The MW Automotive Thread

[peter]

I'm not saying I'm into drifting because of the flashy rims and aero,  just that that's what makes it appeal to a lot of people.

The thing about stock classes in AutoX is that they are VERY competitive. Because you can't use better tuning to help, you have to be an incredible driver. Additionally, as I said, few of the drift types are anywhere near stock. I've got adjustible control arms, toe arms, traction rods, tension rods, coilovers, strut bars, and aftermarket differential and clutch, and so on, but no motor mods. If I wanted to compete with this car, I'd have to put a large amount of money into motor.

And, when it came down to it, I'd still be driving around cones in a parking lot. Sorry to say it, but after being at the real track, AutoX bores me. It's not much of a track foundation, either. Among road racing circles, Autocrossers are the butt of every joke. And you can tell the autocrossers at a track event because they're the guys taking the narrow line and afraid to get close to other cars or exceed 60MPH.

a) I signed up on this forum to be a crusader of truth and justice to car prejudice everywhere

b) WTF is macross

That being said, Yellowlightman is right on except I think the joke is that drifting, because of its subjective nature, is 'the FIGURE SKATING' of motorsports. And I figure its probably closer to the 'Barney on Ice' end of ice skating. In the Olympic stuff, at least people get emotional and stuff. Anyways--

I would like to preface this with saying I have no problem with organized drifting. I think D1 is an excellent addition to the motorsports scene since anything that helps motorsports grow is probably a positive thing, and tail-out driving is a whole lot of fun. If I was to go on and say "drifting sucks, you suck," I'd be no better then all the pencil-dick mouth breathers that make fun of 'parking lot racing.'

What is it that bores you about autocross? Is it the fact that autocrossers are forced to deal with turns at a density SEVEN TIMES GREATER then formula one racers? Or maybe the fact that its timed, and therefor it exposes your inadaquacies as a driver? Either one works for me.

I've driven on 'real tracks' too. Sears Point, actually--one of the most technical (club racer's words, not mine) in the United States. I had about two years (bout 45 events ) of autocross experience under my belt before I hit that gorgeous slithering pavement and it took me about 6.4 seconds to exceed this mythical 60mph barrier you speak of. I went on to hit 110mph in the 'esses,' and passed all cars in the beginner groups and all cars in the intermediate groups. One was a Porsche Turbo. Does that prove anything? Nope. Do I enjoy saying I passed a Porsche Turbo in a stock-motored Street-Touring X prepared '95 325is? Oh hell yeah! Not only did I pass the Porsche Turbo, I PASSED MY G'DDAM INSTRUCTOR on our last session out. She was in a Miata. Did it give me a big head? Nope. She was having allignment issues, and I know deep down she is a far superior driver then myself. In fact, shes driven ITS FC's for a couple years, done a few endurance races (ITB Mk2 GTi in the 25 hour Thunderhill is her most recent long-hour race), and currently has entered a sponsorship to drive a Grand-Am BMW Z3 Coupe. Serious stuff. And you know what she has said about autocrossers?

All my students [she is a well respected driving instructor in the area, with many many students under her instruction popping their track cherry] that are autocrossers are nearly always extremely smooth and have excellent car control.  Good confidence levels, too.

I got my 'drift' on that track day, as well. The first few sessions were on a soaking wet track. Water plus tire build up equals an extremely slippery surface, and more then once I found my car 20-40 degrees sideways, giving more then one full turn of opposite lock to having to catch it. Where did I learn the car-control skills to allow me to keep the car going in the direction I wanted to? You guessed it, autocross.

So... I don't know which Initial-D-thumping friends you are talking to when you guys make jokes about autocrossers being the grannies of the track world, because its a stereotype I have *never* heard before.

Anyways, just think about what you are writing and who might be reading it. I doubt you are as ignorant as you sound, and you just figured nobody would call you on it. I come from the San Francisco Region of the SCCA, a region notorious for creating more national champions then *any region in the United States.* We take this very serious, and the thought of some drifting punk thinking he is better then me because he is good at losing control of his car makes my blood boil.

