TG Remix
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Oh, so Shinsei Industry wasn't the only company that was formed through merging. Considering how General Galaxy is involved with a lot of the more "bulkier" looking variable fighters I'm not surprised companies that made the Destroids were apart of it. I'm assuming the VF-9's and VF-17F's were not as great as Galaxy had hoped? So the foot soldiers and battlesuit/battlepod users we see in Frontier and Delta would be a minority in colony and emigrant fleet defense forces for the most part, I'm assuming? If that's the case I would assume there wouldn't be a lot of miclonization machines laying around for a sortie. In 7 we also see the likes of Veffidas (prior to Fire Bomber) and Emilia being giant around, but again, seems to be the minority. All the talk about certain fleets making VF-19's economical make me think even if it was actually accomplished it'd be way too late, even more so then the VF-19F's existence. (Probably if 7th generation Valkyries become a thing, lol.)
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You know I wouldn't know what else to expect after putting a VF-22 engine into a Cutlass. Makes sense though, could only upgrade them for so long. I'm only familiar with the ADR-04-Mk.XV Super Defender and VF-19C/MG21 Excalibur (ironically two non-General Galaxy mechs) from their arsenal of older units. Can you elaborate more on them? Isn't that why the VB-6 had trouble with certain operations, at least in Battroid mode? (Even in it's debut in VF-X2 you could only see it if Aegis [aka you the player] transform into it iirc.) But yeah essentially a battlesuit within a battlesuit only asks for trouble. I wonder if there could be theoretically a force of mostly/all giant sized Zentradi, there's multiple options they have. It probably sounds like it could end in multiple disasters, but hey, Macross 29 opt for a complete pacifist route; so I'm not judging. Yeah, it's why I thought the VF-19F at least would've found itself in a mass numbers in regular fleets as opposed to being only relegated to special forces units. I thought the VF-171 was only introduced in 2046, so it could go through flight and combat testing. Though the 117th Research Fleet was lost in 2048, so I can imagine by that time they were mass produced and started to replace the VF-11's/VF-19's/etc. Probably would've been a good playable unit in VF-X2 if they were made before (production-wise, of course.😋)
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So from all of that I gather the VF-171 was designed to be the most practical option of what a 4th gen Valkyrie would offer. And considering both Shinsei Industries and General Galaxy lost out with both their initial "winners," I can see why the Nightmare Plus would be a lot less extravagant. I know Block II Nightmare Plus' are what we have in Delta and Frontier, and Block IIIF units are in the Frontier movies, but it doesn't seem that there's any noticeable physical differences between the two variations. I'm assuming that also goes to the initial Block I kind (Believe Ozma himself was piloting one himself when the Varja attacked the SDFN-4 in 2048). Though I did notice the RVF-171 and VF-171EX has a new head with two sensors, but I assume the former was deployed much earlier. Would any VF-171 equip that head, thinking about it? Now that I need a reminder of. Don't think it has a official name or pics flying around either. I see, Variable craft have a life expectancy, but they last as long as they could. I'm still not used to that, considering other Real Robot series replaces their current mechs like how people switch bed sheets. I also asked since the existence of the VF-5000G would imply they still see use, albeit as exported craft in places far into the the space boonies. Although my mind comes to some of the modified VF-11's (Thunderbolt Interceptor, VF-11MAXL Custom, and VF-11D Jamming Birds) where they were given a pinpoint barrier system as a part of their upgrades. Theoretically, I'm wondering how viable it could be to get an entire fleet of VF-11's with similar needs of a AVF fighter, or at least what the VF-171 could accomplish. That does remind me of the little amount of screen time the Regults had and their way of flight in both space and the atmosphere. IIRC the tv series had their legs out so they mover vertically in space, while in DYRL the legs seem to be "crotched over" like when they were in standby. Was this just a visual liberty done for the movie or is there an explanation for it? Think I kinda like how the latter makes the Regult even more compact looking. Yeah, no kidding! On another side point, love how the VB-6's Battroid form is so huge we never get the full height counting the rail guns. And I always wondered how giant sized Zentradi could fit inside the Variable Glaug/Neo Glaug. But then I remember how very compact the Regult and regular Glaug are and I stop asking questions. 😆 Well now I can't remember if it happens in the movies or not. 😅 (Think the toliet's shown, but we don't get to see it "in action," lol.) The movies do cut out a lot of the issues people had in the show, if it helps.
