VFTF1

This just goes to show that no matter what stupid ideas pop into my head, somebody always beats me to them Pete

But wasn't The Fly II just a remake of the Fly? Or Halloween II just a remake of Halloween? In any event -my idea is a remake of a sequal... Like take Godfather II and make Godfather II 2 I know it's stupid. But that's kind of the point pete

You know what would be really interesting? If instead of sequals, we got remakes of sequals. Example: Ghosbusters 2 2 Rocky II II You know - take the exact same story, same situations - just change the actors and make it more modern, add som FX etc... A remake of sequal is something that hasn't been done. It could be more terrible than anything anyone has managed to do up to this point. Pete

I actually think "crappybootleg.com" is a better way to refer to the the site From the little bit that I've watched of Russia Today, they seem to be pretty good. They're an all-english language Russian produced news site. I only watched a couple of interviews they did with certain Americans I was interested in listening too - but again - they seemed ok. Re: the post on crappybootleg.com which was supposed to be interesting tabloid fodder: YAAAWN. The only thing remotely interesting in that entire post was the revelation that Robotech fans make films called "Thong Man." Pete

This link doesn't work for me... any help? What's the topic called? I can access RT.com just fine (actually...we reall need to stop calling it "RT.com" because that's a Russian news site I think ... Anyways - I can access Crappybootleg.com just fine - but I can't access that link and want to partake in the tabloidish gossip Pete

I woke up this morning, and as is my routine, I opened my clost to say "hi" to my Yammies. They were all in Battroid mode - all of them - the VF-1S, the two Max and Kakizake 1As, the 1D, the VT-1...everything... And each and every one of their arms have fallen off at night. The plastic just disintegrated and the arms apparently flopped off And when I tried to examine one of the arms, it melted in my hands. and then all of them self-combusted and, like a Spinal Tap drummer, left a little green pool where once a valk stood. I'm off to check on the Bandai DXs now... Pete

To make the comparisson truly complete, someone would have to demonstrate how one of these real world companies also produces sexy idol singers Which actually might not be THAT difficult... Pete

Don't we already have a thread discussing what the next Macross might be/should be/could be/shouldn't be? Pete (the question is purely rhetorical)

Daikarn looks good. Tobikage...not so much. But if Bandai put out SOC Gurren Lagann figures I'd obviously be very happy. Pete

I invite you to the MW rewatches M7 thread where this notion is in the process of being disproved. When we're done, we'll have exploded all these wrong headed stereotypes about Macross 7 - it's not only great for the general message or plot theme, not just because the songs - it is also a very well woven tale. Pete

Not saying it's not true - but it sounds wierd because...they wouldn't let him make the main character a girl...but they let him make the main character a cross-dresser? Pete who is unable to bring himself to watch any more Turn-A-Gundam for fear of melting what little remains of his brain

Yes - let it be known that on this day, on Macrossworld, history was forever changed as VFTF1 came up with the term "plotfodder." I wanted a word that connoted the same thing as cannon-fooder; except in the context of the plot of a story as a whole rather than just people necessarily put into a battle so that "someone could die" - these would be people who necessarily had to have something bad happen to them so that the plot could advance. ergo - Plot fodder And life as we know it will never be the same. Pete

No Not yet But I can still run my mouth of with the best of them That said... I'm getting more and more convinced that we all don't remember anything about Macross 7. Mari Ijima makes an appearance for instance - and if that's NOT her then...she's still a very very very beautiful girl. More beautiful than Misa, she's the perfect woman... Also - Bassara has a habit of picking his ear and eating what he pulled out - yuck - but there. Look. He's human. He picks his ear and then mindlessly chews on the crap Um... but getting ahead of myself .... I know...I need to finish reading the book... But I read the important parts with the mouth stretching Pete

