Q-rau

[TheLoneWolf]

I've seen a lot of good reasons why the Q-rau could cost so much, but I think the only legitimate one was put by Omni:

PREROGATIVE

The Q-rau is the first of its kind, Yamato has absolutely no competition with the one, local or abroad. Yamato has seen that we* have no problems shelling out $120+ for repainted VF-1's, so we obviously have the fervor and the fundage. With a toy Q-rau being so highly sought after by Macross and Robotech fans, there's no reason why they should cut us a break.

Now, a lot have mentioned production costs as a factor. I've always believed that the R&D teams are the unsung heroes of the toy market, with all the glory going to the company name instead. Can anyone even tell me who sculpted the original "chunky munky"? But I digress. R&D is large portion of the final cost. But I believe that cost is tantamount to how complex the toy is. Anyone who has ever taken apart a 1/60 or 1/48 can tell you about the copious amounts of small parts and joints involved. From the pics posted, the Q-rau appears to have fewer individual pieces than any other Yamato toy to date. The only complicated parts seem to be the hands and opening cockpit. While it is an overall beautiful piece, I do not see it's tooling cost exceeding or even matching that of the VF-1. Which brings me to my next point.

sf648, you've posted an excellent piece on how Yamato was able to amortize the VF-1 line through repaints et al. This makes a lot of sense to me, but if we were to apply the same rubric to all of Yamato's releases, then the VF-11B and YF-21 should have cost a lot more than their MSRP. Both toys involved tremendous tooling, numerous pieces, die-cast, and smaller runs (they got only 1 to 2 variants), yet their MSRP is significantly less than the Q-rau's. I think Yamato's pricing scheme has more to do with what they think fans will pay, and that's smart business. However, speaking for myself, I'm going to pass.

* "we" reffering to MW and other fanatical American fans. Got no clue on sales and demand in Japan.

Edited December 30, 2003 by TheLoneWolf

[Neova]

I agree with most people here , the Q-rau is beautiful and I will probably buy one (Red & green maybe) but I still don´t get the ¨it should be pricey cause it´s big?philosophy.

...

I think they toy itself is quite justifiable as a great purchase , it´s just the price which is not justifiable.

Aegis,

I fully agree with you but you should re-read Hiriyu and sf648's excellent posts up a few screens. They nailed it on the head with amortized cost. The fewer units you think will be sold, the more you need to sell it for to break even.

Since this Q-Rau is a new mold and initial production cost (design, molds, plastic, marketing) will be about the same as the initial 1/48 VF-1 but Yamato may think fewer people will buy it, they need to price it accordingly. If you compare the two lines (think initial production), the Q-Rau's cost is not that bad even though we may get less (less articulation, less posability).

I would want to get one and hope sales for this will someday justify production of 1/48 Q-Raus. Yes, I WANT 1/48 Regults and Q-Raus to display next to my Valkyries and Yamato, I would like to pay no more than a 1/48 + FP combo price.

[sf648]

red, blue and purple...

the green one is the TV type.  It has many differences from the DYRL type though they look similar.

Good point Exo. That would make 4 possible variations. Red, purple and blue with only color changes, and a modified mold and color for a TV variant. Looking at one comparison of the versions it looks like a smaller more recessed head, different antenna and thicker, heavier legs.

Lone Wolf, as far as perogative being the motivating factor for Yamato, please remember that if the Q-Rau's were 50% of the cost, they would probably sell many more of them. This kind of market force is important in making many pricing decisions; while sheer greed does motivate some companies to inflate prices, most are aware that making a good comprimise between profit and price accessibility will sell more units (properly done, this leads to more net gain).

The percieved cost of an item is critical to sales. Which is the rationale behind prices like $99.99. It's almost the same as $100.00, but the psychological impact of the extra digit affects many people. I would have expected Yamato to pick Y9,800 or even Y7,800 if it had been feasible; pricing the units at Y12,800 implies that there wasn't an opportunity at under Y10,000.

