VFTF1

Ok - having read this thread: http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/re...p;pagenumber=10 I am begining to formulate a hypothesis about these opinions that we've been discussing in the last few posts, initially brought up by Gubaba point our attention to it. Here's my hypothesis: We are Otaku. They are American pop culture fans. I know this is a bit of an overgeneralization - but reading the above linked post I get the feeling these are just guys who have ZERO real interest in Japanese anime. Whenever there's a reference in the discussion, it's always Star Wars, and whenever they say "anime" they think of the American anime market, which is NOT - I would venture - what we think of. They are a totally different galaxy, and that is why we never can communicate on the same wave lengths. Lots of people here watch tons of original Japanese anime, lots of folks prefer subs, and lots of folks want to be fans of things that are happening in Japan, and not necessarily of the filtered versions that trickle into America - if at all. Meanwhile, the dudes over there - they are just regular nice American popculture fans who have a fond place in their heart for the 80s cartoons. But they seem to have never moved beyond that - and actually gotten into anime. They are not Otaku. I'm not saying that to judge them as worse than us - but I'm saying it's impossible and pointless to argue with them because they are coming from a different place then we are - a place where there is no Gundam, no Ideon, no Zambot 3, no Haruhi Suzumiya, no Macross 7, where DYRL was Clash of the Bionoides sometimes, but most of the time DYRL just WASN'T even there. Where Megazone is a failed Robotech Movie. This is why we fight and do not understand eachother. I mean - just look what Kevin McKeever says in what has to be the best line illustrating this point: So - notice please that the tendency to make wierd comparissons of an anime to things like Disney, Pixar etc comes from the top. "Every film/TV/Anime company..." and then he goes on to draw an analogy to...Star Trek. This is something rampant in the RT community. They keep drawing analogies to Star Wars, Star Trek - live action shows that have NOTHING TO DO WITH ANIME. That would be like me trying to judge the failure or success of Macross by comparing it to Ang Lee's movies, or to the Seven Samuarii. I mean - of course you can make cross-genre comparissons - but these guys do it as if the genres were the SAME - aka - "science fiction." But as WE well know, 'science fiction' and 'anime' are NOT always the same. Asimov is not anime. Dune is not anime. Star Trek is not anime. And anime is not always science fiction. But the reason these comparissons are always de-rigur at Robotech.com is because they DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT JAPANESE ANIME. When they use the term anime THIS is what they are thinkin (again Kevin McKeever gives us a good view): THAT is "anime" for Robotech fans. THAT. Namely Central Park Media, Newtype Magazine, Geneon, Anime Inside and ADV. Not Gainax, not Tomino or Anno or Mikimoto. Not Bandai and Kadokowa. Now, the fact that all of these companies that Kevin cites, not to mention HG, all try to make their money by marketing Japanese anime in America after repackaging it and "westernizing it" in one way, shape or form is - to them - totally immaterial. For Robotech fans, when you say that an anime is "from Japan" that's the equivalent of saying "you Macintosh was made in China." See - it's Macintosh, the American company, which is what counts. The "made in China" part always brings to mind visions of sweat shops. Never once to people think that that means there are skilled and well educated workers and engineers in China and that there is a great economic climate with low taxes and no unnecessarily high costs of labor in China. Nope. It's just sweat shops. Same with "Japanese anime." It's just the "sweat shops" are over there in Japan - that's where soulless, faceless Japanese people make this stuff, but it only becomes NORMAL and WORTH marketing and watching after companies like HG and the bankrupt "anime" companies Kevin cited "westernize it." So - again - we, as original Macross fans and by and large dedicated Gaijin-Otaku, are in a different universe from them. For us, Anime is what is happening in Japan right now, it's not what is happening to middle men and filter companies on the American domestic market. None of the companies Kevin cited have ever actually MADE an anime of note- not that I've heard of at least. I HAVE heard, however, that they brought over some good anime. And for some people - like me - when something good is "brought over" it makes me interested in the country and culture that it's "brought" from - and I want to see it as the Japanese see it and enjoy it as real otaku do. For other people, like these Robotech fans - it's just enough that it's "cool." They have no clue about otaku culture in Japan and to them it's just "made in Japan= made in Chinese sweat shop" - and they remain blisffuly ignorant, convinced that everything creative and cool surely must be made in the USA by the likes of HG which thought up Robotech (Carl Macek) and just happened to get the anime drawn by those Japanese guys who apparently draw for cheap like the Chinese make t-shirts and sweat pants we can get in Walmart for cheap.... That's the way I think it is. Pete