Actually - there is no contradiction. To say that the military was funding Minmey makes it look like something unique. But in fact, on the Macross, the military was funding EVERYTHING. In the sense that, the thing was a war ship totally under military command, and Macross city found its' way inside quite by coincidence. What was the military supposed to do? Put all of those people into a storage bay and "let them eat tuna?" I guess it could have - but it made more sense to salvage as much of the city as possible from outer space and help people rebuild. Besides, the people of Macross city DID have a civilian government - and that government survived pretty much in tact (in the form of the mayor) to come aboard the Macross. I expect that the Mayor was not just a token figure, but in the situation, retained his legal authority over the civilian population, and his standing vis-a-vis the military was still governed by conventional Earth laws (whatever they were - they MUST have been there in some shape or form, since we are shown that, prior to the return of the Macross, there is STILL a civilian government on Earth that the military is subservient to). That said - here's another point to think about: the distribution of goods and services on the Macross, prior to the rebuilding of the city, and pretty much right after/during the rebuilding, was centrally planned. This is explicitly stated when Minmey suggest reopening the restaurant and she discusses with her aunt and uncle how the military might give them "more rations" for this purpose. The military - or more specifically Captain Global - who is in authority on the Ship - recognizes the benefit of allowing a civilian city to grow in the midst of the ship - it will help relieve stress for soldiers, give them something to do in off hours, and also most likely - if the civilians are engaged in productive economic activity - they will actually bring a net benefit to the Macross as such rather than being a simple drain on their resources that sits in a hangar, consumes food and grumbles about when they'll finally be brought home (Gundam, anyone?). But let's not kid ourselves - once the city develops into full swing, that complex economic system was in no way shape or form the result of Captain Global sitting around or appointing a Great Planner to manage everything. And what about money? They had to have SOME kind of monetary system - and I highly doubt Captain Global decided to power up his Hewlett Packard Laser Printer and print monopoly money with his face on it for people to trade for goods and services. It is never explained where money came from on the Macross or how the economy developed EXCEPT in one scene: Minmey taking the initiative to suggest and then help execute the re-opening of the Nian Nian restaurant. For me - that scene is symbolic of how the entire city developed: All around, individuals decided that they'd rather do fun things instead of sit around pissing and moaning. They used the resources they could to rebuild the world around them in a way that made them happier - in this case, to make a "little Earth" on the Macross. To say then that the military was "funding" Minmey is not really true - book or no book. Minmey was self-made. She opened the restaurant. She wanted to sing. She sang. The military gave her a venue and wisely helped her - but at key moments it was Minmey who took the initiative - especially during Global's speech about deciding to give amnesty to the Zentradi spies. Can there by ANY doubt that it was MINMEY - not Captain Global - who convinced the citizens of the Macross to accept the three spies despite all the death and destruction that the Zentradi had caused in countless attacks? So what if it was on a military TV? Big deal. There would be no MBS if there weren't hundreds of people with talents and ideas who wanted to put something on it and other throngs of people who wanted to watch it. So - for me - there's no "issue" here. Minmey did it herself - just like Nekki Bassara is trying to do on the Macross 7. So what if Max is "in on it." Macross 7 will show us later on what it looks like when the military REALLY "Funds" singers...and it's not a pretty picture. In the mean time - I say the military just wisely allowed people like Minmey to do their thing. They did not interefere -and really, we should stop saying "the military" and "they." The credit goes to Global who is the Master of his ship. Just like on a boat, the Captain is the Law - so too Global is like a wise king on the Macross who allows the citizens to flourish. So - nope. The military didn't "fund" Minmey. The military didn't do anything but wisely let her sing and wisely ask her to use her song to help the war effort rather than, for instance, censoring it and stifling it - which they COULD HAVE done. They could have said "what?! Use resources to rebuild a city on a battle space ship!? That's stupid! We need to melt all those remaining buildings down to make cannons and destroids etc etc." Instead - Global made use of the citizens. If you want to see what the Macross would have looked like if the economy were run differently - if rationing and central military planning of civilian life took precedent over allowing individuals to take their own initiative: look to Mobile Suite Gundam. That's a great example of what happens when the Captain of the ship just puts all the old people and children in a storage bay, takes the young boys and forces them into war machines and makes all the girls nurses or puts them behind a computer. But then again - White Base never had the chance to completely "loose" itself from Earth... which brings me to my next point... Yes. And more precisely - the Macross was like a rebirth of humanity - long before the destruction of the planet by the Boldoza fleet. This is because the Macross had to fend for itself, and was effectively on its' own and not hindered by the politics of Earth. The only limits on the Macross were those of nature and physical reality - and these limits are not as hard to overcome as the limits imposed by human stupidity, recalcitrance, corruption and evil. Remember too, that the Earth that Boldoza destroyed was already effectively a dead planet anyways. The whole planet had become a military dictatorship. Those dudes that Global and Misa reported to in Alaska were the ruling oligarchs who had absolutely no interest in anything but power. To the extent that they were interested in defeating the Zentradi - it was mainly to save themselves and their territory. Humanity, in my view, at that point was really no different from the Boldoza fleet. There was nothing left but a facade. What the Boldoza fleet and the UN Spacey did to eachother in initiating a genocidal planetary war was no different than what the Protoculture once did to eachother. The Macross and Breetai's rebels were the remnant - the people who had become isolated from the collective and therefore enjoyed the freedom to see their enemies up close and learn about eachother and the need to fend for themselves and THINK for themselves rather than slavishly obey orders from up high. It is because they were free and independent city-states in space that they survived while the two big collectivist, centralized tyrant civilizations blew themselves up. Now what is happening on Macross 7 is history is repeating itself - and we see in Gamlin the same stubborn fighting spirit exhibited by...say...Gigil. And then we have Bassara diving into this singing a love song (or a disco tune, since planet dance is more about shaking your booty than about love). The only difference between Bassara and earlier generations is that Minmey kind of stumbled into her role, while Basara is obviously self-consciously trying to achieve something that he knows from history is possible. Pete