Well said. There are too many people here that hate. They hate what other people do, they hate what other people have, some hate imports, and some hate American cars. I have no idea what their so pissed off about. Who gives a $hit what other people have or like. There's no reason to trash it. This particular thread is about cars, and all the bad things we can do with them.

I have no idea why some people get all bent out of shape if someone likes to drift, or if others like to put Bling-Blings on their cars. So much hostility. This thread started of really great, but it's turning into "The things you like suck, and here's why....." It's kind of sad that people post something, and then they're instantly on trial and have to defend what kind of car they like, or what particular motorsports they prefer.

Drifting isn't for me, but for the dude that likes drifting, if it makes you happy, power to you man. At least there's something out there for you that you like. I want to try it myself one of these days, but I imagine MR and FF cars are hard to drift so I'll put it off for another day.

Autocross is wicked fun. I've done it, I liked it. I gotta try it with my latest project. What do you guys think about the equipment: first gen 1978 Honda Civic hatchback (weighs in at about 1400lbs), 1600cc single-cam VTEC engine with all the bells and whistles (puts the hp at about 135 or so....that's a lot more than the stock 57 hp), double the braking power, coil-over suspension, and half-decent tires. In daily-driving mode, all the mods have increased the fun factor by quite a bit.

But when what it boils down to for me personally isn't the competition at all. It's how much fun I can have in my own car, and that's all that matters......just me and my machine (as long as I'm not running others off the road). When I'm cutting through the chicanes (SP?), looking for the perfect apex, tires licking the candy canes, diving into the turns with my brakes glowing, then ripping down the long straight at Mission Raceway and top out at 200km/hr, I get high and I'm in my own little world.

Edited March 15, 2005 by peter

[yellowlightman]

And, yellowlightman, I didn't meant to really insult AutoXers, just say that it doesn't do it for me. I'm just doing the same thing all the road racers do, poking fun at the AutoXers. It's sort of an unwritten rule that we have to do that.

Dude, get over yourself. Just because you've done a few track days and drift events does not make you a "road racer," ditch the ego. Are you even reading what you're typing? I don't understand if you're trying to brag, or just being completely naive.

Autocross is wicked fun. I've done it, I liked it. I gotta try it with my latest project. What do you guys think about the equipment: first gen 1978 Honda Civic hatchback (weighs in at about 1400lbs), 1600cc single-cam VTEC engine with all the bells and whistles (puts the hp at about 135 or so....that's a lot more than the stock 57 hp), double the braking power, coil-over suspension, and half-decent tires. In daily-driving mode, all the mods have increased the fun factor by quite a bit.

Dude, that car sounds awesome. You have any pictures?

My parents brought me hoem from the hospital in an 82 Civic Hatch so I've always had an affinity for the older ones, and always thought it'd be cool to put a decent motor in one.

[GENERIC RAGE]

And, yellowlightman, I didn't meant to really insult AutoXers, just say that it doesn't do it for me. I'm just doing the same thing all the road racers do, poking fun at the AutoXers. It's sort of an unwritten rule that we have to do that.

WHO ARE THESE 'ROAD RACERS' THAT ENJOY MAKING FUN OF AUTOCROSS? You are driving at either a *track day* or *drift day*... do you see RACING in either of those? In fact, if you did, you'd be putting yourself in major financial risk since insurance doesn't cover 'timed events.' I'm the only one here who claims to actually *know* a road racer, (Yellowlightman knows her as well. He might have even made out with her, I don't know, he makes out with lots of chicks), and they simply don't make fun of autocrossers.

In fact, the stereotype I hear most road racers laughing about is the stereotype of the DE driver or drift day driver calling himself a *racecar driver* (substitute 'road racer' for a more JDM flare) when he goes out on track twice a year in his street car.

I can't believe you still think you have something to your argument, you are making less and less sense the deeper you go.

Its important to get a car out on track, that is for certain--but for the love of God don't use it as a bolster for your dwindling self-esteem. Autocrossers are out there because they love it, not so they can go home, get on IRC and start a room called "all roadracers check in!" and brag about all their sweet 'battles.' We do it because its the cheapest form of *competitive* motorsports this side of drag racing, and to polish and hone their skills against other drivers.

