VFTF1

ANSWER IS HERE: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=30573 BOMBER!!! Pete

So in short - each toy gets its' own thread? In a way...I would support this. It only SEEMS daunting, but it would be easy to search and easy to use... Or have I not understood again? Pete

Hm. Very interesting. I officially converted to Haruhism about three months ago, but I have to check these guys out. Maybe there's some way to combine the two? After all, I DO have a NERV emblem on my jacket, but Haruhi and Nia are also there...so it's a toss up... well... not really - religiously I'm a Haruhist...but NERV... I would watch the Youtube - but I'll have to wait till tomorrow when I'm in a more hospitable location... however, I did google them and they don't seem to have a website, which is pretty shoddy.... Will try to find out more about it tomorrow when I can actually watch the youtube vids... Pete

Hm... but I'm not watching HK oldschool dubs...or at least I don't think I am. I'm watching M7 with translations done by some guy named Yuriko Watanabe, editing by Andy Brewer, Tod Perkins and Hiroaki Fukuda and the general subbing attributed to something called Axis Central Anime... In any case - the quality of the picture is perfect. I can't comment on the quality of the translation, but given that I am able to engage in coversation about this show with other people - I THINK I'm watching basically the same thing as they are Pete

Good point. That is a relatively low development cost. I guess they just need to figure out how to mass produce it to bring the price per unit down then. Pete

Wow. Who would have thought that the truth was that they couldn't mass produce it and so decided to sell them on a per-customer/per-order basis? Wow. not me. Wow. I thought Yamato was just evil and produced things we all want and then jacked up the prices to spite us because this is how the world works. Like that's why bread and milk and water cost a million dollars. Or don't they? Wow. Anyways, it's wierd hearing that they have labor costs. And what's this about a factory and machines and a million yen that it costs to develop something like this? Wow. A million yen. I was sure Yamato was paying a blind legless chinese man half a piece of an Amerian penny to come up with this stuff. Wow. I'm shocked. Pete

They explicitly acknowledge the TV show. In episode 1 of Macross 7, when Exedol wonders aloud whether Basara is trying to mimic the Lyn Minmey attack, the bridge bunnies have the following dialogue: BB1: Who's that? BB2: You didn't see the movie Do You Remember Love? This explicitly acknowledges that the TV show is cannon while DYRL is just a movie that is shown "in universe" - kind of like Birdman is a movie about Macross Zero shown in Macross Frontier (although we don't get to see the whole thing). The fact that the character and mecha designs more closely resemble DYRL is a factor of the beauty of the animated form of story telling. Ultimately - artistic interpretation has a LOT of leeway. And can you blame Kawamori for wanting to use the more realistic and well animated designs of DYRL - which, especially Mecha wise - aren't actually that different from SDFM TV - but are just "cleaner" in terms of more closely reflecting line art.

Yeah, well - meanwhile you could rewatch the not so shiny but nonetheless existing subs Probably the best review of episode 1 I have read so far I will say it a million times - the passion of the anti-M7 crowd is so inspiring because it reminds me of Nekki Bassara and it's also a microcosm for the events of the series itself, wherein not just Gamlin, but the military - heck even MYLENE -doubts Bassara and doesn't believe in what he's doing. It's almost as if the show creators anticipated that the crazy premise would divide people Episode 1 already shows the fault lines forming. Anyways - you all have until next Friday to bitch, moan or ignore this thread and Episode 1 After that, we will all enjoy watching episode 2 while drinking lemonade ;P Pete

Yaaaaaaaaaaawn. Why is this so surprising? It's actually not hard to believe. I could totally see Memo divorcing his wife for an RT fan and emptying his bank account to fly VAs and HG reps to Chile. Why not? Look - let's start from the basics here: Many of these people like a show that is fake - from start to finish. They consider a screwy bootleg to be a great work of art. If you start from THAT premise - then why would any other crazy sounding thing be that hard to believe? So - I would tend to believe Pizza The Hut here. Yes - I am perfectly open to this theory. I am also perfectly open to the in-fighting theory and all of that. It sounds perfectly in line with their MO up to this point. As for conspiracy theories in general - I think most of them have merit. Conspiracies are just secretive actions planned by small groups of people... if you look at it that way, then the word doesn't sound like such a crazy concept. The REAL problem with "conspiracy theories" is that some of them are nutts, others are more plausible. But "conspiracy" in and of itself is not something unheard of, and is actually fairly common amongst human beings - and not always something done with an evil goal, world domination or the destruction of the universe in mind.. Pete

