spanner Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Good footage of a PAK FA demo from MAKS. Awesome! Friggin love this jet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grigolosi Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Unfortunately its true performance ability is still waiting to be tapped. The current engine is only an interim one until the new powerplant can be designed. The 117 (AL-31) still has compressor stall issues and one caught fire and severely damaged one of the prototypes. It is a beautiful design though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 yes its definitely one of the nicest jet fighters around! should be interesting to see how much better it is with new engines. Its supposed to be able to super cruise up to or beyond mach 1.6+ but whether or not that's with the new engines or not I don't know.. I reckon this thing will give the F-22 a good run for the money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grigolosi Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 The information I could find stated the Al-3's were rated at 33,000 lbs in afterburner, 26,000 lbs in mil setting. The F-119 is currently rated at 35K+ in burner. Dry thrust is the same. I actually read somewhere else the 119 is actually rated around 40K in burner. It will be interesting to see how well the Russian systems fair. Their engine's lifespans are a lot lower than ours. Plus they are still dealing with compressor stalls, something which both GE and P&W have been able to prevent now with thier newer engines. I have seen only one F-16 compressor stall with a GE engine and the pilot had to completely screw the pooch in a climb while chasing a Tornado F-3. It actually took the GE AFREPS doing a minute by minute analysis of the engine operation download to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Still doubt the PAK FA produces an RCS near as small as the F-22s. The issue facing the F-22 right now is slow development. Not receiving the helmet-mounted display till 2020 or the AIM-120D for another 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vepariga Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Really love how the PAK FA just floats in the air, thing of beauty to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted December 6, 2015 Author Share Posted December 6, 2015 It looks even more like a YF-23 in motion than it does in static pics. Head-on, you could be fooled. It's gorgeous in-flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 I think its one of the most beautiful shapes of planes flying today! Yes it most likely won't have quite as small RCS as a Raptor but nor will it be anywhere near as expensive to develop or produce. A factor that will work both for and against it. But then again the Russians have always seemed to be able to get a good or better bang for the buck ratio out of their planes (purely on a cost basis) compared to the much more expensive American or even eastern European fighters such as the Eurofighter and Rafale. I have no doubt it will be a very effective plane. Yes the Russians can't spend the mega bucks but those guys aren't stupid either and know exactly what they are doing. Im so keen to see how much they improve this plane nearer to its introduction and with new engines! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grigolosi Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 (edited) The Russians have always worked their way around problems designing aircraft by going the simplest route. Take the Mig-25. When we first saw one up close our Aero engineers realized they had used mostly steel in its frame and only used Titanium on the areas that truly required it since they were just starting to be able to process the ore. They also used exposed bolts on the frame by placing them in areas that were not exposed to aerodynamic drag. They also created a vacuum tube specifically for use at high altitude since they still weren't using transistor technology yet. The PAK FA will be one of the first aircraft developed by them that is using mostly composite materials instead of metals in the frame. Their engine technology is one of the few things holding back its performance. Edited December 6, 2015 by grigolosi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 gorgeous Japanese Phantoms taking off from Nyutabaru air base.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grigolosi Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) Went TDY there in 96 for a Cope North exercise. Got to see them boresighting the 20 mm on one of their birds. That ramp is tiny compared to most air bases. We had the joy of having 5 out of 6 of our aircraft being filled with contaminated JP-8 from a Kadena KC-135. One aircraft IFE'd in with fuel dumping from its fuel vent on the left wing. Crew Chief found a big piece of cheese cloth sticking out of the A/R connect up top while he was preflighting the aircraft. Love those F-4's though, the only aircraft that looks like it is saying "thank god" when it touches down on the runway and its main struts compress with the weight. Edited December 8, 2015 by grigolosi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 what contaminated the fuel? And what was the cheese cloth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grigolosi Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 The Isochronal inspections on KC-135's require that the refueling tanks be emptied and cleaned out. Some jackass left pieces of cheese cloth ( we use it for wiping the canopy) in the tanks. Cheese cloth is literally what is sounds like. It is used for making certain cheeses, it is very light, soft and absorbent. This stuff though broke down when left in the fuel tank of the tanker and small bits and pieces got into our F-16's (5 aircraft) fuel systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-ZeroOne Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 So... was one of the pilots callsigns "Wedge"...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 The Isochronal inspections on KC-135's require that the refueling tanks be emptied and cleaned out. Some jackass left pieces of cheese cloth ( we use it for wiping the canopy) in the tanks. Cheese cloth is literally what is sounds like. It is used for making certain cheeses, it is very light, soft and absorbent. This stuff though broke down when left in the fuel tank of the tanker and small bits and pieces got into our F-16's (5 aircraft) fuel systems. oh.. that wasn't very clever who ever did that! Can they find out who it was that did it? Seeing that it caused downtime and additional costs.