Berttt Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 That the Mac Zero Destroid that Sithlord posted has a resemblance to the Mac II Tomahawk? Mac 0 Destroid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berttt Posted March 16, 2004 Author Share Posted March 16, 2004 Mac II Destroid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAXXxxx Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 That the Mac Zero Destroid that Sithlord posted has a resemblance to the Mac II Tomahawk? Anzone noticed that the Mac2 tomahawk is based on the original tomahawk design, and the destroid in mac0 IS related to the original tomahawk (made around the same time) also both are Macross destroids --> no problem for me there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 It does bear more resemblance to the mac2 destroid than the original tomahawk though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retracting Head Ter Ter Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Both were made after Macross so of course they will look more similar then the original Tomahawk. Just like some parts of the VF-0 looks more like the 19 then the 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berttt Posted March 16, 2004 Author Share Posted March 16, 2004 That the Mac Zero Destroid that Sithlord posted has a resemblance to the Mac II Tomahawk? Anzone noticed that the Mac2 tomahawk is based on the original tomahawk design, and the destroid in mac0 IS related to the original tomahawk (made around the same time) also both are Macross destroids --> no problem for me there It was just an observation. Just becuase a piece of gear carries the same moniker doesn't mean that it has to follow the same form or function. eg the P-47 has no resemblance to A-10, although they are both named Thunderbolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingNor Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 (edited) i'm un-impressed with this franchises inability to design retro vehicles that look like they came early on in the time line. and they also missed out on the main reason for valks to transform.. and went the gundam rout, aparently valks were designed to fight other valks, not to fight giants from outerspace. yay giant robots fighting giant robots for the sake of having fighting giant robots. not cool i'm very unhappy with MacZero. ***edit*** in that picture of the mac II mech, it says destroying a leg will slow it down by 70%? doesn't that seem a bit optomistic? most vehicles if you destroy half of their road surface won't continue to drive at all. Edited March 17, 2004 by KingNor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stamen0083 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 and they also missed out on the main reason for valks to transform.. and went the gundam rout, aparently valks were designed to fight other valks, not to fight giants from outerspace. yay giant robots fighting giant robots for the sake of having fighting giant robots. not cool Unless they can predict the future, giant beings from outer space haven't appeared to humans yet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only aliens the humans know about at this point in Macross Zero is that... thing... that crashed on Earth. The birdman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingNor Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 and they also missed out on the main reason for valks to transform.. and went the gundam rout, aparently valks were designed to fight other valks, not to fight giants from outerspace. yay giant robots fighting giant robots for the sake of having fighting giant robots. not cool Unless they can predict the future, giant beings from outer space haven't appeared to humans yet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only aliens the humans know about at this point in Macross Zero is that... thing... that crashed on Earth. The birdman. the entire reason for building the valkyries was so humans could do hand to hand combat with the giant aliens. they knew to make the valks because when the SDF crashed and they inspected the thing, it was clearly designed for giants. in the show they even have a few screens of huge doors retro fitted with tiny walkways for the humans. THE main reason i like the valks is that they arn't ambiguously made to fight other big robots, they have a PURPOSE for being the way they are. and Mac Zero is stepping all over that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berttt Posted March 17, 2004 Author Share Posted March 17, 2004 in that picture of the mac II mech, it says destroying a leg will slow it down by 70%? doesn't that seem a bit optomistic? most vehicles if you destroy half of their road surface won't continue to drive at all. That's the problem with Palladium Books, they apply a totally arbitrary system to their games with little relevance to the way the real world works! Berttt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewilen Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 THE main reason i like the valks is that they arn't ambiguously made to fight other big robots, they have a PURPOSE for being the way they are. and Mac Zero is stepping all over that. You have a point, but it could be argued that the various elements which go into making a variable fighter also produced something which was superior to a standard fighter. SWAG makes it tougher, OT-tuned engines give it more power, and the gerwalk & battroid modes both give it more options in a dogfight and the ability to take advantage of terrain. If both sides were simply using overtechnology to develop better fighters, they might not have produced airplanes that transform into