TOPIC OF DISCUSSION: EPISODE 1 Ok, I just watched this yesterday...and of course I kind of broke my own rules by watching episode 2 along with it... but I'll try to keep them seperated in my mind... and just focus on episode 1.... Here goes: First and foremost: you know what? We have done a grave injustice to Nekki Bassara in many of our previous M7 related threads about him because we have bowed to those who lamment that he is a one dimmensional character; a cardboard character who is disintererested and aloof and only cares about his music and his "mission." Perhaps that's the impression that 40-some odd episodes of M7 leaves, but watching JUST episode 1 - Bassara seems to be far more three dimmensional and down to earth and human....oh...wait ... I need to stop - because that's episode 2 speaking... So scratch that and save it for later... Ah! Ok - NOW I remember my impressions of episode 1... Here we go again: This episode reminded me of Macross Frontier - or rather, it was a pleasure to see just how much Macross 7 DID in fact influence Macross Frontier. From the architecture of the Colony ships (which is obvious, but still nice), to the sequenceing of the story. You have a concert being prepared, you have the main character flying through the artificial sky of the colony dome (albeit on a parachute instead on EX-gear), you have aliens suddenly invade DURING the concert, and you have singing during the battle. Now, of course there is a difference insofar as Sheryl didn't jump into a valkyrie and head out into the fight, but the singing was choreographed with the battle, and later we learn that the Vajra were specifically drawn to the Frontier by her singing (in line with the paradoxical use of music in MF as compared to M7 where the Protodevilin are repelled by Bassara's singing). This episode also shares the same faults as the first episode of Macross Frontier: namely it is a very introductory episode. It's hard to say that there's any character development - it's more a debute. Everybody gets shown in characteristic situations and the general plot gets set up. Crap. I really want to talk about some parts of episode 2... but I can't do that yet Um...anyways - I will say that I really think the sequence with Bassara flying off into battle was well done because it was drawn out, and as a viewer, you didn't know what was going to happen - and the hope was that the viewer would basically be staring at Bassara with the same wide eyed dumb founded expression as Mylene was making when looking at the monitor, seeing what he was doing. Flying the VF-19 Kai through that hail of protodevilyn fire, you really didn't know - not even after he'd converted to battroid mode and started shooting...you really didn't expect that he'd fire speaker pods at the enemy and then sing to them. That was a big surprise. It's a surprise that is not easy to enjoy for us old time fans unless you're in the right frame of mind - which in some sense can make this episode boring becuase literally "nothing" happens except "the enemy shows up and Bassara goes to sing to them." Since this is the basic plot of the whole series - it's hard to call this episode very compelling. But you need to step back and try to look at it as if you were seeing this for the very first time - then certainly this event would be enough to carry the whole episode and make it memorable. Finally - a mention of Gamlin: in asmuch as some people didn't (and don't) like Bassara - at this stage of the show, I don't like Gamlin. Forget everything you know about Gamlin from the series - just looking at episoe 1 - he looks like a hot blooded prick. He reminds me of Alto after Ozma and the crew of the Quarter rebelled against the government. Alto was just as stubborn and hot blooded - and both he and Gamlin had a tendency to holler out a similar sounding battle cry which I find particularly annoying. Needless to say, both he and Gamlin were also ON THE WRONG SIDE. Although in Alto's case - I think it's more justified because he stayed on Frontier to be with Sheryl... maybe the idiot just had an easier time of explaining it away as a hatred for the Vajra (although the "I'll kill Ranka" line was an extreme example of the depths of Alto's stupidity)... but I think deep down he really loved Sheryl and wanted to stay for her sake - to support her in a time of great need. He was just too much of a dweeb to explicitly admit to himself that that was his reason for staying. Err...but I digress - my point here is only that at this stage of the show - Gamlin is set up as not a very interersting or compelling character unless you totally agree that the dude flying the red and yellow airplane in the middle of the battle is an annoyin moron. So, I guess in that sense Gamlin serves to give voice to the legions of M7 haters. He kind of incorporates that point of view into the show. The bridge bunnies: I hardly remember these girls because all of them seem to be sex dolls rather than having personalities like the original three from SDFM TV. However, seeing them again - I am by no means complaining. They are cute. But, even compared to Frontier Bridge Bunnies...they seem kind of devoid of personality. However, this might be on account of Exodol. Having Max and Exodol on the bridge kind of reduces the potential for the Bridge bunnies to do anything but look good and - as Sigourney Weaver put it in "Galaxy Quest" : "repeat the computer." They are basically there because it's cooler to have sexy babes saying "Squad B launched" rather than have Max listen to a computer say it. Maybe they get more interesting as the series progresses - but I don't remember it..so hopefully later on I'll be pleasantly surprised. Finally - the animation: you know... I could never stand the VF-17's animation because it just looks like a blob with no visible contures. Macross Frontier does a bit of a better job with this - although when they present the valkyrie in WHITE... it actually looks even WORSE (IMO) than it does in black, because while the contures are visible, they are not very appealling. Although I do hope Bandai makes a VF-100 VF-17 Nightmare for Gamlin... Anyways...so much for episode 1. As exciting as I hope this entire thread will get....I realize that episode 1 might be anti-climactic for many of us because the inclination is to move forward... But let's try to stick with this episode a bit and see what we can dig out of it? Pete

