custom part, and impossible to replace without another Dreamcsat to sacrifice.

[Druna Skass]

Does any have a PS2 that died on them that they didn't get at launch?

I had to get a second one about a year after launch and I've treated it like my b!tch and it still works. The contoler I got at launch still works too, the left stick squeaks but still working.

[areaseven]

None of the above. PCs (especially those powered by the AMD Athlon 64) will always beat any console.

[JB0]

Does any have a PS2 that died on them that they didn't get at launch?

I had to get a second one about a year after launch and I've treated it like my b!tch and it still works. The contoler I got at launch still works too, the left stick squeaks but still working.

My sister's were a 30k, 35k, and a second 30k.

[JB0]

None of the above. PCs (especially those powered by the AMD Athlon 64) will always beat any console.

Meh.

I play PC games from time to time.

But I'm not fond of the "standard" controller, find keeping up with the hardware more difficult (and costly) than on consoles, and while there are a few I enjoy, most of the games I like just aren't on PCs.

[Duke Togo]

AMD Athlon 64 3700+ "San Diego" owner here. I do most of my gaming on PC these days, but I really don't do much gaming anymore. Only when a big title comes out that really grabs me. I have had MGS3 and Xenosaga II waiting to be played on my PS2, and I haven't gotten into them yet.

Personally, I am waiting for Elderscrolls IV, Civ IV, and Fable: TLC. Final Fantasy XII is the only game I have my sights set on for the PS2. My best friend is going to be picking up Romance of the Three Kingdoms X soon, and we'll be into that for a while.

Edited June 17, 2005 by Duke Togo

[Dangard Ace]

All I've got to chime in on is that my launch day PS2 is working fine. PS2 games work fine (DVD and CD) and I always have it playing DVD's almost every single night when I'm home. Still works like a charm. I will say that I did take it apart last Jan to clean the lens because I was starting to get some DRE on DVD's I knew used to work. Cleaned and recalibrated the lens and it keeps on trucking.

[Duke Togo]

Now that I think of it, my launch PS2's controller did die on me while playing Ace Combat IV last Fall. Had to buy a new one when GTA:SA came out. The system itself is fine, though, and I've given it a cleaning like DA has.

[mikeszekely]

mikeszekely and Blaine, could you two provide a rough estimate on how often your friends used their PS2s? I know that electronics will usually wear out quicker under heavy use regardless of the machines quality, I wondering if that might be the case here.

Myself and my three closest friends, all of whom had multiple consoles, would alternate between the consoles. That is, sometimes it'd seem like Xbox was going through a hot streak, and a month or two would go by before we'd touch our PS2s. But then PS2 would be on a hot streak, and we'd be using it for something like 4-5 hours a day every day for a month.

My brother, who bought a PS2 well after launch, found that it didn't work pretty much out of the box. He exchanged it, and he'd play for maybe 5-6 hours a week for a year. Then it died, so he bought an Xbox.

Can I vote for the PS3 without being branded a "Sony Fanboy?"

Sure, as long as your reasoning extends beyond "because you know Sony's going to dominate."

It seems like you're very into your video games

Absolutely.

You're far, far more of an X-Box zealot than anyone you're accusing of being a Playstation fanboy.

Ironically, I play more games on and own more games for the PS2. The Xbox has had some really great games, but the PS2 does have more exclusvies. When it comes to games on both consoles, I'll get whichever version I find most accessible... that is, usually something like FPS on the Xbox, racers and fighers on the PS2.

Looking ahead, though, I see launch games I actually want for the Xbox 360. I like the changes they're making to Live. I see Microsoft busting their asses trying to get more Japanese developers on board. But with Sony, I see them dicking around on the hard drive issue... again. I don't see a console that's leaps and bounds beyond the Xbox 360, despite the corporate hype. I can assume that they'll have some games I'll want (another God of War, please!), but they haven't announced anything that interests me yet.

As an unbiased, hardcore gamer, I see more promise in the Xbox 360. That's true. But I'm not against the PS3, or people wanting the PS3. I'm sure there are people out there who might not think Fable 2, Halo 3, Perfect Dark Zero, DoA 4, etc, are that exciting. I'm sure there are people who would buy a PS3 just for the promise of Devil May Cry 4 or SOCOM 4. I've got no problem with that.

