Commander McBride Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 I'd dispute that. How about the G-11? Sure, it didn't enter production, but it was a pretty original design. Or, while it could be called an SMG, the P-90? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentrandude Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 I'd dispute that. How about the G-11? Sure, it didn't enter production, but it was a pretty original design. Or, while it could be called an SMG, the P-90? i never liked the 30 year old design of the g11. the case with any gun is realy nothing its just there to hold the primer and powder while prevent the gas from escaping into the block throught the firing pin and other nooks and crannys due to old design flaws and such. the g11 in my mind is still a cased ammo using gun since instead of brass or steel its the powder itself made into the case. the chamber still does all the work keeping it in on both designs. i dont realy call it original, the chamber is just a drum and spins around like a clock or those who reload a powder measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Border Red Devil Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 (edited) Well.... someone finally managed to make a massproduced semi-automatic .303 Bren Gun reciever! Of course, its still around $2400. But they did it. Also, someone posted, for those that want them, about a semi-automatic conversion kit for the Sten, to make them BATF legal. Bizarre thing is this company is like 4 miles from where I live. SemiautoSten.com Edited January 25, 2005 by 1st Border Red Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 From a technical standpoint, the G11 will be one of those "could have been" designs. It was the pretty groundbreaking in many areas and it must have been absolutely heartbreaking for the engineers when it was shelved after ~25 years of R&D, on the eve of entering mass production no less. However there were some issues that I think would have come up in real world use that would have needed to be addressed. The 4.7mm ammunition would have likely had worse wounding characteristics than the current 5.56 fired from a shorty M4. The three 45 round mags in the gun would have come in handy in a quick firefight, but in sustained fire it would have been a real PITA to reload those things from the 15 round "cartridges" that soldiers were to be issued. Finally I've read conflicting reports as to how well the G11 actually stood up to use. Some say that the caseless ammo burned extremely cleanly and caused little fouling, others claim that it gummed up the gun worse than any M16 and suffered from significant throat erosion. Dynamit Nobel claimed that the caseless ammo was waterproof while others claim it was very sensitive. Interesting fact: Apparently when the G11 ws finally dropped, H&K Germany had to destroy most if not all of its preproduction samples. Some of the few remaining G11s are supposedly in Canada, after their use in NATO trials 10 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain america Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 In the vein of "gun talk" but slightly off-topic...Theoretically, where would one go to find financing to develop new firearms designs? If it's too sensitive a topic to discuss here, please feel free to send me a PM anyone. very little. Guns designs are very old and any machinist can design and make one if he wanted to and go to federal jail if living in the US..... and has the tools to do it. Considering Guns are hundreds of years old and the design hasn't have a major design change yet (Still shooting a metal spit wad down a tube). Now if some super evil villian made a airsoft gun so powerful that it can shoot a 223(556) at the same speed as gun powder would now that would be insane. basicly that would be a true caseless gun. I'm not talking about modifying existing weapons in a little back-room, I mean new, LEGITIMATE firearms concepts designed/manufactured from scratch. Safer, more accurate , more compact, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentrandude Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 In the vein of "gun talk" but slightly off-topic...Theoretically, where would one go to find financing to develop new firearms designs? If it's too sensitive a topic to discuss here, please feel free to send me a PM anyone. very little. Guns designs are very old and any machinist can design and make one if he wanted to and go to federal jail if living in the US..... and has the tools to do it. Considering Guns are hundreds of years old and the design hasn't have a major design change yet (Still shooting a metal spit wad down a tube). Now if some super evil villian made a airsoft gun so powerful that it can shoot a 223(556) at the same speed as gun powder would now that would be insane. basicly that would be a true caseless gun. I'm not talking about modifying existing weapons in a little back-room, I mean new, LEGITIMATE firearms concepts designed/manufactured from scratch. Safer, more accurate , more compact, etc... not talking about modding weps you can easily design your own and make it if you have the tools and materials for it. You skill depends on how good it is in quality. for example Philipino guns made by gunsmiths work ok but don't last long cuz they not very durable. but its cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechamaniac Posted January 25, 2005 Author Share Posted January 25, 2005 (edited) Well....someone finally managed to make a massproduced