VFTF1

Rock and or Roll! That pic is awesome! You DO realize, however, anime52k8, that this means war When you posted the first pic with the 21 and the guitar, my 19 said "Show off. I could do better." But now that you've added the girls, Dyson's 1:60 scale pilot figure is poking me with a 1:60 scale knife "He learned it all from me! I can do better than Guld! I won't let him have the project! It's mine! I'll show him!" So...I'll try to come up with something - unless someone else beats me to it with their 19 Macross Plus PLUS: This Time, it's all about the Scantly Clad Girls: Coming soon... Pete

I think it was Devastator as in "all six of them together." Unless I'm blind and halucinating (always possible) that was Devastator coming out of the water, smashing through a bridge/railway line and going into a city to wreak havoc. Pete

I wish the internet would hurry up and progress to the point where we could have inter-active singing contests on Macross world. What with song being such an important element of Macross, it would be cool to have a "Listen to My Song!" thread where we could just stream or download members singing. Pete

But I think Zinjo was just saying that he would have preffered it if the three seperate anime were brought over under the umbrela of Robotech. Him using the word "fact" was - I think - just a kind of manner of speech. Like when someone says "I hate apples, in fact, they are disgusting" - doesn't mean it's really a fact... At least that's how I understood him. Also, nobody is blaming Macek in the sense of "ooo conspiracy of evil!" I think they are just saying - or at least I'm just saying - it would have been better, preferable (all IMO of course) if they hadn't changed the source material. That quote from Macek is in Robotech Art III, which I have and sounds pretty much as vapid as most of the other stuff he wrote. It basically can be interpretated as such: "This Japanese anime is fantastic! You'll love Japanese anime! Really! Don't be scared of Japanese anime! No need to be scared! We've taken out all of the crazy stuff but there really is something golden in it which we've retained." Now - the way I see it - a story is either great on its' own merits or it sucks. It's hard for me to fathom that a story can "retain" what makes it golden without all of its' other parts. That would kind of be like saying that a floating nice ass is the perfect woman. Sure, she has no legs, no arms, no breasts, no main body, no hair, no face - but hey - she's got ONE HECK OF AN ASS As for whether Robotech was mothballed/succesfull/not successful - I say it was a failure. Heck - I didn't even get it on TV in the 80s and I lived in the USA - but it didn't get shown everywhere. Nobody knows about it. Maybe nobody knows about Macross either - but at least it's worth knowing about Of course these are all opinions - all of us are somewhat talking out of our butts. But for me - one of the best things about Macrossworld is that we can point fingers and laugh at Robotech all we want neener neener neener don't take it too personally Pete ps - I agree with Mr. March's thoughts posted above.

Dude - you rule! Your kits are great! Not only because they are so well built - but because you have such a rare and wonderful selection ! Those Zendradi and Meltran ships, the Cats Eye - and that Regult with the Zendradi soldier inside (dag- very cramped cockpit!)... Very very very nice stuff! Inspiring! Pete