I don't, however, consider "it must be good, because it's PlayStation" an informed decision. It may be more simple-minded consumerism than actual fanboy loyalty, but the end result is the same. The only difference is that a fanboy has more passion.

Oh, and for those of you who still have their original PS2s, believe me when I say that you're a minority (and even then, most of you admitted to doing some "tweeking" to keep it working).

[Dangard Ace]

Oh, and for those of you who still have their original PS2s, believe me when I say that you're a minority (and even then, most of you admitted to doing some "tweeking" to keep it working).

Eh. After about 5yrs(or whenever the PS2 came out) I'd expect any mechanical device to need some sort of tweaking to keep it working especially through the daily 3-4hrs of abuse I put it through. I've only had to tweak it once, and only recently, so that's a pretty damn good track record as far as I'm concerned.

[Duke Togo]

Oh, and for those of you who still have their original PS2s, believe me when I say that you're a minority (and even then, most of you admitted to doing some "tweeking" to keep it working).

My PC has about 2 grand in hardware in it, and I tweak it and clean it on a regular basis. Should I dump it in favor of an Xbox?

[Hurin]

I had to get three X-boxes before I got one that wouldn't freeze randomly.

My brother is on his third Playstation. And he doesn't play it all that much.

So, it's a tie.

Sometimes things break or arrive defective and no company is perfect. For every guy decrying Maxtor hard drives on one forum, there's a guy decrying Seagates on another. . . because both have had a bad experience or have "heard things." It's no different than consoles. Except that there are probably more Sony Playstation complaints because there are more Sony playstations in out there. That logic reminds me of my Mac users who claim superiority because they don't get viruses. Well, that's because (generally) there aren't enough Mac users to make writing a virus for them worthwhile!

I sold my X-box after about a year. Computer games still have the edge for all of the game types I enjoy.

H

Edited June 17, 2005 by Hurin

[Duke Togo]

Sometimes things break or arrive defective and no company is perfect. For every guy decrying Maxtor hard drives on one forum, there's a guy decrying Seagates on another. . .

I had two Maxtor drives (same model, same revision) go within a week of eachother this spring. I quickly went to Seagate.

[Gunbuster]

Even the guy behind the Resident Evil dissed Sony...can you blamed the guy

Capcom's Biohazard producer Mikami has made some strong criticisms toward Sony, Square and general customers in a recent radio program interview in Japan.

1. He mentioned that Sony makes their consoles easy to break to increase their installed base. He said the PS2 is selling so well because many people are buying a second one for replacement.

2. He said he has bought two sets of PlayStation and PlayStation 2 in the past, because the CD lens wore out quickly. When he played Super Robot Taisen on PS, it took one minute to load up each battle, he was so pissed off that he had to get a new PlayStation to play the game.

3. Other than PlayStation, he mentioned the current PC systems, walkman and Docomo cellphones are also easy to break, he said manufacturers purposely make the systems easier to break, so that customers would have to purchase a new one every one or two years. He said that how come no customers have complained about it? It's almost like cheating and committing a crime.... (the radio DJ interrupted the conversation and tried to switch to another topic.)

4. When asked "Do you think the customers are foolish?", he replied "Yes". He expressed that Square's Kingdom Hearts is selling so well because of "Aura Purchase", i.e. people buy this game because his/her friends are playing the same game, or really liked the game; despite whether he/she likes the game or not. He said that Kingdom Hearts does not deserve the 780,000+ unit sales, it doesn't worth the 6800 yen price tag.

5. At last he said "Square please forgive me", because he was so upset that Kingdom Hearts has sold a whole lot more than Biohazard on GameCube (both games released at around the same time), he thinks Biohazard is a much better quality game, although Kingdom Hearts is not a bad game either.

[JB0]

Sometimes things break or arrive defective and no company is perfect.  For every guy decrying Maxtor hard drives on one forum, there's a guy decrying Seagates on another. . .

I had two Maxtor drives (same model, same revision) go within a week of eachother this spring. I quickly went to Seagate.

I had my original 1 gig Maxtor from my first IBM clone die a month or 2 ago.

Made it almost a decade.

And no, it was not still my primary drive. Wasn't even in my primary machine.

