VFTF1

I just wanna know one thing ... I haven't seen Gundam OO, and I don't mind getting "spoiled" - but WHY do they even combine? I mean...what is the use of having a jet on the Gundam's back and its' wings on the shoulders? Pete

Now why would Sheryl need two bullets, one bigger and one smaller...? A mystery all of us no doubt would love to solve! And that Ranka looks great too! Man...I need to stop visiting this thread! It's just too good!!! Pete

I think it would be fun if people tried to cosplay the civilian clothes worn by Misa and Hikaru, just like we often see cosplay of civilian clothes (my euphemism for sexy lingerie) of Ranka and Sheryl... But seriously - I have nothing against the uniforms; but I would love to see Misa cosplayed as she was when she went to see Shao Pai Lon. Minmey had a number of cute outfits. And Max in his "I'm going on a date to the park - which tie should I wear Chewy?" suit would be great Pete

I hope you're right about the VF-19 Kai, although it couldn't just be a simple repaint of the YF-19. It would require a whole new mold that might use some of the design parameters of the existing 19, but there are just too many differences. I would really prefer it done by Yamato in the 1:60 scale. I'm excited about Bandai's 1:100 .... but I wonder...should I not hedge and just patiently wait for a Yammie? I think that might be best. I mean...what use is there for a 1:100 Bassara valkyrie when everything I have (Bandai and Yamato) is in 1:60? Aaanyways... Regarding this whole "idea for a new valk" thing... I think it's pointless. There are a number of valkyrie designs which Yamato haven't touched yet and which take priority over any "new" designs. Besides - we just had a new design come out - the VF-25. Just like we don't want Macross....or ok - I don't want Macross to become like Transformers with a new anime out every new season, with redesigns every five minutes and with hundreds of transforming jets all over the place - so I don't really want a "new" Valkyrie design every five seconds. The fact is that if you look at the Valkyrie that have been designed up to now, it took Yamato a long time to perfect the VF-1 as a "toy." It took a long time to engineer the current YF-21 and VF-11B. Given peoples' complaints about the DX, it might be another 10 years until we get a VF-25 that is highly satisfactory rather than just satisfactory, at least one that isn't a model - although honestly the models could also use improvements - for instance the Gerwalk modes... I don't like crowding the field. There is plenty of work to be done on existing Valkyrie. There are valkyrie that have never been made into toys and there are valkyrie that have been, but could be improved. Finally - there will never be a new valkyrie design without a new Macross show or OVA to go with it. There might concievably be sketch books or whatever, but I highly doubt that that will be enough to sustain a toy line. I dunno...I guess if you're an airplane enthusiast, you can find pleasure in dreaming up planes to be "valkyrized" - but .... I think there's plenty enough to work on as is. Pete

Well yeah - I'm not saying Milia herself looks bad, but my main gripe is the ugly outfit she wears in episode 2, which she happens to repeatedly use in her capacity as mayor. I know it's a matter of taste, so there's no point arguing about it in the sense of finding who's "right" or "wrong" - but it is something I wonder about... It's like...the late 80s/early 90s were a fashion nightmare in my mind. I don't know if anybody else remembers this, but in the early 90s they were making every attempt possible to be "21st century" because it was just around the corner and to be "futuristic" because..well...the future was a couple years away...and the end result of this was some pretty outrageous fashion trends. Then again, it could just be because back then I remember Vanilla Ice being popular, as well as MC Hammer... Pete

Oh you don't need to convince me. I have a whole carton of Astray Blue Frames headed my way along with a bunch of other stuff as we speak Definitely will be building one of those! Pete