semi-automatic .303 Bren Gun reciever! Of course, its still around $2400. But they did it. Also, someone posted, for those that want them, about a semi-automatic conversion kit for the Sten, to make them BATF legal. Bizarre thing is this company is like 4 miles from where I live. Dude, the STEN was arguably the cheapest, most mass produced weapon ever made. $2400? - I think not! Edited January 25, 2005 by Mechamaniac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain america Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 In the vein of "gun talk" but slightly off-topic...Theoretically, where would one go to find financing to develop new firearms designs? If it's too sensitive a topic to discuss here, please feel free to send me a PM anyone. very little. Guns designs are very old and any machinist can design and make one if he wanted to and go to federal jail if living in the US..... and has the tools to do it. Considering Guns are hundreds of years old and the design hasn't have a major design change yet (Still shooting a metal spit wad down a tube). Now if some super evil villian made a airsoft gun so powerful that it can shoot a 223(556) at the same speed as gun powder would now that would be insane. basicly that would be a true caseless gun. I'm not talking about modifying existing weapons in a little back-room, I mean new, LEGITIMATE firearms concepts designed/manufactured from scratch. Safer, more accurate , more compact, etc... not talking about modding weps you can easily design your own and make it if you have the tools and materials for it. You skill depends on how good it is in quality. for example Philipino guns made by gunsmiths work ok but don't last long cuz they not very durable. but its cheap. ...It's like trying to argue with a stoned teenager ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentrandude Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 In the vein of "gun talk" but slightly off-topic...Theoretically, where would one go to find financing to develop new firearms designs? If it's too sensitive a topic to discuss here, please feel free to send me a PM anyone. very little. Guns designs are very old and any machinist can design and make one if he wanted to and go to federal jail if living in the US..... and has the tools to do it. Considering Guns are hundreds of years old and the design hasn't have a major design change yet (Still shooting a metal spit wad down a tube). Now if some super evil villian made a airsoft gun so powerful that it can shoot a 223(556) at the same speed as gun powder would now that would be insane. basicly that would be a true caseless gun. I'm not talking about modifying existing weapons in a little back-room, I mean new, LEGITIMATE firearms concepts designed/manufactured from scratch. Safer, more accurate , more compact, etc... not talking about modding weps you can easily design your own and make it if you have the tools and materials for it. You skill depends on how good it is in quality. for example Philipino guns made by gunsmiths work ok but don't last long cuz they not very durable. but its cheap. ...It's like trying to argue with a stoned teenager ... man your an idiot or you don't understand the simplicity of making a firearm. Now think of this guns have been designed and built for like 400 some odd years. good 300 of them made and design by people who can be considered retarded by todays educational standards. If you have a metal lathe or can access one. you can build design and build most components for a gun. just buy springs for the bolt and or mags since they are cheap. i wont get into legality issues since this is the internet and i don't know laws about manufacturing weapons in other countrys you may live in. Safety devices on firearms are insanely simple to design for example. an sks has a simple but effective peice of metal that blocks the movement of the trigger. More accurate. simply longer barrel and if you want longer cases to compensate for the friction. more compact. thats easily the most used mod people do and scratch build. good knowledge in wood working can help you there. the basic gun itself is very compact but for the grips can make it bulky. hard plastic ones look up molding in resin and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain america Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Apparently the only idiot here is YOU, since you completely fail to grasp the power of innovation,design, and the entrepreneurial spirit. You seem to take for granted what was invented by others over centuries, but if, by your own logic, people could design their own firing systems and weapons, why don't they? Why don't they start their own arms firm and market their creations? And by that standard, if people thought that guns are just there to "deliver a bullet" plain and simple with no need for innovation, there would never have been any semi-autos, no polymer Glocks, no HK P7 or VP-70, no Kahrs or even Mateba revolvers & DAO triggers. We'd all still be toting single action wheelguns. Basically, what you're saying is that you have NO clue where to get any venture-capital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 In the vein of "gun talk" but slightly off-topic...Theoretically, where would one go to find financing to develop new firearms designs? If it's too sensitive a topic to discuss here, please feel free to send me a PM anyone. Cap, If you're looking for investment capital that's really out of my field. However, for anything regarding firearms in our fair land I