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Master Dex

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  1. Master Dex
    This is probably one of the most fair rebuttals to Macross 7 I've seen as you have managed to get to the meat of your three major issues (which are actually quite valid) without getting too emotional like many do when complaining the show is too silly or what not. To me Macross 7 introduced a good chunk of the existing Macross lore and without it Frontier would have a lot less to go on very likely. There is a clear progression going on between them all, and having returning characters like Max and Milia help that a lot I think. I pretty much agree with your three points but I feel like digging into them a bit to flesh out why they happened at all perhaps. Firstly, the elephant in the room known as Basara. Yeah, he's kind of an a-hole. Thing is, every time I rewatch this show, I am more and more convinced it only works because he's an a-hole. I think he was deliberately written that way, and if he was a more likeable character most of the plot wouldn't function quite the way it did. Basara can't be denied singing prowess or piloting skill (Gamlin, and even Max gave him some kudos there) but his main job in the narrative is to build up everyone else I think. Gamlin becomes a better pilot trying to keep up with Basara, and even softens his stance on music relative to combat (a lot of this was due to his interest in Mylene of course too). Mylene grows as a singer due to Basara pushing her, often pissing her off in the process. The UN Forces really hate him partly cause he bruises their egos but also he has no respect for them and yet still they relent his method ultimately has some purpose so they create the Jamming Birds (never mind the group was never successful until the very end but they had very little time to skill up). Plus it is clear Basara does care about people... but he goes about it in a rather rude manner, and still focuses on his interests mostly. He was essential to the story... because he's the giant prick they needed, just not the one they deserved, lol. Yeah he probably would have made a better secondary protagonist, but in my opinion Mylene was just as much a lead as he was in the show anyway. The pacing..... actually there is not much to be said here, it is one of Macross 7's biggest sins. A lot of it is the length of the show of course, which was probably a studio choice rather than a writing choice. The show redone in a 2 cour format likely would be a lot easier to digest, or even in some revision movies like Frontier had. We could even put all the amazing mecha designs into fancy new CGI too perhaps. This is likely never gonna happen so I can dream, lol. Song Energy finally... is kind of an issue for sure. I am of two minds here. I for one liked it better when the music was simply as aspect of the greater culture of humanity affecting our alien adversaries and allowing them to slowly empathize with us, which was why the Protoculture stringently forbade it among their warrior races. It meant music wasn't a weapon so much as a gateway drug of sorts to the emotional understanding between species. Macross 7 seemed to want to compound on this initially by Basara singing in order to open the eyes of the enemy and make them understand the fighting was pointless. This was ok to me. Later we got song energy projectors and sound boosters intended to better deliver the direct energy of song to the enemy as almost a weapon and.... somehow Basara was ok with that? Well really he seemed to have some issues but being the ass he is he was ok with forcing his song down the enemies throats with sci-fi tech to force them to listen and at least acknowledged in the movie and later episodes that the Protodeviln were extremely dangerous and his singing together with the song energy amplifiers could do something. However it is clear the original point of the music aspect of cultural contamination was already being lost in the details. Frontier expanded this by basically confirming song energy was basically music reverberating through fold space and reacting to everyone on a weird hyper dimensional level and was more potent with the application of fold quartz which already was highly sought after for it's many super properties. I am lighter on Frontier because I don't mind them explaining the 'science' of what in Macross 7 was only vaguely defined at best (Chiba never explicitly explains what exactly song energy is after all, it's just kinda there). Frontier gives it more grounding which I was ok with, but at the same time facilitates the further separation from the original idea in SDFM that it wasn't just music but culture entirely. Now culture and music might as well be the same thing. Delta just took this to the logical conclusion from there (logical in that we'd already fallen off the wagon so why not just keep tumbling downhill) and essentially turned music into a full on combat system. Walkure never really was trying to empathize with the Windermerians or awaken them to the fact that they weren't so different, they were combating them and their evil song, and healing people with song therapy (itself something Macross 7 showcased and was one of the elements I was annoyed with there as well, who needs doctors when you have rock music after all..). So I don't blame Frontier specifically for what it did; even though they basically did the equivilant of midiclorians with song energy, but unlike The Force, no one really was that fond on song energy being a mysterious power already. I blame 7 for going from a sensible start to trying to overtech it in the wrong way, leaving a turd of an idea Frontier was left with no choice but to polish (and to be fair, they did an ok job of that). Delta on the other hand.... well they didn't really do as well at carrying the idea forward, and that is putting it lightly. So yeah Driver, I'm totally with you. Those three things are big fails of 7, but I'm glad to hear you are still able to enjoy the rather large amount of comparative good in Macross 7 as well, much as I have. There really is a lot to love if you can get through it and actually put aside your knee jerk reactions to the glaring issues, and I truly thing more people owe it to themselves to try. After all, it tells a story better than Delta did, lol.
  2. Master Dex
    Though didn't we see a new type of Regult in Delta ep.1 that had arms on it?
  3. Master Dex

    Uta Macross!