Note: that at Y12,800, I'd expect costs to Yamato to run close to Y2,500 to produce each unit (including R&D, fabrication, manufacturing, Q&A, packaging, shipping and promotion). I wonder what Yamato's production yields are these days, now that they've gotten some experience with manufacturing the VF-1s for so long?

-Sandro

[pfunk]

You guys are making it sound like they have to retool for each variant. The differences from the DYRL and the TV versions would be a drop in the bucket in tooling costs. say 2 4 core chromed molds for the diferent parts cost about 10,000 (very exagerated price, and including the production and test runs) and the same goes for the diferent varients of the VF's. Most money is spent in advertising/sales and engineering, and the big mans pocket the cost to make it is close to nothing. last time I checked, ABS cost something like 2 cents a pound from Solvay Polymers and steel for the tools costs like $2000 for a block big enough to do all the lines (EDM'ing the steel can get pricey if you dont own your own machines), how much does the packaging cost, probably like 50 cents per toy, if that, so the more they make, the higher margin between investment costs and profit

[Göönk]

don't forget it's made in China where incomes are really low /worker.

So, i believe they'll release a green one. A 1/48 regult would be huge with legs unfolded. You would need to buy new sets at Ikea with custom shelves

[Rick Randy]

good points all of you. by any chance did yamato plan to release the 1/48 way before toynami released their products?

dunno I could be wrong but I noticed that yamato released their 1/60 with removable legs and hands to facilitate transformation and make it as close to the vf as possible,

(which is a good move but as a toy having to remove the legs and a fragile paint finish seems more as a model for me,not as robust as the 1/48)

then toynami released their version though not as close to the vf it had light up head and movable fingers

which sorta made up for the old style takatoku "leg connection to body"based legs.

Could it be competition (maybe not fiscal based) that encouraged a 1/48 release?Could competition from a rival Company hasten qrau variants or other macross products emerging?

as with scale watching the old series (including last episode)and movie, the regult seems about nearly twice the size of a destroid (the spartan) and valk.

with its legs in storage position one should be able to fit it in a box slightly larger/wider than a 1/48 valk provided the pilot is inside the cockpit and the extra weapons come separate.

I know I could be wrong on all points here but sacrificing some pride to be shot down by the next posts so that everyone will know what motivates a release is worth it.

educate us all.

[EXO]

As far as we know he executive of Yamato is a big Macross fan and wants to bring out the an amazing line. That would explain the helmets and the Monster. Big West tested them out with the Mac+ license and were happy enough to give them the VF-1 line. I'm glad the VF-11 hip debacle didn't deter Big West. IMO, the 1/48 was an effort to give one of the best tranformable mecha design ever a line it deserves. It's funny because I thought the 1/55 scale was a pretty good line, but can't imagine being a Macros fan without the 1/48s anymore. Let's hope that the Yamato executive is a bigger Macross nut that we know of.

[jdebord]

I've been mostly a lurker on these boards for quite some time, but this release is something I'm definitely excited about. Since I'm "pick and choose" when it comes to this particular hobby (there is only so many dollars to go around), it's nice to finally see a villian piece come along, rather than endless variants of valks. Hopefully a sign of things to come.

I'd love to see one of these pictured next to a 1/60 valk, so I could get a sense of how big it is...

Anyway, as someone with a small Macross collection, this one is a must buy for me.

Jason

[EXO]

the pic was a couple of pages back...

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/uploads/po...-1072581003.jpg

I'm gonna put mine next to my 1/48 Max (hopefully 1S)... scales be damned!!!

[Abombz!!]

Actually... you are not paying for the size, you are paying for the little blocks that will keep that thing standing on its own.

It was nice how hlj "erased" them from that picture, because that thing sure as hell can't stand on its own.

Aside from that.... I have a pair of mullets ready to support 1 of them.