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After the Protect Pack the VF-11 got, that seems like such a downgrade, both weapons wise and visually, lol. Though It does seem like it was built around to be compatible with other Packs and armaments' the VF-171 could get. Though speaking of which, I wonder if the Nightmare Plus could be compatible with the Super Pack the VF-17 got, since they at lease share the same basic shape. With the 600 variable fighters, I wonder how "monogamous" a typical fleet would be. There's the need for Variable Attackers, Bombers, and the odd special forces fighters, but there's older units as well. Granted production wise in terms of animation it'd be easier to have only one type of craft to represent one side (At least for the protagonist side, since the Zentradi, Varauta Army, and Varja had more then one type for the main characters to fight), but considering that Kawamori says it's less on replacing, but adding new ships to what's already there (Which is true to real life as well), I wonder how common extended life services are throughout the UN's grasp to keep older ships and variable craft in service (Like the VF-1X, VF-11C, and VF-4G, maybe the VF-5000G for example) to get them operating on the modern battlefield. Speaking of the VF-4, I've been researching it a bit and I think it's interesting even with its contemporaries they tried to make the Lighting III more atmospheric friendly. Especially with the VF-4D and VF-4S for UN Navy use. I'm trying to get more data on it, but apparently the D-type had issues lifting off and landing? I'm also interested in this sketch Kawamori(?) had made of it. It seems like it's wearing its own Super Pack, though I'm not sure how "official" or not it is.
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Right, that class. Wonder where that started to pop up as well; me guessing it was around the late 2040's like the Nightmare Plus' and AIF-4000's. I brought up those in a general sense, because that also goes for the likes of the Glaug and Nousjadeul-Ger. But yeah most would probably go for Variable Fighters anyways. Part of me wonders if the Regults and Glaug's in Delta with the extra space were a result on trying to give Zentradi at least some type of standards. 😝
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IIRC the Spica Shock incident was the only time, official or not, we got a grasp on what a typical colony planet defense line would be (600 variable fighters, 48 destroyers, 16 cruisers, and 9 space carriers.) Emigrant fleets travelling in space seems like they just get bigger as time goes on. Though the cruisers got me interested, since I don't remember any UN ship at the time that could fufill that roll unlike the Oberth-class destroyers and ARMD-class. Researching the VF-171 Nightmare Plus, I noticed the VF-171EX variant also were equipped with it's own Super Pack. Would that be specifically for the EX Type or that can be used for all Nightmare Plus'? And any word on how much additional armaments it carries, unless it's just for a extra boost of propulsion? And a small musing since Macross II introduced battlesuits controlled by micloned pilots; considering in the main continuity we have Variable Battlepods that can be piloted by both human and giants, theoretically could there be, say Regults or Queadluun-types that could be piloted by miclones?
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That is a fair point, I forgot about the ARMD we saw with the Macross 1 fleet. That and considering the Varauta Army and Macross Galaxy some fleets and defense lines use non-standard vessels as well.
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Right, we don't even have any dates on when they began to be produced. Well, the VF-1 Master File states the Guantánamo class began production in 2026, but also states that 90 ships of the class were built between 2026 and 2035. I find the clain hard to believe since not only New Macross colony fleets were beginning to be sent out with many of the stealth carriers (45 specifically in the Macross 7 fleet), but it seemed from Earth's own defense line had at least 12 of them (And probably even more considering how heavily protected Earth was). The Uraga Carriers are said to be more modern replacements, and I have no idea about the Northampton class of ships where they started to pop up. I'm also reminded of the ARMD-class looking compartments from the sides of the Megaroad-class. They don't look like docked ships, but they probably served the same purpose the ARMD's attached to the Macross had. Right, and even then the Three Star Factory Ship is docked with the bridge (Though considering how unorthodox and the rest are docked with the carriers, it may be an exception then the standard.
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With both times Docker's men fell like flies I always saw that as the series prepping up the VF-19 as the new cannon fodder anyways. 😆 Some questions I had regarding ship development. Macross 7 showed not only City 7 docking with Battle 7, but the other ships of the fleet docking with the Guantánamo and Uraga carriers (Such as the Sunnyflower and Hollywood ships, though I forgot the Three Star Factory ship docked with a Northampton stealth frigate.) It makes me wonder if the mass production of the New Macross colonization ships inspired ship-docking with smaller carriers, or the other way around. And was it ever said when the Macross Quarter and Elysion classes began to be built? A part of me wondered if the latter was built earlier, at least in a Late Universal Century (And our 21st century) sense where technology shrinks but gets more powerful.
