1/1 LowViz Lurker

But even stuff like alaska base which nobody can remember from the show? If people don't recognise it, they might not get it. But if they are collectors they might snap them up out of the hope they are rare. (exactly what happened to LV 1) Then the artificial demand created by the hoarder, renews interest in the rare ones, and yamato can create variants of it. (exactly what happened with credit card valk turning into mass production stealth valk)

I picked alaska base green. All the paint schemes that didn't appear very often or for very long would be good LE actually. So many releases as is though.

That green looks like a big improvement. Arrrgh. And the green gunpod of the camo valk tempts me too.

That's such a shame. I'm very happy with the monster and hope we see more surprise releases like it. Maybe variable glaug or something. So long as there are fixes in later releases I am grateful. The way I figure it, you could always sell your first releases for cheap, and then upgrade to buy newer release when or if it becomes available. If there won't be anymore releases and the thing becomes rare, at least you are on the safe side. From now on I am going to be super delicate with anything first release just as a precaution. If not because they may be fragile, then because they are expensive or because you never know what you might do on your first handling of the toy when trying to transform the thing. (the FAST packs on the 1/48 vf1 always stress me out a little because one day the weight of these may snap the hinge off the valk)

I would love to buy a ghost with VF0 pack. Or maybe even a roy 0S with Reactive armor pack. *drools* (hopefully by then they will have super duper tight joints able to withstand the extra weight)

So tempted to get a stealth...Looks intimidating in battroid mode.

Nobody said inferiour. Just that without the function of variable modes it was less advantageous in some situations because it stands still to fire. (no hovering and strafing) Specialising only in one thing. This GBP highlights the fact that a weapon which can be upgradeable like the valk means it is not just used for one thing. It can be a mecha with missiles, a super valk with canon, or just plain atmospheric fighter. You can eject any of this when necessary to "shed dead weight" which could save your life. Like the upgradable weapon pack in gundam seed which can fullfill all roles. Unlike 8th MS Team which relied on every person on the team in order to survive. If one died you lost one ability. Instead, why not have a machine that is good all round as a main weapon? You can still have those other robots, but because they are specialised they should only be made in smaller qauntity where needed. (and BTW valks can be modded for civilian use too like the oe with the harpoon gun, so I don't see anything wrong with the base vf1 needing "upgrades" to enhance itself)

King nor in response to your original question about the sprint runner: It depends on the genes and how much they practice and how much each one cheated using performance enhancing drugs.