This is the second time today I've read this argument about Plus (first time about zero) and I just have to disagree. (The other place where I read this was in the now closed "Make a Valk like a TF" thread, where someone posted an off-hand comment that music didn't "beat the bad guy" so to speak in Plus, like it does in other Macross shows. I think some people need a refresher on Plus. Not major plot devices? In Plus, Myung's entire character arc was about whether music should be from the heart or whether it is just another job, and something to be controled via marketing, PR and even technology. This conflict came to a head when Sharon Apple's music was shown to be a weapon that could hypnotize people and take control of their brains, while Myung's song, which she ultimately sang in the end from the heart, was what defeated Sharon Apple and freed humanity. This tends to get forgotten because the music in Plus is not rock and roll nor are there like a zillion pop tunes as in DYRL/SDFM. Instead it's demure, slow and sad music and electronic music. Neither of those are music types that stay in your head or are appropriate for humming. As for Zero... without music, there would be no plot in that show. It is Sarah's songs that awaken all of the secrets of Protoculture on the Mayan island. Sorry for talking about Macross again - but just wanted to clarify that. Now back to Robotech: Is this on Youtube? I'd like to see it since it will no doubt prove delightfully entertaining to rip into it Pete

I think Jasonc is on to something here - it does seem like reverse resentment. Kind of like, they're jealous that Macross gets this cool continuation full of homages while Robotech gets Shadow Chronicles which actually does have homages - but of the worse kind... I would just add that the Macross fans I've encountered who do not like Frontier also don't like 7, and generally think Plus was the greatest thing in the universe. They also often conflate Robotech and Macross and they tend to be casual fans. Obviously I too am operating on the basis of radical generalizations based on personal experience. Pete

Well, Macross women have a tendency to be very manly - but that's just a facade... Anyways - I personally would be particularly interested in your specific views of what's wrong with these first three episodes that we're discussing? Since we're kind of on the subject of Bassara looking like a gay body builder from San Fransisco - then let's use Agent One's observation constructively and think also about the following: What do you think of the character designs? I mean - one of the things that honestly made it hard for me to get into M7 in the beginning - and we are talking about the beginning here since we're only three episodes into the series - was the character design; and specifically the outfits that Fire Bomber, especially Bassara, wears. I mean - is that thing a flight suit? Do those globes on his shoulders emit a light show for when he sings or reflect strobe lights or disco lights? And look at his shirt underneath - it reminds me of Borat's "fishnet underwear." I love Bassara, I love his music, but I think he and Mylene dress ....different...to say the least. And his boots ...are those knee length boots or is it an optical illusion since it seems the boots and pants are one? What do people think of how the characters dress? Out of concert, I really like Mylene (like in that butt shot). She looks like a good looking 80s chick, which is fine. As for Out of COncert Bassara .... he looks...well... he looks a little bit like a nerdy dorky 80s otaku? I dunno...the tight pants lacking in bell bottoms and the fact that he tucks in his green wife beater... very strange fashion choices. IS it a fashion choice - or is it just part of his grunge lifestyle (grunge, judging from where he lives and how). Does Bassara look like a gay bodybuilder from San Fransisco - or perhaps you found the look/design of the characters so appealing that it was one of the things that turned you on? Horonable mention: Veffidas: I just don't like the open tummy shirt, the pale skin combined with green hair...it's like the Joker on crack. Rey: Whenever I see him, I wonder to myself: Poor Beebop. Rey clearly beat up Beebop from TMNT and stole his threads Gamlin .... dresses preppy - he's like Mr. Rogers with no color coordination. Milia: ATROCIOUS outfits. I mean - seriously. That little French cap thing the fruffy flowery knee length skirts. The purple mixed with her green hair -and her hair, mind you, is terrible. It's the hair of a middle aged woman who has had her sex and children and decides to grow old and stop being attractive. No wonder Max lives in seperation from her. Max, on the other hand - well - his uniform is ok... but we never see him out of uniform do we? In any event - I always had mixed reactions to the character designs. I got over it as soon as I got into the story and the music and now I just accept it... but certainly I MUCH prefer the fashion designs in Macross Frontier and SDFM TV/DYRL. Pete

