TG Remix
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It does make the franchise a bit more unique in that regard I think. Wonder what was happening around 2008 that made the YF-24 -> VF-25 and VF-27 parallels to happen. It is a common thing a noticed too! I think aside from those, the other even-numbered fleets like the mentioned Macross 4 are in side stuff like video games. It was (half-jokingly) another reason for me wondering about Kawamori's opinion on Macross II, lol. To segway into something kinda-related, I was trying to dig up interesting information for Macross, and there was the notions that the UN after SW1 was a "military dictatorship with elected civilian representation" before the 2040's/2050's; hence a Revolution War happened in 2037. I know Earth supremacy and colony disputes were a thing, and a issue we saw was Earth had the final say of what goes regardless on how much it screwed certain governments over, but I wouldn't know if "dictatorship" would be as strong as a word to describe it.
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I wonder if the emphasis on stealth was Kawamori's more subtle ways of distancing himself from Macross II. It does make logical sense, since SDF did prove even though they can deal with Zentradi, trying to combat a whole fleet would result in inevitable casualties; so to them and most other colonies and fleets, it'd be better to not take the risk overall. Though, I can imagine after Frontier, Earth and some other colonies would be a bit more cocky about winning against threats like the Protodevlin and Varja, and invest in being more on the offensive end like the Macross II UN has. I see, that makes a bit more sense. Still wouldn't be a majority, but still could find themselves in some kind of use. (There's also the case of smaller versions of the Meltradi ships in VF-X2, but I'm leaning more on them being downscaled for gameplay purposes then in-universe) Speaking of size, I don't think we ever got official numbers of the Variable Glaug's size, or those of battroid forms of the likes of the Cutlass or Feios Valkyrie. Right, iirc the Megaroad-06 and Megaroad-09 were "under investigation" in Frontier's animated map.
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I'd have to assume they're not the only ones that have that ideology in the UN. Both Birdman and Space War I did show with enough gusto they could fight against a full blown Zentradi fleet. That and I'd imagine there would be more ships build that were based on the Zentradi battleships combat capabilities then just the Battle class. Unless I'm just spewing nonsense and just being hopeful, lol. Though on that note, I did recently find out I from a Kawamori interview that not only some Zentradi ships were converted into colony ships, but only 100 of them (?) were around by Frontier. I know the UN prefers more smaller stealthier ships, but I'd honestly assume there'd be more then that around. Though for the colony ships, I'd expect those LST's to be converted, since they were the least heavily armed of the bigger ones, and have been used for transportation anyways. Just read this. Probably just nonsense I'm speaking then. 🤪 So the official number of planets around are 160? Or that's just a estimation?
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I thought the command ship was also a local Varauta design that were modified by the Protodevlin. And not like the UN Spacy had a complete disdain of building massive commandships, since not only a few Zentradi ships were used/made by UN have been spotted, but also the complete redesign the Neo Nupetiet-Vergnitzs bis from 7 had with its hull. Right, I remember they also used different ships, like the not-Musai class Deneb cruiser. I guess it's not uncommon for colonies and fleets to utilize other ship designs that aren't the standard kind, they just wouldn't be popular as the likes of the Northamptons and Guantánamo carriers. Though, any more information on the Epsilon Foundation? (Unless it's a Delta thing, in which case less spoilers as possible, lol) I think it's less like they have control over the remaining Varauta Army (all survivors would have returned to normal by then), but they have the Satellite Factory that was able to create as much of the Elgerzorene's, Panzerzorene's, and so on to create. Basically Fasces iirc wanted variable craft with the spirit absorption beams. I am aware that the UN has more factory satellites under their control (around 20 iirc), and it makes me wonder where they're spread throughout their grasp on the galaxy. I'm aware the Regult one from SDF was placed between a Lagrange point between the Earth and the Moon, and the Queadluun-Rau factory that was going restoration near Eden. Would they be moved to the more "important" key places of the UN, or any regular colony fleet/government that comes across one can keep one if they stumbled onto one?
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Makes sense to me. Though I feel the VF-5000 would be the exception as it also took the role of the main fighter until the VF-11. The more I hear about Varauta pre-Protodevlin the more I wonder how different or standard their procedures are from other colony planets and governments we know of. I know production wise they stand out so they can look visually distinct from the protagonists, but it's interesting to think about the universe of Macross. And I have mentioned Variable Bombers, and it's making me wonder if we have any visuals of the VB-171, or at least an idea of how different they look from the regular Nightmare Plus.