Well, if it helps any - Misa didn't give Hikaru a second look for a long, long looong time. I'm interested, however, in your wife being "a lot like Misa" because I often note that my girlfriend is a lot like Misa. So... just to compare how we both view Misa - how do you see your wife being "a lot like Misa?" For me - my girlfriend reminds me of Misa a) because she looks pretty much the same (aka same color hair, same hair style (DYRL), green eyes even, small ear, similar figure, b) because she's older than me, c) because she hold a job that entails a lot of responsibility and is a senior level position, c) because she has the repuation at work of being "Demon Lady," d) because she is harsh, brittle, coarse, and uptight in her personal relations/every day behavior, e) because she has an extremely lady like, provincial (in the good sense), noble and feminine way of being under her crusty exterior. As to your ex who called you just before your wedding - well - I (sadly) never had any Minmeys in my life. My ex-girlfriend was a psychotic lunatic that I regret ever meeting. Happily, we were only together for a year, half of which we didn't even see each other. It would be nice to have someone like Minmey in my life. The nearest I ever got was a theatre actress who sang in musicals, and some girl who also sang - although I'm not sure where or how..maybe in commercials or out door festivals or something... But the first one was nothing like Minmey (blond and very cynical - no cuteness) while the second one was more of a "pal" or "tomboy" kind of girl and also nothing like Minmey... Need to find a girl like Minmey ... Well - I respect your interpretation of this - and this really is a matter of personal interpretation I think, because we're talking about something fairly nuanced here... But I don't fully agree that the "chauvinism" in Macross is a sign of its' "backwards" times. The show was very conscious of the problems ailing human nature. Look at what Misa's dad told her when justifying the use of the Grand Cannon - look at Global's speech to the citizens of the Macross when justifying amnesty for the Zendradi spies. Look at the fact that Kawamori himself has said that initially, Macross was going to be a show about a giant ship that was commanded by ONLY women (Global ended up being the only guy on the Bridge - all of the other officers there are women). So, just because one character (or two) have "chauvinist" view points doesn't make Macross a "backwards" or "sexist" show by any stretch of the imagination. Also - I don't think Hikaru was saying that women shouldn't be allowed to have any job they want - I think he was just saying that men shouldn't allow women to find themselves in dangerous situations. If this is a sexist view - I personally don't think it is a bad or negative view. Nor does it detract the contribution women can make in combat or other dangerous situations. It's simply an expression of care on the part of men towards women. So - I don't think there's anything "dated" or "wrong" with the worldview presented in Macross. I can't see it as being sexist or racist or anything of that sort. If anything, it is all about overcoming differences and striving for love and happiness in a life full of sorrow and chaos. Pete

Well - truth be told, I've always loved Cobra Commander. If they made GI Joe the movie be about an out of work grocery store clerk who gets a job in a used car lot where he catches the idea to form Cobra and then gets into a car accident with Snake Eyes' relatives, builds Springfield, populates it with... Well - you get the point. I loved Marvel comics take on Cobra Commander. I think the only character that should be "international" in this is Destro - since he always was. But generally speaking... I do worry that the "nuclear weapon" plot is just wacko. I mean - if you think about it - Cobra, as an organization, likely had tons of nuclear weapons. I mean, look at their army. They weren't really "terrorists" in the sense of these 4th generation non-state actors running around in pajamas with cocktail molotovs and IEDs. These guys have an airforce, a navy, and things like the Terror-Drone. For a bunch of "terrorists" - they were very hierarchical, structured and symmetrical in the way that they operated. Little wonder that, in the comics, the Nation of Cobra was a legal entity and they got Cobra Island up and running. And in fact- if you really think about it - if your goal is territorial domination and the expansion of power, then this is pretty much the blue-print you would follow. I guess I'm wondering what goal Cobra would have. Why would they threaten to blow cities up and all that? What do they want? ONE-MILION DOLLARS!!! ? (Austin Powers moment)... Sadly, given what has been shown - I get the feeling this is all going to suck. Generic Cobra soldiers will be all over the place, and Cobra itself will be a sad caricature of a "terrorist organization." I dunno. They could AT LEAST make GI Joe at the same level as James Bond movies are on the whole (with some exceptions). Sure, Ian Flemmings novels, and the movies, had their eccentricities and sometimes verged on the ridiculous (Pierce Brosnan's Bond was particularly idiotic IMO - almost as if they mistakened Austin Powers FOR James Bond rather than as a parody of it), but overall - they were exciting, enjoyable spy movies. GI Joe COULD potentially live up to that and be enjoyable, exciting adventure/commando/paramilitary style type of movie. But I fear it'll be Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Turtles in Time on Crack mixed with Steroids. Pete

My MP Thundercracker told me to tell you that he's glad that I am not planningo n sanding his nose Good luck! Pete

Just for clarity - my mom was the primary breadwinner too. Plenty of single moms are to this day. But being a breadwinner doesn't mean a woman stops being a woman and having womanly needs. The problem is, I think, that all too often, men stopped being men. Misa says it best late in SDFM TV, when she notes - about the post-Space War I men - "why are men these days all such weaklings?!" I think one of the things that impressed her about Hikaru was that Hikaru was a classical gentleman. This in no way implies that women can't win bread, or that they should only wash dishes. Besides - I interpret Hikaru's remark about how women shouldn't be in war as being a galant one. He is not so much saying that women should wash dishes as he is saying that women should not be put into harms way in a war-like situation. To equate working women with "warring women" is a stretch. Hikaru never told Minmey "hey, you shouldn't be working as a singer - you need to go do the dishes" because Minmey's job wasn't dangerous. So, Hikaru is not really a "chauvinist" in the crude sense of having a narrow view of the role of women. He is, however, a gentleman - for better or worse - and I think his view of women is spot on (better than Roy's, who is far too cynical about them) and that Hikaru would actually be every girl's dream guy Pete

