dreamweaver13

it's also said that people end up marrying their fathers or their mothers... and if it does happen, it doesn't mean that they love their partners any less.

well Freud does have a tendency to generalize... who am i kidding? freud's claim to fame is that ALL his theories apply to everyone subconsciously. so yeah, according to freud, every male child. subconsciously. hehe.

But Mao went for Shin, so you shouldn't dismiss that aspect at all. unless you want to say that it's not even a triangle in the first place? I mean, what if only sara nome disappeared at the end of ep 5, leaving shin alive on earth. is it too much of a stretch that mao and shin could end up together after all? Sure, there are hints and signs pointing towards a specific character, but i wouldn't go as far as saying that the triangle was resolved as early as the start. because if you do, i could easily say that the SDFM triangle was resolved as early as Micro Cosmos, or that Frontier was already resolved by the time Star Date came along (or for that matter, M7 was resolved the very first episode, because it's obvious a jerk like basara would never be interested. hehe). all i'm saying is that the love story angle is a major and essential part of a macross story, and not merely a sidestory. thus, the love story is conclusively resolved at about the same time the main plot does.

whew! ok, finally backread this thread. just some thoughts. you also mentioned a similarity with the DYRL scene in Hikaru's room (which i also felt). the resolution in ep22 is not yet complete (and some would even say it was merely out of pity). would have been complete if sheryl pushed her away because she doesn't want his pity, with alto persisting, and giving that "stay by my side" spiel. but, hey, i'm not complaining. that ep22 scene was awesome and perfect. i think you're right, the final resolution of the triangle might be a reiteration of alto's promise to stay by sheryl's side until the end. now as to when that end will come... that right there's the mystery. the thing is... alto was simply left behind because he didn't check his message fast enough!! haha. seriously, i think he made a choice to stay. he would have been the ultimate as$ if he decided to go with SMS, right after promising sheryl that he'd stay with her. and to go after ranka, no less. ouch. on the other hand, his decision to stay with NUNS also conflics with his earlier resolve (whoch he communicated with Luca) to bring back Ranka before Nanase woke up. but of course, that was before he had his "moment" with Sheryl. All in all, i think he made the right decision to stay. after all, if not for that decision, we would not have seen the Alto-Ozma dogfight!! cool! yup. alto can't leave sheryl behind. klan is too angry to attempt any rescue of a known vajra ally (ranka), and luca's to connected with Leon and LAI to leave. Although, i suddenly remember Michael's paqrting words to Luca (you're part of a team, you don't have to go out on your own."). I wouldn't be surprised if that came up again later, and would be the rallying cry for the original SMS crew to unite. well, leon does need to send out the best pilots, and alto and luca are it. Also, he might be theorizing that the former SMS would hesitate a bit more to attack alto and luca, their former comrades. I'm a big sheryl fan, but just look at the way grace does it. no match. the master taught sheryl well, but not well enough.

yup it was posted in the internet "today" (2008-09-05), but when was it posted by Sheryl in the macross timeline?

first of all, as recent discoveries seem to indicate, the megaroad didn't really get lost near galactic center. it was a mere "what if" scenario in a game, IIRC. for all intents and purposes, the megaroad 1 has either found a planet, retired or still searching for new worlds. explains why the jenius and ichijo couples get together to compare notes every now and then. and to share your sentiments, yeah i guess fandom is left with a choice: a kawamori-macross story without the original SDFM crew, or a new story about the original SDFM crew but without kawamori. i'd go with the first, if only because i'm quite frightened what could happen to a macross story without any input or control from SK.

I think it's Sheryl, and the set-up all points toward sheryl. and i also think they kissed in ep 22. on the other hand, if that's the resolution to the triangle, i think it came a bit too early. Although we can never agree on a formula for macross love triangles, i think we can agree on one thing: macross love triangles are only resolved at the very last minute/episode (if they are ever resolved at all). so couple this with SK's statement that the resolution of frontier's triangle will surprise people, i'm starting to ghet worried. i'm not saying it will be Ranka. i think that ship has sailed, and it's unreal for me for alto to suddenly have serious feelings about ranka, overcome his vajra bias, and see her as something other than a little sister in a span of 4 eps. (also consider the fact that ranka has already confessed to alto, and even with that he still goes to sheryl. if alto had the slightest intention of ever returning ranka's feelings, then i doubt he would have gotten closer to sheryl at that time). So to sum it up: i want it to be sheryl. i hope it's sheryl at the end. but it's also possible it won't be sheryl. but i think it WON'T be Ranka. so... sheryl or bust.

the zentraedi lineage must be true, otherwise she would haver suffered some damage after her space-exposure in ep2. on the other hand, if she's part vajra, that could also explain it. hehe. AgentONE, I'm not disscounting the vajra possibility just because of an inter-breeding impossibility. the science of genetics is a surprising thing in the macross universe. after all, didn't the protoculture fool around with the genetic makeup of earth's fish creatures (or whatever local life form) to create humans?

Cool link! very informative. (now i have a deeper understanding of how people take love pairings too seriously!) although i'm surprised the original SDFM triangle was not used as an example on that list (or was it? i didn't read after the macross frontier entry). Is it just a matter of the series being too old? if the internet was already in full bloom at the time, i think the original triangle would have its (more than) fair share of "Die for our 'ship" sentiments, either for Misa or Minmay.