Edited June 17, 2005 by JB0

[mikeszekely]

Oh, and for those of you who still have their original PS2s, believe me when I say that you're a minority (and even then, most of you admitted to doing some "tweeking" to keep it working).

My PC has about 2 grand in hardware in it, and I tweak it and clean it on a regular basis. Should I dump it in favor of an Xbox?

There's a difference between upgrading your drivers and recalibrating your optical drive. And if you need to do that, may I suggest you stop buying generic optical drives?

After about 5yrs(or whenever the PS2 came out) I'd expect any mechanical device to need some sort of tweaking to keep it working especially through the daily 3-4hrs of abuse I put it through.

I've owned the same CD player since I was in Jr. High, the same DVD player since maybe a year after the PS2 came out. I've had my Xbox since it came out, and I've had my Gamecube since it came out. The CD player in my car has been there for three years. Aside from my PS2 going bad, I'm yet to have to recalibrate any of them.

[Valkyrie23]

Possible leaked pic of the Nintendo Revolution controller....kind of funky. Is the whole controller touch sensitive? Yet, there are possibly those two rings of lights at the ends - - perhaps it reads your mind through your thumbs, lol....

Maybe not real, but really odd

BTW, can anyone read that language on the bottom of the pic?

Edited June 17, 2005 by Valkyrie23

[Ladic]

Genesis Outsold SNES atleast in the states

No, it didn't. SNES outsold it 31.67 million in the US to Genesis' 27.17 million.

Do any of you bother to check yoru facts?

Interesting tidbit, the Genesis only sold 3.58 million units in Japan.

yes it did

[JB0]

After about 5yrs(or whenever the PS2 came out) I'd expect any mechanical device to need some sort of tweaking to keep it working especially through the daily 3-4hrs of abuse I put it through.

I've owned the same CD player since I was in Jr. High, the same DVD player since maybe a year after the PS2 came out. I've had my Xbox since it came out, and I've had my Gamecube since it came out. The CD player in my car has been there for three years. Aside from my PS2 going bad, I'm yet to have to recalibrate any of them.

I feel obliged to add my SegaCD2 to the list.

Baby's still ticking along as well as when she rolled off the assembly line.

My original pre-PS2 DVD player from 1998 was scrapped a few weeks ago, but not due to drive mech problems.

[Duke Togo]

There's a difference between upgrading your drivers and recalibrating your optical drive. And if you need to do that, may I suggest you stop buying generic optical drives?

Um, I have a Lite-on and a Sony, and I will soon be purchasing a Plextor Dual Layer DVD burner. There isn't anything generic about my PC.

[JB0]

Genesis Outsold SNES atleast in the states

No, it didn't. SNES outsold it 31.67 million in the US to Genesis' 27.17 million.

Do any of you bother to check yoru facts?

Interesting tidbit, the Genesis only sold 3.58 million units in Japan.

yes it did

I suspect his numbers are grand totals, but only for Sega-produced hardware.

Remember, the SNES had 2 years as the bargin-bin deck of choice after Sega killed the Genny for the Saturn.

Roughly analagous to sending your team back onto the field to score some more goals after the game's over and everyone went home. It let the SNES reclaim the lead, but in a totally irrelevant manner.

And if I'm right, Majesco's Genesis3 and JVC's X'Eye wouldn't factor into the totals, being non-Sega hardware.

Heck, if the numbers are intentionally biased, they may even exclude the Sega-produced Nomad and CDX.

Edited June 17, 2005 by JB0

[Duke Togo]

You're right, its a conspiracy against Sega and MS. The truth is, every product released by Nintendo and Sony were included in the numbers. In truth, only about 4 people in the US owned a SNES, and the PS2 was never actually released.

[Duke Togo]

Remember, the SNES had 2 years as the bargin-bin deck of choice after Sega killed the Genny for the Saturn.

Actually, if I recall correctly, they didn't go Genesis to Saturn. They went Genesis - Sega CD - Sega 32X. I think it was at this point that Sega basically became the laughign stock of the gaming industry, and it was the beginning of the end. While the SNES was still enjoying strong sales, Sega wasn't selling anything (though they were trying to).

[Black Valkyrie]

All this NR vs. Xbox360 vs. PS3 and they not even out hmm........, then better check this out guys since its related to the video games

My beautiful Kasumi is ruined

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/dea...ws_6127700.html