kaiotheforsaken

That is a golden find there Dangard. The fact the man actually touts himself as being a genius is laughable. Though I will say this, his talent in making horrible movies is unsurpassed.

While my money is quite literally on Baltar, I'll be happy if it's someone big. I want one of those jaw dropping revelations/events, like the reveal of the 4 or Kara's death/rebirth in season 3.

Crisis Core is really fantastic, especially if you're a fan of the FF7 story and what not. It's also a good quality action rpg. I also picked up Wipeout Pulse, which is proving to be a ton of fun. Custom soundtracks as well as the ability to design your own ship skins/paint jobs really adds some nice depth to the game. Controls remind me more of the 2097/WO3 style, which I preferred over Pure.

You'd think that when every movie you've ever made bombs horribly and probably doesn't even make half of what it cost to make back in ticket sales, rentals, etc, you'd just cut your losses.

A worthy petition.

I'm actually open for either method Chow (be it paypal, to one person who purchases the desired statue for the winner, or paypal to the winner).

Leoben is by far my favorite of the 7 in terms of his character. He provides insight into Kara's past, her future, and her destiny. He has show prophetic knowledge of things to come, all the while manipulating situations he's in to his own ends. I remember very well his comment about Adama being a Cylon. It was one of many "holy frak" moments for me during my first watch of season 1. I am sort of torn though on what his intent is with this. The most obvious reason, to me at least, is to place doubt and fear between the two figure heads of the fleet, which he succeeds in doing. Could it be he somehow knows the truth of the 5? He knows plenty other things that should seemingly not be possible. However I have a hard time justifying that he is so unique and so special withing the significant 7, that he can see something that the others seem to have been programmed to block out, or forget, or have little to no knowledge of. The thing is, this series has no trouble throwing you for a loop. So hell, maybe his prophecy is truth, maybe he does know more. One thing I can say for certain though, is I hope we see Leoben back a few times this season.

Wes I agree, Athena did a tremendous amount to earn the trust of the people in the fleet. I just hope/want we as a people on the show, to take her as an example for what could happen and try to apply it to other Cylons. I honestly think, the Cylons will have to join with the fleet (in some capacity) for the fleet to survive by the end of this. If it weren't for at least 4/5 being present and Anders being a Viper jock, I think the fleet would have lost a lot more in that nebula than just the 1 ship. I also agree with the Anders idea. There was something, subconscious or instinctively passed between Anders and the raider, that caused it and everything else, to spool up and leave the fleet alone. I DO also feel bad about Boomer. She has had a rough rough time. I just re-watched the first episode of season 2. She doesn't even realize she's hurt Adama until after the guards start hauling her away. She loses her lover, her home, her comrades and her identity and then her life. She is downloaded, but cannot come to terms with what she did and who/what she is. To top it all off, her and Caprica try to unite the Cylons and try to help them find a way to peacefully live with humanity. Of course, this goes horribly awry, so she potentially has the guilt of that on top of everything else. Boomer hasn't gotten a break in a long time. That's exactly what I mean too. Boomer shot the old man, she also was involved in the destruction of the water tanks on Galactica which put the whole fleet at risk. Yet we as the audience, despite that, feel bad for her and for all she has suffered. Both races have plenty to answer for in the scheme of the shows history/events. Are humans and Cylons morally so different? Cylons are capable of human emotion, reproduction (although so far, only with humans, not Cylon/Cylon breeding). They think, feel, evolve, and appear just like us. When do they stop being things and start being people?

Poor Jammer, he got airlocked. The real final Cylon is Lamkin's cat.