I never said destroid were not useful. Nor did I say tanks were not useful. But that there are room for improvement. A variable destroid like the monster can fly over mountainous terrain or forego having to walk through the stuff. It's more a threat if it can fly as well. Variable fighters in macross zero beat normal ones because they can offer more flexibility. Against an alien race with big numbers there is the threat that if the destroids or anti air defense fails (and it does) then a valk needs to rush in and take out those that managed to slip past the defenses. Three example in macross where this happens: 1. In macross Zero while shin is fighting the anti-un, a base is blown up. They were sent to fight decoys. The destroid provide some defense but against faster pilots that expect those tough defenses and can dodge anything that is thrown thier way, there needs to be a vf to take them on and at least match the speed to be able to shoot it down. I admit it has more to do with the pilots than the machines but that just brings home my point that a situation where an ace can create an opportunity to kill the crew of a ship still exists as a valid threat. Destroids can't be everywhere, and people's attention can be divided, so a faster machine able to keep up to be able to shoot one down is necessary. 2. In DYRL hikaru and the others are out there fighting the regults and "OH poo!" It's a diversion to keep our attention away from protecting the sdf1. The zentradi send in thier powered suits, manage to get past the weakened defenses, and actually breach the hull killing innocent people. Hikaru sees the plan, races at high speed back to the sdf1 and protects the bridge (could have been a kamikaze attack which might have wiped out the crew) and races to fight the ones that got through those defenses. You need speed to respond that quickly. Of course misa would never admit she screwed up here. But it is obvious if hikaru had not got there in time things could have been worse. 3. In SDF:Macross when the regult sneak past the defenses and submerge in the water, attacking the city around the sdf1 and hoping to surround the ship. It wasn't destroid that had to race back to a zone to defend the ship but VF which had the speed to make it in time. In all instances I can see advantages to having a machine able to get there in time at high speed, transform into whatever robot mode (offers good enough armor) they have for cover, and fight the alien mecha. That doesn't mean destroids are useless but I was merely pointing out that I rate the valk as a higher and more useful machine because of the variable modes. To an ace they may be more concerned with shedding some weight if it means more opportunities to fight against the faster targets able to get past the defenses more effectively. (so sometimes you will see a character in the show come up with some invention or pioneering technique that sets them apart from the others) In no way was I saying we should scrap the destroid, but that if a variable mode was added (like with the monster) it might fill up a gap lacking in the current generation of destroid. Just as we graduated from propeller planes to jets, having more speed can make a big difference in terms of how much damage an enemy is allowed to do. Lighter airframe can be worth it with the idea that you can cover more distance in shorter time. (and if you are good pilot you will never ever let yourself be put in a situation that exposes your ass as an easy target, like the way nora or shin fought in macross Zero. A good pilot has a way to never let another pilot take a free shot by following careful guidelines. In fact that is probably why shin was so upset he got shot down: maybe this was the first time he ever let somebody get a shot at him and this hurt his ego since he puts lots of effort in not making stupid mistakes. I'm not disagreeing that destroid that are dedicated to fighting on the ground wouldn't be better than one not designed specifically for that (any more than I am arguing an F1 racer is better than a 4 wheel drive in going in rough territory) but that rather: a destroid does have limits (just like a valk) and even after taking this into account (that it IS more suitable for a specific task) that is doesn't hurt to improve on the destroid. (through making a destroid more flexible and hopefully plugging a gap to avoid a situation like the three instances above. We must assume the enemy already knows that the most sensitive areas are going to be heavily fortified by AA, and assume that an enemy will send its elite pilots to deal with that. Elite pilots = -Max (able to dodge pretty much anything) -Nora (uses the VF even better than shin in mac zero, so she has an advantage) -Hikaru (manages to dodge all the defense using some fancy flying, which kinda makes up for the lack of armor) The philosophy of "shedding weight to avoid being hit" is one that might appeal to the cocky pilot more than the grunt. But the cocky pilot with demonstratable skill is not the same: they will mod or custom thier vehicle so that even if faced with unsurmountable odds they can: 1. aim thier weapons much quicker (having faster turn rate, this is so that the machine can keep up with them. They have the skill many target at once but the machine lets them down in some way) 2. perform advanced manuevers (gundam had the black tristars team with thier "slistream attack") macross has the VF variable modes to trick people they are vulnerable until the last second. Oh and for those reading this that don't watch the show, this reply is more directed for those that have seen it and know what I am refferring to. It's more a response to JB0 than one for the whole thread. 