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Maintenance costs and the Queadluun-Rau points are ones that I didn't consider, huh. Yeah the simpler airframe the second generation VF-19's would fix those issues, but again, too little too late. Even by the time the Macross 7 was using them the VF-171 had it's first flight in 2046, so seems the over-success of the Excalibur was too big to ignore. Though I could assume even with the VF-171 in mind, since it's not the only variable fighter on sale by Frontier (Or hasn't even been adopted galaxy wide either) it's not unlikely some fleets still do have it as their main fighter.
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The mention of the VF-19's price tag got me thinking about the manufacturing capabilities of Factory Satellites. We kinda get the impression that they essentially did all the work for Zentradi, from food to mass producing their ships, battlepods, and battlesuits without the concern of money. Considering UN has 20 of them under their control, if one was to be modified for making more then just Regults and so on like the one captured in SDF, would cost only be a concern if colony fleets like long distance colony ships and frontier planets and fleets don't have access to factory satellites?
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Was just being tongue and cheek, that's all. 😄 Heck, Max remains one of my favorites in each entry he's in. It seems like between the VF-19P and even the VF-19EF (Although more sources lean the E-Type being a first generation), the second generation Excalibur seems to be the most popular when it comes to modifications, export models or not. I believe the F-Type was said to have a more simpler airframe? So I knew I wasn't going insane! The thing that threw me off the most was the wings do look different from the B-Type and C-Type.
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Well that's one way to keep him grounded. 😆 Does illustrate that both the Ghost and the music wasn't the problem, but a mad scientist's involvement that slightly looks but completely sounds suspiciously like Max. Even in Macross, Show Hayami can't escape playing the villain! Could also look at the differences between that and the M3's Variable Glaug to the first and second generation VF-19 models; basic general shape with a noticeable difference in performance. Though on a similar note, I'm wondering about the VF-19P and if it was an export model that was directly based off of Basara's custom, or it just so happened to look like it. That...Is entirely new to me! Definitely explains a lot regarding the series tone all things considered. On the topic of things Plus related, my mind goes to the VF-19ACTIVE Nothung, and how the Nothung II is three reassembled VF-11B's. Now I'm not sure if the Macross Wiki is a trustworthy source, but the Battroid and Gerwalk forms look almost exactly like the VF-19ACTIVE, which if those pictures are accurate I'm wondering how does a Thunderbolt look like an Excalibur in any shape or form.
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Sorry for the double posting, but I just caught this too. Makes a lot of practical sense. I know 7 production wise came out shortly after and during Plus, but not considering how the New Macross colonization ships had better living conditions then the Megaroad class, those long distance colony fleets could take a long while before finding a good planet to live in and, well could drive anyone insane, Though now you mention it I didn't realize how much mind control was in the whole franchise after SDF until now.
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Well, a certain YF-19 test pilot probably wouldn't be too happy to find that out. 😅 Though I'm kinda surprised the introduction of a potential all-unmanned fleet and the lift of the banned Sharon music only took five years to do so. Would've assumed at least for the former they were a decentralized NUNS effect around 2050 then right on 2045. Though if Macross Plus: Game Edition is to be believed, the Neo Glaug got off pretty well with it's updated variant as the VBP-1/VA-110 Neo Glaug bis. what with its own Pinpoint Barrier System and ability to control 3 unmmaned fighters as well. Though, I'm not sure if even though it's not as high performing as the VF-19 and VF-22, the fact only a Meltran could tap to its full potential makes me wonder if they were built in considerable widescale numbers.
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I see that makes a bit more sense. It's funny to think every single contender in Project Super Nova just never really had their intended purpose fully realized. Even with VF-19's and AIF-7S becoming main fighters in certain fleets it's through noticeable limitations. Though on the subject of Sharon, I read after she took over Macross City, the whole truth of the matter of the incident was only known by the UN government and her music was banned for a bit (at least until by the time of 7.) But by Frontier and Delta it seems like the Sharon Apple Incident, or at least most of the truth, is more common knowledge then before. I'm just wondering when was the time frame people know about her going insane or even her mind controlling people through music.