Ahh - but this is something easily missed - namely - Lyn Minmey's music didn't just "deal with uncultured Zentradi" - it also dealt with an increasingly beligerant humanity that was on its' way towards becoming more like the Zentradi with their Grand Cannon, with their totalitarian military rule over the Earth, lying about the Macross' fate, refusing to accept the civlians back onto Earth... as SDFM TV progressed - the human race became indistinguishable from the Zentradi. What allowed for a rebirth of humanity was the destruction of the planet which effectively destroyed everything - and when the war was over, BOTH the Zentradi and the surviving humans joined together to perpetuate culture. And Minmey's songs touched the hearts not only of Zentradi but of people as well. And this problem is continued in Macross 7 - look at Gamlin (sorry to harp on him like this - but we're just on Episode 1). Gamlin - at the point of Episode 1 - is an honor bound warrior who thinks Nekki Bassara is not so much crazy as a HINDERENCE to effectiveness in combat. Gamlin just wants him to get out of the way so he can shoot more accurately. What is the difference between episode 1's Gamlin in M7 and...Boldoza? I say- nothing really. They both don't see ANY alternative to war. Boldoza's philosophy of life - the universe is full of conflict PERIOD...that is Gamlin's view as well. And the singing is not just meant to restore culture to the Zentradi - but to preserve it amongst humans. That's what Max remembers - that was the mission of the Megaroad and the colonization program - MAINLY to spread bunka in the universe - that would be preserving humanity... Pete

Well - look - that the original possesors of those bodies "did not exist" at that point is irrelevent - the fact is that there was no real memorial given to those people, nor were they thought of - in fact, they were kind of forgotten - treated like what I would call "plot fodder." Plot fodder is worse even than cannon fodder, because cannon fodder usually serves to die so that you feel sad and see that war is sad. PLOT FODDER is the worse possible category a character can fall into - he exists to die so that his carcass can be possessed by the plot device. This has always been my one and only real gripe with Macross 7 and it's happy pappy ending. Pete

The problem with Alternators is that they stopped taking advantage of the format. What possible reason was there for Mustang Grimlock or Pick up Truck Prime (beyond possibly retaining TMs to the names?) Come on. They should have made Stunticons (beyond that lame Dragstrip), and they should have made the pick up black and called it Trailbreaker. It's not like the G1 line doesn't offer ample material to work with. They dropped the ball when they started making random characters like Rumble and Prime into cars. Pete

