jenius

I'm looking forward to doing comparison shots. Ooh maybe I should build my 1/20 model finally.

8 minutes ago, treatment said:

official Tamashii page:

https://tamashiiweb.com/item/14638/

 

some details:

Scoepdog height:  165mm

 

That works out to 1/23 scale so we can probably round to 1/20. 

OOh and it's soon! 

You don't need to keep arguing your opinion.... it was settled. 

1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

I think the issue with the Bandai pic is that they used a focal length that gave the picture almost no foreshortening at all.

Definitely this. 

17 minutes ago, DownIsUp said:

I hope to God that this has ratcheted limbs like the VF-31 molds. With how much mass the legs have to deal with, ball joints would be insanely loose very soon

The VF-25 metal ball joint shoulder definitely has not aged well. 

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I had thought it was relatively self-evident given that I'm looking at quantifiable benchmarks of performance.

Quantifiable? You're not doing that at all. In fact, you're going out of your way to avoid "Quantifiable" because it refutes what you say. How many countries did it have to air in to be "large"? How many markets did it have to penetrate? "I think not a lot of people like it today" is as close as you've come there... 

Quote

Marketing has all but completely devalued the term "hit", but what I'm looking at in terms of Robotech's performance relative to its facing competition... that is to say, relative to the other merchandise-driven animated kid's shows that were active at approximately the same time as Robotech in the mid-1980s.

That's a very convenient thing to say since any cursory google search of Robotech will define it as a "Hit show from the 1980s that aired over most the world."

3 hours ago, tekering said:

Cultural impact is impossible to analyze objectively, of course, but the Internet can provide some useful statistics; Google search results, for example.

• A search for "Robotech" results in about 8.8 million hits, roughly half of the number of results for "Macross."
• A search for "ThunderCats" results in about 15.3 million hits, slightly less than for "Macross."
• A search for "Ulysses 31" results in about 16.8 million hits, slightly more than for "Macross." 
• A search for "Exosquad" results in about 416,000 hits.
• A search for "Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors" results in less than 120,000 hits (but still more than "Thunderbirds 2086"). ☺️

These are all "statistically insignificant," of course, next to something like Ghostbusters (74 million hits), TMNT (107 million hits), or Transformers (a whopping 700 million hits)!

It is, as Seto says, a fundamental difference in scale.

That's helpful. Bizarrely, if I run a search on these things my numbers are very different. Maybe Seto draws the line for "large" at something that would have 15 million hits or more and I would say something that hasn't had a successful sequel since 1985 and still generates about 9 million hits was large and impactful (my Robotech search results in 14.5Million hits, Thundercats returns 20.5 million). There you have it, a quantifiable end to this debate and we can all choose where we fall. 

Whoa! Loving the little pilot figure. What's the side by side picture saying? They made the thighs larger or it has an extension gimmick?

It will be mine....

6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Your criteria here are vague, nebulous, or just downright impossible to define. Bigger than average just begs the question of what you're using to determine average and how, the idea of a robust fandom is somewhat counterindicated by the steady decline of the Robotech fandom during the period when the comics were the dominant form of the series as measurable via the decline in sales, and this bit about inspiration is entirely subjective.

Have you offered definitions of "large" and "Impactful"? The sense is that your idea of "large" is like "top 10 of the decade" and "impactful" is specific to today rather than in its era. You speak of the 'declining fandom of Robotech', a show that was on almost 40 years ago and has had a continued (though declining) fandom since then as proof it didn't have an impact... but it is the opposite. The fact there was such a large fandom from 40 years ago that it is measurable by any means today shows it had impact. The fact there are volumes of merchandise, failed attempts at sequels by a company that had a history of only being motivated by quick cash grabs, proves there was a "large" audience there. This is just haters trying to hate. 

At least the super parts are included.

17 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Hm... if that's how you feel, I'm probably not doing a fantastic job of explaining the connections in my thinking. 