3. not having chunky body parts that obstruct thier movement. (for example the destroid have bulky feet and stuff that makes them look a little clumsy. The Qrau looks "refined". Armor flows smoothly, and with a big ass backpack it looks as if it could boost very quickly from one place to another) Sometimes having too much armor can affect those fine motions you need to be able to perform certain things. (eg being able to draw a gun quicker, spin to face another direction, lock an opponent into a grapple hold etc Remember that the valks still beat the destroid in terms of being taller and more athletic in appearance, while the destroids are like "the dwarf" with lots of follow through in thier moves because of the mass, but slow. When faced with multiple target a valk might be able to spin quickly to face an opponenant and eliminate some of that lag.) Those are all small things that an elite pilot might "complain about" that other pilots might not care for. When amuro ray complains that the machine is "too slow to keep up with his movements", it means he has to wait before he can fire a shot for example. That delay is not a problem for the normal ones who may want more stability, since they machine is already fast "for them". Now in my previous posts in response to someone saying: "why use powered suits when we have valks?" I am saying that perhaps the powered suit has advantages the way a dedicated destroid might have advantages in certain things. (that is the aliens can control a machine they are used to, it may be better in space combat than atmosphere for manuevering etc) Well it is more a case of the aliens having more numbers. There may be no other option but to rush through it. So they create the diversion, send as many forward to advance as quickly as they can, and this leads to a few managing to breach those defenses. In no way is this insulting to the destroid guys, just that the speed of the of attack itself may take them by surprise. (which is why I was commenting about the Qrau being in some ways better and faster than a valk in space where there is lots of open space to move, and thrust in 3d dimensions as opposed to inside a confined area where you can't dodge so easily) I was just saying that aliens may have the advantage if they were to fight full force. It might be crucual for those aliens to take desperate measures to ensure the main gun doesn't fire another shot at them and wipe out thier ships. Meanwhile to those aliens out there on the battleground: "if we don't have a ship to return to what's the point of taking our time?" So speed is important. They have to get in, hopefully control the place when they get inside, and then take the ship as thier own. If the gun fires, or thier ship destroyed, the pilot can't fold out. So they are pretty much stranded. So to me it makes more sense they would take a heavy offensive aproach ignoring any reasons for holding back within the story. (and just going by sheer number) The first point about machine not moving like people: that is true. But everyone has preffered controls for doing the same thing. Some like very sensitive control, others like stable controls, some like auto transmission, others like manual. There may be some freedom for people who like manual. Like when you target an object, instead of just locking onto its centre, you might prefer to guide the shot to the head even though there is a higher chance you miss. I'm sure max needed to put his own skill into aiming when trying to shoot the zentradi regult in the crotch area in SDF:Macross in order not to kill the pilots, that a computer guided system would have ignored. For unguided weapons you might like the precision that comes with your own hands in shooting stuff is all. Like if I know a Qrau likes to jump suddenly, instead of aiming for the machine, I might want to read the pilot's intentions, aim directly above, and hope the pilot meets the fire. So even though I take that gamble, (not knowing 100% if they will do try to jump) the choice to do that might be based on experience against pilots trained to fight in a certain way and move around in a certain method rather than me being very accurate shot or having great reflexes. It might have just been a case of me anticipating the move rather than me having lightning speed. This is why I was saying that for a fast moving target, where you don't have the luxury of waiting to lock on to anything before firing, you might like to use your instincts instead. About the movie: no, of course they have zoom. It is more because in the movie fighter mode is used to launch the missiles, both sides have missiles, but the zentradi are taking an offensive stance by rushing forward. So it kinda forces the pilots to respond defensively to make sure they don't penetrate the line. So what do they do? Transform into battroid mode, (possibly exploit the use of articulated limbs to shoot stuff rather than have a fixed forward firing gun) and confront the enemy at close to medium distance. If the enemy has missiles swarming at you, and superior numbers, you got to have a wider firing arc the closer they get. And in space there is no cover. If there is no cover, you can't just rely on free shots from great distance because there is stuff happening very close to you as well. while you are zooming in at stuff from a distance you got people at your sides, below, above and around you to. It is not as if the enemy with superior numbers will stand still for your to shoot at them easily is all I'm saying. You got to think in 3d dimensions and how there is the freedom to move at very quick speeds. (see the Qrau in the tv series) Actually there is a gundam arcade game with a wrap around monitor. And if there is a dedicated gunner it wouldn't really be a powered suit would it.. My reason for highlighting an advantage of the powered suit is that the person using it feels as if it is like an extentsion to thier own body rather than a vehicle to be driven. Like how you can have those foot pedals and the robot walks forward, vs how the knight sabers choose to wear the armor on thier body and it just powers thier own movements. So instead of locking on to minmay to pick her up, the alien might just prefer to use manual controls by guiding the arm the old fashioned way. (like those skill tester machines where you got to guide a crane to pick up a prize and hope it drops in the tube for you to collect the prize) Now that I think about it, yeah the Qrau is more like a giant sized mecha of small size (for a giant) rather than a suit. I think the claws might be controlled by the individual fingers of the pilot though. So picking up a dropped gun or making a fist might be determined by what the operator's own hand is doing. Of course he has support, but the aliens have massive ships too. They can do more than one thing at a time too. I'm just saying that if an elite pilot is in a Qrau and speeds in to close the distance and zigzags like mad, it won't always be you shooting from a massive long range distance because it needs to do some damage to something important within a certain time. If one guy is moving at max speed and wants to