Radd

I reccomend poking around the search engine to find any of the numorous Macross 7 threads. To anyone who's been here more than, oh I'd say as little as a month, this is overdone territory. Many people here love the series, some even prefer it to SDF Macross. Many loathe it with such a fiery passion that they feel obligated to voice thier displeasure at its very existance every time the show is mentioned. This, of course, causes many who like it to feel they must defend it. Most will agree that they'd rather threads instigating such conversation be switly locked. So, yes, the search function will bring you more information than you could hope for, and possibly more than you want.

Ah, we must agree to disagree. I like the YF-21/VF-22 gerwalk mode. I think it looks ominous.

I recall 'program your bot and release it against another' style games dating all the way back to the DOS-era, where your robot was one letter, and the enemy bot was another letter, and they'd beat each other to death with punctuation marks and asterisks. However small the market for that style of game is, there are people that could appreciate it if done well.

I was pretty dismayed by the outcry against the PS3 controller, not because I expected that to be a good controller, but because not a single person who booed it off stage knew what it was like. For a tech-based group, the videogame community is definitely very phobic against change, whether it's contoller design or new technology.

I'm not so certain about that. Afterall, like everything in life it's a matter of degree. Think of it in the perspective of this old artist analogy. If an artist works from real life and exaggerates and stylizes from there, their work will have more consistancy and flow together more smoothly, than the work of an artist who snubs real life and takes their original inspiration from another artist's already stylized work. Beyond my limited knowledge of aerodynamics I wouldn't argue that Kawamori's mecha are more realistic (however, that limited knowledge of aerodynamics does tell me that Kawamori's work is, at least in general, based more in reality than the VF-2SS), however they do share a likeness to real world aircraft that the Macross II mecha lack. This last point, at least, is not a matter of opinion, but observation. It is also not a matter of personal preference. Afterall, we are talking about a sci-fi series here, so whether the designs are more based in fantasy, or more based in reality is not something that one can objectively scale good to bad, and in these statements I'm making no such personal judgement. On a final note, I recall hearing an explanation about the air intakes. I'm sure one of our more tech minded members can fill in the details. My hazy recollection seems to have something about Valkyries needing to carry more onboard fuel when in space because they can't use the intakes there.

Quick note, yes, the VF-17 toy can easily stand in gerwalk mode. As for the topic at hand, I love gerwalk mode in general. I can't think of any Valkyries I've seen that don't look good in that mode. Some are better than others, of course but can't really say I thought any of them looked bad.

Every body should know that. 381322[/snapback] My mistake. I ought to know better than to trust anything I've read in EGM.

I heard Capcom shipped a second wave of Phoenix Wright cartridges not too long ago, because the original wave sold out completely. PW is definitely one of my DS favourites, I highly reccomend anyone even planning to pick up a DS grab that one before it dissapears for good.

Not sure I'm following the logic there. Even if the back of the head is obscured, they would have to mold it so long as it's a seperate piece. I'd guess the nosecone isn't directly attached to the back of the head. I'd even say it's fairly likely it folds down against Starscream's back. This is assuming the transformation is similar to the original toy.

Damn. I was going to cut and paste "Luke's childhood? LOLOMGWTF Luca$....CGI Jar Jar Ewok, etc etc" into a post as an obvious joke but... Damn.

If this does well, and I'm sure it will, I'd wager the next two MPCs will be as someone else suggested, Thundercracker and Skywarp.

Eh, if there are any "realistic" designs in Energon, Armada, and the like, I've not seen them. I do appreciate the realistic look of the Alternators designs, though. I understand what David is trying to say, most of the TF designs these days are pretty toy-ish looking, aside from the Alternators line. Brightly coloured, bulbous vehicles with little basis on realistic vehicle design asthetics. Most of Kawamori's Macross mecha do tend to look like something you could much more easily picture on a real life runway than your average Energon, Armada, or Galaxy Force design. I wouldn't say all of Kawamori's designs are like that, though. His Aquarion and Eureka 7 designs, for example. This new Prime toy, I'd wager that the lacking vehicle mode can be blamed on the size of the toy, combined with the emphasis on the robot mode Takara probably required of Kawamori. I imagine if Kawamori had been contracted to design the much larger 20th Anniversary Prime, we would have gotten a much nicer vehicle mode on that toy, and far and away better than the Hybrid Prime. I don't think Phyrox was suggesting that.

I doubt it. He didn't seem to be too into Kawamori's Eureka 7 or Aquarion designs. And while this Prime has a great robot mode for a Transformer, it's vehicle mode is lacking.

