Shaggydog

Are you being disingenuous? Have you spent much time on these forums? It is the 'consistently poor track record' that is controversial. I'd say they have a fairly good track record.

I'd say there are pretty even odds that the Beta will be great. Of course, there are plenty of folks who will vehemently disagree with me, and some who will vehemently disagree with THEM. Are you just trying to start this pointless flamewar again, in a thread that really doesn't need it?

Minor correction: I believe the first picture shown above is a new picture of a test shot, as eriku says. The second picture (robot mode) is a picture from last year that Toynami decided to reuse for their slideshow at NYCC. AFAIK no robot mode pictures of the test shot yet.

OH SNAP LAWL

I can only speak for myself, but my Legioss wasn't "loose" in the sense of having floppy joints. The bigger problem is that in fighter mode, it just doesn't 'snap into place' at all, so you're not quite sure if you're done or not... nothing is really holding all the parts in the correct fighter mode positions, so the fighter mode just feels like you posed all the limbs in a certain spot, rather than feeling like a finished mode of the toy. For me, I like my transforming toys to have that satisfying feeling of being "done" when you snap the last part in place and complete the transformation. Still, though, the Legioss joints are tight in my case, and I believe the toy is sturdy in the sense that it doesn't seem prone to breakage (just based on initial impressions). It is very light, as many people have said.

Have you tried the Google yet?

My impressions of Legioss/Tread: The Tread is the centerpiece of this set, and it's fantastic. Big, chunky, plasticy old-school goodness. Very solid and fun. Sensible gimmicks. Good articulation. I can't say enough good things about it. Finally, we have a semi-affordable Tread toy!!! I suspect this Tread toy is at least as nice as the famed Gakken, but I'll never know for sure. The Legioss feels like an afterthought in this set. It's very light, and has a hard time standing in many poses. The fighter mode doesn't 'lock down' in any sense, and isn't stable. That said, I believe the CM's Legioss is sturdier than the Toynami. Nothing feels like it's going to break so far. CM's legioss also has much tighter and better joints. Toynami's Legioss wins in 'feel' (due to the heavy diecast metal) and in robot-mode looks. The linkup sucks. 'nuff said. Overall, the set feels overpriced for what it is, in terms of the size, quality, and intricacy of the toys (notwithstanding the usual sensible arguments about the size of the production run, etc.). That said, it's totally worth it to me to have such a nice Tread. So, no complaining here. I'd personally recommend to Toynami that they cancel the Tread toy, because I frankly doubt they'll do anything better (and this is coming from one of Toynami's biggest defenders).

Nooo... it's right there, see? .. oh.. wait, that's his face

LMFAO at the USC kid whose Daddy had to pay big bucks 'cause he didn't have the grades to get into Cal or UCLA. http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews....tudoc_brief.php LMFAO at the football team that gets beat by Stanford.

Thanks for the info man! Too bad the Legioss is floppy, I'm sure the bitching will be horrendous.. But I'm glad to hear the Tread is pretty solid! The long wait for a Tread toy is finally over!!!

Does everything 'lock down' and fit together nicely in each mode so that you know the transformation is 'done'?

No pix yet, but I'm sure you know what they look like by now. (Unless '2008 version' implies updates to the toy..) The packaging will be new, at least. Hikaru VF-1J: http://www.happinetonline.com/NASApp/mnas/...D=4543112528599 Fokker VF-1S: http://www.happinetonline.com/NASApp/mnas/...D=4543112528629 Not very exciting, but I still have a remote, absurd hope that they'll someday reissue the Elintseeker.

I agree, this toy lacks the guaranteed QC issues that justify the higher cost of Yamato's toys.

Here's a few rhetorical hand grenades to add to the fun. Enjoy! 1. To the people who say that Bandai has not made quality non-gundam toys: just saying something like that doesn't make it true. Try actually buying a few of Bandai's non-gundam toys. Here's a short list of recent high quality Bandai non-gundam toys that pop to mind: * SOC Voltes V * Soul Spec Layzner * Saint Seiya Myth Cloth Wyvern R. * DX Senpuujin (Hurricaneger) * Chogokin Mechagodzilla just to name a few. The truth is, Bandai is practically a byword for quality. Have they ever produced crummy items? Of course! Is it possible their Macross F items will suck? Yeah, I guess so. But at their peak, Bandai has achieved quality the likes of which Yamato can only dream about. The only Yamato toy that competes at that level is the 1/48 VF-1. If you're betting on whether a new high-end Bandai line will turn out good, the smart money is on 'yes'. 2. As far as I can tell, the belief in the supposed 'mistreatment' of the Macross license by Bandai (which is absurd on the face of it, Bandai is motivated simply by money, not hatred for certain licenses) is based on the Macross 7 toys they produced in the mid-90's. (I guess Bandai doesn't get credit for the excellent Takatoku reissues?) Firstly, remember that those Mac 7 toys were produced BEFORE the big toy-collectible boom of the late 90's. Therefore, they were actually intended to be real TOYS, not ultra-accurate fanboy wankoff fodder that shatters with a look. And as such, they succeeded! They were fun, and I've yet to hear of any breakage issues, unlike practically every Yamato toy ever churned out. Secondly, for better or for worse, Bandai has subsequently fully embraced the modern toy-collectible movement, and has produced a ton of fantastic toy collectibles in other lines (see above). There is no logical reason other than knee-jerk Yamato-worship to think that they can't do the same with Macross. Whew. I'm out.

However shall we live without these teases when the Macross F toys are nearly complete?