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So, looking through some of the production numbers of Variable craft in general, I'm just wondering on how much some have been built overall. The VF-1 had 5,459 built and the VF-4 with 8,245, so pretty decent numbers especially during the pioneer years of long distance fleets. 2nd generation Variable craft it hard for me to think about, since they all were striving to be more cost effective then the previous two. So I'd imagine similar numbers, but I feel it depends on how many colony planets were around at that time. The VF-11 and VF-171 I can assume they're widespread to the point it's easier to count what fleets didn't use them. The VF-14 a bit less, but enough numbers for the Varauta Army alone to posses ~7000 of them to be modified into Fz-109's. VF-17's had 718 built, which makes sense due to them being Special Forces Valkyries. Variable Attackers I'd imagine a bit less would be made, and even lower numbers with Variable Bombers. Though VA's I've heard be used as the main aircraft of certain fleets, so it's not as if they're rare. The hardest to judge would have to be the VF-19 and VF-22's. It's already limiting enough that they were put under massive restrictions to be used on colonies and emigration fleets, but aside from the VF-19EF's (156 overall) and VF-19C's (iirc the most built variant of the Excalibur), I don't think we ever got a grasp on how many overall were built.
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That also got me a bit curious. I know the lineart of the designs doesn't necessarily say how one aircraft fransforms (Because, honestly through that almost none of the suits from 7 should have a Gerwalk mode) but would the bis-type have a Battroid form like the Variable Glaug? Kinda hard to say since most of the mechs from The Ride don't really showcase other modes other then them being Fighters.
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Oh, so it's more like a generalization thing, I get it. Oh, didin't know the Quilqua type was also from the Stellar Republic. Thought that was a very customized suit from Emilia. Yeah, it's the same thing as acting the Neo Glaug is the exact same as the Variable Glaug. Actually, would the Alma even be considered transformable?
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I kinda looked into your site's page of the VF-14, and apparently Macross Chronicle suggests that both the VF-14 Vampire AND the VA-14 Hunter seemed to be popular with Zentradi. It's still funny to me how that and the VA-3 are pretty much the few Variable Attackers we know that we see onscreen (Or as much as we can.) I could see them being the main aircraft of a remote emigrant planet somewhere (Considering despite seeing VF-11's with the Macross 5 iirc, their main aircraft was still the VA-14.) Apparently there was also the existence of the VB-X-2 "Spirit of the Galaxy" that was said to be built to be piloted by a still-macronized Zentradi. Any more data on it, even if it's just a simple picture?
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So essentially it's not the structure of the battle suit itself that's hard to replicate, but the ability for it to be as maneuverable and effective in combat as we see it. Though it does make me wonder how does the Nousjaduel-Ger compare in performance. Well, the lack of its ability to hold a Itano Circus already a strike against it. 😛 That is the absolute best description for Zentradi equipment I've heard. Also true considering the only time we see one being massively redesigned was the Neo Nupetiet-Vergnitzs bis. Though speaking of Zentradi preferred/familiar tech, was it said that the VF-14 favored by Zentradi pilots, or was that only for the VA-14? This is the best and worst thing I've seen all week. 🤣 Can't believe I missed all of that discussion for one of my favorites in SDF. It is also funny despite how being against culture (or at least how humans told the Zentradi about it) he in became apart of it himself...Just not on the pleasant side of things. I do have a new question; I see the term "frontier immigration planets" thrown around, and I'm curious if they have distinctive qualities from other emigrant planets throughout the galaxy?
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And other random train of thought I just thought up of; I'm wondering if there were different head units for the VF-11 then just the similar VF-1A looking one, or variants of it in general like a VF-11S. Considering how seemingly widespread they were until Frontier rolled around, it's funny how we kinda get a VF-1D nod with the Jamming Birds(though I dunno if it's there because it's for two people, or it's specifically for the unit) and not like a VF-1J type or VF-1S type head for the Thunderbolt. Even the Excalibur and Messiah got more despite being high performing "main protag" suits.