    Master Dex replied to tankball's topic in Games

    So when doing a song sequence. I can guess the glowly middle button is a power up and such but I am not entirely sure what it actually does during the song. It only works once for me and it just seems to add more lights and stuff. I don't know if it affects my score any. Anyone care to enlighten?
  4. Master Dex
    Does Macross Chronicle use Tenjin art for its covers? If not then none. This book is entirely artwork by Hidetaki Tenjin (most of what he does for Macross is used for model kit box art).
  5. Master Dex
    While that is a point, also to remember is the fold fault issue. It has been shown objective and subjective travel times differ wildly (and in my head canon this relates to Misa's original note of time dilation within fold space from SDFM). While the objective travel time for Frontier to get back to start is at best 10 years, maybe for the people on board it would be less. This of course doesn't count super fold booster technology first developed on Frontier which negates fold faults and as said reduces the effective size of the galaxy by a factor of 10. I suspect it is entirely possible though given how fold faults seem to work that Sheryl's trip between Galaxy and Frontier may actually take months but she and her crew aren't actually on the transport that long. On the subject of Macross 29 though, I feel like that would be the perfect place for equally idiotic pacifist Lynn Kaifun... but we know he makes a living on Macross 11 managing bad cover bands, lol. How strange.
  6. Master Dex

    Uta Macross!

    Master Dex replied to tankball's topic in Games

    Maybe it is because I love all the songs in the event but I suddenly unlocked my true potential (the power of song energy? lol). I used to get Cs and Bs at best but here I started rolling S and SS ranks for songs (including a SS for Axia itself). I also applied Focslain's advice, I suspect it made a difference. I also got a third 'diva' (my lineup is Sheryl as my main, Freyja, and Ranka now. I haven't unlocked anyone else, only rank 6) so I think that makes a difference too.
  7. Master Dex

    Uta Macross!

    Master Dex replied to tankball's topic in Games

    You are far ahead of me honestly. I'm not even trying to figure out stats and such... Just putting things together randomly so far. I'll try your suggestion though. I've never played this kind of game before.
  8. Master Dex

    Uta Macross!