Re: Gubaba's quote ... Yeah...I read that thinking... Ok - so this guys' range of knwoledge in terms of animation is limited to vauge memories of the Care Bears, Gumy Bears, He-Man and Robotech. I gather that's what he means when he notes that prior to Robotech, all animated shows were "comedies." And see - this is what happens when you allow a filter to "bring you" your anime. You spend 20 frickin' years under the delusion that "anime" is the two or three things HG brought over AND THAT'S IT. And you live under the futher delusion that prior to even the Macross Saga - there was nothing but Dennis the Menis. It's an interesting argument if only because it shows the narrow range and radical limits of people's perception when they discuss this stuff. And comparing it to Star Wars etc....that's totally daft. There's no point in it. There was a post somewhere at some point in MW where Graham wrote something to the effect of "I don't want a live action Macross" (I'm quoting from memory so if I botched this, sorry) - but I remember the argument being that actually - anime as a medium is just fine. Not EVERYTHING needs to be made into a live action movie just because it "can." In fact - it can't. There will always be a place for books, comic books, movies, and anime as unique mediums. But...well...whatever... just another Robotech Fan who needs to google "anime" and discover a list of anime produced in Japan between...I dunno...1975 and today to realize how much he's missing out on. Way to go "bringing anime to America" HG - with fans like those...who needs naysayers? I mean - seriously - if the argument is "Robotech is cool because unlike Gummy Bears it deals with death and war" then why even bother debunking that? Pete

Ghost Train: That sounds fascinating - I'm very interested. Could you please write more about your studies. Technically theGunny is right that it's all lovely theory, but in the end as long as product is moving, that's al that counts... But I have my own counter-theory to that - namely that due to the internet, we are seeing economic activity catering more and more to niche markets in every field, where there is high demand for precision and accuracy because the focus is on one thing. As for Yamato reaching the 3.4 to 1 million ratio - Ghost Train: what if your company doesn't produce 1 million pieces? Yamato don't do a million pieces per valk - how does it look when you are producng in far lower quantities - like a thousand times lower? As for long answers and Tolstoy: I only read one piece by Tolstoy. I can't remember what it was called. It was pretty stupid. It was about a guy who owned land and was paranoid about robber and tresspassers so he patroled the land's perimeter without taking a break for food and water and ended up dying. Tolstoy's apparently brilliant message was that if you "have too much" then you end up wasting your life "defending it" which is why, apparently, it would have been better for everyone to have the proverbial 40 acres and a mule each equally. To me, it was such a ridiculous story that it prejudiced me forever against wanting to read anything by Tolstoy. Of course, maybe I'm wrong. Somebody might be a big Tolstoy fan and suggest something to me - I'll look into it. I read that piece I mentioned in high school and haven't wanted to touch anything else by him ever since. Ah - as for long answers...well... I guess I'm not too god at being short and sweet Pete