Knowing Grace, she arranged the pizza party, is monitoring the pizza party, and has tainted the pizza with nano-machines that will penetrate and probe Ranka's body to find the secret of how to control the Vajra. And you thought it was a happy moment Pete

Well, as I kind of postulated in my long "They are US Popculture fans/We are Otaku" post, it's not - in my opinion - a case of being too ambitious. The comparisson is unwarranted because the genres are totally different. First and foremost, they're comparing live action science fiction to anime, which in my mind is just pointless. But this in turn speaks to their horizons and understanding of "anime" - it's very narrow. Pete

Hey - please leave Agent One alone, ok? He's welcome to post in this thread. I really want anti-M7 people to participate, and Agent One has not written anything or done anything that is inflamatory, so please let him participate. Second of all - there are better ways to debate than to tell people you don't agree with to go away. Yes - I specifically asked for your participation and I am happy you are participating. Please don't get discouraged - but don't ask other people to leave either I think your status as a big time anti M7 guy makes your participation totally necessary - and I look forward to your continued commentary. Ah - but do they have young cute girls with long pink hair and blonde vixens riding motormbikes chasing after them? Says the guy who...oh never mind - you know AAAAAAAAAAANYWAYS!! STOP FIGHTING AND ASKING EACHOTHER TO LEAVE!! This thread should be a welcoming place to everyone. If you LOVE Bassara - then you should emulate him and want to move the hearts of your enemies! So let Agent One stay and post - and make him feel welcome! Or I'll eat you. Growl. Roar. Come on guys - be nice to Agent One. Humor him and get him involved and be happy he's involved himself. BOMBA! Pete

You know - I actually don't blame the engineers at Hasbro/Takara that much. It's not their fault. The fault lies in the whole fake "Transformers is about change" philosophy that Hasbro made up when it became abundantly clear that the franchise never stopped changing and when their marketing people made a strategic long term decision to ditch continuity in favor of rebooting the franchise roughly once every year. I just read the interview on Seibertron.com where the Editor of Transformers Ongoing makes the Orwellian statement that ongoing is not a reboot and actually makes the argument that the different look of the characters is because Transformers can change the way they look, and they just keep doing it depending on what comic book you're holding, but that the characters remain the same. Lame. It's a reboot. Every single Transformers story that has come out since Beast Machines has basically been a "what if?" story - it's almost like the MO is thus: 1) Design new toys 2) Make up new story by asking "what if" and filling in the blanks after that. What if Optimus Prime quit, died, got cancer, ate pizza, learned to pee, turned into a monkey instead of a truck, flew to Mars, got married, had to fight Spike Witwicky, teamed up with Megatron, painted himself black...etc etc And the designs are so rushed in order to get the new product range out that at every step of the way there's compromises being made. And therefore, everything only vaguely resembles everything else in all the mediums and there's no unified plot - and never has been in all the years of TFs existance (remember how the Marvel comics had nothing to do with the cartoon). So really - when designers sit down to design a Transformer - they are looking at making something that above all has to sell within the next 12 months. This is also why most of the time somebody from marketing says "give them a gimmick! Remember the gimmick!" and a uniform gimmick is stupidly incorporated into every line - has been since Armada really, although it kindo f started with the spark crystals in Beast Wars, or Transmetals and their "tripple transformation." This would all work out just fine if you just kept making up new characters like Macross does. But sadly, part of Hasbro's marketing strategy relies on BRAND RECOGNITION - and to that effect Optimus Prime, Starscream, Soundwave, Megatron, etc etc etc have to be eternal. They must always be there in every cartoon in every toy line - because the trademark must be preserved and because it helps with brand recognition. This is all a function of the American domestic market. Hasbro is NOT about to start competing with Bandai's SOCs and Yamato's Macross, Bumblegum Crisis or other lines. It's NOT. Why? Because they are marketing to a totally different demographic and the two have actually nothing in common. Where they cross over is with people my age who grew up on one and came into the other and therefore are driven by sentiment to have both - unless, like me, they decide Transformers has ceased being interesting and get rid of/stop collecting Transformers. But in terms of the general population - Hasbro doesn't care about otaku, Transformers is not anime. It's just robot fodder for the kiddies. I wonder - can someone who lives in Japan and has knowledge of this subject please tell us: How is the Transformers cartoon seen in Japan? Who watches it? Is it even considered anime? What category would it fall under? Pete