[Yamato Lover]

I was really psyched about the Q-Rau, was even planning on buying a second one to do a "White Death" custom out of it...until I found out that it doesn't stand on its own.

Pass...

But thanks for the effort, Yamato. <_<

[bandit29]

I was really psyched about the Q-Rau, was even planning on buying a second one to do a "White Death" custom out of it...until I found out that it doesn't stand on its own.

Pass...

But thanks for the effort, Yamato. <_<

Well we don't know if it can or can't stand on its own yet. Since that's all about it does, I would think the final product would be able to stand. Unless this comes with a display stand and no I don't mean the clear boxes lol

Edited January 2, 2004 by dejr8bud

[Myersjessee]

...The regult has the problem that it would require retooling for each variation (regular, missle, and scout), and might not have the penetration that the Q-Rau has.

...

I would disagree with this statement only based on the 1/100 and 1/200 scale models of the Regults. (perhaps they are not acurate, and thus my confusion) but the Lg and Sm missile pod seem identical to the standard regult minus...well the missiles. Standard regult in the 1/200 model is identical with two antenna that go in the hole where the missiles would go. This is what I thought Yamato would latch onto...similar to the 1/60 line and QRau...they could make 1 model (standard Regult) then minimal mods (more then color, but comparable to doing the armor say on the VF1 series) to release the small and large missile varients. Then, considering the success of the Low Vis perhaps 1 other custom version (or 2) could be released. Different paint job, weathering or what have you. The Scout, finally, would be akin to going to the Elint in 1/60. Would be a whole mod...with only really the legs being reusable for the new one...but having those down and all the kinks worked out means you only have to design and do the body....this one, of all of them, I could see them easily skipping based on sales.

Glaug, well thats a whole other problem...but the Glaug is arguably the most popular here in the US. Due to ties with Battletech you still see 1/72 scale model Glaugs selling for $100 or more while the rest of the market has dropped some.

I sure hope the QRau does well and they keep doing the other "enemy" mecha.

[Abombz!!]

was even planning on buying a second one to do a "White Death" custom out of it

*shudders*

[EXO]

was even planning on buying a second one to do a "White Death" custom out of it

*shudders*

[Agent ONE]

I was really psyched about the Q-Rau, was even planning on buying a second one to do a "White Death" custom out of it...

Well if you do make a "White Death" custom you can put THIS symbol in the shoulder.

[Uxi]

Damn it! I want to see discussion on this toy, not A1 and Abombz own version of dramaqueen'ing. Is there ANY point to your posts that isn't better left to PM?

I think this thing is overpriced, even considering size... but this could be mitigated by an articulated (think the newer Star Wars lines if not GI Joe 3 3/4) pilot. I most likely WILL be waiting to see if there are sales later... Think how much the 1/60s were going for when they first came out, though... I do think the Q-rau should sell pretty well, though obviously in smaller volume... Green TV variant seems likely. It's easily comparable to the TV Max/Milia 1J. It can capitalize from the same mold with only paint changes and noone is gonna complain.

It had BETTER stand on its own, though... course I seem to have gotten a cherry YF-21FP, so I'm not particularly worried about it.

Check the Kawamori Macross Designworks... The Regult doesn't appear to differ between standard and missile versions. EDIT: On the main body. Of course the two top cannons are replaced by the missile pods, if it needs to be clarified... [/edit] This is easily the VF-1 variant syndrome going here. Throw in repaints and it's a cincher. Price will probably be high but that pilot could do wonders to make certain people more willing to buy.

That said, Myersjesse got it right, the Glaug is probably more popular and it would be nice if Yamato could make a deal to sell it as a Battletech thing... but then we come to Harmony Gold and FASA again.

Edited January 2, 2004 by Uxi

[Abombz!!]

Damn it! I want to see discussion on this toy, not A1 and Abombz own version of dramaqueen'ing. Is there ANY point to your posts that isn't better left to PM?

Nice way to react.... want the drama queen title too?