You know, the chatroom episode mentioned towards the beginning of the thread was actually one of my favourite episodes.

Meh, unless they make serious improvements in writing it's difficult for me to get excited. I can handle ugly visuals if the writing is good, even better than I can handle lacking writing if the visuals are good, and that movie didn't exactly have either. Which is too bad, because I've since read the original manga and loved it.

I've got no solid preference on the matter. With the VF-1, I like it both with and without in all modes. Same with the VF-11. With the YF-19 and 21, the FAST packs seem designed not to stick out, they don't have a big impact on the look of the fighters. I dislike the Macross 7 FAST packs, for all the fighters, so in that case I prefere the fighters without the FAST packs.

I suppose the only question to ask then, what consideration are we talking about? Anything can be argued about anything if the criteria for the discussion are left open enough. Is the VF-2SS a "Macross" design? Sure. It's a VF-1 without the real world influences to its design. Where Kawamori looked to the F-14 to design the VF-1, the designers of the VF-2SS only looked so far as the VF-1 itself. It retains the basic look and transformation of one of the world's most recognizable mecha. No one could confuse it for anything but a VF-1 derivative. I'm not arguing against that idea. I've only pointed out where it deviates from the design aesthetic present in its ancestor, the VF-1, and the VF-1's replacement, the VF-4. Do these deviations make the VF-2SS unsuitable to the Macross universe? Of course not. Arguing what designs could and and could not belong in a fictional universe is silly. One could argue that Starscream could potentially be some far flung descendant of a VF-1, arms tucked between the legs and all. The franchise owners decide what could and could not belong, and depending on whose opinion you share, the series creator is the end all, be all of what designs 'could' occur.

The VF-2SS is based very heavily on the VF-1 design, in that regard, if no other Valkyries had been produced, one could argue this reasonably. The VF-2SS is a step towards the more fanciful, stylized, sci-fi realm of design. However, the VF-4 is a step in the opposite direction of the VF-2SS, and the VF-4 came first. The VF-4 points down the road to Plus, and Kawamori's continued real world influence in Valkyrie design. Along with the VF-2JA and the Metal Siren, MII presents a continuity where the basic Valkyrie design does not change very much, with the major differences being cosmetic and in their performance. All three MII Valkyries are streamlined versions of the VF-1 with a more sci-fi-ish look to them. In this way, the VF-4 also presents a step in the opposite direction, with the basic design seeing different influences on its design, leading to a craft that could never be confused as another take on the VF-1.

I'm not getting my hopes up. I treat this like I treat any uncomfirmed news, cautious optimism. If it's true, excellent. If not, well, we're likely to see an Alternator's style Starscream once they get to the jets.

Quite correct! I mean't the VF-2SS, not the VF-22 with its YF-23 origins. No one said the VF-2SS took any stylistic cues from Yukikaze, only that there are similarities in the thoughts in design behind them. And there's nothing 'unfair' about comparing it to other mech designs, whether they were designed before or after. A mech design is a mech design. There has been no significant advancement in imagination to make newer designs somehow superior to things imagined before.

I don't think people are mainly talking about the tech, when saying the VF-22 doesn't fit in with the canon Macross universe, it's the aesthetic design to it. It's a lot more sci-fi-ish, and not based on real world aircraft like all of Kawamori's designs are. I believe the comparison with Yukikaze's style of aesthetics is valid, although I would say the VF-2SS looks more like somewhere inbetween Macross and Yukikaze in style.

Joy. Still, I'd prefere a Masterpiece G2 Megatron to whip those Alternator Decepticons into shape.

You just answered your own question.

Heh. Here's where we see an example of an extreme divergence of opinion. I personally think the VF-4 battroid is one of the best battroid designs to come out of Macross. I love the contrast between the super-sleek and graceful looking fighter mode, and the very stout and menacing battroid. I realize I'm in the minority here, a lot of people on the forum have voiced dislike of the design, still I see it as an improvement on the ideas behind the popular YF-19 design. I also still say to call it so top-heavy that it would be prone to falling over is an exaggeration, and that the very picture I provided is enough argument for that. As for the head being similar to that of the Metal Siren, I don't see it other than it's head-shaped, both have little detail on the lower "face" area, and both are somewhat elongated.

Seto Kaiba was critisizing the design of the VF-4. I replied. I should add, however, that I think he was severely over-exaggerating the proportions issue in defense of a wild claim.