suggest you swing by the Canadian Gun Nutz forums. There are a few small manufacturers around, believe it or not, so hopefully somebody there can point you in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain america Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Thanks Bsu, that's right up my alley. Looks like they have a lot of gripes against customs too; just my kind of people! LoL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 No problem, Cap. Just go easy on the "single action wheelgun" cracks. My user name is 1851 Navy over there, and that's not the way to go about getting any support from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain america Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 LoL! Actually, I love wheelguns. I'm currently prototyping one as we speak... Hopefully you'll get to see it one day: If you think Matebas are radical you ain't seen nothin' yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Border Red Devil Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Dude, the STEN was arguably the cheapest, most mass produced weapon ever made.$2400? - I think not! Reread my post. The BREN gun, semiautomatic reciever, is $2400...not the Sten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaijin Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 LoL!Actually, I love wheelguns. I'm currently prototyping one as we speak... Hopefully you'll get to see it one day: If you think Matebas are radical you ain't seen nothin' yet Do tell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF19 Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 I'd dispute that. How about the G-11? Sure, it didn't enter production, but it was a pretty original design. Or, while it could be called an SMG, the P-90? i never liked the 30 year old design of the g11. the case with any gun is realy nothing its just there to hold the primer and powder while prevent the gas from escaping into the block throught the firing pin and other nooks and crannys due to old design flaws and such. the g11 in my mind is still a cased ammo using gun since instead of brass or steel its the powder itself made into the case. the chamber still does all the work keeping it in on both designs. i dont realy call it original, the chamber is just a drum and spins around like a clock or those who reload a powder measure. The rotating drum deisgn had never been USED until the G11. The powder design was also revolutionary, because you know have an ALL climate weapon. The casing's will never shrink that hair it takes to lock the. round in place. The P90 is also completely un-uniform in design. It's designed around ergonomics, and It's arguably the most comfortable weapon I've ever held. It's fairly accurate for it's size, and a 50 round magazine on something that isn't even as long as an MP5A4. Even the way you strip it down...the thing comes apart into three pieces! Even the round is revoltuinary, except for the fact you really cant use it in CQC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain america Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 LoL!Actually, I love wheelguns. I'm currently prototyping one as we speak... Hopefully you'll get to see it one day: If you think Matebas are radical you ain't seen nothin' yet Do tell... All in due time. First, everything'll have to be effectively prototyped and evaluated, then patented before I can divulge any secrets... Hence the search for venture capital. What I CAN tell you for the time being is that our 9mm auto is in the cad design phase, and while being under 5.7" long and less than 1" thick across the grip, has a trigger with a 1911-style pull, but is fully DAO and has second-strike capability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentrandude Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 I'd dispute that. How about the G-11? Sure, it didn't enter production, but it was a pretty original design. Or, while it could be called an SMG, the P-90? i never liked the 30 year old design of the g11. the case with any gun is realy nothing its just there to hold the primer and powder while prevent the gas from escaping into the block throught the firing pin and other nooks and crannys due to old design flaws and such. the g11 in my mind is still a cased ammo using gun since instead of brass or steel its the powder itself made into the case. the chamber still does all the work keeping it in on both designs. i dont realy call it original, the chamber is just a drum and spins around like a clock or those who reload a powder measure. The rotating drum deisgn had never been USED until the G11. The powder design was also revolutionary, because you know have an ALL climate weapon. The casing's will never shrink that hair it takes to lock the. round in place. The P90 is also completely un-uniform in design. It's designed around ergonomics, and It's arguably the most comfortable weapon I've ever held. It's fairly accurate for it's size, and a 50 round magazine on something that isn't even as long as an MP5A4. Even the way you strip it down...the thing comes apart into three pieces! Even the round is revoltuinary, except for the fact you really cant use it in CQC. Revolvers and gattling guns. just rotates a differnt way. And with cases you never need to worry about case shrinkage but case expansion you need to keep an eye out. when reloading and getting stuck in the chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opus Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 The Lewis gun had a rotating drum mag alll the way back in 1911. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 What I CAN tell you for the time being is that our 9mm auto is in the cad design phase, and while being under 5.7" long and less than 1" thick across the grip, has a trigger with a 1911-style pull, but is fully DAO and has second-strike capability. So I take it you're not planning on selling any in Canada then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VF19 Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 I'd dispute that. How about the G-11? Sure, it didn't enter production, but it was a pretty original design. Or, while it could be called an SMG, the P-90? i never liked the 30 year old design of the g11. the case with any gun is realy nothing its just there to hold the primer and powder while prevent the gas from escaping into the block throught the firing pin and other nooks and crannys due to old design flaws and such. the g11 in my mind is still a cased ammo using gun since instead of brass or steel its the powder itself made into the case. the chamber still does all the work keeping it in on both designs. i dont realy call it original, the chamber is just a drum and spins around like a clock or those who reload a powder measure. The rotating drum deisgn had never been USED until the G11. The powder design was also revolutionary, because you know have an ALL climate weapon. The casing's will never shrink that hair it takes to lock the. round in place. The P90 is also completely un-uniform in design. It's designed around ergonomics, and It's arguably the most comfortable weapon I've ever held. It's fairly accurate for it's size, and a 50 round magazine on something that isn't even as long as an MP5A4. Even the way you strip it down...the thing comes apart into three pieces! Even the round is revoltuinary, except for the fact you really cant use it in CQC. Revolvers and gattling guns. just rotates a differnt way. And with cases you never need to worry about case shrinkage but case expansion you need to keep an eye out. when reloading and getting stuck in the chamber. The rotating mech. Of the 90 and G11 is in NO way related to the revolver or gatling gun. The gatling gun is one firing pin, and one feed, with multiple barrels to keep overheating down. Same general principle, jus teh other way around. And you do nee dto worry about shrinkage, because when you fire it, it can jiggle around the chamber really fast, and that just has a tendency to, well, you know, **** things up. Sorry bout the lewis gun, I dont keep tabs on Anything made before '40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Chiming in on gun law in reguard to "manufacture", i.e. making a functioning firearm from "scratch" (meaning a weapon that has not been registered with the BATF): ... to the best of my knowledge, in all 50 states (and according to BATF law) it is 100% legal for any man or woman who is a citizen of the USA to build their own weapon for personal use with no real paperwork needed. The only downsides are that the weapon MUST conform to ALL on the books firearm laws, be ingraved with the builder's name and cannot under any circomstances be transferred to anyone else. Even if you die the weapon must either be destroyed or transfered into the custody of the BATF for disposal. They are not legal to sell, give, will or even loan to another shooter. Another serious downside to this is the safety issue... I'm not talking mechanical safeties, just plain safe design and construction. I've seen some guys make zip guns out of lengths of pipe and bedsprings before that could blow your fingers off. Building a weapon is a serious thing that requires serious skill... not just any joe sixpack with a blowtorch can make a firearm and expect it to work. And to turn out a really nice firearm you would need extensive plans/blueprints that you follow to the letter to ensure a safe funcitoning weapon... and most people with those skills are already holding a Class II permit and making weapons. That is the next level of "firearm manufacturing" are the Class licences to make and repair firearms. Contact the BATF for all forms needed to legally license yourself to make "saleable" firearms that can be sold to other people legally. ... as for the whole "venture capital" thing, nothing impresses people like protoypes, working or not. CNC or Rapidpro some mock up guns and shop them around to potential investors or other companies looking to "buy into a new market". I can name several "mom and pop" firearms makers that have cropped up in the last 5 years or so making either their own design firearms or "knock-off" designs and they appear to be making a killing. Heck, perhaps even a bank would float a loan to you if you gather enough data to support your product, the field you are entering and find a nice open minded bank willing to listen to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentrandude Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 The rotating mech. Of the 90 and G11 is in NO way related to the revolver or gatling gun. The gatling gun is one firing pin, and one feed, with multiple barrels to keep overheating down. Same general principle, jus teh other way around. And you do nee dto worry about shrinkage, because when you fire it, it can jiggle around the chamber really fast, and that just has a tendency to, well, you know, **** things up. Sorry bout the lewis gun, I dont keep tabs on Anything made before '40. its very much related. they are drums with chambers in it for the ammo. the amount of