This thread is like a punching bag for me. I'm a nice guy on all the other forums I'm part of. Its rare I get to confront such blatant ignorance.

[GENERIC RAGE]

Autocross is wicked fun. I've done it, I liked it. I gotta try it with my latest project. What do you guys think about the equipment: first gen 1978 Honda Civic hatchback (weighs in at about 1400lbs), 1600cc single-cam VTEC engine with all the bells and whistles (puts the hp at about 135 or so....that's a lot more than the stock 57 hp), double the braking power, coil-over suspension, and half-decent tires. In daily-driving mode, all the mods have increased the fun factor by quite a bit.

That car indeed sounds fantastic. I recently inherited an '86 CRX Si, and am going to sell it soon. Great little cars, the older hatchbacks.

New Honda's are great too--just a bit more grown up. Those old sub-2000lbs cars are a hoot, though.

[peter]

And, yellowlightman, I didn't meant to really insult AutoXers, just say that it doesn't do it for me. I'm just doing the same thing all the road racers do, poking fun at the AutoXers. It's sort of an unwritten rule that we have to do that.

Dude, get over yourself. Just because you've done a few track days and drift events does not make you a "road racer," ditch the ego. Are you even reading what you're typing? I don't understand if you're trying to brag, or just being completely naive.

Autocross is wicked fun. I've done it, I liked it. I gotta try it with my latest project. What do you guys think about the equipment: first gen 1978 Honda Civic hatchback (weighs in at about 1400lbs), 1600cc single-cam VTEC engine with all the bells and whistles (puts the hp at about 135 or so....that's a lot more than the stock 57 hp), double the braking power, coil-over suspension, and half-decent tires. In daily-driving mode, all the mods have increased the fun factor by quite a bit.

Dude, that car sounds awesome. You have any pictures?

My parents brought me hoem from the hospital in an 82 Civic Hatch so I've always had an affinity for the older ones, and always thought it'd be cool to put a decent motor in one.

Yeah, I posted some pictures here a while ago, but I couldn't find them with the search function, so here they are again.

[peter]

engine

[peter]

shiny paint is a beautiful thing.

[peter]

Never get tired of waxing her.

[peter]

It's not really an RS, but it's way faster!

[peter]

I had to get HIDs for it....such a jackass thing to do:

More pics here:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40613

[yellowlightman]

That car is all sorts of hot, love the Panasports.

Guessing this was a pretty cheap project?

[peter]

Geez, don't you people ever sleep? Haha, it's almost 3am where I am...what the hell am I doing up still......

All prices quoted in Canadian dollars.

The car itself cost $600. For everything else, there's credit card:

Brake job was $1500 (new rotors, front and rear calipers from '95 Civic Si, custom SS brake lines, bolt spacing conversion, new axels), motor and tranny $1200 (1600 cc single-cam VTEC from Acura EL.....think only avail in Canada), intake + filter $50, ECU that came with some sort of chip $200, Mugen headers - free, 2.5 in exhaust $100, fuel pump $100, new clutch and flywheel $500, underdrive pulley $200, M.I.T (made in Taiwan) muffler $100, vinyl dye $30 (interior was a hideous blue before), Integra seats $150, HIDs $400, new carpet $100, Panosport wheels $300, new tires $500, paint $2500, and finally the labour (including custom welding) to do all of the above $1500.

It wasn't supposed to be like this actually. Originally, I just wanted a winter beater, but the brakes went so I had to get them done, but ended up doing way more than necessary at the time. Then, I really *ucked up the tranny. Here's the short version of the story.....even though the car was a 2 spead auto, I liked to play around with the heel-toe, throw it into neutral, blip the gas and dump it into D1 when diving into a turn or corner. Well, I wasn't very good at the whole

Automatic transmission thing, so I threw it into reverse once at 60 km/hr. You think I learned my lesson? No, it happened a second time about a month later. The car bled tranny fluid all over the road as it sat motionless. Got myself a new motor and a real 5 speed tranny and in it went.....but I figured while the motor's out, might as well paint it.

I was going to paint the car myself as well, with just a couple of cans of spray paint, but it was too much work so I said screw it and one thing led to another and I found myself burning up money left-right and center.