I hope they build it and then proceed to create space elevators, Gundams to gaurd the space station, colonial ships that will transport us to the core of the galaxy and take with them the very best sushi bars, chinese food, strippers and eternally play Fire Bomber and Megumi and May'n!! BOMBA!! (you can tell I'm having a good weekend ) Pete

Yeah, but Basara never made the Protodevilin give back all the people whose bodies they'd taken over - which really really bugs me and makes me sad about the ending of the series... Or at least more sober. I mean - it's amazing what he did - but it's not perfect. Perfection would have been bringing back all those people who were lost. But I guess that's just life. It's stupid that so many people have to die before people in general learn simple things like that it's better to sing together than too shoot at eachother. Until human beings can get over THAT hurdle - then they will always be threatened with self-destruction just like the Protoculture was. Besides - let's not be so quick to pretend we know all of protoculture history just because we saw some carvings in a Pyramid, or heard a little bit of Rhetoric from the Birdman. There's stuff we don't know. Pete

Yes, and it wasn't jammed in there by Hasbro, but on commission from BBTS and other importers. There was also an HLJ yellowish plug for MP Megatron exports to the USA. Hasbro itself would NEVER bring MP Megatron over - plug or no plug. They'd probably have to paint the whole frickin' thing purple, orange and green to put it on a shelf and stick seven pink balloons on it to avoid the wrath of the "Think of the Children!!" crowd. Pete On Topic Comment: Robotech sucks. Macross rules. HG suxors. etc etc etc.... Dag... It's so hard to stay on topic in this thread sometimes because being RIGHT often means that, given the dwindling number of flat earth believers, let alone people who are at least able to either intelligently/scientifically or even MYTHOLOGICALLY state their flat earth position... there's nothing to talk about. And BBTS is merrily selling the v.2 Yammie and has been for quite a while. To me this proves that their initial "scare" (no doubt the result of some kind of letter from HG) has been tossed in the trash. Their lawyers probably called HG's bluff and HG was not able to do anything about it. Because I suspect that's all it is - a bluff. ANYBODY can write a cease and decist letter. It's a bully's tactic. But it only holds water when you can follow through and win a court case with it --- but have they EVER actually taken a retailer to court for selling Macross Yamato products? They can't. BBTS isn't officially distributing the stuff - they're just transfering THEIR OWN PROPERTY. See - this is where the licensing crap breaks down. When I buy a Yammie overseas and bring it to the USA - it's MINE. I can do whatever I want with it. Including adveristing it as a Yammie and selling it. Just like you don't need Toyota's permission to sell a Toyota you bought -and never used even - because let's say you buy it and want to sell it the next day? - so too you don't need HG's permission to transfer property for money. IMO. Pete

TOPIC: WE'RE STILL ON EPISODE 1 ! BOMBA! "Cool touch" ... that's like saying that Toronaga burning that one dutch guys balls on an open fire was a "cool touch" in Shogun For me, it was always so painful. Story wise, it did what it was supposed to do to my psyche - namely it made me scream "NOOOOO! I want MOOOORE!!!!" ... but personally, I prefer episodes which are more self-contained and have some more proper sense of closure rather than an abrupt ending. This "quick ending" gets more and more "annoying" (or effective) as M7 goes along. In any event - One thing that I do wonder about is the extent to which the story of Lyn Minmey is considered a myth or "fairy tale" by people on the various colony ships. You'd think people wouldn't be THAT surprised by what Basara is doing - particularly valkyrie pilots... but they are. Then again - I guess this just goes to show that no matter what miraculous, stupendous achievements human beings manage in the past, all that is good and beautiful needs to be re-affirmed anew by new people in new situations. Pete