Funny how she wants to keep her condition under wraps (specially to alto), but then she goes ahead and blogs about it.

i agree with the first paragraph. certainly minmay is the main girl in SDFM. And the same is true for Ranka (my clear preference for sheryl notwithstanding). But as with anything macross, we do know that the main girl doesn't necessarily get the guy at the end. though i disagree with the second paragraph. with all the set-up (i.e. star date, similarities as entertainers, cpnstant bickering, emotional connection, and klanklan's persistent matchmaking), it's quite a stretch for me to think that alto's merely giving sheryl some sympathy, as opposed to having true feelings for her. Although, i have to admit, alto's character certainly is the type who doesn't fall in love quite easily. a far cry from the original "lover boy" Hikaru.

with the dogfight in ep 22, anyone care to revisit their rankings/comparison between Alto and Ozma? In my OP list, i placed Ozma 2 spaces above Alto... but by now i think that they're neck and neck, with alto probably getting the upper hand by the end of the series.

But it's also possible she can't bear the thought of helping out Ranka. by now, she's the one with the greatest reason to hate the Vajra unconditionally. she must have decided to stay in the fleet, knowing that she would only get in the way of a peaceful resolution or a possible rescue of Ranka. Nevertheless, as a sign of respect and pride for the SMS, she showed up for a heartfelt salute to her former comrades.

This is the longest time i've spent without watching the latest episode. and MAN, was it worth the wait!! I just saw it, and man i all i can say is... SHERYL FTW!!! good job alto, good job!! obviously, i haven't had the time yet to backread this thread (and what a long thread it is already) so i have no idea what's been already said, but allow me just to say that this is one satisfying and fantastic episode, both on the dramatic and action levels. Such a sweet scene between alto and sheryl. and then cap it off with a dog fight that i didn't expect (and what a pleasant surprise it was!): alto vs. ozma!! to see the mighty SMS broken apart like that is a fantastic plot turn, and i'm hanging on with anxious excitement for the whopper of an ending that's sure to come. all the pieces are in places, the stage has been set. GO MACROSS FRONTIER!! EDIT: oh, and i'm not much of an expert on fashion, but IMHO, sheryl's black/blue outfit while singing northern cross is her best one yet.

he hasn't shown any indication of this (since he uses his cyborg-face all the time), but i did notice that he seems to be bothered (or confused or wondering) that Ranka sings her best when she's singing "to" alto (during her concert in episode 19). read into that what you will.

I think you're right on this point. Alto didn't give her any reason to think otherwise. it's not like Alto gave her Hikaru's "it's not what you think" spiel.

Yeah, that would be like killing off two major character/pilots in the span of 2 or 3 episodes! that would be unthinkable!.... .... uh oh.

Technically speaking, since Macross II is out of the timeline, Macross 2012 has more depth when it comes to canon information. (I said technically speaking. Not a comment on the quality or story of Macross II!

i just KNEW someone was going to ask about it eventually.

Yeah, i know. and this is the point where i give myself a proverbial pat on the head. I was a kid when i watched this, and i watched it after Transformers. yes, TF left me scarred and with the understanding (a reasonable and realistic one) that even the greatest hero can die. So by the time i watched GIJOE, Duke's death (while still shocking) already felt right. and when it was announced, rather nonchalantly, that Duke was "out of the coma", even my kid-brain let out a "WTF" and dismissed it as a crappy cop-out. even as a kid, i knew he was dead for real, and that declaring him alive was a mere after-thought (sigh. from an optimist to a cynic kid. such is the effect of Prime dying). I can't compare it to Roy or Kakizaki dying coz, important though they may be, they're not the main character in the series, as opposed to prime and duke. But if they had killed off hikaru, misa or minmay, i think my parents would have committed me to a mental institute right there and then.

YES!! still remember it. i think it was the first time i actually cried my eyes out over something i watched. i mean, that's Optimus f*&king Prime that died there. even the Ironhide and Ratchet violently going down (shocking enough as it is) was not enough to prepare me for that one. as far as cartoon deaths go, i think that movie takes the cake during its time. And then i followed it up with the GI JOE movie where Duke gets stabbed and dies (GASP! What'shappening to my cartoons?!).... only to find out that he was alive... (booo!!) Doc: yeah we won! we won! oh by the way Duke's awake from his coma. (jeez, i didn't even know he was in a coma) we won! we won!! Everyone: Yo Joe!! Man, that sucked. what a cop-out. i never looked at GI JOE the same way again after that. OK now back to topic: Yeah Kakizaki, what a lousy way to go....

What's more shocking is the horrendous way he was animated post-mortem. man, that ep's animation really sucked.

I'm betting that someone already has fanart of that somewhere, and that she can!! Thanks for the heads-up on the manga version, by the way.

can't remember, what was the color of sheryl's panty in ep 8 again? wasn't it pink? oh, and FIXED. hehehe. i KNOW that's what she meant to say.

As for sheryl, i don't think she knew about alto and ranka meeting up. all she knows is that ranka wants to give tickets personally to alto. how could she possibly know that she hasn't given those tickets yet, or that ranka made plans to meet up with alto. maybe sheryl was a bit clueless not to put 2 and 2 together, but i don't think there was any malice on her part when she asked alto to go with her. As for Minmay, well she thought that Hikaru had plans with just another friend (she even thought hikaru was seeing a guy, if the subs got it right). she didn't know it was a date. i put the blame squarely on Hikaru with this one. the least he could have said was "well.... i have a date." come to think of it... alto was also kind of at fault when he asked michael to stand in for him. arg. these macross boys have all the luck, and yet they act like total jerks. where's the justice in that??