Well, technically Bassara is working on it already in episode 2, but I guess you can generally say so Personally, I like Submarine Street better It has more fun in it... oh...on that note... You know what we should start thinking about? ---> this: it CAN'T be coincidence what songs Bassara sings and when he sings them. In episode 1, he's singing Planet Dance, which is kind of a funky dance tune. He wants the enemy to party - he wants to show them - hey guys! Stop shooting and start dancing! It's fun! Having failed, he starts work on a new song. And he gets pestered - what are you doing? Why are you doing this? Why do you sing to the enemy in battle? And his new song - My Soul For You - is kind of a melancholic and sombre answer to this question. It's actually a total 360 change in singing tactics - it's also very emo. It's like ...WHAT?! YOU WON'T DANCE AND GROVE WITH ME!? FINE! THEN TAKE MY SOUL!!!!!!! Bassara, I venture to say, is a bit annoyed at his detractors and so he tries to pour his heart out to them in My Soul for You. That doesn't work on many people - except some girls and (thanks for noting it Gubaba) FANS of Kings/Queens and Mosaic. Now... this is good. Let's keep track of what songs Bassara sings, when he sings them, and what circumstances cause him to think them up. Certainly I think we can say that a bit of frustration mixed with despair led to the switch from Planet Dance to My Soul For You ? Pete

That's a very cool post. Thank you for sharing that information. Very interesting stuff. So I guess I DID learn something thanks to this crazy thread after all. Some more questions for you Ghost Train: 1. Can you please tell us about methods of effective and cost-efficient quality control that you learned about? Is EVERY product tested for quality, or rather is there some way to refine the production process so that you KNOW that your product will fall within the frame of the bell curve and you'll achieve result X? 2. In terms of mass produced items, is the idea that tests are run on a dummy product and once the dummy is refined, then it's just slammed out and nobody bothers to check individual items? Thanks for sharing! Pete

Ghostbusters references are always welcome Besides, you'd only need to watch 1 episode a week And just look at how buff Bassara is It's obvious he works out just like you (and me thanks to your inspiration for that matter) However - even if it led to mass hysteria - I would welcome it After all, a thread without nay-sayers is no fun! Pete

Actually - not quite, insofar as Mylene's definition of success is concerned. It's FAR more complex than that, although we won't see it until a couple of episodes later. But, I would like to remind you that when Mylene is doing the singing, she's just as "egotistical" and uppity as Bassara about it, and - she quits the band over it. Rey even tells Bassara to "go get her back!" and Bassara ends up having to chase after her to try to recover her. See - my theory is that actually, Mylene and Bassara have ARTISTIC differences; not only differences stemming from art vs. professionalism. And this is another stereotype that is just taken for granted - but in fact, Mylene does lead vocals on a number of moving beautiful songs and she has her own style. And she's pretty dedicated to it. A final point - we need to factor in that artists aren't always rational insofar as their creativity is concerned. Music is, after all, the burning heart of passion, not the cool head of reason. In any event - to me it's all more reasons why this show is more complex and mature than people give it credit for. Pete

Short and sweet I figured it might be good to complement Shiroth's Quotes/Screen caps with another category. So...starting now, not only will Shiroth select the Quote of the Episode, but I'll happily chip in and select: MYLENE BUTT-SHOT OF THE EPISODE: I wonder what fantastic butt shots episode 4 will bring us? Pete