I think that was Devastator. Pete

I think Robotech is already more popular in the US than Macross. It is also a bigger failure in the US than Macross. There are lots of people in the US who think Robotech is great. There are lots of people in the US who think Robotech sucks and Macross is great. There are TONS of people in the US who, if they know anything about Robotech, think it sucks and don't know anything about Macross. There is practically nobody in the US who thinks Macross sucks. The eventual movie will just magnify this situation - Macross can't loose. So - yeah - bring on the Robotech movie; it'll help bury the franchise sooner. I hope Explain please You peaked my interested with the dishawshing and cleaning comment... do you mean to refer to when Ichijo tells Misa that women shouldn't be in combat situations, and look prettier cleaning and washing dishes...and then in episode 28 that's what she's doing (looking pretty as well) ? Yeah - well - funny thing about chauvinism: Women think chauvinists are terrible - until they need someone to save them Remember the reason Hikaru gave for saving her: "I wouldn't turn my back on a girl" - aka: "yeah; normally I'd maybe consider sacrificing a male team mate since it would be manly, but I'm not letting a weak girl die." EDIT: Note to Schyz: In Robotech, this scene is completely different, with Misa saying "Oh Rick I love you! I've always needed you!" or something equally stupid and the two of them having a love moment. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and worse Not ok. Pete

Shouldn't this go to the all-purpose TF thread? Jetfire is technically not a Macross toy... or am I now being anal as well as PMSing? Pete

Yeah - but I think part of the reason that worked was because of the special effects that followed that pre-amble. Effects which, for that time, were mind-blowing. The Star Destroyer coming in after Lea's ship is a pretty straight forward scene from the point of view of 2009 - but in 1979 it was like OMFG!!!!!... So really, a live action Macross movie would ONLY work if you put the primary spot light on the idea of SINGING defeating an enemy instead of fighting. There are enough "aliens attack, we fight back and destroy" movies out there. Although - even War of the Worlds had song inadvertantly kill of the aliens... But there has never been a serious "aliens come, fight, sexy babe sings, everyone gets along, aliens intergrate into society" flick... But - in the end - I don't know if anybody remembers Graham writing it - but I do - Graham wrote that he prefers anime to live-action in terms of Macross. And I have to agree. Not everything deserves to be put into "live action" because live action often doesn't measure up compared to anime. It's like saying that instead of Michaelangelo's David, somebody should just put Hulk Hogan or Arnold on a pedestal and have them stand around naked all day. Doesn't work. Pete

Yeah, but old, brittle, break-prone and ugly Pete

I'm more interested in seeing a picture of Unicorn Coating version. Anybody seen that yet? Pete

Fantastic pic! Throw in some scantly clad fan girls and you've got an even bigger winner! But seriously - that is so cool and it does show off the coolness that is the new YF-21 - those hands are just perfect for the guitar! Brings a bright sunshine smile to my face seeing this. Good job! Pete

Yes, and the Flat Earth Society does still have members joining it. But that doesn't make the Earth flat. Robotech doesn't exist. People who cling to it cling to something fake. It is their right to do so, they can even make the argument that the fake thing is better than the real 3 anime it was made out of - sure. They can believe that. But no sense pretending that Robotech is "its' own entity" when it actually is basically a triple-plus bootleg of other people's work. Pete (the PMSing Ass)