On that note, I read that Gainax was founded in 1984. Why do I mention this? Because around the same time that Harmony Gold were buisy agressively moving to gain market share in accordance with a strategy whose range seemed to be oriented towards next week, the world of anime was changing in a revolutionary way. There is just so much that HG didn't predict. They really are the American version of Chinese bootleggers. All they see is what is popular this week, and they desperately want to siphon off some profits from it. They don't set trends, they don't think big... they don't think ahead. The only reason they did Shadow Chronicles is for the same reason they did Robotech: Back then, they looked around and said "wow. Hasbro, Matel and all these hotshot companies are making money taking crappy animation, cheap asian toys, and putting them together. We need to do some of that!" Now, they looked around as said "wow, Hasbro is making money by taking all these childhood memories embedded in the culture and riding the nostalgia wave - we need to do that." Sadly - the nostalgia wave hit its' crescendo in 2007 with the premiere of the Transformers Movie. That was its' END. It is now over. We've happily relived our childhood. Meanwhile, Hasbro was also planting the seeds of a future nostalgia wave with the Unicron Trilogy, which contributed to killing the recent one - but that's beside the point. The point is - HG was late to the party again. I would suggest they try being creative rather than simply following trends. But that won't happen. Pete

I agree. And to further answer my own question regarding filler, since no one else is stepping up the plate... Let me venture another theory that builds on what VF25SS noted about stock-footage, and also what Gubaba earlier noted as the irritating fact that when Fire Bomber plays music...the animation doesn't really show them playing music very much. I think that part of the reason why we get the impression that it's all just repetitive and bland is because the animation sometimes falls short of the ambitions of the story. That is to say - I might be wrong about this, but in Macross Frontier, even if songs were repeated, I have the impression that the animation to the songs was always fresh. There was no stock footage of Ranka singing, and if there was then it was used so subtley that I missed it. Same with Sheryl. And what footage we did see was BRILLIANTLY choreographed and BEAUTIFULLY animated. Can't say that about Macross 7. The animation in Macross 7 is closser to SDFM TV than it is to Macross Plus, DYRL or Macross Frontier - which is to say it's a bit slower in pace, and leaves more to the imagination. In terms of the music, this did not inhibit SDFM TV because Minmey sings slow rock. Smooth rock. But Bassara, his music is head banging stuff - and yet the animation often times just fails to capture the rhythm of the music and indeed the use of stock footage when he sings, flies, fights etc tends to give you the impression that even if it's a different song - the movements are familiar. And maybe that's where the impression of filler comes from? I'm not going to defend Macross 7 as the pinnacle of animation. However, I do venture the opinion that it is a great story, and overall it is well presented. If we could watch SDFM TV without being unhinged by the limitations of animation from 1982 - I think we should try to apply the same standard to Macross 7? .. Pete

This is true. Here is the cause: 1. 2. Those are contradictory. Your topic is self-contradictory. "Build a Valk like a Transformer" contradicts "I don't mean its a dam [sic] transformers [sic]" But ok - I understand that what you do mean is this: And this: However - this is also illogical. "Use the same plastic and uilding methods" as what? As a Transformer. This is pretty much the same as "build a Valk like a Transformer." This brings us back to the following points which you fail to address: and Eugimon also brought up some other examples: But I think I sort of understand what you're getting at when you write this: So...you have a problem with...the plastic quality? And you would like the plastic quality to be more like "Transformers?" There are several problems here: a) Transformers do not have uniform plastic quality (as has already been mentioned) b) What exactly is wrong with the plastic quality of Yamato Valkyrie? The QC issues with regard to some of the Valkyrie have nothing to do with plastic quality and more to do with engineering. The exploding arms on the VF-OA wasn't a case of bad plastic quality but just bad QC. The hair-line fracture in the new version 2.0s was not a case of bad plastic quality but bad assembly QC. Generally, I don't really see how Yamato has a "plastic quality problem" The vast majority of Yamato products have good plastic. It is not brittle, it does not crack, snap or pop (no Rice Crispies inference intended). With all due respect - what is the topic? The topic title is "My suggestion/please read and reply" - so - the topic is your suggestion, which I've read and attempted to reply to. If my reply is incoherent, that is because the suggestion is incoherent. You start off by saying that Valkyire should be made like Transformers; then you clarify that you don't mean make them like Transformers, but just use the same materials and methods as making Transformers. But when confronted with the fact that the materials for making Transformers are not uniform and with the fact that the method for making Transformers is not, as in the case of Valkyrie, an attempt at replicating precise line art from an anime in plastic form, but rather the design of functional toys that vaguely resembles innacurate cartoons - you ignore these points and dismiss comparissons with Transformers as off topic. Yet you yourself introduced the comparisson in the first place, thereby making it part of the topic. So I'm confused. What is the topic? Pete