There's no question that Macross (and Mospeada, and Robotech) is a 'niche market' compared to Transformers. You're right to point out that we don't have access to production numbers; however, we can look at some secondary bits of evidence: * transformers are carried in every walmart, target, kmart, TRU, etc. across the US - hell, even walgreens' carries them. No major US retailers carry any macross toys, to my knowledge. * the number of active english language fan sites dedicated to macross? maybe 2-3, right? * the number of active english language fan sites dedicated to transformers? I could rattle off 10 without breaking a sweat, and I'm sure there are far more. * although we're getting a new Macross TV series now, and there have been a few others (mac 7, mac+), Wikipedia tells us that there have been 15 Transformers TV series, with one every year since 2001. It's harder for us to judge the overseas (and especially Japanese) market, but I think it's fair to say that Transformers is more broadly popular than Macross in most if not all toy markets. The reason we see significant numbers of toys and even a new TV series for a 'niche market' is that Yamato (along with other companies) have discovered a way to make a tidy profit from niche markets - charge a lot of money for the toys! In this way they can cover the higher per-unit production costs and still make money. This is the great discovery of the modern toy era: adult toy buyers generally have a larger disposable income and are willing to spend a lot for collectible items. This is the basis of a lot of high-priced 'toy' lines: SOC, DMZ, Yamato Macross, etc... The fallacy of your argument is that you equate 'niche market' with 'zero market', which is not correct.

I think this reply hits the mark exactly.. more analysis is poured into individual toys here, because the scope of the hobby is much narrower and the number of toys is much smaller than in transformers or gundam collecting. It's still amusing to me, though.. the contrast between this forum and other toy forums is pretty noticeable. (and no, there's nothing WRONG WITH THAT although I still haven't gotten a satisfactory answer as to why people who dislike a particular upcoming toy continue to check&post to the thread about that toy...)

This is a peculiarity of MacrossWorld, I must say. I'm not aware of any other toy forum where so much energy is focused on complaining about toys. In most places, it suffices to enter a single negative post (for example, "No good, I'm not buying it, for the following reasons:" or "this toy is too fragile, and the following things broke:"), and then move along. On Macrossworld, the toy must be reviled, despised, and insulted, along with the creator, his mother, his dog and his postman. Eternal damnation must be cursed upon all those in the company and their descendants and heirs. Holy war is declared on anyone who refuses to convert to the side of truth, and rhetorical grenades are tossed heedlessly into the ranks of the doubtful. Unremitting and unending warfare must continue zealously while even the possibility of a disagreement in a sliver of one man's mind persists. Unfunny humor must be employed to degrade the infamous name of the offending company, and a petulant squeal of rage must be chorused by a thousand angry fanboys, no matter on the first time round or the ten thousandth.

Hey, lemme save you guys some clicks n' disappointment: neither of those things is gonna happen. (not saying they should or shouldn't happen, just that they won't.)

Really Kyp? Are you sure? The last 47 f-cking pages of this thread left some doubt in my mind.

Well, let me set your mind at ease. You see, I was munching spicy noodles in a small shop in Tokyo in early 1983 (you'll have to forgive my faulty memory, I can't recall the exact date) when suddenly nature called with an urgency that was not to be denied. In my desperate flight to the restroom, I happened to bump into none other than Shinji Aramaki! After relieving myself in the stall, I found a hasty sketch on a wadded piece of toilet paper on the floor. The subject of the bathroom doodle was the controversial red TREAD, and I can confidently assure you that it looked PRECISELY the same as the red TREAD that our good friends at CM's are producing for such an exorbitant price. Unfortunately, I can offer no proof of this, as the stall was otherwise devoid of ass-wiping material and I was forced to use the TREAD sketch to cleanse my nether regions.

Would that be 'screwing collectors'. or 'screwing people who are smugly self-congratulatory about passing up the first release'?

The problem with 'quality issues' (breakage, defects) is that they're statistical in nature - so one person may get a truly great specimen and think the toy is fantastic, while others get a pile of crap in the mail. As you say, you can only get a sense of how common quality problems are by monitoring the frequency of complaints. In any case, I own many of the toynamis and one of the aoshimas, and in my PARTICULAR case, the aoshima is not really worse than the toynami, but neither is it much better. I had one part pop off, but it popped right back on again. Again, fwiw, I know many people had terrible problems with both the toynamis and the aoshimas, so overall I think the toy is (unfortunately) a bit on the cruddy side no matter which version you get.

Of course, it is ridiculous to be annoyed by toys. It is equally ridiculous to be excited or happy about toys. Toys just don't matter in the big picture of things. But by posting to a TOY BBS, we are signaling that we are interested enough in toys to be excited or annoyed by them, despite the ridiculousness of it all. So let's dispense of that talk. As for 'license issues', it's not my problem - it's Yamato's. Plenty of great toys get made every year by lots of companies who find ways around license issues. This kind of thinking ("we don't know the license issues, so therefore we can't have any opinion on which toys the Great Yamato makes") is silly. I'm confident that there are lots of great non-VF-1 toys that Yamato could acquire licenses for. The reason Yamato is making more VF-1's is not because licenses prevent them from making other toys. The reason is that they believe there is significant consumer demand for more VF-1's, and they can make a profit by producing them. And, based on your posts, I believe they may very well be correct. Time will tell. But, I don't have to like it.

The source of irritation for me is not my 'investment' (I am not a toy investor; I have no illusions about recovering money spent on toys - I have an IRA for investment purposes). I'm irritated because I'm sick of VF-1's, and I'd like to see some really 'new' toys from Yamato. The resources being sunk into yet another 1/60 vf-1 line could be better used (IMO) on tackling large-scale destroids, bad guys, macross 2 mecha, macross 7 mecha, etc. Instead, Yamato keeps making more VF-1's, just smaller than before. Judging from your reactions, though, it may be a savvy business decision. Perhaps people would prefer to see VF-1 toys ad nauseum. I guess we'll find out once they're released.