Maybe if you look a few pages ago, I did post my comments on it. And why me? Exo made a post that amounted to just about as much as mine did, and I don't see you complaining about it.

And please... explain how the f*ck making a post in response to a name that brings back memories is considered being a drama queen? It had 3 emoticons in it.... give me a @#$%ing break! And even my pervious post.... I said I was getting one, how is that drama? Do I need to ramble on and on about how oversized and how overpriced the damn toy is? Thats makes a crap load of sense... really.

EDIT: if you want dramaqueening.... just re-read this entire thread.... its the typical case of Yamato drama. <_<

P.S. And is there ANY point to your post that someone hasn't said before.... but better?

Edited January 2, 2004 by Abombz!!

[Uxi]

That specific post had nothing but your emoticons and the shudder. I don't care about the previous drama and I let the rest of my post be my point ON TOPIC. Whether it's been voiced before or not, I don't give a damn, I'm pitching in my 2 centicreds like everyone else ON TOPIC... In that single specific post (the emoticons and the shudder), you're doing nothing but either post-whoring or drama-queening OFF TOPIC, either way.

Exo laughed at it, in typical messageboard/mailing list/chatroom style. I don't have a problem with that (that's the mods problem, not mine). I read yours more in the line of the personal attack area which is why I mentioned you... though I think far less than A-1's. I like yours and A1's participation in other posts (regardless of what I think of the specific opinions) but this anti-Quad vendetta some are on is extremely annoying.

Edited January 2, 2004 by Uxi

[Agent ONE]

That specific post had nothing but your emoticons and the shudder. I don't care about the previous drama and I let the rest of my post be my point ON TOPIC. Whether it's been voiced before or not, I don't give a damn, I'm pitching in my 2 centicreds like everyone else ON TOPIC... In that single specific post (the emoticons and the shudder), you're doing nothing but either post-whoring or drama-queening OFF TOPIC, either way.

Exo laughed at it, in typical messageboard/mailing list/chatroom style. I don't have a problem with that (that's the mods problem, not mine). I read yours more in the line of the personal attack area which is why I mentioned you... though I think far less than A-1's. I like yours and A1's participation in other posts (regardless of what I think of the specific opinions) but this anti-Quad vendetta some are on is extremely annoying.

Oh man, you probably didn't see it but the person in question totally fuct up a place I formerly hung out on the web. I'd hate the same thing to happen here.

[Abombz!!]

That specific post had nothing but your emoticons. I don't care about the previous drama and I let the rest of my post be my point. Whether it's been voiced before or not, I don't give a damn, I'm pitching in my 2 centicreds like everyone else ON TOPIC... That single specific post (the emoticons and the shudder) You're doing nothing but either post-whoring or drama-queening, either way in this single specific post.

Exo laughed at it, in typical messageboard/mailing list/chatroom style. I don't have a problem with that (that's the mods problem, not mine). I read yours more in the line of the personal attack area which is why I mentioned you... though I think far less than A-1's. I like yours and A1's participation in other posts (regardless of what I think of the opinions) but this anti-Quad vendetta some are on is extremely annoying.

So wait.... any off topic post is either post whoring or drama-queening? Have you been drinking the bong water alot lately, or are we all supposed to walk with a stick up our asses all the time? Please, enlighten me, I don't see how my post is drama-queening in any way.

And I just love Quad knights... seriously, you ppl love to burn other ppl at the stake at the slight mention of her.... get a life! I wasn't being anti-Quad, my post was in regards to all the crap that happened last time it was mentioned, regardless of her being involved or not. So cool your guns down.... I could really give a crap if she was back or not, or if she was posting under a different alias to keep a low profile.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm here to have fun, so I will post whatever the heck I want to post unless told otherwise, by a mod. Just as you chose to post the same crap everyone has already said before... but better.

[Vostok 7]

And I just love Quad knights...

They're almost as bad as Max Jenius' goons. <_<

Oh wait

Vostok 7

[Abombz!!]