Yeah, that's a good point. I mean - remember, Michael Bay didn't know ANYTHING about Transformers before he was brought on board. Now it's concievable that there are equally clueless, casual Robotech fans at WB or in other HW studios that also don't have the faintest idea about anime or anything. This is especially true insofar as Holywood has been going through a kind of "let's make that cool cartoon/comic I remember vaguely from when I was 8 years old" kick over the past few years. Not saying that's bad - and heck, I'm part of the demographic that fueled the kick - but often times the people running the show really don't know anything about the thing they're working on. Given how the majority of Robotech fans who have internet access seem to still find themselves confused about what's what... I can imagine lots of suits being even more in the dark about all this Pete

You fail to consider one thing: There are NO Transformer toys that are line-art accurate, and there is no such thing, really, as "line art" in the Transformers universe. Therefore, each and every Transformer toy is a loose interpretation of an animation design or a movie design (in the case of Movie toys). Being able to produce a toy that is a loose interpretation of a design which itself is a loose interpretation ad infinitum means that they toy maker is not restricted by the need to be faithful to line art. Yamato's valkyrie have, from the begining, been designed with the explicit purpose of being 100% accurate to the line art from DYRL (and then Macross Plus). It is physically impossible for them to therefore be built along the same lines as a Transformer because Transformers are designed PRIMARILY as functional toys that are supposed to generally and vaugely resemble something in a badly drawn cartoon. Meanwhile, Yamato valkyrie are supposed to resemble "real robots" drawn in the greatest work of animation in human history - and perfectly transform to boot. The version 1.0 1/60s got the line art down pretty well, but were not perfect transformation. the 1/48s were perfect transformation. The version 2.0 1/60s use CAD and are perfect transformation. Transformers don't need to do any of that because their purpose is to be used as throw away toys. NEXT: You write as though all Transformers are always built of the same material. Not true. The plastic for Animated was quite different from the plastic used in other lines - just to give an example. And the original Generation 1 cars were aso known for QC issues - rooftops snapping off, the figures breaking at the waste etc etc. They were also delicate designs - at least the diaclones were. Later Transformers were less delicate, and even less accurate in either mode. NEXT: Transformers, being for children, are also made in adherance with child safety laws; and since they are made primarily for the USA, they need to be mindful of American safety laws. Yamato makes Valkyrie for the adult Japanese market - why would you want them to make Valkyrie "like Transformers" (aka be bound by child safety laws and suddenly you wouldn't have com-link antenas on the valks, the noses would be blunt etc etc etc) FINALLY: So what you're actually proposing is way too vague. Yamato obviously uses the best materials they can and strive to make a figure that meets some pretty high criteria. They suceed in making the best transforming mecha on the market today if you look at all factors combined. Takara-Tomy should actually take a cue from Yamato who have managed to radically progress in their work over their years while Transformers get more and more sloppy and shoddy. Look at Yamato's progress from the 1/60 version 1s and the 1/72s to the v 2.0 line and the Macross Plus 1/60s of today. The progress is amazing and shows they've really been working hard. Meanwhile, in that same time span, Transformers - which with the onset of Beast Wars was at the forefront of making highly articulated transforming robots, has degenerated in every way: the robots are less poseable, uglier, made of cheaper material, have more kibble, look nothing like their screen counter parts and have effectively obviously been cheapened to the point where your generic modern Transformer is no different from a cheap knock off of a Transformer - and in fact notice how KO makers have few problems replicating Transformers which are easy to replicate precisely because they use 10 year old technology. Yamato: please ignore this request Pete (happy he finally got to rant against TFs again! ) Pete