shoot it, he has to at least chase the thing to get a steady shot and a good angle. That means you got to move at about thier speed or greater. I'll assume there is a maximum zoom on the mecha like there would be on binoculars. Just because you can see these tiny blurry dots in the distance and have unlimited range, is no garuantee you kill something if you think the gunsight was aimed right on the dot. Any tiny motion could put you off by a lot. A less skilled person might need to get closer to really hope to hit anything. Plus these are moving targets. So I reason there might be a ideal range to start to shoot. (assuming weapons don't overheat from constant shooting or other factors) It might be easy for someone with a steady hand and sharp eye to attempt to hit these tiny ants which you can barely make out on the blown up screen, but having some kind of control over what you hit is important too. Closing in might give them better chance of controlling what it is you hit and increasing the chance your slight nerves don't put your aim off by a lot. (since I gather it takes a lot longer to hit a moving target from a long distance than close - maybe the priority for aliens is to just kill as many targets within a certain time rather than picking at them slowly and hoping something hits which would take ages because of the low chance of hitting stuff from extreme distance?) If there is no upper limit of maximum zoom, ok then I can agree. A Qrau will just fire all the arm lasers from the greatest distance. But because I think the zoom might have a limit and the nerves of the pilot might be too sensitive to control the gunsight very well, personally I think this would be frustrating. I doubt it would do any meaningful damage or even hit what they intended to aim for if, given they were at the maximum zoom they could barely make out what was going on. Also realise that in space you got more space to "cover with fire". (front, back, sides, above, and below) You can't afford to only rely on looking in one direction and risk being shot from anything from those directions so it pays to keep moving anyway.(as opposed to focusing only on what is ahead) But I do think speed is crucual factor enough that it can more than counter balance superior firepower, range and armor. Just because you got more powerful guns, can take more damage, and shoot far doesn't mean the machine moves efficiently enough to make good use of it. The added weight might mean your steps are slow, the fat feet might effect how you move about, taking ages just to get going and face the multiple targets. Not being able to hover across the surface might mean you can't strafe and shoot at the same time with any reasonable amount of stability enough to shoot things while moving. No ability to do a boosted jump or do a fancy commando roll on the ground in style. I know I know.. they are good for the task they were designed for so I will lay off the argument from now on. Doesn't stop them from being attacked easily from faster mecha in the show though. Or that limiting themselves to a single role means they take ages to get to a place. It's like we have armored soldiers in medieval days whose movement is hampered by the heavy armor, and it was tiring and inefficent to actually walk around. But we also had horses for them to mount to get from place to place. A valk is more like the latter. Not as many restrictions on what zones it can protect so I give it credit for mobility. Granted a valk might have lighter armor, but it moves more gracefully as a robot, can cover itself easily in a built up area (destroid seem to have very little articulation - I don't they can even crouch down) and has other advantages that might be very useful where having to chase your target is crucual to get a clear hit. Nothing stopping a giant with a RPG outrunning a slow heavily armed robot and blowing them up. But a Qrau in the tv series, is practically never seen standing still. In fact it is always either dashing from one side to another, somersaulting and spinning, and flooding the area with micromissiles so that nothing it locked on to can escape. It's the ferrari of mecha imo. A robot that can run fast is still slower than one that hovers with a backpack or can send enough force in a single punch to penetrate armor. Imagine if that qrau was armed with a hand carried rpg like the ones you see in gundam? Combining the speed with power? Fair enough. But originally when I used the analogy I meant to refer to three things: 1. clock = dedicated destroid 2. clock radio = variable destroid 3. good quality hi-fi system = valk (more expensive, more sopisticated, multiple functions etc) the clock is dedicated to telling the time. The clock radio doesn't suffer in telling the time, but adds some of the functionality of the third (it can play music) even though not in the greatest quality. While the hi-fi is the best for playing music on the same way a valk has better handling than variable destroid. The idea is that just because a destroid is dedicated to something, doesn't mean it can't be improved upon when adding something to it. The clock radio is still better than a clock because it combines two functions: telling the time and waking you up early, all in one thing. The octos is one example. Swims around in the water for surprise attack, but has some limited functionality on land. It's land features doesn't need to be the best in the world for it to "matter". Having it makes enough of a difference to the usefulness of the pilot inside than not having it. Ok but increasing speed and stuff is something which we all want, it is something that is worth paying money for. It's why we have computers that can process more information, cars that can go faster and run more efficiently, we award medals and trophies to teams that perform the best. If you can save time (like the variable glaug, monster, and fighter) eliminate waste, use less energy to get from point A to B, then whether it needs it or not isn't the issue. It's whether we want it or if it is worth having. We don't need the light bulb. It was invented. But yet we use lightbulbs everyday. We don't need tv. But we use them everyday and benefit from them. We don't need microwave ovens etc.. Doesn't mean the current generation of tech works perfectly where th AA is sufficient to catch them all the time. Skill of the pilot is a factor too. One of the trends in mecha shows is that