I kind of figured that - but since all of page 1 is about him vehemently telling us that his topic is NOT about those buzzwords... it ends up being funny I think Eugimon is right - we need a permanent thread called "I HATE YAMAT!/YAMATO SUCKS BALL!" -- it can be kind of like the newbie thread - a place for people to go to voice all of their various imagined grievances. I say "imagined grievances" specifically because the Toy forum HAS a serious thread for serious grievences called "What's wrong with my Yamato, Bandai, etc. " That's the place for serious people who have real problems to ask about them and discuss them. So we need a thread for people who have never handled any Yamato products, or who have two, or who bought one, had it break and freaked, or who just don't like Yamato, to vent or not... Pete

Eugimon - that's the third time you've writen something that made me smile in this thread Thank you. Well according to the topic starter, if I understand the last page of this thread correctly, he never said that Yamato should make valkyries like transformers, although that's what he's saying, except that it's not. What he's really saying is that Yamato should use the same materials and methods that...presumably...are used by Hasbro...to make Transformers. It's a fine distinction which can only be made by the topic starter who has kindly tolerated the inability of some of us to grasp this distinction. Pete

I would like to take this chance to defend kit speculators, since I am an avid defender of the phenomena of free exchange of goods and services, and one of the aspects of this phenomena is speculation. First of all, remember please that the value of all goods and services is purely subjective and effectively maleable depending on a variety of factors. There is no guarantee that by "hoarding" kits you will ever get a return on your investment, let alone see some gargantuan profits. Second of all, in the case of ebay sellers and the like, you need to keep in mind that often times it is the market that dictates the supremely high prices we sometimes see on some collectables. Now, think back to when old Valkyrie used to sell for thousands of Dollars, or old original G1 Transformers for hundreds. That was rampant speculation and 'hoarding' and trying to get as much money as possible out of people. But the ONLY reason it was possible was because supply was way smaller than demand. And guess what happened? What happened was that Hasbro woke up from its' slumber of the late 80s, early 90s and started to produce Transformers and take their franchise seriously. What happened was that Yamato got into making Macross toys that we all now love. Why did it happen? Certainly it had a tad bit to do with all of the profits that were being made in a market where the demand far outweighed the supply. Profits always serve as a signal to potential investors that a certain venue is beneficial to take. The high profit margins that were created in the short range by speculators hording a finite supply in view of a larger and growing demand served as a signal that there was a big market for nostalgia products and for anime related goods. The dynamic is no different in the model kit business. If a model kit is popular enough - it will get reissued. However, more than likely, given the specific nature of the model kit industry, it will get an upgrade. In the meantime nobody is forcing anybody to bid up the prices of pre-existing, rare kits. The speculators serve a useful social function, contrary to what people may think. Namely: it is THEY who take the initial risk on themselves to see whether or not something is profitable in the long run. For every speculator who makes a one time short term big profit from some kit or other collectible, there are ten speculators who sustain losses and end up just having a bunch of crap that nobody wants sitting around that economic circumstances force them to give away at a loss. But if not for the speculators - companies would never have a good inclination of what is really really popular out there - and of what to invest in in terms of future production. Speculation gives us a window into how strong demand for a certain item is. Being able to check out the "insane" prices that some things on ebay go for is a great way to gage consumer demand in real terms of just how high an interest there is in something. Naturally the resentment against speculators has nothing to do with justice, nor does it have anything to do with wanting people to have kits to build rather than to hold. No - the resentment against speculators is all about people wanting to get something that doesn't belong to them in return for a lower price than it is being offered for. What these people fail to grasp is that whenever a good is out of the price range of a vast majority of folks who nevertheless clamor for it - then this is an incentive for companies to come along and increase supply and make the good affordable for all the people who want it. Without the speculators, there would be no incentive to do this and products that are out of the financial reach of "regular folks" would remain so - forever. Finally - on a per-unit basis, there is absolutely no marginal utility derived or lost if a kit gets built, doesn't get built, gets eaten, or whatever. It doesn't matter. Sometimes a kit breaks when someone is building it, sometimes a kit is faulty. People acquire goods and do different things with them; kits included. Hm...what else? Well - to wrap it up: I don't see a point in scheming to defeat kit collectors/speculators. Why would you wat to waste your time doing that? If the kit is very popular and selling very well, it will get another production run. If it's not, but YOU just like it very much and yet its' price goes up because there's just enough people to drive up the price but not enough to make it worth producing again... well - tough. It happens. But in general, fighting speculators is counterproductive IMO. Pete