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grigolosi Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I know they figured out who did it. As for whether they were punished, I have no idea. That debacle affected aircraft state sides also. We were told that at least 1 B-1 and several other fighter units were grounded due to this one tanker. It happened back in 1996. The JASDF was not happy since we ended wasting a lot of JP-4 flushing out the fuel systems on our aircraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 sh!t eh.. one mans screw up caused some serious repercussions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grigolosi Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 That is all it takes. Typical of aircraft maintenance. That is also the reason there are so many safety precautions established as orders in maintenance even for stuff that should be common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electric indigo Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 That's why you better write some comprehensive instructions on your plane: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 That's why you better write some comprehensive instructions on your plane: Or not let numb nuts work on the planes! Hehe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyg Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 That's why you better write some comprehensive instructions on your plane: That's just insane! I thought the F-4 was bad... Is that a Foxhound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grigolosi Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 All fighters have some forms of written instructions somewhere on them. Even simple stuff like opening the canopy or the external emergency canopy jettison panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electric indigo Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Is that a Foxhound? Yes, one from Algeria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grigolosi Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Whats funny is that all those signs are in Cyrillic. While most Algerians speak a French based Arabic. They must have been old Russian AF aircraft they bought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-ZeroOne Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 "You must... think... in Russian!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 (edited) "You must... think... in Russian!" Maybe for the Mig-41. I have to admit, for as strange as the Su-34 looks with its platypus nose, it's really grown on me as a decent looking fighter/bomber. Edited December 11, 2015 by Shadow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickyg Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Yes, one from Algeria. Yes! My uncanny (and as yet, completely worthless) ability to recognise shapes and details belonging to things, strikes again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Maybe for the Mig-41. I have to admit, for as strange as the Su-34 looks with its platypus nose, it's really grown on me as a decent looking fighter/bomber. I often feel the very same way about it myself. Never been a big fan of that nose and the wide side by side cockpit setup but it has grown on me somewhat. Still some days i dont mind it and other days i dont care for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grigolosi Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 That is what happens when you leave a bird of prey and platypus together with a bottle of wine........weird things happen..........and months later.....BAM! An SU-34 is born! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 Plus what crew would complain when you have a sleeping compartment behind you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electric indigo Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 That's why you better write some comprehensive instructions on your plane: I just realized that these are actually ACTIVE STEALTH spells... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Plus what crew would complain when you have a sleeping compartment behind you. Crews that have to loiter long enough to need it. So, in much more interesting news, the 737 MAX rolled out on schedule this week, and something something Honda Jet? How decidedly undramatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 So, in much more interesting news, the 737 MAX rolled out on schedule this week, Meanwhile, the 757 is in such high demand I believe there are zero for sale or lease right now, and 717's go to the highest bidder, and even major flagship carriers are fighting amongst themselves to grab every one that pops up. But Boeing thought that new 737 variants could replace everything (especially a Douglas design) and cancelled both too early. My god, the sales a re-engined 757MAX would get right now... The A321 is selling like bonkers the last few years not because it's a great plane, but because it's the closest thing to a 757 you can get. AA and DL would buy a bunch of new 757's if they could, but they can't. A321=the inferior 757 rival. Well, now it has no rival, so it's the best-in-class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanner Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) Meanwhile, the 757 is in such high demand I believe there are zero for sale or lease right now, and 717's go to the highest bidder, and even major flagship carriers are fighting amongst themselves to grab every one that pops up. But Boeing thought that new 737 variants could replace everything (especially a Douglas design) and cancelled both too early. My god, the sales a re-engined 757MAX would get right now... The A321 is selling like bonkers the last few years not because it's a great plane, but because it's the closest thing to a 757 you can get. AA and DL would buy a bunch of new 757's if they could, but they can't. A321=the inferior 757 rival. Well, now it has no rival, so it's the best-in-class. I wonder if Boeing has considered re-starting production.. but then they would have to have guaranteed orders in significant quantities to justify the costs involved. Even the last examples produced are now over a decade old and these things would be accumulating a sh!t load of flying hours/cycles being what they are. And yes I'd imagine the scramble for these things would be pretty crazy then! Edited December 12, 2015 by spanner76 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grigolosi Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Well unlike the military production. When airliner production is cancelled, the tooling equipment is generally not destroyed. The biggest costs would be to establish a new production site and train the work force to manufacture it again, IF they even have to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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