a particular hot shot pilot wants to take risks or show off and do stuff that allows them to take on his opponents in style. You do that by taking risks and gaining rewards for those risks. So similarly, I came up with the idea that the bigger more elite zentradi might like powered suits because maybe it is how they wish to fight rather than enjoy squeezing thier body in a tiny human cockpit forced to use inferiour human-made technology. Some people like loud bikes like Harley Davidsons. There is no practical reason, it might be thier way of standing out or the way the engine feels. Although the Variable QRau (yf21) wasn't perfect, that shouldn't stop the aliens from seeing the advantages in using the system. Remember these are people who have people's brains hooked to a ship. Things can sometimes break, not work as efficiently as the product advertises and malfunction too. Like the gundpod jamming in macross plus and leaving the pilot defenceless for a second. Fair enough. But it's cool that it can actually hover or float in space right? The big ape commander in Macross was huge. Maybe turning into a robot means it can fight ultra giant powered armor of his mass? Maybe there are class of zentradi soldier bigger than even him? (who is bigger than britai) Who knows? If I were inside one I would feel grateful that advances in technology and the funding for more mobile artillery mecha were being made. This way I can transform in space, shoot a few of those heavy bullets at ranges I normally wasn't allowed to had I been glued to the surface of the SDF1 or whatever ship has me sitting there and do more stuff. The robot mode of the SDF1 was used merely to fire the main cannon but now all the ships like it do that. Well the spartan going against him might have been too slow. Kinda like how the terminator was in terminator 1. It had lots of punch, but note how heavy it was that pretty much each time Kyle Reese and Sara Conner hit it with weapons to knock it down, it took ages to chase them? Or when robocop in the robocop movies had that punch that sent that guy flying into the fridge in the convenience store, but look how slow his feet move? The ed209 had better weapons than robo, yet because of his smaller size, the ED209 had problems dodging a shot from the grenade launcher that a smaller more mobile robot might have dodged. At least robocop could avoid the rocket. So I say: why not combine speed, small size, with power? There are animals in nature that have a good combination of speed (can run real fast! Faster than humans because they got to chase prey) and power in one? Like tiger or lion or whatever? A valk has lots of power in its speed, so it just means it has to fight differently to the spartan. Just because it is not the dedicated task to smash stuff with big fists, doesn't mean it has to suck at it either. I think if the valk hade the VF11 gunpod's bayonet it could stab it in the cockpit and kill the pilot quicker than the spartan could bat the Valk with the billy club. (lets assume both have used up all thier ammo) The reason being that a valk can slide on the ground and hover a little and jump to a safe distance using its speed. With later valks, using PPB, it might even be able to do certain special moves like charge into the opponent while blocking using the bullet proof shield. Although the spartan has the advantage due to size and armor, its survival in many varied environments makes it too easy to beat in other ways by being too specialised rather than good in many things. An example is when Max escapes the zentradi ship in the tv series by turning into gerwalk and charging into enemies at high speed. You can't do those kind of things if you are wieghed down by so much armor. If you are moving fast the last thing you need is armor to weigh you down. Much better to run and avoid getting hit altogether. I'm just saying: Spartan being designed for close combat doesn't necessarily save you from swarm of QRau. Since the Qrau is faster than a valk and yet is able to pack so many of those missiles. It's a fictional universe so we could both be wrong. There are disadvantages to only being good at one thing is all I'm saying. Some people rely on others to do a good job in thier side (in Mobile Suit Gundam: 8th Mobile Suit Team where they actually make good use of the long-range ability of the artillery mecha for example, but these are hopeless at other stuff) and some like to fight in a mecha that is well rounded in everything. (ie the humanoid shaped robots in all the gundam shows that have upgradeable or exchangable weapon packs or a variety of different hand-carried weapons to suit each specific mission) Having one dedicated robot works in gundam so why not macross? It's not the real world so we can't perfectly compare it. You never see the guy in the Guntank charge in and fight up close against the main villain do you? Because those are the grunt mecha with last generation technology. I think of the Destroids as being like that. They do have better armor, I agree but not enough to save them against pilots that know thier weaknesses or know what they are doing. Like knowing the turning rate, knowing the speed they can run, how many hits it take to take them down, whether they can react fast enough to cover a great distance etc, and exploiting that weakness each time. Unless the destroid have some kinda beam resistant armor, maybe the zentradi have it easy and can slice through the human mecha with ease after upgrading thier weapons to slice through more layers of armor per shot through studying the humans' mecha? Lord only know how long they've been fighting as a warrior race and how many other cultures they encountered and destroyed before. It's not like they are beyond adapting to primitive human strategies. Suuuure...it's ok for us to adapt and upgrade our valks into super valks to make better space fighters, but the aliens stay the same level, don't learn our weaknesses, how to divert our attention, and have to hold back by not using thier superior numbers to swarm us, all while thier machines have to stay at the same speed and responsivness. (no super qrau upgrade for you milia!) Oh and guess what? We can shoot them from miles away with no damage to ourselves because they can never catch us or ever have a situation where we have to fight them up close (people only fly in space in straight lines, no zigzagging allowed). Right, so convenient.

