Vifam7 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 You can`t really comment until you live in the country for a reasonable period of time and get to know mainstream Japanese views of Japanese people. 90% honestly believe Japan was the innocent VICTIM of World War 2, have no knowledge of what the Imperial Army did in Asia, the Pacific or Australia. The Woe is Me victim complex is mainstream here. Japanese school textbooks have Grave of the Fireflies reworkings as English lessons. Some are about the A-bombs - "One day a bomb fell from the sky...", some are just about a kid in WWII who`s sister dies of starvation like in Grave. They give no context for WHY a bomb fell from the sky, or that kid starved, just paint Japan as the angelic victim of war. Grave of the Fireflies does nothing more than perpetuate this. Where is the mainstream program available to Japanese about the little Chinese kid who`s Mom is raped and murdered by Japanese troops, who`s father is experimented on by Unit 731? I know American entertainment honestly looks at America`s sins, look at the recent "Redacted" or every Vietnam war movie ever made, but Japan DOES NOT. It LOVES to see itself as the poor innocent VICTIM and EVERY Japanese kid sees Grave of the Fireflies and believes it even more. It`s an apologist piece of PROPAGANDA, no doubt. I happen to be Japanese and I find your post highly offensive. And I (as well as my parents) reject all of your viewpoints. Oh yeah, wasn't political discussion not allowed here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 not only is political stuff not allowed... but man... when are you guys not going to get into the whole... I lived in Japan argument when it comes to this stuff? back to lame anime discussion please!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles316 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 As the question is quite broad, there's no one, simple answer. Here's a start for the reading that needs to be done, and it should guide you to sources that can provide fuller answers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_...Debate_in_Japan Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) not only is political stuff not allowed... but man... when are you guys not going to get into the whole... I lived in Japan argument when it comes to this stuff? back to lame anime discussion please!!! Speaking of WWII...what about the Nazi scenes in Legend of the Overfiend? THAT was insulting to anyone's intelligence... EDIT: I realized that I made in sound like the rest of Overfiend WASN'T insulting. But it is. Deeply insulting. Edited June 3, 2009 by Gubaba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilSpex Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Hi. Live in Japan. Have lived in Japan for more than a reasonable period of time. Am more than well aware of the history textbook revisions. You are misunderstanding something about Japan. They are ashamed of it. The people are not rewriting it, but mostly brushing it under the carpet and trying their best to forget about it. We're not talking about an editorial bias on things. We're talking about bare footnotes in history textbooks. Now, given your comments, you're most likely someone who is from one of the countries that suffered Japanese aggression during that time period, and/or are talking about a different movie. Grave of the Fireflies is many things, including the portrayl of the harshness of war sans politics, but it is not a rewriting of history. As someone who is proving themselves to be anti-Japan, shouldn't you be encouraging anything that reminds people of history, and informs the youth of the past? I am not anti Japanese, I am anti nationalism. My own country Australia has suffered from it in the recent past aswell. Theres a big difference between patriotism and nationalism. Patriotism is trying to help your country be better, nationalism is denying it ever does wrong. I see Japan sliding into nationalism more and more and movies like Grave of the Fireflies that paint Japan as the victim of war without giving any context as to why war came to Japan (Aggression by Japan) aren`t helping. And regarding American movies... can you honestly say that Pearl Harbour isn't Imperial America apologist historical revisionism? Not all "historical" movies from the USA are as high and mighty as your trying to make them out to be. Yet for every Pearl Harbor there are 10 American movies that show America as the bad guy doing bad things. Can you name ONE Japanese movie about World War Two that even slightly goes into what evils the Japanese did in Asia? I would be very interested to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilSpex Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) I happen to be Japanese and I find your post highly offensive. Good. That means it struck a nerve and might make you think about your country`s direction. And I (as well as my parents) reject all of your viewpoints. Do you reject that Japanese see their country as the innocent victim of World War 2 and acknowledge that the Japanese Imperial forces did A LOT of bad things? OR do you reject that Japan did anything bad in World War 2? If its the latter you have just confirmed my stereotype of Japanese who see Japan as an innocent victim. Edited June 3, 2009 by MilSpex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilSpex Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 How did Japan explain WWII thirty years ago, or right after WWII ended? did this revisionist history come about in the last ten or twenty years? My issue isn`t so much with the revisionist history its in the mainstream perception of the youth that only Japan suffered in World War 2. This belief is so mainstream that the theme comes up in Junior High School ENGLISH lessons where it has no place. Why do Japanese kids need to read about A-bomb victims in English class? It`s because Japanese love to remind their children at every opportunity just how much Japan suffered while never mentioning what Japan did to other countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Speaking of WWII...what about the Nazi scenes in Legend of the Overfiend? THAT was insulting to anyone's intelligence... EDIT: I realized that I made in sound like the rest of Overfiend WASN'T insulting. But it is. Deeply insulting. It's more disturbing than insulting. But it's porn, tentacle porn, you really can't expect any better. movies like Grave of the Fireflies that paint Japan as the victim of war without giving any context as to why war came to Japan (Aggression by Japan) aren`t helping. I don't really see how lack of context is making Japan look like the victim at all. The lack of context is really just part of an effort to divorce the story from any outside political elements and make it NOT about who's at fault.It's not about placing blame or defending anything. It's not even about the evils of war, it's