Note to all of you with obsessive-compulsive nature.....NEVER BUY A BEATER or your wallet will regret it. You'll end up tinkering around with it and the next thing you know, you're lining up for welfare checks.

Edited March 15, 2005 by peter

[reddsun1]

The heart of drift is to look cool, it's not about performance or speed or logic.

What's a Superoo?

I suppose that's where I differ with the mindset of the drifting crowd. To me, coolness extends from performance and speed--it's a natural consequence, if you will. I guess that's why so many people love Porsche 917s, P-51 Mustangs, jet fighters and such--they're cool and beautiful because of what they can do, and how well they're designed to do it is what lends them their beauty, not because they're flashy and bright; function over formality, I say...

What's a Superoo?

[reddsun1]

the painter I got to do this job turned out to be a jack-leg, so she's a 10-footer; looks great from 10' or more, but get closer and she shows some of her flaws. Draws lots of attention though...

[reddsun1]

Other than the actual engine assy. and painting, I can say that I stripped this car down and put it all back together myself. It won't win any show trophies, but everything in that engine bay I put in there myself, so I'm a little proud of that...

Now, the engine/drivetrain is pretty much the same as most domestic Fords (Torino/Mustang/Cougar), so I can get the large majority of what I might need from any "AutoZone" etc. But obviously NONE of the sheet metal is common to any US car (put it next to a 70 'Cuda, and you'd swear the fenders interchange, though; but then again, most cars from the 70's shared a lot of design cues). It's a muscle car, i.e. front engine, mid-size platform with V8 making good power ('bout 300, good for its day), with live-axle RWD. But I had to import this car to get it, they were never sold in N. America--we guesstimate there's only about 100 or so in the US/Canada. Since I've had it, I've put some bits/parts on it to make it go/whoa better, and plan lots more goodies in the future. So, does that make me an "import tuner"? So, if I went to a car show, which end would I park at? Over with the gearheads in the muscle car section? Or with the Hondas etc. in the import section? If I gave a s--t about that sort of thing, I guess I'd have a bit of an identitity crisis at the car show...

P.S. That honda looks sweet...with that power/weight ratio, it ought to be a blast--keeping the Mini Cooper drivers sweating and checking their mirrors...

[reddsun1]

Sorry yellowlightman, I went the long way around and still didn't exactly answer your question. The Superoo logo was used by Ford Australia on their Falcon high perf. models during the late 60s-early 70s, much like the "Superbee" or "Road Runner" or "GTO Judge" on cars here in the US.

When I remember how to post multiple img's I'll stop wasting posts, I promise...

http://www.madmaxcars.com/cars_obtainable/...l?obtain-ford-9

Edited March 15, 2005 by reddsun1

[Panzer]

I had to get HIDs for it....such a jackass thing to do:

More pics here:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40613

dang dude.. that car doesn't look half bad.

I got the idea for putting xenon in an old '80s car last week myself when my buddy was talking about buying a CRX Si.. I though it'd be hilarious.

people wouldn't know what the hell it was at night..

soo... you have an NSX too? dang

Edited March 15, 2005 by Panzer

[peter]

It's a muscle car, i.e. front engine, mid-size platform with V8 making good power ('bout 300, good for its day), with live-axle RWD. But I had to import this car to get it, they were never sold in N. America--we guesstimate there's only about 100 or so in the US/Canada. Since I've had it, I've put some bits/parts on it to make it go/whoa better, and plan lots more goodies in the future. So, does that make me an "import tuner"? So, if I went to a car show, which end would I park at? Over with the gearheads in the muscle car section? Or with the Hondas etc. in the import section? If I gave a s--t about that sort of thing, I guess I'd have a bit of an identitity crisis at the car show...

P.S. That honda looks sweet...with that power/weight ratio, it ought to be a blast--keeping the Mini Cooper drivers sweating and checking their mirrors...

Here in Canada, technically, every car is an import since we don't acutally make any cars....well, that's not true, we do manufature some Hondas and Chryslers out east....does that mean the Civic is considered a Domestic? Haha....confusing.

Your paint looks nice and shiny from the pictures, is it really bad up close?