Re: Jasonc's avatar: Actually - I've seen that girl before. I ran across some Robotech fansite where the guy had re-done the entire Robotech saga using flash player and semi-South Park animation. I think that's Minmey or somebody...not sure who...but... I did see that avatar.. now I don't see it... oh well. Wait - crap. Now I see it again. Heh - that's wierd. It literally dissapeared and reappeared. I'm not going to ask a girl how old she is because that would be rude of me, but I will say that until I hit 30, it was the same for me. People joked that I had a tape worm or something because I could eat without limit. Then again, it's only when I reached 25 or 26 that I REALLY started to eat. I mean, in the sense of filling portions. Before that it was KFC, Macdonalds etc etc - Pizza...although not so much Pizza hut...I liked Pappa John's the best, Dominos (when it was still around...but that was a long time ago, right?...or are they still around?) ...there's a kind of polish equivalent to it here... anyways - nowadays I do what I can to keep weight down to tolerable levels. So clearly my metabolism is dead, because now I have to get on the exercise bike and work out. Pete

Well... I'm such a cheater...I've watched up to episode 7 and it just shows what a long time it's been... it's so totally not true that the first few episodes are repetitive - the story does actually move forward...but... I'LL SHUT UP NOW AND TRY TO TALK ABOUT EPISODE 1 The idea of starting something en medias rex is indeed riske for an "animated" show, but then again - this is also how Macross Frontier started out. And I was just as "annoyed" by that beginning as I was by the first episode of Macross 7. But it's easy to forget or not know/realize that Macross 7 has 47 episodes (right?). That's A LOT of story time. There's going to be plenty of time to figure out what's going on, and in terms of backstory - that's what DYRL and SDFMTV are there for... The only complaint I have about the spiritia stealing scenes is the fact that the enemy uses the word "spiritia." Now - does this have any connotations to the Japanese ear? Because to the english ear - the word "spiritia" is so clearly close to "spirit" that UNFORTUNATELY it's actually easy to guess what's going on judging by the state of the victims of the attack. I mean - it was pretty much immediate in terms of how long it took me to realize that these enemies were somehow "sucking" the "spirit" out of people. It would have heightened the apprehension and mystery if, instead of calling it "spiritia" - there was some other term for it. As for frightening - personally I find the vampires far more terrifying...not to get to ahead of myself... but the vampire infiltrators are more frightening because in a war - does it really matter in terms of the level of fear whether you're getting killed, maimed, shell shocked or having your life-spirit sucked out of you? All of these fates are frightening - however, that said - it is MYSTERIOUS - and certainly, just as Bassara's singing to the enemy is "strange" (aka mysterious) - so too is the sucking of spiritia. And I always love a good mystery. Yeah, well... in this sense it was easier to animate Minmey singing than to animate Fire Bomber singing - given how much more complexity there is in playing instruments. I have always wondered about whether the notes Ray hits or the chords Bassara and Mylene hold actually correspond to the noises the instruments make. It seems only Veffidas gets some level of complexity in the animation of her drumming but..yes - you're right - this is a downer. Certainly the level of choreography is no where NEAR Macross Frontier, which is really a stupendous feat in terms of the animation of the music scenes... everything from the dancing, to the gestures...it's all perfect and really really well done. That said, it's not like Minmey's concerts were all that exciting either in terms of animation. I think anime with this kind of ...er...animation...is kind of like a moving manga. It still leaves much to the imagination and there's still a lot of manga-ism going on despite it being an anime and not a manga. But on the plus side at least Mylene gets to see her panties for a split second We are only left to imagine... and speaking of the Flower Girl - she's easy to forget but ... I would love it if there was a Macross 7 novel about her... Gubaba just hasn't found his voice yet in episode 1. The blasts are not from inside the ship - but are seen happening outside..at least that's what I thought. As for the tilt of the Diamond Force stands...I think it's a reflection of the lateral axis flux patterns on B-grade delta wi-fi attachment acceleration units. Didn't you know? Failing that - we can ask Mr. March - he knows everything! And that is a great question for our more tech-head inclined members to ponder. Hm. Clearly I must have a totally different viewing experience or way of viewing...my imagination just works differently. I explain the gusts of