Need help with Battlecry

[sketchley]

Slight hijack to an earlier comment in this thread:

The PS2 games will be a mixed blessing. While graphically the certainly kick ass, I don't relish the thought of having someone bark orders at me in Japanese and I won't know that they are saying.

Steve

I can't comment on the PS2 game, but with VF-X, and VF-X2, the only challenge I had was the 3rd level of VF-X - figuring out what you have to do, while not getting killed by the two bosses was frustrating as hell. But let's not dabble on VF-X. In VF-X2, once you've figured things out, it's pretty straightforward. The only game effecting choice is in mission 9: either attack Gilliam or not. Attacking him means getting the quicker ending. Not attacking him, gets the longer one, with the cinematic attack of the Macross 13. Otherwise, scortched Earth tactics work well, but take care not to get into the blast radius of the reaction missiles...

[Thai Boxer 9901]

Am I the only one who has noticed that in battlecry, when you go into battroid mode, that there doesnt appear to be wings on the back? I was playing it today and I found started asking myself, "where are the wings?"

[myk]

I noticed that a looooong time ago. Battlecry is, after all, so 2002...

[Ishimaru]

I've never understood people arguing about how unhonorable cheats are. I mean, it's a video game.. it's designed to be entertaining. If you can still be entertained with cheats, whats the big problem?

Well first it spoils all the fun. Then that fun goes away fast, simple as that, I lose interest in games that way.

All I've got to say;

Nintendo Wii + Macross > *

That would rock!

[Keith]

The no wings in battroid thing is old news, and yes, everyone noticed it. The official stance from the programmers was that they couldn't figure out how to get the wings on the back.....exactly.

[wldr]

The no wings in battroid thing is old news, and yes, everyone noticed it. The official stance from the programmers was that they couldn't figure out how to get the wings on the back.....exactly.

Seems like a pretty pathetic excuse if you ask me. With all the Macross toys out there you would think they would be able to better than that rather lame excuse.

[CoryHolmes]

Seems like a pretty pathetic excuse if you ask me. With all the Macross toys out there you would think they would be able to better than that rather lame excuse.

The exact reasoning was that they couldn't get the model of the VF-1 to walk without the back of hips/air intakes clipping through the wings as the legs swung back and forth. The wings are in the way when you change from fighter mode to battloid mode without using anime magic to shrink the wings.

[JB0]

Not to mention the game was released in October '02. The Yamato 1/60s had only just come out, and those were the only toys that were useful as a reference at the time.

The wings change size between modes on the original VF-1 design. It's a rather ugly issue for transforming models of the mech, be they plastic, resin, metal, or digital.

If I had to guess...

The dev team probably didn't realize the wings changed until they were doing the animations and trying to figure out why the legs kept hitting the wings.

They were on a schedule so they couldn't play with the model and animation until they had everything just right.

The wings "fell off" because it was the least disruptive solution.

Personally, I'd slide them up towards the shoulders... but that breaks the continuity of the lines down the back.

Slide them up and swing them out a bit to maintain the lines? Sure the VF-1 would have coattails, but ...

[Keith]

All I'm saying is if they can make them dissapear, they could just as easily make smaller ones appear in their place. Lazy!

Not to mention it was never an issue in VFX-1 or 2, nor the PS2 Macross game that came out roughly around the same time.

[myk]

I'm not sure, but I believe that the VFX's didn't have the problem with the legs clipping through the wings because the battroids didn't run in those games, they merely skated along on their jets in a fixed pose...

[JB0]

All I'm saying is if they can make them dissapear, they could just as easily make smaller ones appear in their place. Lazy!

It might not've been possible without major changes to the engine.

Could've hit time constraints that prevented it.

It could've just looked ugly when they tried it.

I think just slapping them down as shamelessly lazy is a bit harsh.

Not to mention it was never an issue in VFX-1 or 2, nor the PS2 Macross game that came out roughly around the same time.

The PS2 Macross came out a full year later, Bandai'd done other polygon-based Macross games before, AND had the benefit of Kawamori's input. So they had someone on-hand to warn them in advance "Yeah, those wings have to change size during the transformation, or the legs will go through them."

Knowing issues like this are coming in advance makes it a lot easier to fix(though I can't verify that the issue IS fixed).

*fires emulator up*

VF-X2 does the transformation, then after it reaches battroid mode the wings suddenly change size to ALMOST not there(I had to change to a hardware graphics plugin and up the resolution to be sure they were still there because they were shredded by jaggies). It's a garishly visible artifact.

Not even sure that solves the walking animation problem Vicious Cycle had, since I don't have a save file on a ground level or a real urge to shoot until I see land.

But UNIT didn't even TRY to hide the size problem. They just swapped a pair of polys out on the battroid model and shipped.

At least in Battlecry there's not a "POP" at the end where the wings vanish while you're staring right at them.

I'd cut them some slack if this wasn't VF-X2. They knew well in advance there was going to be a serious animation issue, and they just ignored it.

...

Okay, I just went back and studied Battlecry's transformation animation. The wings actually shrink as they scissor down, which is why there's no "pop" at the end. They ALMOST had it, they just shrank them too far.

I'm actually really surprised. I thought that would've been a very visible artifact, but the transformation sequence is so fast you don't have a lot of time to notice it.

Implication is that either they ran out of time to keep trying wing sizes, or they couldn't find a wing short enough to let the legs move freely.

[VF5SS]

Actually, the wings do not change size in the Macross PS2 game. In fact, they go all the way down to the tip of the nose much like the animation model.

[JB0]

Actually, the wings do not change size in the Macross PS2 game. In fact, they go all the way down to the tip of the nose much like the animation model.

Ya know, I checked the Macross Design Works book last night, and again just now.

The wings DO NOT descend down to the nose tip on the line art, which is the official design and what the animation is supposed to match. The wings should end where the legs connect to the nosecone.

They go all the way to the tip when they scissor down and don't change size.

So it's a more realistic design, but not a more ACCURATE design.

[VF5SS]

They go all the way to the tip when they scissor down and don't change size.

So it's a more realistic design, but not a more ACCURATE design.

I misspoke. The model in the Macross game has the wing descend to the same area near the nose cone, but the model is made without the burly features of the old lineart.

See here.

One thing they use in the game is to use the GERWALK joint to allow it to bend a little better. Also the model seems to have a Hasegawa Battroid style chest joint.

This resin kit also uses the GERWALK joints for greater mobility although the leg intakes are too blocky and lack joints of their own. I imagine that if all the joints were put into a 3D model then many of these problems may be eliminated.

[JB0]

I misspoke. The model in the Macross game has the wing descend to the same area near the nose cone, but the model is made without the burly features of the old lineart.

See here.

One thing they use in the game is to use the GERWALK joint to allow it to bend a little better. Also the model seems to have a Hasegawa Battroid style chest joint.

This resin kit also uses the GERWALK joints for greater mobility although the leg intakes are too blocky and lack joints of their own. I imagine that if all the joints were put into a 3D model then many of these problems may be eliminated.

Ah.

I REALLY need to pick that game up(and a mod chip or swap disk).