[reddsun1]

It's a muscle car, i.e. front engine, mid-size platform with V8 making good power ('bout 300, good for its day), with live-axle RWD.  But I had to import this car to get it, they were never sold in N. America--we guesstimate there's only about 100 or so in the US/Canada.  Since I've had it, I've put some bits/parts on it to make it go/whoa better, and plan lots more goodies in the future.  So, does that make me an "import tuner"?  So, if I went to a car show, which end would I park at?  Over with the gearheads in the muscle car section?  Or with the Hondas etc. in the import section?  If I gave a s--t about that sort of thing, I guess I'd have a bit of an identitity crisis at the car show... 

P.S.  That honda looks sweet...with that power/weight ratio, it ought to be a blast--keeping the Mini Cooper drivers sweating and checking their mirrors... 

Here in Canada, technically, every car is an import since we don't acutally make any cars....well, that's not true, we do manufature some Hondas and Chryslers out east....does that mean the Civic is considered a Domestic? Haha....confusing.

Your paint looks nice and shiny from the pictures, is it really bad up close?

nah, it's not too bad; a run or two in the paint in one place, little orange peel on a front fender. Not something that jumps out at you, but I know it's there, and that's what irks the heck out of me. I chalk it up as a lesson learned, and hope I'll be more shrewd/wise the next time around. "F--k me once, shame on you; f--k me twice..." well, I say: there won't be a twice, bub. Oh well, when it gets torn down for a rebuild again, it'll be done properly, i.e. to the bare shell.

[reddsun1]

very informative Instructor video from Lime Rock Park, CT

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/rollover.mpg

[areaseven]

Speaking of rollovers, has anyone seen the current SUV campaign?

ESUVEE

"Everyone can ride an Esuvee. Not everyone rides 'em right."

[CoryHolmes]

Speaking of rollovers, has anyone seen the current SUV campaign?

ESUVEE

"Everyone can ride an Esuvee. Not everyone rides 'em right."

I've said it before, and I'm gonna say it again:

Whomever came up with this idea is a sheer genius.

[Lightning]

I'm missing that bowing emoticon from the Dodge Charger forums for the Superoo and that Civic (and this is coming from a guy who rips over-done ricer-ed out cars). Have any problems with getting that VTEC Engine in that old Civic?

EDIT: It's really stupid, but I'm falling in love with dual-purpose cars. Hence, I'm going for AutoX-ing and Drifting with my LeBaron, later this year I plan to put a 4-speed in it, or I might try to pirate a 5-speed out of a Mustang or Camaro....

Edited March 16, 2005 by Lightning 06

[Commander McBride]

Sorry to bring this back up, but I do actually hang out with real road racers. I've spent a lot of time talking to professionals, as I'm highly interested in getting into the sport, and every time I bring up trying to drive AutoX to develop my skills or develop a driving "resume", they laugh in my face. Additionally, the shop that supplies much of my racing gear is run and caters to road racers, and many times I've heard them look down on autocross. In the manager's own words, "autocross isn't racing". Of course, the Autocrossers say the same things about road racers, that we're too slow to handle a lot of corners, no reaction times, that we don't have the skill to run for times, etc. It's just the running thing in racing, down here.

[yellowlightman]

Sorry to bring this back up, but I do actually hang out with real road racers. I've spent a lot of time talking to professionals, as I'm highly interested in getting into the sport, and every time I bring up trying to drive AutoX to develop my skills or develop a driving "resume", they laugh in my face. Additionally, the shop that supplies much of my racing gear is run and caters to road racers, and many times I've heard them look down on autocross. In the manager's own words, "autocross isn't racing".

My advice is to stop hanging out idiots. If they're laughing at the notion of autocross being a worthless addition to your driving resume, they're pretty clueless and probably just as inexperienced as you.

Of course, the Autocrossers say the same things about road racers, that we're too slow to handle a lot of corners, no reaction times, that we don't have the skill to run for times, etc. It's just the running thing in racing, down here.

No, now you're simply making up things up.

[Commander McBride]

No, now you're simply making up things up.

Hey, I've heard it from the local SCCA types. Hear it alot online, too. Nobody's really serious. It's like Nissan and Mazda owners. We talk down on each other's cars all the time, but we all know it's just kidding around.