I read yours more in the line of the personal attack area which is why I mentioned you

And you didn't read it... you simply assumed it. Seriously... I could be shuddering at the fact that he is taking an expensive toy and painting it. How do you know thats not what I meant? After all I didn't just quote the "White death" part of his post. You jumped the guns awfully bad there. <_<

I build models, I paint them... and honestly, customizing toys is not something I do and I feel sorry for those who do it, willingly. Because toys are a pain to paint.

Edited January 2, 2004 by Abombz!!

[Uxi]

So wait.... any off topic post is either post whoring or drama-queening? Have you been drinking the bong water alot lately, or are we all supposed to walk with a stick up our asses all the time? Please, enlighten me, I don't see how my post is drama-queening in any way.

I never made any generalizations on all posting, I'm talking about very specific ones. I also left the option of post whoring in there for yours, as well as dramaqueening (so which was it?). So you can pull your head (or stick or whatever) out of your ass any time u like.

Like you, I don't care whether she posts or not or under what alias (heh, my guns ARE cool). Like you, I'm gonna post for fun when I like, and I don't care if you think it's been done before (though you're welcome to point out references to the Designworks line art of the Regult or the support of Myersjesse postulation of Battletech tie-in/release of the Glaug. Sucka!

[Abombz!!]

So wait.... any off topic post is either post whoring or drama-queening? Have you been drinking the bong water alot lately, or are we all supposed to walk with a stick up our asses all the time? Please, enlighten me, I don't see how my post is drama-queening in any way.

I never made any generalizations on all posting, I'm talking about very specific ones. I also left the option of post whoring in there for yours, as well as dramaqueening (so which was it?). So you can pull your head (or stick or whatever) out of your ass any time u like.

I see your reasoning.... so basically, if anyone makes a post that is off topic, they are post whoring and drama queening?

And you still haven't explained to me how it was drama queening.... so I suggest your pull your head out of your ass and explain other wise you will continue to make yourself look like an ass. <_<

[Uxi]

I read yours more in the line of the personal attack area which is why I mentioned you

And you didn't read it... you simply assumed it. Seriously... I could be shuddering at the fact that he is taking an expensive toy and painting it. How do you know thats not what I meant? After all I didn't just quote the "White death" part of his post. You jumped the guns awfully bad there.

I build models, I paint them... and honestly, customizing toys is not something I do and I feel sorry for those who do it, willingly. Because toys are a pain to paint.

You could be. But were you?

Just because you lack the talent (and maybe money) to customize in Yamato Macross toys, would they be a reason to mock those that do?

I jump no guns, but you're being awfully defensive there...

[Abombz!!]

I read yours more in the line of the personal attack area which is why I mentioned you

And you didn't read it... you simply assumed it. Seriously... I could be shuddering at the fact that he is taking an expensive toy and painting it. How do you know thats not what I meant? After all I didn't just quote the "White death" part of his post. You jumped the guns awfully bad there. <_<

I build models, I paint them... and honestly, customizing toys is not something I do and I feel sorry for those who do it, willingly. Because toys are a pain to paint.

Just because you lack the talent (and maybe money) to customize in Yamato Macross toys, would they be a reason to mock those that do?

I jump no guns, but you're being awfully defensive there...

So shuddering is a mock... along with being a drama-queen?

You could be.  But were you? 

You are not sure now, and you weren't sure back then... therefore your jumped the guns, period. <_<

Edited January 2, 2004 by Abombz!!

[Uxi]

So wait.... any off topic post is either post whoring or drama-queening? Have you been drinking the bong water alot lately, or are we all supposed to walk with a stick up our asses all the time? Please, enlighten me, I don't see how my post is drama-queening in any way.

I never made any generalizations on all posting, I'm talking about very specific ones. I also left the option of post whoring in there for yours, as well as dramaqueening (so which was it?). So you can pull your head (or stick or whatever) out of your ass any time u like.