chambers in a drum dont matter and same with how it rotates. Also at the time when gatling guns was invented im sure the inventer hadn't tought about the benefits of multiple barrles keeping it cool. just spray as much as you can with the tech level it was in. not sure what your trying to pull about case shrinkage but if jiggling around I would consider replacing the bolt completely or if its jiggling around before your firing i suggest using the right caliber for the gun . Cases shrink so little that its not realy important. expansion like i said before, you can keep an eye for it but its not important but its anoying to ram a rod down a barrel to push out the stuck shell. Now Has anyone know about this gun ring? i seen it on ripleys belive or not show this little this is extremely small but I can't find any info on it on the web. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opus Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Chiming in on gun law in reguard to "manufacture", i.e. making a functioning firearm from "scratch" (meaning a weapon that has not been registered with the BATF):... to the best of my knowledge, in all 50 states (and according to BATF law) it is 100% legal for any man or woman who is a citizen of the USA to build their own weapon for personal use with no real paperwork needed. The only downsides are that the weapon MUST conform to ALL on the books firearm laws, be ingraved with the builder's name and cannot under any circomstances be transferred to anyone else. Even if you die the weapon must either be destroyed or transfered into the custody of the BATF for disposal. They are not legal to sell, give, will or even loan to another shooter. Another serious downside to this is the safety issue... I'm not talking mechanical safeties, just plain safe design and construction. I've seen some guys make zip guns out of lengths of pipe and bedsprings before that could blow your fingers off. Building a weapon is a serious thing that requires serious skill... not just any joe sixpack with a blowtorch can make a firearm and expect it to work. And to turn out a really nice firearm you would need extensive plans/blueprints that you follow to the letter to ensure a safe funcitoning weapon... and most people with those skills are already holding a Class II permit and making weapons. That is the next level of "firearm manufacturing" are the Class licences to make and repair firearms. Contact the BATF for all forms needed to legally license yourself to make "saleable" firearms that can be sold to other people legally. ... as for the whole "venture capital" thing, nothing impresses people like protoypes, working or not. CNC or Rapidpro some mock up guns and shop them around to potential investors or other companies looking to "buy into a new market". I can name several "mom and pop" firearms makers that have cropped up in the last 5 years or so making either their own design firearms or "knock-off" designs and they appear to be making a killing. Heck, perhaps even a bank would float a loan to you if you gather enough data to support your product, the field you are entering and find a nice open minded bank willing to listen to you. All that typing for nothing. Cap. A is a Canuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orguss01 Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Chain mail anyone??????Post on Paintball board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 All that typing for nothing. Cap. A is a Canuck. Just for anyone who wants to know. American gun laws are not as restrictive as people think (or like to complain about). The real downside to Cap's situation is if he wants to export his product into the US. Two words for that: good luck. Unless he is a large corporation with money to waste and time on his hands to deal with the BATF and the Federal government getting his wares out of Canada and into the single largest firearm consumer base in the world will take some doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain america Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Hi Bsu. Sadly, yeah, with a 3" barrel, my autoloader won't be available in Canada anytime soon, but maybe a longer barreled, polymer variant will, who knows. As per what JS Arclight stated above, you're correct: I'm very much aiming at the US market, and if anything I'd like to be able to manufacture in the US as well; loads simpler than having to haul stuff across the boarder ( though Para ord. seems to manage somehow.) Prototypes: you bet! The concepts all go to the 3-d stage, and I have almost fully-functional resin prototypes of the 9mm, and am working on the .357 wheelgun as we speak. Basically, I toiled-away to make sure that the safety, slide release, mag release & trigger system all work just as they would on a real firearm; I just had to use softer springs to accomodate the weaker plastic. From there, my engineer takes the plastic prototypes and retro-engineers them to get all the proper tolerances, and thus provides proper CAD software that can be input into a CNC for machining into metal. If anything, we really did our homework to ensure that the design is valid and that we have proof-of-concept for the new trigger & other systems. In a nutshell, before anything else, we'd be looking for a "strategic partner" of sorts who would be able to help us take our concepts to the firing prototype stage, and we're fully prepared to dazzle them with our fancy little prototypes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opus Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 