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The author must have really liked VF-X2 to have so many references in the game then...Though it makes logical sense considering colony's pleas for autonomy from the game was a leading factor to decentralization. The more I hear about it myself the more I want a English translation out of it. Right, and it helps that Zentradi mech is really durable and cost/performance effective for over hundreds of millennia (and how when they reappear it's without much alterations to their designs.) iirc I heard a Nousjadeul Ger also appears in one of the Delta movies? Or I'm just thinking of it's glorified cameo in Frontier? Though it's funny to me how there's less Queadluun-series in production because somehow a battlesuit's structure is more complicated then a transforming fighter jet. 😛 (Out of universe obviously they want to use their iconic Valkyries that makes the franchise stand out. Though on the other extreme they could've let them be cannon fodder to make the VF-25 look impressive, lol.) Now this is just making me wonder about the story and lore possibilities of humans macronizing themselves for whatever reason. Only other non-Zentradi example was Elma's dad. Still would be in the minority, but Macross does like to experiment with itself here and there.
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Wait, you mean the Critical Path Corporation guy? I thought he was a human. I see. So they're fairly recent by Delta's time, or it didn't take them nearly as long as the Rhea-type battlesuits to exist? Yeah, that's fair. Though I wonder what that made Max at the end of the film, being a regular human but macronized. Then again the madlad is pretty much one of the most impressive individuals in SDF so he probably is just built different. 😆
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Yeah, probably for them to fit in the game as opposed to the giant fortresses you traverse through, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were micloned/UN versions of Meltradi ships, since more or less that seemed to be the case with a lot of acquired Zentradi mechanics anyways. Now that I say it, I notice Delta gave the designation ZBP-104 to the Regult. Would this be it's retroactive number given for UN like the VBP-1 for the Variable Glaug, or a new upgraded model (different from the one with Queadlunn Rau arms and missiles)? Oh, that's a cool detail about the Meltran in the movie. Further contrast between them and the Zentradi's organic aesthetic. Now the cyborgs from Macross Galaxy doesn't feel all that out of left field as I imagine they'd be to others. Seems about right to me. Plus the factories that manufactured them would may or may not be active for a Zentradi to take advantage of as well. The more I think about the Zentradi fleets the more amazed and terrified I am about the scale they have simply on their own.
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Right, I assumed so. Was more or less arguing if the designs themselves were potentially from there. But considering we know so little of them aside from their ties with the Protodevlin we can only assume otherwise.
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Okay so I wasn't going insane seeing the footage of Mission 3! No wonder they looked familiar. Though I don't know if it's because I enver got a good look at them without the screen moving, but it seems they were much smaller then their 3000m counterpart from the movie. Honestly most of the Meltradi ship designs could easily pass off as UN designs, not having the organic look of the other Zentradi ships.
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So I remember talking about Zentradi technology not being standardized throughout every fleet, and that made me think of the Meltran ships In DYRL. In the movie they had to be different (along with the Queadluun-Rau's) so they could be visually different from the Zentran they were fighting against. But since a fleet of them also were in 7, I wonder how they'd fit in being apart of Golg Boddole Zer's fleet. Or, in a more reaching idea, if they were Supervision Army ships since DYRL's Alien StarShip were from the Meltran. And on the topic of Zentradi ships, has there ever been official word or even estimation on how much mecha (battle pods and battle suits) each Zentradi ship can hold? Or even how much crew there is in them?
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Right, forgot about that. I would've double checked on the short on YouTube, but Molebeat's been a copyright streak and it unfortunately got to the Macross channel. Touché. I was kinda surprised myself when I saw the VF-17 being used by the protagonist side. Right, considering Miria and the three goofballs that infiltrated the SDF without anyone really noticing. Guess the ones that would stand out the most would be ones like Exsedol's and Britai's DYRL? designs. Not even gonna consider any Mobile Fortress Zentran to blend in. I understand now. And it's not too out of the ordinary to imagine the Thunderbolt and Vampire working side by side either.
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So like the VF-19C/MG21 from The Ride? Though I think the F in VF-19EF could also mean Frontier as well in hindsight. So even if it cruises better in space, it's still finding itself used in not only emigrant fleets but emigrant planets. I'm assuming this is something like fighting in orbit, or customizing them to the point they can be a slight bit better in the atmosphere? (Or completely revamp it into the VA-14) I'd mention their use in M3 in the atmosphere, but I think we established that Max and Miria are kinda monsters in combat and probably could pilot a variable bomber as if it's a fighter.