Should have bought one of those first imo. 1/48 vf1 is yamato's best toy still. (everything locks together, no looseness, enough gimmicks and detail to make it enough of a step above 1/60 to be worth the cash) The only achilles heel is stickers, the little gunstrap can sometimes rip, the backpack piece (especially with fast packs on) and the wrist for the chicken hands being a little limp when holding the gunpod. Once you get one, you want to own as many variants as you can. (shame they need we have to buy them imported though - I wonder if yamato will ever make the boxes smaller?)

One quick question: Will they have FP and non-FP versions as seperate releases though? (I hope they just include FP with the valk) If the yf21 were to come out around yf19's time (august? that's crazy but I wouldn't complain or anything) I'd be pissed. I just bought a Nintendo DS Lite (impulse buy) so I wouldn't be able to afford it.

Three groups 1. UN - trying to unite the world to study the tech while lying to the public to maintain order - aliens are scary and will cause panic. 2. Anti-Un - Do not want to unite. "Why should we share anything". These don't want to be under the control of a central government. 3. those who don't care about the losses from the war, (either sides' losses) just war itself expanding to thier peaceful territory. They see the world from the point of view of an observer only. (the islanders hate whites for bringing thier war to thier island. Killing is wrong no matter the reason, so it stands to reason they would hate the sight of the un or anti un. Sara goes berserk in macross zero when she gets in the AFOS hoping to destroy everything.) I put the idea forth that the third group could be studied and known about by secret organisations showing interest them but not wanting the rest of the world to share in this knowledge. Ok in many of the gundam shows there are usually more than 2 sides. Each side has these two factions: 1. Some of them are hardliners who want to use force to show strength (put fear to discourage the enemy from trying anything) 2. Some of them want to negotiote with the other side. Being nice, hopefully not having to use force to settle anything. When both sides have the first type in control, it usually leads to wars. For example when the Zabi Family dominates from the original gundam079, there ambition is to use fear to control his people and make them angry so that he can expand his influence and use weapons to conquer other people. Zabi family created a dictatorship in the show and used mobile suits as weapons to kill people. The Zeon lose the war against the Federation. In Zeta gundam the same thing happen to the government on earth: The Titans were cruel and used all kinds of scare tactics to put fear into the public so that they will go along with thier stance. They were as bad as the Zabi family was in the original gundam having no shame in the need to kill innocents and going to new lows to maintain control. When two sides get out of control there is sometimes a third side made up of former members of either governments forces, usually hoping to end the war quickly and peacefully, and these are the heroes in the story. The AEUG are an example. Other types include: - terrorists who fight because they realise thier side lost the war, so for them even during peacetime they got to get revenge and fight for future generations so thier side doesn't look bad. (it's like when your footy team loses and you are pissed that it makes your local team you support look bad so you start fights with members who are supporters of the team that won) The character, Gato in Gundam StarDust memory is a perfect example. He is patriotic, ashamed the zeon lost the war, and wants to pick fights after the One Year War. (think of that as like world war II) He is a massive threat after he steals/gundam-jacks a nuclear-equiped gundam model. Although he is a massive threat to the earth government, it seems as if he was "allowed" to get as far as he did and destroy many lives just so the earth government could prove a political point: That we need more powers to stop these individuals from harming us. Thus the Titans (anti terror group) was born and more power was granted. The hardliners would be pleased as this was the opportunity to show the world how evil the other side could be and gain sympathy from the public. -arms dealers: happy to create a new war to profit from the sale of new weapons. So they actually assist in the plan against the earth federation. (war is profitable when both sides are at each other's throat - so even though they are "neutral" they also are likely to create a threat and help the losing side to keep business going for as long as possible.) the three groups: 1. The anti un = made up of people like gato. Very bitter and in a position to actually be a threat. 2. The un: like the earth federation. (has majority control. Sometimes cruel, as seen in footage in macross zero where nora accuses the un soldiers of having scarred her for life) 3. The secret group (I came up with from idea in other threads about this): they are not patriots of thier own country just profiteers, and/or exist on neither side. (eg the islanders in macross zero) They have absolutley nothing to gain whether either side wins and are pissed at both of them for having destroyed thier culture and land, not to mention intend to steal thier magic religious items of worship. You could say the priestess were secret enough to know about the aliens, because they foretold a coming event before it would happen through some psychic vision. Why does the third side likley to sympathise with the aliens? -They may be related to them -they've suffered from the foreigners taking away thier people to fight in wars -see war as evil, so turn the anger at the people involved with them -they might sympathise with the aliens out of fear: they don't want to anger them so they create some secret cult -are quite unsympathetic to the loss of lives as they have hardened their hearts; seeing war as inevitable, and other people's suffering as ok. The character, Char Aznable at one point in Char's Counterattack is quite comfortable launching space colonies at earth to "teach people living on earth a lesson" Even if it means loss of innocent lives. Just to force people to migrate to space to save the earth from humans not letting mother earth "heal". (due to pollution from overpopulation and to make humans "evolve" into higher form through the effects space will have on the human mind - don't ask) The islanders and other groups who know something will arrive (psychic visions?), may actually see benefits to aliens (maybe unite the world into peace or destroy the people they see as bad) but also fear that like a god it is coming to bring great destruction and catastrophe and judgment. (including them) So I figure there are secret organisations hoping to create backup plan. The un can exist, the anti un can exist, but both sides purpose is one step in a great scheme. They can help either side or hinder either side as they see fit. Not showing any loyalty to one or the other. If a few soldiers on the un side die, they hinder the plans of the anti-un. If the anti-un manages to kill too many pilots on the un side, they assist the un. Whoever gets too much power, they try to prevent from gaining more of it and wiping the other out completely. (record of lodoss war has a character like this, who is cynical of man's intent and knows that whoever wins the world will suffer, no matter what, if one side gains total control - evil can't be completely destroyed just because some do-gooder thinks he is righting wrongs in the world just by killing his enemies) Now what I'm saying is: that the Unification Wars are allowed to go on because this hidden hand wants there to always be some kind of opposition to watch what the other side does. But in the end has insiders on either team to maintain control from behind the scenes. (allowing for them to actually plot how they will bring about the wars without themselves getting thier hands dirty, but for the purpose of prepping mankind for the coming event.) If they know about the aliens, know what man will do when it finds out about the aliens, know that all kinds of people will get thier hands on the tech, at least it can do something when the aliens eventually kill humans by having backup plan if the aliens turn hostile. (so it is quite possible for this secret group to ensure one side fight the other side but not wipe out the other side completely, because this secret group was the one that had the idea to bring about all the wars in the beginning. (ie they wanted man to suffer by purposely forcing him into war with himself in the hope people would eventually be sick and reluctant to fight - pacifying them through spreading enough fear on either side by showing the horrors of war. Like the neutral character in Lodoss War.) My theory is that both anti-un, and UN are just two powers used by this group to ensure smaller groups fall into line under the control of the two main ones. Doing that ensures that if you choose to fight, then you have to answer to a power or threat bigger than you, effectively discouraging anyone from a fight and maintaining peace. If one of the sides thinks it can win, it at least has to pick a fight with something its own size or threat level and this might discourage one from fighting the other because it has to take a risk. After the rain of death that balance was maintained, the secret group disapeared, and the anti-un didn't register a blip on the radar as much anymore since so many would have died in the greatest catastrophe on earth. (note that there is a good un and bad one. The good one took over after maintaining peace with aliens and humans had to start over)