    Master Dex replied to tankball's topic in Games

    I got it and have idly been playing, not heavily enough to rank up with any speed. Frankly I'm not that good at it, lol. I also am blindly going through and guessing what most buttons do so I only have a vague idea of how to play the game outside of the actual song segments.
  9. Master Dex
    Can't be sure on fold quartz usage, and really anything is a hypothetical. However the SV series is designed to be best against other VFs and the VF-171 was already an aging plane in 2060, but we also don't know how old the Svard was by then. It is more likely it was on par with the VF-171. The NUNS were using the Aerial Knights as a special ops force so they were more banking on their flying skill than technological capacity. It is notable that it required Epsilon Foundation later to make a Gen 5 equivalent fighter which implied Winderemere doesn't have that capacity on their own. Then again it was also proven that without ketchup song backing them, even in the 262s the Aerial Knights weren't able to hold up against the VF-171s... so... they might not be /that/ good as pilots either.
  10. Master Dex
    Most of that, if not all, looks like the artwork of Master Tenjin Hidetaka who has done a lot of the best artwork for Macross, specifically for model kit box art. There have been three books released (The Sortie series, Third Sortie even having English translation of the notes in it) just displaying his work. My avatar of Captain Max is actually a portrait he drew that appears in Third Sortie. I can't be sure that is all his work, but a lot of what you posted looks very similar to this art style. EDIT: Looking again, a few of those I know for sure are Tenjin works, so I'm more likely to believe it's mostly his stuff.
  11. Master Dex
    I didn't really mean to denigrate Guld's skills there.. it was really just a set up for the ace joke. I'm fully aware Guld is no slouch, he would not have held off the Ghost as long as he did if he weren't.
  12. Master Dex
    A stunt which for Guld using special hardware was considered impressive and indicative of the technology of a much more advanced fighter. For Max and Milia, that's just Tuesday.
  13. Master Dex
    I suspect as well that despite all of our opinions that the show was received better by it's intended Japanese audience (and demographic as well). I've seen that with a lot of shows, and even the reverse where an American audience loves a show but it is received poorly by the native audience. Now I don't know for sure if that is true, but the other things mentioned at least tangentially imply it, but Walkure and DX sales can probably justify it on their own in any case.
  14. Master Dex
    I've heard it all before... But that's so hot.. Feel free to discuss such things anytime Seto.
  15. Master Dex
    That entire post was full of sexy... As an engineer as well I love that stuff. I think he's right though, Macross gives more than Star Trek, which really only gives that much in the TNG technical manual (and spiritual successors) and is generally less... Scientific in that there is more made up words. (I say this but I still love it, and am in fact right at this moment at a Star Trek convention). You ever learn those missing pieces of info let me know... Cause I know what you're taking about in your guesses lol.
  16. Master Dex
    Sounds like I got the gist of it though. Seriously though, I would love a show or OVA dedicated to the tasks of the Federal New UN Forces tackling problems like that.
  17. Master Dex
    Sounds like you are both saying an emigrant fleet can handle a Zentradi main fleet be using 5th generation VFs but it also can't due to the numbers... I likely misunderstood something in that last paragraph. It is clear though you are saying anything bigger than a branch fleet, like Chlore's, is a big problem for an emigrant fleet and to be avoided. The Federal forces are likely the ones deployed to near areas with main fleets to either pacify, destroy, or just keep them from making trouble for New UN fleets using their overpowered VF-24s and whatever else they have now. So.... can we PLEASE get a show or OVA about that awesome crap!?
  18. Master Dex
    I think Seto is entirely on point. On the subject of Delta basically doing the same thing with the love triangle as Frontier, perhaps even worse really: It was said once Kawamori wanted to drop the love triangle element in this show originally but the studio demanded it so he wrote this one in. It is entirely possible he basically phoned it in as such.
  19. Master Dex
    Man, their runes touched and everything.. it was like.. Alien Yaoi, lol. That comparison to Ouran though... it's so spot on.... I can't unseen it.
  20. Master Dex
    I actually suspect this is a lot of what Federal NUNS units do with their massively overpowered VF-24s and their alleged tactical short range folding (with fold boosters, that is something the YF-24 design was sold on as a thing it could do). In my head canon, they do have shadow units that do a lot of sooper sekrit stuff both internally and externally.. but they can't be everywhere. That is why NUNS decentralized in the first place after all, lol.
  21. Master Dex
    Mostly my point so apologies for the over simplification. I knew at least the idea of it changing during production was wrong.
  22. Master Dex
    While you're not wrong that it might have been better that way, it turns out the story that the show was originally planned as a 1 cour and extended after production started was a myth. A movie may have been in mind at some point of the production but official word is that once the show was being made it was already a 2 cour show. Really all that means is that there isn't much defense for the lackluster writing.
  23. Master Dex
    I bet it is used for both. I've seen many female Kaname's. There is one in Full Metal Panic as well for example.
  24. Master Dex
    This part is especially notable. For all the flack the show gets (and a lot of justifiable). This is basically what Macross 7 did. Diamond Force and Emerald Force were both basically special forces teams that used special equipment and/or state of the art fighters (purpose built VF-17Ds for DF, and the newest VF-19F/S for EF) while the main force was still using the by then horribly outdated VF-11C. This was of course around the time they were realizing that the plans to make the VF-19 the mainstay fighter would become too difficult (which resulted in the cheaper, but still all around improvement over VF-11 that was the VF-171, right as decentralization took place). Even the VF-22s were meant for special forces use.. though in the show it was mainly to give the bosses new and unique things (Though this is Max and Milia, they deserve it, even if they certainly don't need it). Gamlin later gets one too.. but we have no idea if that is a new Diamond Force thing or just him. I rambled but the point is clear.. it has been done but it seems Kawamori wants to go a different route now for nothing other than contrived reasons. He has certainly always implied that "The Man" was a problem in each show, even in SDFM and M7 where is was just command that was problematic, not our heroes.
  25. Master Dex
    http://macross.jp/delta/mechanic/ That should help a bit.
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