I would thin,k the way to get your gun made would be to patent your design and shop it around to the various manufacturers until you find someone willing to pony up the cash to make it a reality. But what the hell do I know? I'm no businessman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentrandude Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 All that typing for nothing. Cap. A is a Canuck. Just for anyone who wants to know. American gun laws are not as restrictive as people think (or like to complain about). The real downside to Cap's situation is if he wants to export his product into the US. Two words for that: good luck. Unless he is a large corporation with money to waste and time on his hands to deal with the BATF and the Federal government getting his wares out of Canada and into the single largest firearm consumer base in the world will take some doing. I know its vice versa little bit too for private sells. Being close the canadian border our gun shows has tons undercover agents that look for people selling to canadians or after a crime happened they come track the guns ownership down. From what i gather the canadians are complaining that the guns used in criminal activity are comming from the us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 (edited) The Canadian boarder has always been "our friend to the north" but at the same time a lot of things that cross that boarder really are not supposed to... but they do anyway. The whole "Grey Market" that has drawn up from Canada is impressive... all those vehicles, prescription drugs, clothes, cigarettes, you name it. Lots of stuff that is (according to uncle sam) not supposed to cross that boarder does anyway. Of course when it comes to illegal firearms they are usually already breaking the law, what is one more added to the pile? Opus is correct that when it comes to weapon design the best bet is to shop your design around to the manufacturers. If you find an interested party try to retain the rights and have them just build and distribute the weapon... using someone else's network is much better than trying to build your own. The two main downsides to that sort of agreement are that 1) usually your profit from said transaction is quite small... most companies prefer to "buy" rights rather than license products. and 2) your name will most likely be replaced with one of their choosing... your "Capt. America Gun" will become the Kimber Pro Defense or some nonsense like that. When it comes to getting things done a good spot of networking will usually pay for itself. Go to shot show with your proto and work the room, sometimes you could get a right name to follow or a lead that pans out. You never know who will overhear your pitch, see you flash that prototype or catch a whisper of your conversation to someone else. Guns are big business and people are always looking for the next "fad" (even if this is not a fad) to get behind. First in the door makes the most money after all. Edited January 27, 2005 by JsARCLIGHT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain america Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Hi JS. I'd discussed the idea of approaching existing firearms manufacturers with my associates. It's technically the easiest route, save for one big problem: as it stands now, we have technology concepts which have yet to be proven 100% effective, since they have only been mocked-up with polymers and not test-fired metal prototypes, and because of that, it's much more difficult to sell a design or a concept because it's "unproven". Companies either wouldn't take us seriously, or would offer probably little more than minimal compensation if anything. Second, because the designs aren't yet patented (because they have yet to be proven viable), I'm extremely weary of sending out prototypes or diagrams to any large firms. I always have ANYONE who looks at our stuff sign NDAs of course, but after reading about what happened to Dan Coonan, I think my concerns are somewhat justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Maybe THESE guys can help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 Hmm... just how far away from a working prototype are you? Is it a money thing or a "find someone who can build the prototype" thing? Finding a gunsmith capable of building something high tech in his workshed may be a long throw. I myself know a lot of people down here that can cast metals and resins and polymers and the like but none have the ability to proof a new barrel. I can furnish you some leads to some people I know who actually make their own firearms (class II dealers mostly but one guy I know is actually the sole rights holder to the Cobray line (aka the Ingram/SWD/RPB "Mac" family) and I know he makes his own replacement parts all the time on a CNC machine. This may be a case of the old "catch 22"... you need a working prototype to prove it works so people will build it but you need someone who can build it first to make the working prototype. The actual financial cost may be a distant second to the construction and proofing of a new weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opus Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 I met a guy here in town that builds ARs and the such from stock for the State Police here. A true honest to god gunsmith. I can give his phone # if you want it. He's a truly awesome dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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