So, Recently I've come to the conclusion that it's been way too long since I watched Macross 7. Part of the reason for this is that I lost the file on my computer with Macross 7 on it when, sometime last year, my computer decided to get infected with a virus and basically die. Now, with the upcoming Bandai V100 VF-19 Kai, I've decided it seems like the perfect time to re-watch Macross 7. But, because I remember our common adventure watching Macross Frontier together, where we watched about one episode per week and wrote our hearts out about what we liked and didn't like - I thought it would be best to adopt this same format for re-watching Macross 7. Therefore - this thread is NOT meant to chronicle your general impressions of the series or be another "what do you think about M7?" general thread. Instead, its' purpose to as follows: Thread Guidelines 1. Once a week, please watch one episode of Macross 7. Naturally, we will all start with episode 1. 2. Post your impressions - what you liked and what you didn't like. 3. Since most of us have seen the entire series before, I'm sure lots of people (like me), will sometimes write about how certain things about a certain episode pertain to M7 in general, however (and this applies to me as well): please try to keep your post concentrated on the episode we are discussing/watching together. If we just watched episode 1, please try to focus just on episode 1's merits and demerits and not stray off too far into a general discussion of M7 4. The "once a week" rule isn't a firm one, but rather a rule of thumb. If a conversation seems to be petering out quicker - we can move on to watching the next episode. 5. For the benefit of people who enter the thread from eventually later pages please always write at the top of each post WHICH EPISODE WE ARE DISCUSSING. This will help avoid a mess being created, since unlike the MF discussion, we're not going to have a seperate thread for each episode. This whole thread will hopefully end up being a big chronicle of the various opinions about M7. 6. Agent One you are welcome to watch with us and tell us why it all stinks This generally goes for all anti-M7 people. This is your chance to relive the pain episode by episode and share it with us. Tell us what rubs you the wrong way. I hope everyone has fun! Below, I'll make the first post about Episode 1 - I invite people to watch the episode in your liesure and also post your impressions. We'll focus on Episode 1 until next Friday - unless the discussion seems to end a lot quicker - but we'll see! ---------- Pete

Good point Pete

That actually does clear things up Thanks. Pete

I'll have you know that people who drink vodka DON'T GET UP IN THE MORNING I used to drink vodka regularly every day - but I would start around 2 pm, because I'd wake up at 12 noon and need to shower and get dressed. Then it would take me a while to take the metro downtown to my favorite speak easy, which opened at 2 pm and I'd usually have my first vodka then. The place would fill up by around 5 or 6 and there'd be people to drink with. By about midnight everybody was drunk and puking and that's when we'd go clubbing We'd dance till about 10 am in the morning and most people would pass out or hit the sack by then. Weekends were none stop. But that all ended when I opened my store and stopped buying vodka and started buying valkyrie. Now I can't drink at all because I have a car... But maybe one day... Pete

Here's another random thought: Humanity has surpassed the Protoculture because Humanity has Nekki Bassara. I was ALMOST going to write "Lyn Minmei" - because she was pioneer who showed everyone the path but... the thing with Minmei is that I think she kind of stumbled into it. She did not consciously set out to end conflict through the power of music - she just happened to do it. I don't mean to say that she wasn't very brave -but you have to admit she was somewhat of a RELUCTANT savior - because it's a huge burden, and kind of like Misa had to struggle to preserve her womanliness in the face of her military career/upringing - so Minmey had to resign herself to being an idol rather than a woman... Bassara has no problems on this front - he is kind of like the fulfillment of the kind of life that Minmey showed was possible. And it doesn't make him less manly - he still gets all the chicks And this is something the Protoculture couldn't figure out. They were kind of like the Macross Galaxy - they clearly looked to science for all their salvation - even humanity was a science project meant to save them - but it's humans who actually opted not for more snazzy gadgets but the passion of a love song and love itself as the key to salvation. So - yes - humanity has surpassed the Protoculture. Pete