[yellowlightman]

No, now you're simply making up things up.

Hey, I've heard it from the local SCCA types. Hear it alot online, too. Nobody's really serious. It's like Nissan and Mazda owners. We talk down on each other's cars all the time, but we all know it's just kidding around.

How exactly have you heard it from local SCCA autocrossers if you're too big headed to go to autocross events?

Seriously man, you're back-pedaling and just making up nonsense at this point. Drop the attitude that you're hot poo with your InitialD/JDM slang and stop trying to impress people online by calling yourself a 'road racer' when you're obviously not. Your nonsense and lies are infuriating.

I jumped on you first because you were representing and spreading false ideas about autocross and since then you've done nothing but prove you know even less than I thought you did.

[Commander McBride]

No, now you're simply making up things up.

Hey, I've heard it from the local SCCA types. Hear it alot online, too. Nobody's really serious. It's like Nissan and Mazda owners. We talk down on each other's cars all the time, but we all know it's just kidding around.

How exactly have you heard it from local SCCA autocrossers if you're too big headed to go to autocross events?

Seriously man, you're back-pedaling and just making up nonsense at this point. Drop the attitude that you're hot poo with your InitialD/JDM slang and stop trying to impress people online by calling yourself a 'road racer' when you're obviously not. Your nonsense and lies are infuriating.

I jumped on you first because you were representing and spreading false ideas about autocross and since then you've done nothing but prove you know even less than I thought you did.

I never said I didn't go to autocross events. I said that I don't have as much fun in any kind of lot event as I do at a true track event. Same goes for drifting, I don't go to Drift Day because I don't like lot driving.

And I encounter autocrossers other places, too. When I'm down at the shop, it's commone for regular customers who are autoxers to come in, and it's a running thing with the road race guys. There's also a little thing called the internet.

And I never once said I was a road racer, just that I hang around with some.

By the way, InitialD/JDM is the last thing I go for. I'm long retired from the canyons. I got out before I got myself killed. I saw three cars off the cliff in one night, that was pretty much the end of it.

Edited March 16, 2005 by Commander McBride

[peter]

I'm missing that bowing emoticon from the Dodge Charger forums for the Superoo and that Civic (and this is coming from a guy who rips over-done ricer-ed out cars). Have any problems with getting that VTEC Engine in that old Civic?

EDIT: It's really stupid, but I'm falling in love with dual-purpose cars. Hence, I'm going for AutoX-ing and Drifting with my LeBaron, later this year I plan to put a 4-speed in it, or I might try to pirate a 5-speed out of a Mustang or Camaro....

To tell you the truth, I really can't appreciate the difficulty in shoe-horning that engine into my car.

According to my friend that built the car for me, he went through hell. A lot of cutting, reinforcing, and improvising with various parts such as using a VW radiator, swapping the chunk of factory pulley for a smaller aftermarket one, and even as far as getting a US-spec front grill. Apparently even the factory exhaust manifold was too large so he had to go with a set of headers he had lying around.

As far as rice is concerned, well, I tried my very best to keep the car looking like a stock '76 hatchback. The car is actually a '78 but I got the older '76 hood, grill, and tail lights. The only thing that's not factory visually is the wheels, steering wheel, and muffler. The RS emblems are kind of ricey since the RS model never came to North America, but I bet my car's faster and better handling than any RS produced by Honda. I even had the car painted an original factory color instead of going with something else.

Almost made a huge mistake by painting it championship white like the type-Rs. Now that I think about it, I almost did the riciest thing possible......a '76 type-R.....oh the horror. I had a set of red Recaros line up and even a custom CF hood, but thank God I came to my senses.

[yellowlightman]

I never said I didn't go to autocross events. I said that I don't have as much fun in any kind of lot event as I do at a true track event. Same goes for drifting, I don't go to Drift Day because I don't like lot driving.

Your opinion is your opinion, but I'm glad to see that you gave up trying to argue that drifting was the cheapest type of motorsports to get into short of drag racing (just a quick refresher, the cheapest is indeed autocross). Not to mention giving up on the notion that autocross is somehow inferior or not as worthwhile as your "road racing," of which you actually have yet to participate in.