Solid, logical and well-reasoned arguments have a tendency of generating that kind of reaction Too bad I don't have my Bassara avatar any more. It would make more sense for you not to like me if I still had my Bassara avatar - but, given that I have Minmey's butt in my Avatar - what's not to like? In general, it is true that you don't get the right to know something until you've tried it - however, this doesn't apply in two cases: a) Isamu Dyson and sour apples b) Robotech Why? Because by definition - sour apples are sour. If you KNOW you don't like sour tastes and you have a reasonable understanding of what "sour" is like as a taste, then you actually don't have to try sour apples in order to know you don't like them. By analogy: do you really need to stick your hand in the fire to "know" that it's hot? To put it bluntly: I think the empiricist argument is blatantly false; a prior knowledge is possible and deductive reasoning is able to bring us knowledge without having to experience something. The best example to show why this is so? Murder. Do you REALLY need to kill someone in order to figure out whether or not it's immoral to do so? Do you need to steal, lie, rob, cheat, keep your head under water for 35 minutes, jump off a cliff, cut yourself with a knife etc etc etc to "know" that these are not beneficial or moral things to do? No. Robotech doesn't even exist. To say that you can't criticize Robotech unless you see it is like saying you can't criticize Shakespeare's Romeo & Juliet until you see the Leonardo DiCaprio version of it. At best, Robotech is a twisted and weak interpretation of Macross as it was in the original. I think I've been fair to Robotech, acknowledging the constraints under which it was developed - but those constraints no longer apply. It was one big artificial construct - and all of the reasons why it needed to be presented that way are now dead and gone. The original Macross can be shown by itself and there is absolutely no need to keep Robotech alive - because there actually is no such thing as Robotech. This is the most fundamental criticism of Robotech and the main reason why you actually don't have to subject yourself to it in order to criticize it. No, I didn't. I said he violated it and still failed, not that he failed at violating it. Big difference. He violated Macross because he figured it was necessary in order to bring it over to the West and therefore cobbled together Robotech. Robotech basically failed anyways. My point was to say that if the REASON why he violated Macross was to "save it" - aka - to be able to bring it over to the West in the hopes that some of its' initial brilliance would shine through - then he failed in saving it. If the choice is between bringing original Macross over and seeing it fail, or violating Macross, making Robotech, and seeing that fail - then I believe it would have been better had he just brought over Macross, Macross failed, and he would be lauded as a hero for trying to bring Macross over to the west. Nothing contradictory I can see in this point of view. The thread is about a guy who watched Robotech and finally got around to watching Macross and shared his impressions with us, and then other members chime in with their opinions. No where does it say we can't rip Robotech. I actually think Kieth made an unfair comparisson too - but for a different reason: Thunder-Cats was fun and the diaologue was on the whole much better than Robotech...so his comparisson is unfair...to Thundercats You? Clearly you forgot to add Veritech fighters to the Macross Manual. After all, Robotech is Ok. It's not win - but it's ok. Get to work Fair enough. Although - it is arguable that the Protodevilin did yearn for change and were dissatisfied. I mean; notice that the only reason they sucked other people's spiritia was because they were convinced that they couldn't produce any on their own. Bassara wanted to show them - through his music- that in fact they COULD; that they didn't need to steal other people's spiritia; that they could generate their own. The Protodevilin's despair is evident in their entire venture; as is its' futility - since they hate Bassara, but they also need him to generate Spiritia in their Spiritia farm. So, in a way, they did yearn for change - Bassara was the catalyst for it. Gamlin and the other soldiers could never have been. Pete