about how at their most basic level most people are fundamentally despicable creatures that only care for themselves. The war and the bombings are nothing more then symbols of incomprehensible tragedy. You could substitute any nation in any war or even get rid of the war element entirely and use a natural disaster like an earthquake and it wouldn't change the overal story at all. The only reason the film is set during WWII is because that was Akiyuki Nosaka's personal experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilSpex Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 (edited) 　 I don't really see how lack of context is making Japan look like the victim at all. The lack of context is really just part of an effort to divorce the story from any outside political elements and make it NOT about who's at fault.It's not about placing blame or defending anything. It's not even about the evils of war, it's about how at their most basic level most people are fundamentally despicable creatures that only care for themselves. The war and the bombings are nothing more then symbols of incomprehensible tragedy. You could substitute any nation in any war or even get rid of the war element entirely and use a natural disaster like an earthquake and it wouldn't change the overal story at all. The only reason the film is set during WWII is because that was Akiyuki Nosaka's personal experience. Um, no. The story clearly takes place in JAPAN and from memory American bombers are seen flying overhead. The suffering in the movie is clearly caused by THE AMERICANS. The problem is that the young viewer thinks the Americans were picking on Japan for no reason. Just becuase Japan was weak whereas they never really learn WHY they were being bombed. I`ve seen it many many times here in Japan where I live, in anime and manga (Grave, Barerfoot Gen) in English textbooks for Japanese Junior High Schools, in educational comic books for youth in town community centres, The story begins with the bombing of Japan, conventional or nuclear or the invasion of Iwo Jima by American troops and ends with a Japanese kid dying. None of the stories begin where Japan invaded China and Asia or bombed Pearl Harbor to give the stories context, they ALL invariably begin with the bombing or attack on Japan. Maybe if Grave had begun with a montage of Japanese troops ransacking Asia, then losing some battles and being pushed back to their country I wouldn`t put the movie in the same propaganda category. But it doesn`t. It doesn`t make any effort to show why Japan was suffering, so its nationalist propaganda in my book. Same as many other pieces of entertainment/"education" for children here. Edited June 3, 2009 by MilSpex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retracting Head Ter Ter Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 The whole 'High School' kids with super abilities that save the world while still having to attend classes in daytime HAD ALWAYS INSULTED MY INTELLIGENCE! Seriously, your best military assets to protect your dang colony is manned by high school kids and they are still attending school?!?!?! That insulted my intellect much more than any SDFM 'copying'. At least Max and Hikaru didn't have to attend classes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retracting Head Ter Ter Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 How did Japan explain WWII thirty years ago, or right after WWII ended? did this revisionist history come about in the last ten or twenty years? Hasn't changed. Japan attempted to liberate the its Asian neighbours from chaos and western imperialism and create a 'Co-Prosperity Sphere'. The Western powers didn't like that and imposed a strict embargo which forced Japan's hand. Oh, and less then 10 or 30 thousand civilians died in Nanjing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 political crap has to stop or we start handing out suspensions... how about you guys quit discussing Grave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 It doesn`t make any effort to show why Japan was suffering, so its nationalist propaganda in my book. so you're say that because it doesn't get into the politics of the war, it's political propaganda. Great logic there, bucko. And you've also managed to completely miss my point which was that Just because the catalyst of the story is a Japanese city being bombed by American's DOES NOT mean that is what the story is about. the bombing is only included in the narrative because it provides cause for all the subsequent events of the story. It's a MacGuffin used to explain why these two kids are wandering around all alone starving to death and no body seams to give a poo about it. That's it. the Japanese being bombed is not some kind of nefarious attempt by studio Ghibli to promote nationalism and the view that the Japanese were the poor undeserving victims of THE EVIL AMERICANS. It is a mater-of-fact and easily replaceable event that moves the story along. They use the war in the movie because that's what happened in the book, and it's in the book because the author lived through it as a kid. including some ridiculous montage recounting the history of the war in order to make the movie self-deprecating enough to the Japanese that it makes you happy adds absolutely nothing to the story, ruins the narrative by bringing in outside events that have no bearing on the core characters and distracts from the REAL message of the movie by making even more about who's to blame for the war than it ever was in the first place (which it wasn't at all). there's really no point in arguing this any further, as you've clearly missed the point of both my argument and the movie, or are just flat out ignoring both and would rather continue to believe that grave is part of some grand Jap conspiracy to cover up all the bad things they did during WWII. I disagree with you but I really don't feel like getting dragged into a political debate that we're clearly not supposed to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 The whole 'High School' kids with super abilities that save the world while still having to attend classes in daytime HAD ALWAYS INSULTED MY INTELLIGENCE! Seriously, your best military assets to protect your dang colony is manned by high school kids and they are still attending school?!?!?! That insulted my intellect much more than any SDFM 'copying'. At least Max and Hikaru didn't have to attend classes! Eh, it worked in FMP and Evangelion. I find the execution more than the act itself to be at fault. there have been some show's where it was absolutely moronic, like Code Geass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I disagree with you but I really don't feel like getting dragged into a political debate that we're clearly not supposed to have. too late... suspended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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