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Ironically that made them closer to the Zentradi themselves in terms of tactics, ships sizes, and variable fighters. I respect the hustle, and apparently so did the Protodevlin.😋Wish we also had the pre-converted designs of them, even if there's practically next to no demand of ship designs in the market. Spiritia Dreaming does imply they did use Northamptons as well, and the silhouette of the Standard Battleline Battleship we see did look somewhat similar. (Also held similar amount of variable fighters, Northampton's 37 to Battleline's 30-40.) And also why anything made by General Galaxy/anything that looks remotely Zentradi related is doomed to be used by the antagonists, lol. It's why I was so stuck on wondering if the ships from the Macross 5 was used specifically for that fleet. Speaking of, I know the population was fully comprised of micronized Zentran, but I'm not too sure about the Varauta government people. I'd say their grey toned skin would be a indicator, but that seems to be an affect of being mind controlled. I thought the VF-27 already was mass produced, or at the very least a "production" version for multiples to exist.
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So like how the Varauta government established itself under a name and follows it own rules (VF-14 Vampire's as a main fighter instead of the Thunderbolt, and their different uniforms and suits compared to the 37th Long Distance fleet if that's an indicator) but still follow UN regulations? Actually now that I say it, is it said what their ships from 7 are based off of any other pre-existing designs from the UN like their Variable fighters, or they're brand new designs? I understand now. Still it is funny how the Caliburn based it off a second generation type but almost everything else wants us to believe it came from a first gen. Kinda a shame the VF-19F didn't pop off as the next main fighter, Their track record with the Emerald Force already treated them as cannon fodder anyways.😆 I'm not complaining though, the Nightmare Plus fills that hole in my heart, though it's funny to me how that's not the most produced Excalibur but the VF-19C was. Two of them? That's news to me. Though I assume that exported VF-24 diagrams could be given to any colony, just that almost any variation we see won't look the same as the New UN/"local" VF-24?
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Right, makes me wonder how long has Latence was in operation until their fallout. Though I heard of some autonomous governments popping up before decentralization. iirc there was one established on Planet Vulcan in 2040, so I'm wondering how come others essentially could leave from UN rule prior? Now that you said it, yeah it is weird how we never saw a "vanilla" VF-19E (Unless you count Master File.) Seemed to me it was more closely related to the VF-19F then the YF-19, specifically with the Caliburn's lower legs/engine nozzles. I don't think we've seen a vanilla YF/VF-24 either, if they were even made.
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I figured there probably wouldn't be as many big incidents as say the Zentradi or even something like the Sharon Apple Incident. Though that one was surprisingly more self contained compared to the rest of the world ending catastrophes throughout the franchise. Still, with Timoshee's goal fueled by the suffering of colonies and the push for a more decentralized government, it'd be nice to see or at the very least hear more about the ins and outs of the many planets and their local troubles then just Eden. Speaking of self contained, is there any word if the VF-5000G was a simply upgraded Star Mirage to keep them in service, a variant made to be sold to others, specifically for the Zolans, or all the above?
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I also realized that most of the issues regarding launch dates come from how early the likes of the 5th generation ships were launched. Macross 1-9 seemed like they were launched numerically, but with the likes of Galaxy and 29 they seem to be all over the place. Speaking of Macross 13, I'm aware the Battle class wasn't assigned to a colony fleet, but theoretically would there have been a 43rd Super Long Distance Emigrant Fleet that's called the Macross 13? Yeah, even we got more information between 7 and Frontier. There's the whole thing about Mass Cloning (which probably is the explanation for why there's so many humans after SDFM) and the fallout of that program with hereditary issues (iirc the abandoned city in Plus was where they lived) and it's so funny from Isamu's military record, something as important sounding as the UN Revolution War is just background fluff for our crazy pilot to be apart of.
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Right, have to remember the first emigrant fleets weren't really all said to be that big beforehand. Think it even reflects in the ships used as well; iirc the Plus/7 era ships (The Guantanamo, Northampton, Uraga,etc.) are relatively new and before that used/newly built Zentradi ships were being used for the UN Spacy forces. Regardless, it would make sense that planning those out would take lots of time. So to get the gist, even if numerically a New Macross battle ship is already constructed it could take a pretty decent long time for it to get itself an entire fleet to travel with? Sorry if I'm just repeating the same stuff again. With the discussion of emigrant fleet traveling, I did think about the purpose of the SDFN class. They were built to investigate and secure routes for long distance colonization ships (Whether that's for the Megaroad's or New Macross'.) So I'm assuming if emigrant fleets weren't travelling to the core of the galaxy, the SDFN's (or research fleets anywhere) are for more potential planets outside? Maybe that would've helped the Macross 5 being jumped by Protodevlin, Or am I just overthinking a reason for Kawamori to have another SDF Macross in his story, lol. So I'm perfect for the forum 🤪