That's like the total opposite of sexy feminine Penelope Cruize... It looks like I-will-trip-and-fall-over-and-can't-even-land-on-my-ass-but-rather-only-become-a-jumbled-ball-of-parts-Gundam ... But it just goes to show that there's a lot about Gundam I don't know... Pete

I think they'd be for sale and HG would try to sell them to pay off its' eventual debts - if not HG, then the liquidator, or whatever the dude who sells of assets of a bankrupt company is called. They'd sell it to the highest bidder. Question is - how much is it really worth? My guess: not much. Pete

Penelope Gundam...is that like Minmey Gaurd only with pictures of Penelope Cruize in lingerie? If so - I'm all for! Pete

I agree - with the sole exception of Gurren Lagann. That thing deserves to be marathoned. It is simply impossible NOT to go straight to the next episode. And the story actually flows much better if you watch it straight through than piecemiel. The only excuse for not making it through all of Gurren Lagann in one sitting is heart failure or just plane passing out from exhaustion. Anyways...still waiting for those example of "filler" Meanwhile - if anybody actually has anything to add about Episode 3 - that's the episode we're technically "on" right now Pete

Thanks save. That is inspirational and awesome! Pete

So I guess this isn't a good time for me to be wanting Bandai to do a version 2.0 Guncannon? Pete

Streaming meeming - I'm still gonna download if I can. Will start on Thursday and get as much as possible of it and marathon away. I really did like what I saw on my phone. Great music, great look... the android/robot people (at least I think that's what they are...I was watching on my cell phone so can't be sure) are creepy and intriguing at the same time. The Wanted Captain Harlock poster... The only thing that dissapoints me is the lack of toys for this series. I know that there are model trains for the Galaxy Express and some space ships... but I am sad that there are no figures (poseable). Then again - there are like NEVER any poseable figures. It's like mecha sells well, but people don't...? Thank god Haruhi at least has poseable figures. I don't know if I'd be able to continue living if it weren't for all the lovely figmas! They're so cute! Now if only Strike Witches could get the Figma or Revoltech treatment.... Pete

I'm trying to just interpret the movie based on the pictures on this page... So...Ranka is revealed to be a cross dressing 30-something year old Japanese man? As for Kawamori being 50 - my dad just turned 63 and looks like he's 40 tops, so it happens. My (ex?)girlfriend hit 43 and looks 35. Me, however, I'm 30 and I look like I'm 40, so I guess it goes both ways Anyways, I will probably look forward to seeing this someday. I hope the economy improves so I can one day visit Japan and watch a cool movie like this one They seem to have plenty of them... Pete

Well in all fairness the overkill is a result of the design being 30 years old and them making a big deal of the 30th anniversary of the original Gundam. I personally am happy with it since I just watched MSG this year for the first time, liked it, and get a slew of MSG models that are all much better than previous years' offerings. So - good timing on my part. Besides, I'm not in favor of Bandai rushing things. I like their slow pace. The MG Exia comes to us 2 years after Gundam OO premiered. That's a long time - an eternity in normal marketing terms. But Bandai has a great brand, and brands transcend marketing cycles - so they can take their sweet time to give us something special... As for the "new" series of Gunpla in 2010 - based on someone asking about it offhand elsewhere, I suddenly got the idea that maybe Bandai will offer intricate models of the ships in Gundam? Mastergrade Ships? I dunno. Those might be fun. Or they might be boring. It all depends I'd certainly like a White Base. Pete

