Mr March

I think the thread title should stay. Think of it as a Susan Boyle lesson

But we were having so much fun I don't have mine yet. I got up to issue #19. I have to wait for a few more issues before buying another batch, to save on shipping.

Would you like my opinion? Seto posted a ridiculously silly critical opinion of the Chronicle and overzealous Chronicle fans let common sense fly out the window. Now the debate has become the words “threaten” or “violence” and a typical zero-perspective debate over the connotation of those words. Qui pro quo. As for the church lady finger-wagging and subsequent attempt at a guilt trip, I'll let that behaviour stand as testament to the tragic international-incident mountain that has become of this anthill. I'll give Big West reps credit that they are smart enough to understand fans wolf-packing each other over nonsense. Oh MW, you can still blow it up with the best of them. Don't let anyone ever tell you different

What else are we gonna do with each other? Why Gubaba, are you flirting with me? TheLoneWolf As your attorney, I must advise against publicly stating our intentions until we're ready to proceed with indictments

Ah, a Tommy Yune pie-slinging repeat. These character assassinations are anything but valid and a lame attempt to remain straight faced after being called on them. This "violence" crutch has descended beyond any facade of perspective. If you really believe this "threatening language", then file a police report. And after you're done, I've got some beachfront property to sell you. Hehehe, I would think so. But try explaining that to this audience Just wait until the mudslinging. Oh, yes, MW has been too quiet. I was more right than I could know

Reviews so far have been surprisingly positive. Looks like they might have something here that may leave the mutants and terminators in the dust this summer. Still, I've lived through too many hype machines to let this affect me too much. I'm remaining cautiously skeptical until I see the film myself, especially as a critic of most Trek aside from TOS. If I'm surprised by the higher than expected quality, all the better

Okay, now who is lacking perspective Seriously folk, Seto Kaiba is merely expressing his disappointment; he's not literally threatening violence. Let's take the euphemisms for what they are and drop the petty character assassinations.

Yes. See the news thread.

Well like I said, after so many years, who on staff at Big West knows about the relevant reference material or even a list of what exists? Likely no one. No one who knows is even on staff anymore and those originally involved in Macross II probably don't even remember. Some fans have done years of volunteer research scouring the globe for materials and purchasing obscure publications just on the off chance that some model magazine might have an official width for some obscure ship featured for 5 seconds in episode 29 of their favorite anime series. Even I consider myself an amateur at best in regards to Macross trivia; I've not even one-hundredth the collected books and resources of most other fans. The Chronicle aside, I think I own about six Macross books and that's pretty much the totality of my official library. So the writers and researchers hired for the Macross Chronicle probably don't have the same sort of time or fan devotion to commit to the book that even an amateur like me had to commit to his fansite. More important than that, these writers are being asked to chronicle a franchise which a) was never properly chronicled in the first place, b) is an odd ball franchise to begin with that only intermittently produces product and c) is a Japanese franchise, which are known splitting desirable products into dozens of different products to increase sales when just a handful of products would have sufficed. Given the small number of errors so far appearing in the Chronicle, I'd say they are doing quite a good nitpicking job. I will be sorry if the VF-2SS Valkyrie II turns out to be disappointing. Believe me when I say many of us are hoping for the best, especially since Macross II is largely unexamined. But if it's not all that, I don't think we honestly have that much to complain about. That's how I see it.

I agree it's frustrating and that's probably something we've all had to deal with. The Chronicle has largely been worthwhile, but in some respects it's let us down or actually made MORE work for us (damn them and their contradictory Factory Satellite sizes!). But that's life. The Macross Chronicle, as good as it could ever be, can't be everything to every fan. Especially those fans, like ourselves, with an unhealthy, geek-extreme knowledge of all things Macross

I think this is all a problem with cataloging the Macross franchise so long after the fact. Once the project is over, everyone disbands and forgets most of the past. Now 15 years later, no one is going to remember much of anything, especially which fan magazines and design bibles actually covered Macross II when a) there was damn few publications that covered the series, b) there wasn't much information to begin with and c) even the original Macross II sources appear to state differently when covering the same material. If something like the Chronicle or a series guide had been done back in 1992, perhaps all the trivia and statistics could have been collated into a definitive guide that made sense. We can't really blame the Chronicle writers (most of whom were probably barely in school at the time Macross II was released) for not having an extensive, doctorate-level immersion in the franchise

The Macross Chronicle doesn't appear to be expounding upon information previously available in any amount of lengthy detail. In many cases, we are getting the same old statistics that we've read on the Macross Compendium for years. When new, never-before-seen trivia does appear in the Macross Chronicle, it's often no more than two or three new facts in among a text description or the Chronicle will add a few basic statistics that weren't known before. I was really hoping that Kawamori and Co. would use the Chronicle as an opportunity to expand on some of the under-developed valkyries. Perhaps the valkyries that were not animated wouldn't see much action, but the VF-5000 Star Mirage from Macross Dynamite 7 was a prime candidate for much broader statistics. The Chronicle featured absolutely nothing new for the VF-5000. I'm not going to make any excuses for the Chronicle writers, but I have to mimic Gubaba's point that we cannot expect much considering what's been published in the first 20 issues. Macross Frontier is by far the recipient of the most new, revelatory information published in the Macross Chronicle. The reason for that is obvious, I'm sure. Overall, I'm happy with the Macross Chronicle, but I will admit that they could have done a bit more. Still, when you get fleet counts for the Macross 7 and Varauta fleets, it's hard to bitch about a lack of information. That's something I never expected. I suppose given it's black sheep status, we can be thankful the Macross Chronicle is even covering Macross II at all. The Chronicle has provided a few nuggets of new information for Macross II mecha, such as the missile count of the Gigamesh suits. That's more interesting information than anything done to some of the other major mecha, like the VF-5000.