robots, but the transforming airplanes they produced for use against extraterrestrial giants are superior enough to regular fighters that the only match for an SV-51 is a valk, and vice-versa. Then again, as was discussed in another thread a long time ago, UN Spacy didn't stop making variable fighters after SW1. Perhaps this was entirely because they recognized an ongoing Zentradi threat, but it could be that the advantages of variable fighters vis a vis conventional fighters justified their continued production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radd Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Ditto on what ewilen said. On the main topic, though, I do see a couple simularities, other than both being based off of the same original mech. Two, to be exact. That bar under the gatling gun, being similar to the bar under the cannons on the arms of the Tamahawk II, and the fact that both destroids have roller skates. I think the simularities end there, aside from what they also both share with the original Tamahawk. I do think that the Mac0 Destroid looks closer to a cross between the original, and an Armored Core mech, though. And I believe there were AC mecha will roller skates as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Jenius Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Yah... the VF2SS looks like a VF-1 and a vf-0... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treatment Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 and they also missed out on the main reason for valks to transform.. and went the gundam rout, aparently valks were designed to fight other valks, not to fight giants from outerspace. yay giant robots fighting giant robots for the sake of having fighting giant robots. not cool Unless they can predict the future, giant beings from outer space haven't appeared to humans yet. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only aliens the humans know about at this point in Macross Zero is that... thing... that crashed on Earth. The birdman. the entire reason for building the valkyries was so humans could do hand to hand combat with the giant aliens. they knew to make the valks because when the SDF crashed and they inspected the thing, it was clearly designed for giants. in the show they even have a few screens of huge doors retro fitted with tiny walkways for the humans. THE main reason i like the valks is that they arn't ambiguously made to fight other big robots, they have a PURPOSE for being the way they are. and Mac Zero is stepping all over that. I'm not so sure about Macross Zero stepping all over the purpose since from all the available episodes, it seems like the purpose (fighting Giants) were already established. It's just that the Anti-UN forces disagreed with the UN (hence the civil war) and developed their own version of the transforming fighter. Nora even revealed in ep-2 about the Anti-UN developing the change-system first and that the UN stole it from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panon Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 THE main reason i like the valks is that they arn't ambiguously made to fight other big robots, they have a PURPOSE for being the way they are. and Mac Zero is stepping all over that. How is it stepping all over it? The purpose of the valkyries hasn't changed at all. And if you're unimpressed with the retro-ness of the designs nothing would make you happy. They've done an excellent job of remaining faithful to the original designs whist making them look more advanced than current day technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Hunter D Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Kawamori must've still had Armored Core on his mind when drawing up that Mac 0 Destroid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 (edited) the entire reason for building the valkyries was so humans could do hand to hand combat with the giant aliens. they knew to make the valks because when the SDF crashed and they inspected the thing, it was clearly designed for giants. in the show they even have a few screens of huge doors retro fitted with tiny walkways for the humans. THE main reason i like the valks is that they arn't ambiguously made to fight other big robots, they have a PURPOSE for being the way they are. and Mac Zero is stepping all over that. I don't see why Mac Zero is overstepping this though. Althought it remains to be revealed why the russians were the ones who originated the transformation technology and the UN aquiring if for themselves. It probably just so happens the new valks which are coincidentally designed to be variable (with the real intention of fighting giants) are also coincidentally more uber fast, powerful and agile than normal fighters, as demonstrated on how a single SV-51 pwned a whole squadron of F-14s. So its not really a Robot VS Robot issue. They just happen to be variable for the original purpose of fighting giants but have many other tactical advantages as well, like what Ewilen said. Well...that's how I see it anyway. Edited March 18, 2004 by wolfx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radd Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Um, everyone saying that the Anti-U.N. perfected the transformation system first is simply going off of Nora's word. I'd wait until the series is over before taking that as fact. Every government tells their people that they're the good guys, and that they came up with the good stuff first. I'm not saying that the Anti-UN didn't come up with it first, I'm just saying that it's too early to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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