Hah hah hah. If HG can see that Sentinels "exhausted its' product cycle" ... then why can't they see that Robotech "exhausted its' product cycle" some 20+ years ago? I mean - let's face it - HG is an example of one of the biggest failures in business history. It should be taught in business 101: how to f*ck up big time 101.... If HG had played it right, they could have right now been the Hasbro to Big West's Takara. For all of my prefering subbed anime to dubbed and not really caring one way or another if Macross gets on American TV, HG could have becom a big time distributor of Anime. The lame "because syndication forced us to lengthen the series" excuse is..well..lame. They should not have done that because it forever tied their hands. They should have just pushed Macross SDFM TV as direct to video and waited out the stupid cartoon wars of the mid-80s. After all, by the 90s, you had cable TV and things like Cartoon channel - those guys wouldn't give a butt sore about 'syndication requiring a longer series" - they would just put SDFM TV on. Then HG could have brought over Macross Plus, maybe even 7 and right now they'd be bringing over Frontier. But see - other than dubbing, you also need experts in the MUSIC INDUSTRY to do Macross justice. Or you just bring over official subs and be done with it. I mean - the fact is, Macross is hugely complicated to "bring over" as a dub because if you're going to dub into english, then you have to dub the music - but the music is EVERYTHING in a Macross series. So you'd need people who really knew what they were doing in terms of music and animation and those people would not be the mediocre Reba West with her "We Can Win" tune - although of course it's not so much her "fault" as it is the producers at HG who brough her in thinking her songs would be fine for Minmey. But instead they took what they were seeing as the quick and easy route to profits - do like Hasbro does with Transformers or Kenner with Gobots or Matel with He Man! Just put it on TV and blast out cheap chinese produced toys and you've got money. The problem is - Harmony Gold apparently didn't realize that there 's a HUGE difference between He Man and Macross. You CAN'T market Macross in the same way you market a cartoon for 5 year olds. You can't market anime in the same way. They tried to shoe horn it into the children's cartoon/toy market - and that just doesn't work. So many mistakes. So much waste. But if they let it die back then, they would be heros right now for making the attempt and maybe they would also be able to keep working on bringing anime to America without all of the crap history they now have. As it stands, they made a bad move and haven't let it die. Pete

To be honest - I also wonder why they didn't just continue the Sentinels. The only answer I can come up with is "because they actually don't own the copyright for the character designs of Rick, Lisa, Max and Minmey" Or the issue is sticky enough that they decided to purge themselves of the problem altogether. Pete

Well - to me this is a vague generalization, and it is easy to make if someone hasn't watched the series in a long time AND if someone marathoned the whole thing. I remembered when I marathoned M7, it all became one long jumble to me too. Now, I actually did not ever feel bored with any episode, but I do admit to not remembering at all what set them apart from eachother, because when you watch them one after the other, they do tend to melt into eachother, since actually the plot progresses with pretty rapid speed (but then again, so does Macross Frontier - in episode 4, we end the episode thinking that Ranka is just going to continue being a waitress with some dreams about singing.... by episode 5 we know she's on her way to stardom...but then we have a lull where she has trouble getting gigs and ends up advertising carrots...) - maybe the way they did it was more memorable. I admit that it's really hard to remember all the details in M7. But that's why this thread is dedicated to going episode by episode - and I think that it's been shown that the first three episodes are not filler. Now we move in three days to episode 4 - the Vampire episode... anyways - if anybody has more to offer than vague generalization about filler - please do. Although be warned - if it's a latter episode - then we'll get to it in due course - that is - if someone says "I think episode 9 is total filler" - then I suggest stating all the reasons, but maybe let's wait to address the opinion until we get there Hopefully nobody is going to come out and write "episode 29 is filler" because we're only on 3, and it'll take a while to get there But whatever - just make the case/argument and we'll go from there Pete

You guys are making it hard for me to watch lolis with panties shooting machines guns, what with all your high minded suggestions... I'll look into it, but for now I have a feeling I better focus on Galaxy Express 999 .... Pete

For internal frame Version 2.0 can't be beat. Although you can just as easily use GM 2.0 since it's the same frame. Pete