So, only one Cylon can be forgiven for the acts committed against our race? No others can make a choice to part ways and become one of us? Your analysis, albeit short, is also too cut and dry. Are the final 5 we know of instantly bad people? Should we shove Tigh and the others out the nearest airlock? Maybe round up Athena and her half breed son and toss them out too? Cally, and her son, one is half Cylon, the other is married to one. Cylon conspirators! Better round them up too. Roslin, well she had half breed blood, maybe it corrupted her? Airlock time. If we went by your logic, and applied it to real life. If humanity, as a species was so wrapped up in revenge and hatred over those who have wronged us. The real human race would have obliterated itself long ago, and the humans of BSG, would not have put trust in any of the Cylons (not even Athena, her story line would be meaningless) and we would have committed genocide against them via the virus. In my mind, if you can brand all Cylons evil and the people of the fleet as good you are missing a giant part of what this whole story is about. Also, humanity created intelligent artificial beings, and enslaved them. How are the Cylons the only ones at fault? edit: typos

I believe that now that 4/5 are activated, they are able to be recognized, at least in some fashion. Obviously Athena noticed nothing, but that raider did, and so did 6. I don't believe Moore's comment on the last supper. In interviews with multiple cast members, it was stated that the idea was just kinda thrown out there, everyone liked it, and so they did it. Moore didn't even come up with the idea. If you believe his comments are doctrine though. The central figure seems to me to be head 6, which is the only version of 6 to ever sport that dress or wear red (the exception being the one at armistice station, who did wear red). Who is to say the Baltar figure, isn't head Baltar? Technically then, real Baltar isn't in the shot. From my browsing of other forums, it seems a lot of people think that more is misleading us for this particular photo. In his podcast for the final episode of season 3. He talks about publishing fake information to keep Kara's return secret, and states he'll probably have to do more of it in the future. I believe that is the truth, and I don't think we can put too much stock in the photo itself. Something created by the sci-fi PR department just cause it looks neat, probably doesn't hold the key. It was also said, that they took several different versions, with each character taking up a different role if you will, within the photo. While an awesome add/image for the BSG universe, I don't put a ton of stock in the "facts" we have on it, or the image itself. However I'll pose a few questions here. Why does everyone assume the final Cylon must be manipulative? Is our lovely Athena that way? Are all Cylons this way? Was Sharon this way before she went and popped Adama? The sixes seem to be, and the Leoben model is definitely, but not all models share the manipulative trait. Also, are the revealed 4 like this at all? Tigh..no, he has flaws, but he's not manipulative. Tyrol.. no, Tyrol strikes me as the Helo of the knuckle draggers, or the lower class as Baltar calls it. He does the right thing, and is a good person, does the revelation that he is a Cylon change this? Anders..no, he can be a little soft at times, at least in the eyes of certain characters, but he is also a good person who has saved hundreds of peoples lives through his resistance work. Tori.. if there is a manipulative one in the group, it's her, but only for her work in trying to steal an election (which President Roslin authorized). Yes, Tigh did agree to help Tori with fixing the election. Though I think most would agree, that humanity (at least as we stand now) would be better off if they had gone through with it. They are all flawed, they all have made mistakes, but none of them are particularly manipulative. I wouldn't put that trait under any of them in a profile. So why must our final Cylon have it? Also, why is it, that only Athena, is considered a person amongst the crew, Adama and it seems now even Roslin? The 6 currently on Galactica is a "thing" despite her help to bring Athena and Hera back to Galactica. I imagine, Saul, Tyrol, Tori and Anders will face this too. Why is Athena a special case? Why is it that most people still feel that all Cylons are evil and dangerous? The species obviously has reason to fear them, but the lines between what makes you human or not are quickly fading. Also note, that this is in the context of the characters and their attitudes, not people here on this forum.

The Cylons, the final 5, and what their role is have been tumbling around in my head since S3 ended. Blowing a gasket over it, is an excellent way to put it.

I'll keep it to my .10 instead of my usual 50 bucks when talking about bsg. If we believe Ron, the final Cylon has been around since S1, which rules out Lamkin. Though, everything that man says should be taken with a grain of salt that being said, for those who don't like my pages of theory, my money is on Baltar.