The trick I guess is to therefore suggest something WORSE than an anime name - and slowly manipulate them into a fall back position, where they agree that the anime anime name is middle ground... Like so: WIFE: So, what shall we name our baby? I was thinking Laverne, after my Grandmother... OTAKU HUSBAND: I totally insist on GIGLI! WIFE: What!? Like that stupid Ben Affleck movie?! Are you braindead!? OTAKU HUSBAND: Hey - this is a choice we need to make together right? So - can't I have any input? WIFE: Of course you can - but we're not naming her GIGLI!! Now Laverne...My Grandmother was such a wonderful sweet old woman - so it'll be a lucky name... OTAK HUSBAND: I categorically don't agree. What else do you have in mind? Throw some names out there... WIFE: Oh fine - then...hmm... Betty, Mindy, Cindy, Shawna, Meghan, Karen... OTAKU HUSBAND: Well, I also like names that start with B and M and S and K... for instance - Britai, Misa, Cyberlord, Sheryl, Minmei, Kremzeek... WIFE: CYBERLORD!? WHAT THE F-BEEEP-K ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!? I'M NOT NAMING HER CYBERLORD! OTAKU HUSBAND: Well look, I gave you a whole list - you don't like any of the names? WIFE: I'M NOT NAMING HER CYBLORD! OTAKU HUSBAND: Well how about my other suggestions? None of them? WIFE: Oh - I guess Sheryl is ok... OTAKU HUSBAND: Fine - then it's either Sheryl or CYBERLORD. WIFE: You have got to be f-beeep-king kidding me! OTAKU HUSBAND: Ok - I'll compromise - CYBERLORD 693.... WIFE: WHAT?! OTAKU HUSBAND: How about Cyberia - you know - like Siberia - but different... WIFE: No - look - stop! Just stop! Sheryl's fine! We'll call her Sheryl! Ok? OTAKU HUSBAND: I dunno - Cyberlord has that special something... WIFE: EITHER WE CALL HER SHERYL OR YOU HAVE NO SAY IN IT AND SHE STAYS LAVERNE!! OTAKU HUSBAND: OK sweet heart. Calm down. I love you. I'll do what you want. We'll call her Sheryl if it make syou happy. kiss. The End Pete

Here's the interesting question: Who is more sexually provocative and attractive: The girl who wears military uniforms as part of her BDSM stage act (Sheryl) or the girl who ACTUALLY wears military uniforms because it's her job? In other words: what's more attractive - someone who "pretends" to be stiff and disciplined as part of an explicit sexual act (as in acting) or someone who IS stiff and disciplined and therefore unintentionally sexually attractive? I guess these new pictures of Misa really have a Sheryl vibe in them and I'm trying to come to grips - it's almost as though I half expect Misa to suddenly flick off that military cap and start pole dancing Too bad she can't sing Pete

I wouldn't. I'd rather pay to go to Japan to see a Macross movie in a cinema. Pete (grouchy old RT hater)

Wow. Good point Eugimon. Never looked at it that way - but yeah. Pete

You're right to stress the boobage, but I think David was just making the point that if the hair's all wrong, then no amount of boobage can save the day. Look at Britney Spears... Too have bad hair and still get good marks for boobage, you have to have eitehr a beautiful or unique face (think Sigorney Weaver). In any event - no sense getting antagonized at one another and dividing into pro-boob and pro-hair lobbies - we need to think wholistically here. But yeah - it looks like discussing any OTHER aspect of this movie isn't going to be worth while Pete

This much I'll agree with you on. I think in general that the concept behind Macross 7 was great. The execution had lots of problems - the bad animation you mentioned, and the Valk design (it's not so much the bright colors that bother me as their unimaginative use. Just "you're red and you're pink and you're green"... custom Valks used by rock musicians would be a bit more inspired in their deco)... Also - the pacing is bad - things drag out too much...the opening episodes are monotonous etc etce etc. I think I would not be so radical in my defense of M7 if people just mainly complained about how badly executed it was - but I can't agree that the concept is stupid, or that Bassara is a bad character because you - or everybody else - doesn't like him. Not all main characters are meant to be likable - sometimes it's worthwhile to have a main character who nobody likes. Yeah - Starship troopers was cool. But notice that they NEVER tried singing in Starship troopers. Why? Because Human society in Starship troopers is totally fascist and - really - there's no reason to prefer the humans (as they are) to the goopy alien bug creatures. Both species are regimented, unthinkingly dedicated to violence, and war-like. On Earth, culture - if it's not tabloid/trash culture - is no where to be seen in Starship troopers. As for the bugs - we don't know if they produce any either. Macross does not deny that human nature is violent and prone to warfare. It does however deny that human beings are meant for this kind of life - and it does everything possible to culture humans just as much as it cultures Zendradi or other aliens. Finally - leaving the singing to the singers and the fighting to the pilots sets up a paradigm that someone like Bassara is out to smash: He wants to radicalize what Minmey did. Not just a psychological attack that stalls people so you can blow them up - but - as he says -"a sound that is more powerful than missiles" - something that will literally just make everyone throw down their weapons and love eachother. Again - I don't see this plot as unrealistic. Badly executed with poor animation and often poor directing - yes. Bad plot? No. Pete

Well Shin ALMOST managed to kill Mao - that's got to count for something Pete