wind as being caused not by explosions in space, but by the dome cracking where it is broken by missile fire, laser fire, falling valkyrie etc etc. I think we even see an enemy ship fall onto the city - although it's kind of vague... but certainly I totally don't believe that those are gusts of wind caused by explosions in space. The dome is cracking in select places due to the battle and the explosions come from inside the dome atmosphere. Oh yeah - and I didn't address the microphones as "ducks"... Well... a static micophone is put on a flying saucer and the whole thing happens to be collored yellow - and hey presto - it looks like a duck. Me, I always wondered what the point of those bulbs on Bassara's concert uniform were all about. Can he press a button and create a disco light show all by himself? Or are those just decorations? Is this "in vogue" on Macross 7? Oh - speaking of in vogue and style... One interesting thing to consider is the architecture of Macross 7. Given that Macross city on the SDF-1 was modeled on Tokyo of 1982, and Frontier was based on San Franscisco... M7's architecture is pretty zanny. If I'm not mistaken, they've got: a) the tower of London b) The Eifle Tower c) An Egyptian Pyramid And then a mixture of sci-fi buildings with redbrick townhouses (but the latter is episode two I guess...so I shouldn't mention it). Anyways - the architecture is pretty generic on Macross 7 - it's as if the idea was right in terms of thinking that humans would want to reflect Earth culture and Earth history in the architecture of their space colonies, but it's kind of done without taste - it's like they took a tourist guide and stuck the 7 wonders of the world onto Macross 7 and...well... yeah...it looks generic. Finally - the dome itself looks way lower than the dome in Frontier. Anyways...I can't wait till we get to episode 2 - because episode 1 really is just a quick intro. From episode 2 onwards, the series runs like a soap opera. I can remember that this is one of the things I totally loved about it. I remember when I first watched it, I had lots more work than I do now, and I would get up early in the morning, walk the dog, go to work, come back for lunch, go to work again...and usually be back from work at 10. That's when I'd walk the dog AGAIN and then finally...bliss. I would buy beer, order pizza and watch as much M7 as I could before passing out. And the next day, I couldn't wait until the evening because the story is just soooooooooooo soap operaish. And maybe this is why people don't remember any of the particulars - there are just so many things going on while there's really only one over-riding theme to the show. So everybody remembers the theme; nobody remembers the particulars. For instance: Dynasty. I remember that Blake was loving, wise, stern and only ever really got pissed at his son's homosexual lover. Alexis was conniving. Chrystal was caring and protective of Blake. That one dude with the darker hair loved his mom more than his dad. But if you asked me to give you specific EXAMPLES of when these characters exhibited these traits - I couldn't. I don't remember. It's there - but I forgot where. It's kind of the same with Macross 7. The progress of the show is so very episodic that eventually we just remember the culmination - the character that was built rather than the process of building. God- I'm so breaking my own guidelines and rules. I really need to stop talking in general terms. It's just...episode 1 really doesn't give us that much to discuss yet. I mean - WOW! HUH!? He flew out in a red and yellow Valkyrie and sang to the enemy?! We do get hints of what's going on - for example Ray being able to hack into Military computer terminals... although I wonder...did he hack or was it just because Max let him? Anyways... I'll be going to sleep soon. Good stuff. And it's only going to get better from here on out! Pete

I always thought the duck doubled as a harmonica for bassara...? Pete

Well -I might be wrong, but wasn't Alternators a complete financial flop in the USA? I heard Hasbro was very upset with how those sold, and that they did indeed sell badly. I'm guessing it was because kids found them overly complex and easily breakable (no fun) while adults couldn't really be assed about them... In that sense, it's not Hasbro's 'fault' - it's just the way the market in the states is... Which leads to the question of WHY. Why is it that in Japan accurate scale models and figures are more popular than in the USA? With Europe it's hard to say what is popular and what isn't because taxes like VAT totally distort everything IMO. There would be a lot more products potentially offered in higher quantities if not for the burgeoning costs of selling anything... so Europe usually offers a hodge podge of whatever people manage to import. This is even true for big brand names like Transformers, because Hasbro UK doesn't usually offer EVERYTHING that appears on the US market, but is more sellective... Pete