Well considering that Sara is more likely to sympathise with the bird human in macross zero, I dunno.. Like indiana jones there could be some people who specialise in the study of these people. Knowing about thier secret abilities and believing whatever ancient prophecies they read about in anticipation of a big event. In independance day they had a group of people who stood on top of buildings thinking the aliens would be friendly and had a party for them. The aliens were hostile but it was too late to do anything after that point. So maybe the people who know about the aliens or have theories about these aliens from stories handed to them from generation to generation and the priestesses with the levitation ability, develop some kind of backup plan for when the aliens don't want to be nice? (the point being how can we pay people to study this stuff without money. Where does the money come from if not from profits through war? Kill two birds with 1 stone. 1. create wars so horrific that people will get sick of them and stop fighting and remember the horror of it 2. make way for the coming invaders and worship them as god or help them like the people in "V". And .....if it goes all horribly wrong use the weapons to fight if there is no option open and the aliens just want to kill you.) The mere mention of aliens would send the world into panic. They had to keep it secret or all chaos would break out. (like the panic caused by the War of the Worlds radio play) The anti-UN would serve that purpose of being able to be blamed because they were a real enough threat to be a plausible excuse. Both sides would have to be ignorant of thier role in the grand scheme of course. The people in this group merely "use" either side against each other and watch them both. Not letting one have too much power that they can just wipe the other cleanly off the map. (very similar to the philosophy of the "Gray Witch" character in Record of Lodoss War: neither good nor evil. Just adding enough chaos in the world by trying to balance each side to make people scared to fight against each other, ..as a way to ensure peace. If you've seen it, you'll find that the gray witch doesn't really care who she used as pawns as to her it was a matter of balance: someone has to suffer in order for another to gain. If you can't destroy it,(evil) maybe try to tame it and direct it for a positive outcome.)