I'm fairly certain Leoben's line to Ros back in S1 is purely to seed doubt and suspicion within the leaders of the fleet. From what we know, the 7 aren't aware of the identities of the 5, so his statement being truth either violates what we know OR is just incredibly ironic. I've heard some Lee theories, seeing as how they talk about when Zack was born a few times, but never Lee, so there was speculation he was adopted. I don't buy it, seeing as how they dyed Jamie's hair to match Eddie Olmos' and they gave Eddie blue contacts to match Jamie. I just think that Adama blood line, more than anything else in the entire series, is solid history. Hell even Romo worked for Joe Adama, so we have record of at least 3 generations of them. Course, that would make an Adama as a Cylon be the biggest mind frak of all. I saw the vote for Ellen made last night and while her character doesn't really match the prophecy, and I don't think she ever met D'anna. She DOES have some interesting things going for her. The fact that no one could remember treating her for injuries until several days after that attack on the colonies that coupled with the fact Baltar tests her via the Cylon detector yet says he would never share the results when asked by head 6. It certainly plants the seed about Ellen. My biggest issue with Ellen coming back, is that A) it shows the 5 download just like the 7, which, unless the 5 are sporting their own fleet with their own rez ships, this seems highly unlikely and B) it creates one of two issue for Saul, either he is overjoyed that Ellen has returned, hey their both Cylons, no harm right? Or she comes back and lays down a pile of grief on Saul so thick that he loses it. I think Saul has enough on his plate, he already struggles with what he felt he had to do to her. This grief is then compounded by the fact, he IS a Cylon, and he killed her for feeding them information. He also has to deal with his relationships with the living, which are going to undoubtedly become more strained as time goes on. All this puts a huge microscope over Saul, and while he is a main character, there is so much else that is going to be happening, I'm not sure it would play out all that well. IF we believe at least some things RDM say as fact about the show, the final Cylon has been around since season 1. Which discredits Romo. However I take many things he says with a grain of salt, seeing as how, to protect the big spoiler of Kara, both him and Katie insisted she was dead for good. edit: Chow, that idea seems good to me with regards to the winner.

Agreed, Cally is my least favorite character still alive. I was not a fan of Ellen, or Kat (though the ep where Kat died, really redeemed that character).

Well, for those with good memories, Athena stated to Helo, Kara and possibly Anders (while on Caprica) that the Cylons had a theory that love was missing from the equation in prior attempts at reproduction. I doubt, save Tigh, Ellen loved anyone she was with, same situation applies with Baltar. I see Kara with a patch on her shoulder all the time, so either she's on the patch, or trying to kick smoking . Regardless, with as much sex as BSG has, their birth control must be 100%. I also recall some pretty nasty complications with Hera's birth. This may continue to speak about the differences between the 7 and the 5. The only problem with Chief's son, is he is frakin fat . Speaking of children, anyone wondering what little Cally is going to do when she finds out she's married to a Cylon and bore a half Cylon child to boot? She hates the Cylon. After seeing that last supper picture with Chief holding the knife, and the way Cally is towards the Cylon, I could see her trying to off her kid and herself, and Chief having to stop her with a good old fashion shanking to save his child, the 2nd of a new generation. There are so many interpersonal relationships that will strain and I imagine, break as a result of the people who are now known to be 4 of the final 5. I can see where things have the potential, as was mentioned, to get a whole lot darker.

I think holding off to see if we get more bites wouldn't hurt. But I'm pretty open either way. In case it was missed above: Prediction, Baltar

That's part of what makes this show so awesome though. Is that we can debate on all the ins and outs of it. Hell we could all be wrong, and that'd be ok too as long as it stays true the series we've all come to enjoy. As for the pool, I think that might be pretty awesome. I suppose with as big as my mouth is on the subject I should put some money where it is at 10ish bucks a person. I'd be down. I love that MK II statue. EDIT: My vote is definitely for Baltar as the final Cylon.