I see your reasoning.... so basically, if anyone makes a post that is off topic, they are post whoring and drama queening?

Again, I never made any generalizations on all posting. I'm talking about very specific ones (yours and A-1's).

You need glasses to see that reasoning?

[Abombz!!]

So wait.... any off topic post is either post whoring or drama-queening? Have you been drinking the bong water alot lately, or are we all supposed to walk with a stick up our asses all the time? Please, enlighten me, I don't see how my post is drama-queening in any way.

I never made any generalizations on all posting, I'm talking about very specific ones. I also left the option of post whoring in there for yours, as well as dramaqueening (so which was it?). So you can pull your head (or stick or whatever) out of your ass any time u like.

I see your reasoning.... so basically, if anyone makes a post that is off topic, they are post whoring and drama queening?

Again, I never made any generalizations on all posting. I'm talking about very specific ones (yours and A-1's).

You need glasses to see that reasoning?

I do... and so do I... because you haven't realized I was, and still am talking about the 3 emoticons *shudder* post. How is that drama-queening?

[Uxi]

You need glasses to see that reasoning?

I do... and so do I... because you haven't realized I was, and still am talking about the 3 emoticons *shudder* post. How is that drama-queening?

I didn't say it WAS drama-queening. I specifically mentioned it could be post-whoring as well...

 

You could be.  But were you? 

You are not sure now, and you weren't sure back then... therefore your jumped the guns, period.

No, I was asking you which it was.

Ah no jumped guns there.

[Vostok 7]

[ben-man] can't we all just get along? [/ben-man]

Vostok 7

[Abombz!!]

I didn't say it WAS drama-queening. I specifically mentioned it could be post-whoring as well...

And you also specifically mentioned it could be drama-queening.... which have failed to explain how you thought it was drama queening. <_<

No, I was asking you which it was.

Ah no jumped guns there. 

You are asking something... therefore you are not sure. And you accused me of attacking someone... when I did not. Or even better... you "read" it as me attacking someone, when I obviously did not. You jumped the guns.

You also failed to explain how shuddering is a mock. <_<

Edited January 2, 2004 by Abombz!!

[Uxi]

I didn't say it WAS drama-queening. I specifically mentioned it could be post-whoring as well...

And you also specifically mentioned it could be drama-queening.... which have failed to explain how you thought it was drama queening.

I didn't explain how it could be post whoring, either. Do I really need to? I'm not a drama queen... I don't know how they think. I think it was one or the other, though I didn't consider it could be both... Can you say which it was?

No, I was asking you which it was.

Ah no jumped guns there. 

You are asking something... therefore you are not sure. And you accused me of attacking someone... when I did not. Or even better... you "read" it as me attacking someone, when I obviously did not. You jumped the guns.

No, I accused of either post whoring or drama-queening, not flaming. There's a difference.

So which was it?

[Abombz!!]

No, I accused of either post whoring or drama-queening, not flaming. There's a difference.

I read yours more in the line of the personal attack area which is why I mentioned you...

You accused me of personally attacking Yamato lover.

I didn't explain how it could be post whoring, either. Do I really need to?  I'm not a drama queen... I don't know how they think.  I think it was one or the other, though I didn't consider it could be both... Can you say which it was?

No... because post whoring is easy to explain and gets thrown around alot. But its obvious that you pulled the whole drama-queen comment out of your ass. <_<

You also failed to explain how shuddering is a mock.

Please.... and answer to this too. <_<

Edited January 2, 2004 by Abombz!!

[Abombz!!]

Do I really need to?  I'm not a drama queen... I don't know how they think.

If I didn't know better.... I would really flame you for this. You are just saying that you accused me of being a drama-queen... when you don't even know what drama-queen is like?

And in that line of thought... you have no grounds to accuse me of post whoring. You are not a post whore, you don't know what post whoring is like!

Edited January 2, 2004 by Abombz!!