Patlabor is something I need to get around to as well... That said - just to follow up on JBO and Keith's advice.... Today, I have about 20 minutes to myself in the car before a class, so I go onto youtube on my mobile phone and checked out the first 10 minutes of episode 1 of Strike witches and the first 10 minutes of episode 1 of Galaxy Express 999. You can probably guess I'll be eagerly downloading the latter. Strike Witches didn't look all that bad - although it was a bit bizarre just how many panty shots they had. In fact, more crazy than the panty shots was that EVERYONE appears to wear panties without skirts - that is - everyone who is female. And it's just kind of the trendy thing to do apparently. If you're a girl, you just wear panties - no skirt, no pants, just skimpy tight panties... The battle scene with the Mugan-look-alike was well done. Great sound effects, great angles (and I'm not just talking about the panty shots), and generally ok. The witchcraft thing bothers me more than the panties. I guess it shouldn't since I'm not bothered by super robots, which are just pretty much the same principle.... But it still bothers me a bit, because I always find explicit witchcraft to be a cop out. That girl was bleeding and very wounded and then a blue light appears and hey presto she's cured. And I would guess that the witch powers only come when there is deep emotional concern? I dunno..since it was on my mobile phone, the subs were a little small for me to catch them all. I will probably watch this series eventually - especially if Figma or Kaiyodo come out with some Strike Witches. Over all - I like it. However... Galaxy Express 999 was just beautiful. I only saw the opening 10 minutes - but it is so delightful. The music, the sweeping galactic scope, the melancholy narration at the opening, it's so brooding, so 80s techno-punk... it's awesome. So I guess those are the two anime I'll be watching next. Pete