When I see something like that, and know I could never accomplish it - I feel embarassed critiquing anything but... The one thing that I think is a bit of a sore thumb is the trigger finger not being ...in the trigger don't kick me. Truly good work! pete

Hm. That's a good point...but...there's a difference... Ozma was dealing with a mature woman - not a girl like Mylene. If Ozma punched leon's lights out, Cathy would just get pissed and be with Leon to spite Ozma- seriously - that's how older girls are. You have to treat them like dirt - then they start missing you and they keep calling you - Ozma did the right thing focusing on taking care of Ranka and flying his plane. So I think the comparisson fails - although it is an interesting one... Pete

The "it would make other people feel better" part I remember - because she went and wore it to "make Bassara feel better" ... I guess she interpreted his stone-cold focus and determination as meaning that he's just down in the dumps ... not necessarily an unwise inference Anyways... this Gamlin thread has gotten me to thinking about Mylene - and you know what? She really cute!! The problem is, I totally HATE her concert outfit. I mean, Bassara's is pretty bad - but Mylene...with the 1970s aerobics tights over a one piece bathing suit... it's just...it's not even out there...it just looks BAD. However- when Mylene dresses NORMALLY - she's actually cute... Her hair is wierd too - that metalic head band/amp thing she wears in concert just messes up her hair... it looks wierd... but when she has her hair tied back - it looks good. Mylene's personality is no better... her determination is equal to Basara's - but while Basara is stubborn because of idealism... she's stubborn like your mom was when you were 5 and you just HAD TO EAT YOUR FCUKING POTATOS!!... But there's way to little Mylene worship despite her faults... I really like Dakedo Baby...and the endings with Mylene were great! Um...and Gamlin is a nice guy (just keeping it on topic) Pete

I thought he was the funnest thing that happened to MW in a long time. I mean, awesome enough that a guy shows up to defend Robotech - that's always fun, but one with a persecution complex who - after getting everybody all psyched up comes out with the real reason he's here... to find out about the "real" length of the SDF-1 I thought it was wonderfully anti-climatic. Ah - memories... Pete

I don't know what you're talking about -but I L-O-V-E MYLENE!!! BOMBA!!! Pete

Is that the thing Misa and Kaifun flew out in to yell at Hikaru? I didn't know it had a Gerwalk mode? Why? I would be interested I guess...but I have yet to even get any Destroids, which are next on my list after getting the M&Ms which will pretty much round out and finish my SDFM TV collection. Pete

Maybe now that Keith has once again started talking about how RT will give people AIDS, Captain Donovan will come back? Pete

Oooo...Galaxy Express 999 ....I've heard of them... that...through the err...toys I think...need to check it out... Man - so much cool stuff still ahead! Pete Edit: Gamlin gave Mylene that Kimono, right? I think that was a tasteful present. Oh wait. No... Who gave her that Kimono? Didn't...Gamlin give it to her? If he did - right on. Nice present

Well - yeah... they do seem a bit cheeky But I'm still at the stage where I can't even build a wall out of legos let alone craft something like this so...I bow down in awe before your might.. Pete

Sorry to keep picking on you recently - but this is a contradictory statement. Because, if one of the "two kinds of people" you list are "people who believe there are only two kinds of people" - then in fact, "people who believe there are only two kinds of people" are people like you/the statement maker, who clearly states "there are only two kinds of people." Now - if the other of the "two kinds of people" are people "who are smart enough to know better" - than this implies that "those who are smart enough to know better" are actually PART OF the "two kinds of people" talked about in the statement - ergo - they actually don't know better, because they are one of the two kinds of people there are. Maybe another way to put this is, you have written: A = (A and B) Because: There are Two Kinds of People = People who think there are two kinds of people = A (I submit that there is parity between the person who states "there are two kinds of people" and the person who THINKS there are two kinds people, since to state it, you NECESSARILY must THINK it. Whereas B = people who "are smart enough to know better." But A cannot = A and B That is, you can't at once state that there are ONLY TWO kinds of people and then imply that one of the two kinds of people are people who KNOW that there are MORE than two kinds of people. In fact - it is the ONLY which makes this illogical. Only implies exclussivity. So there are ONLY (exlussively) two kinds of people (axiom 1) and one kind of people "are smart enough to know better" aka to know that there are MORE than two kinds of people? (contradicts the first axiom). So which is it: Are there ONLY two kinds of people - or are there two kinds of people (not just "only" two kinds) - namely the kind that think there are ONLY two kinds of people and those smart enough to know better? Yeah.. That's it - I think. Get rid of the "only" and then the statement makes sense. Otherwise it is self-contradictory. I think... Pete