Actually, it irritates ME. Because "Robotech" is NOT a "classic Japanese anime series." Please point me towards the original "classic Japanese anime series" named Robotech. Please show me someone, anyone in Japan who remembers watching "Robotech" alongside other classic Japanese anime series like Gundam, Ideon, Orgus etc etc... And even if they do have a script - I DON'T CARE. I am not a Robotech fan. They could make seven live action movies in the next year and win fifty oscars and make a trillion dollars - I don't care. I've been a fan of Transformers since I was 4 years old - and not even 26 years of being an active Transformers fan could get me to go watch ROTF. I was never a fan of Robotech and I am, due to everything HG has done, an avid anti-fan of Robotech - so there's no way I'm going to go see that movie. And the fact that they call it a "classic Japanese anime" just proves my point that these people do not know what anime is, have no clue what Japanese anime is, and use the term to mean something completely different from what real otaku understand it to be. Pete

Wait... now I noticed the sub-heading of this topic is "make Valks like Transformers." But the topic starte berated me that this was not what he meant and that he is not proposing to make Valks like Transformers. I'm very confused now Pete

Yeah! Otherwise how do I know that it's worth clicking!? Pete

I've handled almost every single Transformer that has ever been produced. My re-issues were the last to be sold; before that I have owned pretty much everything except Japanese G1 Victory toys and a couple of other super rare items. "with the exception of Armada and Energon" is a mouth full, considering that those two lines came after the radical advance that was BW - they were a major step backwards; Armada especially (not talking about Unicron and Minicons, but everything else - yes). However - as has been sometimes pointed out to me, correctly - I cannot demand of a 10 dollar TF what I demand of a hundred dollar Yamato. So of course it's not right to fault Transformers for being total crap on their own merits. That said, I do think the movie line has been terrible and that Transformers have gotten progressively worse. There's very little accuracy, less innovation, and what's the point of the intricate movie designs if you can't mimic them in toy form ? But... you're right - that is a seperate topic. Lots of people are posting some interesting things about the build quality issues regarding Yamato and toys in general - but this thread is sort of wierd because there's no way NOT to go off topic. It is actually NECESSARY to go off topic to make heads or tails of it I'm happy with what Yamato have done. Also, I am certain they are always trying to use better quality materials. I mean - think about it - do you think that these discussions we fans are having are not had amongst engineers and designers? Remember those pictures of Shoji Kawamorii at Bandai working on the VF-25? What do you think they were discussing? The weather? I'm sure the people making these have gone over all the options and in th end they always have to compromise and make something. Now - if that something is the version 2.0 VF-1 from Yamato - I'm impressed. What mecha anime forum would ever make fun of u for wanting line art accuracy in Macross toys? Judging by Bandai's Soul of Chogokin line, not to mention their super accurate PG and MG Gundams (and heck, even the HGs are excellent representations) - I think the MAJORITY of anime mecha fans demand line art accuracy. As for "robot community" - I interpret that to mean Transformers? This is hard to believe as well since, actually, Transformers fans have been shouting and desiring SCREEN ACCURATE toys since Beast Wars. And Hasbro/Takara-Tomy DO try to deliver. I mean, Animated was pretty screen accurate. The movie lines have not been. So who exactly is making fun of us? The nose cone on the VF-1 is NOT bent forward at all. That's like saying that the SDF-1 bends at the knees because it SEEMS to be doing that in a screen cap in DYRL. We had this discussion before. Line art and in-motion fluid animation are two different things. Pete