Does this sort of incident even happen often enough to justify such a stir among the membership? I mean really, the board manages itself and only once in a long while is anyone actually involved in some sort of row that get's them banned. Perspective is definitely missing in all of this drama. But then again, MW has been kinda quiet so maybe this is good for the boards, even if it is just treading water.

Oh, that's a good bit of trivia that I had forgotten. I'm going to add this to the Macrosspedia and source it. Thanks for the reminder.

Looking good. Can't wait to find out what it says in the Macross Galaxy portions.

Yeah, a new thread with some good organization is fine. I like the headers and font sizes. Makes it easy to categorize the facts.

Actually, I must say that I really enjoyed watching Macross Frontier during broadcast and interacting on the forums, warts and all. Yes, you get a lot of hating and silly debates, but you also get a lot of positive feedback and shared enjoyment. Since I almost never watch anime with anyone in my social circles, it was nice to be "among fans" when Macross Frontier was airing. Plus, the forums gave me access to all kind of information for my website and was thus I could use that information to help other fans stay up to speed. All in all, it was a rather enjoyable and unique experience. I'd never followed a new anime series like this before.

I think the differences between eastern and western audiences accepting different mechanical designs can be attributed to factors such as the expectation of presentation and perception of those two audiences. For one, we North Americans don't categorize our mechanical and robotic creations under the same "mecha" umbrella. There are no "mecha genres" in western culture, only science fiction. Most western fans, even those familiar with anime (like ourselves), don't categorize western-designed mechanical creations as "mecha," even if they are. For example, when you ask a North American sci-fi fan to provide an example of "western mecha", most of them run to the nearest "giant Japanese robot" equivalent such as Warhammer, Battletech or Starcraft (if they are even familiar with these games). Few North American fans would point to Iron Man, Robocop, or The Master Chief (Halo) as their first example of "mecha." This is probably because western robots are smaller and generally not large enough to be "piloted." After all, you don't pilot a Terminator Also, most western robots need to be designed in such a way that they appeal to a broader audience than just pre-teens or early-teens. Most Japanese-designed mecha are created in the same manner as our western super heroes, with bright primary colors and garish, overly-stylized designs. When super heroes become adapted to the screen, these colorful elements and adolescent trappings are often removed (X-Men, Batman, Watchmen, etc) and they are re-imagined for live action in a much more grounded, realistic visual presentation. There are exceptions (Superman, Spider-Man), but exceptions exist in Japanese anime as well. Another factor in east vs. west mindset is the varying degrees of acceptance found in every audience, even among anime fans. For example, we Macross fans have often criticized Gundam's brightly colored "clown mecha" as unrealistic. In comparison to our favoured Macross valkyries, which we perceive as generally far less garish, these Gundams fall outside the acceptance of some of us. So even among Japanese mecha fans, here we have a debate about how far our suspension of disbelief can be stretched. The broader mainstream audiences have these tendencies as well and the broader the audience, the more you have to appeal to a broader taste. This is especially true when comparing the audience for live action vs. the far smaller audience for an animation. For most North American audiences, asking them to accept mecha as ornamental and colorful as those found in Gundam, Macross or Evangelion is like asking them to watch a live action X-Men with Hugh Jackman dressed in yellow spandex So the issue is a bit more complex than "Japanese robots are beautiful, western robots are ugly." For my part, western mechanical designs are just as awesome as eastern mechanical designs. I like Nolan's Tumbler in Batman Begins/The Dark Knight every bit as much as I like Kawamori's VF-25 Messiah in Macross Frontier. The VF-25 Messiah wins the pretty award, the Tumbler wins the realism award. Macross mecha appeal to my childhood loves, the Batman mecha appeal to my adult loves. Besides, Favreau's Iron Man was one of the sexiest, prettiest mechanical designs I've ever seen, including anything from Japan.

LOL! :lol: The animation totally makes the avatar

Depends on the forum. There are very good and just reasons for getting banned from some message boards. But if you want back in, best to behave

That's basically what some of us have pointed out. The entire overwrought theory is criticism born from a false premise and uses a lot of unnecessary, pedantic text as window dressing after the fact. But even if that bloated theory was reaching for legitimacy, it's still valid as an opinion piece if nothing else.

As far as I know, the population of the SDF-1 Macross never went over 78,000 people. Anyway, we had this discussion before in a thread about the SDF-1's length: thread discussion turns to talk about the population inside the SDF-1 Macross Basically, the SDF-1 Macross ship itself has no problem accommodating 78,000 people and could easily accommodate thousands more (and this isn't even accounting for the Daedalus, Prometheus or ARMDs). Where the creative staff fudges things onboard the Macross is when they attempt to accommodate the buildings. Basically, the ship can't; at least, not the way buildings and city blocks are shown in the anime. BTW, Macross Chronicle Issue 12 has a World Guide section on the SDF-1 Macross habitable sections and it seems to indicate areas beyond the legs. The midsection seems to hold people as well.

No, it Smells Like Children

I dare you.