By the way, InitialD/JDM is the last thing I go for. I'm long retired from the canyons. I got out before I got myself killed. I saw three cars off the cliff in one night, that was pretty much the end of it.

I didn't mean the canyons, I meant your constant use of Initial D-isms like "battle" and ridiculous JDM words like "aero."

[Lightning]

look at what I found, lol

that's my daily driver, just it's blue. Weird start for a race car, hunh?

EDIT: it doesnt have those gaudy wire hubcaps, btw.

Edited March 16, 2005 by Lightning 06

[reddsun1]

look at what I found, lol

that's my daily driver, just it's blue.  Weird start for a race car, hunh?

EDIT: it doesnt have those gaudy wire hubcaps, btw.

Ain't a thing wrong with that. I envy you; at least you got a car to start with. Hell, it could potentially make for a heckuva sleeper on the track.

I suppose there'll be no end to the "controversy" and ribbing of certain groups of racers by other groups. Heck, the "real" road racers can even get segmented amongst themselves. The guys I used to work with--all formula drivers--used to give me a hard time because of my stated intent to eventually race a tin top. Many a time I'd get comments like "why'd you want to race in one of those PIGS," etc. In retrospect, I can almost understand their bias. When I went to Skippy School to get my competition license, I did so in a Formula Dodge. And I'll concede to the open wheel set that it's arguably a much more raw and visceral sensation of the driving experience. It's why if you go to any given historic/vintage event, you'll see so many 50-something guys literally stuffing themselves down into a tiny Formula Ford/Continental/Vee/One/whatever a dozen times or so over the course of a w'end. That, plus the independently wealthy (i.e. usually middle age) set are usually the only ones who can afford the fuggin' things! These guys want to experience racing in its purest form, and that's about the best way I can think of to get it.

Is autocrossing lesser than other forms of racing? I'd say heck no! IIRC, didn't Boris Said and Randy Pobst (among others) get their start in autocrossing before making it to the "big time" of pro racing? And those guys are damned good; among the "Parnelli Jones" and "Mark Donohues" of this generation. A friend/fmr coworker of mine, about 15 yrs my senior, got his start in autocrossing before getting his own Formula Ford. He said his autocrossing definitely gave him a leg up, teaching him speed in processing information and smoothness of touch. I've considered auto-Xing with my car, but chickened out--reasoning that if I do it, it will be with a car dedicated to that purpose; if for no other reason than the very nature of competitive driving (auto-X, drifting, whatever) just beats the ever-loving s--t out of a car. I wouldn't think of doing it in a car I want to drive regularly on public roads. That, plus, w/the 'Roo weighing in at a healthy 3400lbs, I'm sure I'd get my arse handed to me by guys in CRXs, Miatas and the like...

[yellowlightman]

I've considered auto-Xing with my car, but chickened out--reasoning that if I do it, it will be with a car dedicated to that purpose; if for no other reason than the very nature of competitive driving (auto-X, drifting, whatever) just beats the ever-loving s--t out of a car. I wouldn't think of doing it in a car I want to drive regularly on public roads.

Myself and I lot of people I race with autocross their daily drivers, and it's actually pretty common. Usually the autocross cars that get trailered in are the ones that are in a class like Street Mod, and are no longer street legal.

Lightning06, why'd you pick the LeBaron as a base for a race car? I don't mean that in a negative way, just curious.

[Commander McBride]

Actually, in all truthfulness, I'm planning to go do a bit of AutoX when I get my new car. Don't worry, the 240 isn't going anywhere, but that's the problem! I'm getting myself a daily driver, a Mazda 3s 5-door, and I'm thinking taking it to a few events would actually be fun. I think the real reason I lost interest in Autocross is that, as my car became more and more heavily modified, it got to the point where it couldn't handle properly the rough pavement or narrow courses too often seen in lot autocross. I should be starting soon at Galpin Mazda, so I'll be able to afford my 3 in a few months.

[Jawjaw]

I came across this and found it amazing. Dude in his STI got rear ended by an 18 wheeler and shoved under another truck. There is hardly anything left of the car but the guy came out without any injuries.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...bayphotohosting