Ok, so here goes: That's a tangent in the main plot line - the main plot line is Bassara's dissapointment with himself because he can't find a sound that gets through to the hearts of the Other (aka enemies and humans alike). This episode is about Bassara's continuing quest for that sound. This is a misperception. Bassara DOES care about success and fame and business. He just happens to define success diferently - for him - success is finding a sound that moves peoples' hearts. He's very happy to move the hearts of the people at Super Nova (the concert that they took part in during this episode). He is not at all displeased at his success, nor does he mind the good business that this will bring for Fre Bomber. The key difference between Mylene and Bassara is that Mylene thinks that you need something OTHER THAN good music to succeed as a band. Bassara believes the key lies in finding the right sound. Bassara does NOT sit around mumbling "screw them - people won't listen to my song and I don't care they can all get wet." No. Bassara is actively shown to be working on new material after discovering that Planet Dance didn't get through to anybody. The ONLY reason he agrees to come to Super Nova (besides being slightly strong armed since they took his Valkyrie) is because Rey hands him the music that they'll sing during Super Nova and it turns out to be the song Bassara was working on. Where did Rey get it? Remember in episode 2 when Bassara goes to sing to the enemy, Rey sits down, takes Bassara's guitar, and plays the notes Bassara had written to my soul for you and says "this is pretty good" Rey probably decided then that they'd use the song in their next concert. In any event - it's totally not true that Bassara doesn't care about success, and the argument between him and Mylene is one of means, not ends. Mylene believes you need to worry about marketing, meeting the right people, getting invited to the right shows, booking the right concerts...Bassara meanwhile believes with all his heart that he can find music so amazing that it'll move people's hearts without having to go through all the hoopla. If I can use an analogy: Remember episode 5 of Macross Frontier - when Ranka sang in Folmo she, unlike the Zentran singing by the stairs, moved people's hearts. Bassara doesn't have that power here - not yet at least. Even at the end of the episode - notice how it's not like there's a throng of thousands cheering him on. There's like 5 people there clapping - everybody else evacuated! People panicked - very few people stayed to listen to his song. Those that stayed became his fans - but he only won over a couple of folks. That was enough to satisfy him and give him motivation to continue. If NO BODY had stayed he would have been down in the dumps. He came out of the VF-19 Kai visibly depressed at his failure. And Rey had to point out that some people stuck around and were now giving him an ovation, and THEN those people had to specifically tell him they were moved by his music. So totally not true about Bassara not caring. That's a complete fabrication - it's one of the anti-M7 talking points that has developed into a stereotype that feeds on itself and constantly polarizes fans of Macross - and it diminishes even Bassara's supporters, because they have to be like "yeah, he doesn't care about people - but his song is great!" Bassara totally cares. Again - look at the title of his song. "My Soul for You." I mean - how much more blatant can it be that Bassara wants to offer himself to save people? This I totally don't understand. It IS Mylene's fault for making him hit them. Just like in a couple of episodes it'll all be Gamlin's fault for making Bassara use his missiles. Bassara doesn't mind when aliens are shooting at him. Bassara doesn't mind when Kings and Queens are trying to beat him up - he sings in the hope that his singing will stop the violence. What Bassara DOES mind is when someone else is in danger. Mylene got in his way. She should have left him alone and let him sing. As things stand - she keeps barging into his room, banging on his door, pestering him, and getting in his way. The battle takes place because Gepelrich wanted the Macross 7 infiltrated by vampires. The reason WHY comes up later - it's because of her Yume. It's not a tacked on battle. It's not just there so Bassara can sing. The enemy are on a specific mission - one that we don't fully understand, but we do know something went down - namely that City 7 was infilrated. So it's not just a "tacked on" battle - that's like saying that battles in SDFM TV were all tacked on just so the heros can face some danger. In a sense, ok - yes. Fine. True - but then again, they weren't pointless, they pushed the plot along and were usually strategically motivated or had some other reason behind them. Same here. As for getting Kings and Queens to like him "Bassara is so uncool" is not exactly a statement of extatic love. They are amazed by what he DOES...so I would say the learn to respect him... But they don't explicitly love him... Um... But this sentence seems to stylistically equate SDFM and Macross Plus. I mean, let's face it, Macross Plus could have given a sinking feeling to people expecting "another SDFM" - but it had its' own unique charm. As for SDFM itself... I would say that Macross 7 is on par. I mean the plot develops at an equally slow pace as in SDFM TV. Heck - in the next episode, we even get parallels to Hikaru and Minmey who, towards the beginning of SDFM got stuck and lost in Macross together. Well, Bassara and Mylene end up the same way... There's plenty of homages in Macross 7 actually, but the series is also fresh and new enough that it's of course not "merely" an homage in any way... But I'm not sure why people would get a sinking feeling - I totally don't understand it. Unless of course it's because they ignore 90% of the dialogue and plot and compel themselves to believe that this episode is not different from the last two, and that all that ever happens is that aliens show up, Bassara sings to them, and Bassara and Mylene yell at eachother. But clearly that's not the case. I challenge anyone to name one episode of Macross 7 that is truely filler and that does not contain something essential to the plot and something unique and interesting that takes place only in that episode. I mean - I do agree that the large amount of epsiodes are kind of Soap Operatic - but that doesn't mean they're without substance. Agreed. And so far - there have been no specifics presented to uphold the contrary position that the episodes are filler, all the same and basically disposable. Although I'll grant Gubaba tried - but even he admited that his impression was due to him watching it RAW - aka not getting all of the dialogue. Well - guess what? When I tried watching "an episode" of Macross 7 before I'd ever seen the series - I had the same IMPRESSION. I clicked an episode on Youtube and it was just Bassara in his red Valkyrie singing, some kind of rainbow coming out of it, and some monster on the recieving end going "aaarrgggpplllflffsfsihg!!" And it seemed to me that just about every Youtube clip I saw was like that. But when you sit down and actually DO watch the series - as we are doing here - and don't marathon your way through it - then you see distinctions in each episode. Agreed So if you personally wouldn't call them filler episodes - then don't! Your reasons for not calling them that are, IMO, valid. Anyways - someone go ahead and point out a "filler" episode when we get to it - because I have yet to see one. Pete

I'll be back in a few hours to address all these various points I will say however that a girl I met at an anime convention in October turns out to also be watching Macross 7 for the first time and she loves it She even text messages me with pictures of Bassara, dreams of singing in Fire Bomber, loves their music and really really loves each and every consecutive episode and Bassara is like totally her hero So at least all is not lost! I'll be back later today to address everybody's concerns! Thanks for taking part! BOMBA! Pete