The sales numbers don't bear out the idea that there was huge demand for Robotech.  They initially sold reasonably well for indie comics, but we're still talking a per-issue circulation in the thousands rather than the tens or hundreds of thousands.  This was not huge demand by any objective standard.  It was the biggest title that Comico, Eternity, and Academy's catalogs had, but that's an incredibly low bar to clear for such small independent publishers.  (Especially ones that were already shedding titles for various reasons.)

You don't need to run out a dozen separate titles if your main title is selling well.  That's something you do when you've reached saturation in your market and the book isn't bringing significant numbers of new readers in anymore and/or your existing titles aren't making ends meet.  If you need to boost sales and bringing in new readers isn't an option, you produce more titles under the same banner in order to get that limited customer pool buying multiple books.  None of these books were selling more than a few thousand copies, so even if readership was mutually exclusive demand wasn't substantial.  It's the same thinking behind the massive crossover events the superhero comics do so often.  If you can't bring in new readers, make the existing readers buy multiple books.

 

I think what we're looking at here is fundamentally a difference in scale.  Robotech may have been very impactful on a personal level  for some members of the community here, but this is a small fan community and even here Robotech is a niche interest within our already niche interest in Macross.  This community would almost certainly still exist without it, esp. given that Macross made it to the west in other forms than Robotech in the 80's and 90's both legitimately and in bootleg form.

What I'm looking at, and what I feel most of the people here understood me to be talking about, is the bigger picture.  Robotech was quickly forgotten by general audiences outside of its small "cult" fandom, pop culture rarely acknowledges its existence, it didn't really make a lasting mark on the anime industry, and what little it has in name recognition stems mainly from the legal problems it caused over the years rather than any part of its story.

Acknowledging that Robotech has always been kind of an obscure, niche series is by no means a criticism of it... nor should it impinge upon your enjoyment of it.

It's the last paragraph where you continue to be wrong. It was a modest hit, created plenty of fans who craved more, and comic book creators tried to cash in on that. Their failure to produce quality products, much like HG's sequel attempts and Matchbox's merchandise ushered what could have been something bigger into an early grave. Saying "yeah but today not many people care about it" doesn't mean it never did well. ALL of my friends owned at least one Robotech product, or Jetfire.

Your idea of "large" and "impactful" is not "bigger than average" and "generated a lot of merchandise, developed a robust fandom, and inspired a lot of kids and writers". You have some other definitions you're playing by but I disagree with them. 

It seems like a part that can be drilled out and replaced with a metal dowel if you could find one of the right diameter. Really good to know about this issue though, seems like it will be a widespread thing. 

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Not really, no... but then, the term "large" is also rather subjective.

If there had been a large audience hungry for Robotech, well... its ratings would have been better than the middling-at-best numbers it got, its toy line would have sold better, and that first comic book license would have gone to a more upscale publisher able to do a far better job instead of struggling indie publisher Comico Comics because the projected return on investment would've been better.  This potentially could've saved Robotech II: the Sentinels from cancellation... leading to all kinds of other consequences.

It's not the "sheer volume" that's telling... it's that that sheer volume of Robotech material is crap.  Even when it was new, the Robotech license wasn't valuable enough to attract a major publisher.  That's why the license ended up in the hands of one troubled indie publisher after another.  Those indie publishers did cheaper, lower quality work because they were only expecting to sell a few thousand copies of any given book.  Multiple concurrent titles was a way to wring a few more bucks out of those few thousand customers who were already buying one book.  Every penny counts when your total circulation could fit into a high school football stadium, y'know? 

If Robotech had the kind of following that'd move 100,000+ copies a month like Superman or X-Men, the license would've been picked up by a competent publisher who could've done quality work.  Because it only had a following big enough to move maybe 7,500 copies in a really strong month it ended up in the hands of indie publishers Comico, Eternity, Academy, and Antarctic Press, who did kind of mediocre or rubbish work.