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Rewatching some VF-X2 walkthroughs again, I'm curious about the use of X-9 Ghosts in not only Macross City's Defense Line (Mission 11B My Fair Lady) and those deployed from the Macross 13 (Mission 12: Remember Love.) In-universe their mass produced counterparts QF-4000 (AIF-7S) were in production circa 2045, 5-6 years before VF-X2's events, but I'm wondering since it was a game released before their appearance in Frontier, I'm wondering why would the UN make more of them after the Ghost Project was abandoned after Sharon's stint.
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So for a while I've been planning out my Macross story idea for a bit, and this is actually the fifth draft overall. I wanted to focus on the worldbuilding aspects of the Macross world, particularly the ins and outs of a autonomous government populated by Zentradi. And feedback and comments are well appreciated!
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From what I gathered, if some fleets come across a planet that's not Class-A habitable planet the would at least try to modify the environment to their liking, like the Macross 4 did with Sephira from 30; like some kind of terraforming. Though it's not guarantee to go well, since Eden-3's colony had to be abandoned by the fleet that discovered it, but I got the impression, like you pretty much explained, they work with what they got. Though it does make me wonder, if a emigrant fleet does come across a planet regardless of how habitable it is, would they plant all of their resources into it, or would they plant some and move on their way to other planets? IIRC the Megaroad-04 discovered Eden before voyaging to Windemere in 2060.
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Oh, so they were less "official" fleets and more ragtag by comparison. Kinda misunderstood that and thought up of the Zentradi Macross 5 fleet instead, lol. I thought they were an explanation or an allusion the the unseen colonial ships with only Zentradi in them that Kawamori mentioned in the Otana Anime review. Though when I read "anti-Earth" I thought they were just against Earth's policies and rules (like no macronized Zentran) and not terrorists/rogue. Okay, so that also contextualizes the more decentralized NUN in Frontier and Delta in a way. Basically cutting ties in such an extreme only hurts them in the long run, especially at a time when you're given much more autonomy then before. And since the Windemere's being mentioned I'm so glad I'm watching Delta again so I can follow this with more context.
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Continuing the topic of colonies or fleets that immediately cut ties with Earth, would it be possible for them to get new UN technologies, like the Macross 7 with their VF-19F's and VF-22S's, and the Frontier and Galaxy with the base plans for the YF-24 to make the Messiah and Lucifer respectively, or they have to settle with that they got since launching and go from there?
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No argument there; makes complete practical sense after yet another Zentradi attack on your biggest and most monumental city just happened. I'm just being a (recently-realized) Zentradi fanboy about it. Though on the more unbiased side, I believe Zentradi racism is one of those things that are mentioned here and there (Concerns with Nousjadeul-Ger's being used for target practice on Eden and a uncouth comment President Glass Howard made in Frontier iirc) but aren't one of the huge focuses either. That, and with the Variable Glaug the UN or any other customer not above to use and widely adopt stolen designs from those mentioned as well. Though in that case it was made from a stolen VF-4, so it's pretty much a cycle...Like Gundam.
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Well that makes Earth a bit less interesting. 😝It would make sense though for them to leave around that time. Though I'd assume the UN would be a bit more in contact with them. Though considering cases like fold faults maybe it's difficult it they weren't done on purpose. Wonder if they would still call themselves apart of the NUNS. Though from the background of the Queadluun-Alma and Feios Valkyrie, Zentradi rogues are a lot more linked then I thought they'd be. Well, enough for a rogue fleet to kidnap a idol group and Black Rainbow to acquire the latter fighter. Part of me wonder if they make up part of those Zentran-only fleets and governments or they just have very good connections.
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Huh, I just thought it was just a rebranding thing. Many symbols and insignia's change over time, but UN property to be non-uniform is also likely. The idea of Rogue Zentradi basically forming their own culture/government outside NUNS rule isn't entirely implausible, considering Kamjin's entire rebellion in the last stretch of SDF. Though sort of a related note, I did come across Sketchley's translation for Macross Chronicle's Emigrant Ships, and I came across interesting tidbit: I would've imagine mostly/only Zentradi emigrant fleets would've popped up here and there earlier then 2031 (Also probably a good minimal outlier when the Macross 5 launched), though it's kinda intriguing/concerning almost all of them lost contact afterwards, assuming they're still under UN government rule.
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I wonder if even the governments closer to earth such as Eden would also wish autonomy as well. IIRC a Macross Ride character lost his parents to one of those kinds of civil wars. Though if I can come back to the short distance emigrant fleets, would they stay around the 100 ly radius on Earth, or would they find themselves jumping between planet to planet as long as they're 100 ly away for a guarantee shorter trip?