Point taken. Zarek suggested that Baltar use that planet as a hot button issue to win the election. He also, in the end, did provide a way for Roslyn to become president again. I think the later was more because he knew he wasn't the right man to be the commander and chief so to speak. He wanted a hand in the government, but not be it's figurehead. I also think that at that point, he also more or less that Roslyn was right for the job. Tori attempted to fix an election with the aid, of another final 5 member (Tigh) and was partially involved with the resistance on New Caprica. I think her role is a bit more equal to Tom though. However, Anders has played his part. He lead the resistance on Caprica, was a prominent member of the resistance on New Caprica. I also credit him (along with Athena and Helo) with saving Kara from the farm on Caprica (she would have easily been recaptured without the rescue). So while his screen time is minimal, he's done quite a bit in my eyes. He also is or was in a romantic relationship with Kara, tying him to one of the shows most important figures. We may see more of Tom in S4, but I'm still pretty adamant the final Cylon is going to be big, or it wouldn't be such a deep dark secret. Imagine if it was say, D or Gaeta or even Tom. Would there be that huge "Holy frak" moment like when we found out Tigh and Tyrol were Cylons? I for one would be like...well crap, that was a waste of some perfectly good conflict. Also, in addition to my Baltar theory, I'd like to add a few things onto that. His ability to project, or have an experience so remarkably similar. Also, I noticed that one of the drawings D'anna does before she is boxed, features a bearded man, with hair behind the ears. At the time of this episode, the image is a solid ringer for Gaius. I've probably seen that episode...5 maybe 6 times now before I noticed, as it's not the primary focus of the shot. I think I still have S3 on my comp, I'll try and screen cap the shot I'm talking about. I also think in terms of the 5th, D'anna's reaction and the first Hybrids prophecy are our best clues to revealing who is our final Cylon. "The 5th, still in shadow, will claw towards the light. Hungering for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering." Zarek to me, doesn't fit this. He's done plenty that some may think he needs to be redeemed for, but he hardly strikes me as hungering for redemption. Also, while Tom pushed for settlement of New Caprica, it was Gaius' actions that ultimately lead humanity to being discovered. His "head 6" made him request the nuclear warhead for the Cylon detector wayyy wayyy back in season 1, which he then gives to Gina Inviere (Pegasus 6), who then proceeds to blow herself up. Which is what the Cylons detect drawing them to our haven and leading to the occupation. edit: typos

Honestly, dark is where I like to see things go. This show has never been flowers and gumdrops. For lack of a better term, I want some jaw dropping stuff to happen this season. Despite my fanatical love for the new BSG, my knowledge of the oldschool one is very limited. However, the beings of light thing with regards to the 5, seems possible, at least in part. I mean, heck look at how they are portrayed in the Opera House sequences. From what I do remember of old BSG, it was kinda campy, and didn't take itself all that seriously. As long as they keep doing what they are doing on the new BSG though, I doubt I'll be disappointed. Edit: Zarek came to mind as a potential Cylon, but honestly he's even more minor than D. Tori and Anders, at least so far, have been relatively minor, albeit important, characters thus far. Also, I hope I'm not coming off as some kind of elitist countering everyones ideas. I'm trying to be objective and not come off like a jerk, apologies though if I am.

yeah, Gaius was taken to an unused compartment on the Galactica.

I strongly disagree with Thrace being a Cylon. She's special no doubt, but negative on a Cylon. In my opinion, her entire experience as a character becomes invalid if she winds up being the 5th. Also, I think the fact that she dies, and comes back is a very obvious ploy at misdirecting us from the 12th model. The significant 7 resurrect, so why not the 5? I just think Kara is too obvious, even more obvious than Baltar appears at times. I would agree Rosalyn isn't either, though I believe there is more to her than what we've seen so far. I'm dying to see how this all plays out. What the Cylon truely are, their relationship to us, and the significance of the Final 5 are on the top of my "want to know list".

well he does get all that time with 6, which justifies wanting to be him in of itself . I'm also very curious about the Cylon side, though the "sneak peek" deal at the end of the ep gave some interesting insight. I can't wait.

Well..not quite, they are apparently streaming each new episode, Friday at 12 pm Eastern on Scifi's website. It had some commercial breaks in it and everything, and once it was over it was like "thanks come back next week". From what I've read, this feature is only available to those within the US. I will be watching, and tivo-ing and looking for a PC download tonight after it actually airs though

Anyone watch it streaming this morning on sci-fi? I of course, won't spoil anything, but this season is going to be great. The first ep was fantastic.