 

The same is basically true for the RPG license.  Because interest in the brand was quite low, the license ended up in the hands of a small independent publisher with noticeably backwards business practices who did their best... but their best was still a pretty amateur-hour job.

Actually, having the license end up in the hands of a struggling indie company with financial problems and questionable management seems to be a franchise-wide theme with Robotech now that I think on it... 🤔

Obviously, you're entitled to the opinion, but I feel like you ignore your own arguments to make your point. There was so much demand for ANYTHING Robotech that indie companies crapped out comics by the truckload to try to make a buck. The sheer volume absolutely is telling. I would argue that Robotech was a very brief hit that left a large mark on, compared to most drivel from the 80s, a lot of people. By no means the largest, but still, a not insignificant amount of people. It could have been much more impactful had it been created by a company that wasn't just looking to make a buck on other people's hard work, a company that had deeper connections, and if the license wasn't sponsored by a toy company that was out of its element. If HG had connections to the comic book industry like some of the major TV companies did, things might have been very different. Coming in 40 years later to a forum that still owes much of its existence to this show and saying "it's not impactful" just strikes me as willfully obtuse. I guess we all have different goal posts here for "large" and "impactful". Certainly nothing I've ever done has reached as broad an audience. 

Wow!

I was referring to when Robotech comics first started getting pumped out when a bunch of kids were around wondering why that show never got a second season.

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Eh... that's several layers down in the "a tiny minority of" nesting doll.  Or, in more scientific terms, "the sample population in question is statistically insignificant".

The point being made, and the reason the Robotech comics are the way they are, is that Robotech came and went largely unnoticed and unremarked-upon.  It resonated with a small portion of its already small audience, but otherwise there was little to indicate it'd existed at all aside from merchandise returned unsold until it became a legal obstacle other better remembered properties like BattleTech, Transformers, and Macross.

Doesn't the sheer volume of Robotech crap argue against your point though? Clearly there was a large audience hungry for more and getting nothing from HG so they hoped comics would scratch the itch... It didn't work out well. I don't know, maybe I'm just interpreting things differently. 

With the super parts on and the wings canted downward, it gives me a Klingon ship vibe.

7 minutes ago, The Original Cobywan said:

An Elegoo Mars 2 Pro.  There are better ones on the market now but I'm still happy with this one.

Thanks, I'm thinking about getting a 3D printer this holiday season.

It may have felt like an ad hominen, but it wasn't. Just a reflection on the fact that Robotech had a pretty large and clear impact on a lot of folks here. Had Robotech been the child of a company that wasn't just a cash-grab licensing outfit, it could have been much more impactful for sure. It's true, it wasn't as impactful as a great many things from the 80s. Saying "it wasn't impactful" though is setting a subjective, arbitrary bar that the words you are typing, in the location you are typing them on, undermines the argument. The sheer volume of trees wasted on garbage Robotech comics was impactful . As for impact, a lot of love for anime blossomed from the combine efforts of Robotech and many other 80s imports and helped foster that industry. You could never say Robotech is responsible for popularity of Japanese anime in the states, but it probably helped. So, Robotech compared to the Bible? Not impactful.  Robotech comics impact on the comic book industry? Not impactful. Robotech compared to Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors or DinoRiders? Hey, Robotech was a big part of the inspiration of ExoSquad and that cartoon rocked.

Very nice! What printer are you using?

I wonder if there's pressure on the span in fighter mode that's causing the break over years of storage.

You guys have pictures? 

Sadly, I just broke a tab off an Arcadia Vf-1 hip using their trouble fighter mode display stands adapters... Grrr.

Feels kind of hollow when a guy on an English language Macross site probably pressing 50 years old says Robotech didn't have much of an impact. 

You must have an issue with the position the neck plate is in... I haven't encountered that problem before. Transform back to Gerwalk and fiddle with the plate below the head.

I would have guessed a 'full set pack' like the YF-19 but since the next YF-19 reissue is no longer full set... I have no clue.