The aliens might not have been a threat to some groups. Like when sara predicts great destruction coming as a result of war, it could be viewed that the aliens were here to punish the evil do-ers and like the people in "V", (scared of them) thought they could escape with them from earth by allying themselves or making a deal with them. Loss of military equipment may have been necessary or preferable if they wanted a new world order that they could control under the permission of the aliens if they helped them "punish" the people they saw as evil here on earth. If people are going to fight wars: why not give them a war so horrific, so terrible and so risky (that is you have to suffer to gain, and there is no garuantee you will gain even if you win) that they wold be too scared to fight another one ever again? By having weapons, you could at least use these as a backup for when the aliens refuse to ally themselves to you. (I am assuming some humans knew the aliens were coming from the beginning but unsure if this god of thiers would be appeased even if they begged on thier knees)

The anti un stole the un designs, and it has got to be able to happen the same way it can happen in gundam: somebody defects. Someone jacks the secret weapons and sell it to other enemies, or the arms dealers create conflicts to make the selling of weapons easier helping one side if it looks like it is about to lose. (you can't sell anything in times of peace) Ie anti un are allowed to exist to make an example of why we need stronger defense and more funding for more powerful weapons. The titans did it, and letting gato get far enough allowed them to create the earth equivalent of what happened to zeon (zabi family takes over so they can have a dictatorship and then go and conquer the rest of the world) when char's family was assasinated. (was it his dad that was killed?) The anti-un, like gato, are probably used by the UN as the scape goat for any kind of terror. Because there is so much secrecy over aliens, they need an opponent to justify spending all this money on weapons so the public doesn't get suspicious. (giant robots had to be kept secret - "but why humanoid in shape" the press would wonder) So I think they created the "unification wars" both to get everyone united in reverse engineering the alien tech in secrecy, but also to allow for the advances you see as both sides compete for the technology and refine thier weapons. (similar to macross plus where both must compete for the contract) They need a war that will result in the best that earth can come up with to stand a chance against whatever it was that might come back to retrieve the ship and the technology. You can't accurately tell if you have the best unless both sides are fighting in realistic levels of danger so that is the true "purpose" of that war. The struggle for power was real, but why not use the enemy to your advantage in finding answers for you? (let the AUN progress just a little then crush them after they come up with a fighter using the stolen tech, all the while having eyes and ears within thier hidden bases?)

Not none. Just that speed and time is what makes the offensive strategy important. The aliens with thier superior numbers, can leaving the main defense for thier main attack force, while the faster ones rush forward and slip through the cracks. Meanwhile the valks rush to the areas of importance to defend against these guys. If these guys can get far enough its over. You can't stop what you can't chase. The destroids can only be in one place at a time while a valk can take advantage of its ablity to fly to where it needs to, transform and fight where ever. You only thinking in terms of aliens when they hold back thier forces. We aren't supposed to be able to hold out indefinately is all I'm saying. So speed and agility and survival is impportant. After we shot the zentradi with the grand cannon we should have expected to die from a blow from a giant. (superior numbers, more guns, more ships etc) Agility might be needed more. (we fly in, nuke those phuckers, then fly out of range or fold our butt out of there) And as for the point about zooming in to fight from a distance: in the movie that didn't happen. Just because you have zoom does not mean it is easy to hit a tiny targt from a long distance with that zoom. Any tiny sudden movement of the machine can put you off-target by heaps. So your hit percentage is low. And by blowing up an image, any tiny movement they make means you got to zoom back out just to see what it is you are looking at and where they moved. While you are trying to hit a zigzagging moving target, (blown up on your monitor with movements that are very jittery) that target might be slowly closing in or ready to fire its missiles on you. So its now time for the sniper to dance if it wants to live. The sniper now has to keep moving to avoid hits from the enemy, and cancel maximum zoom because there is no more cheap hits from a distance. While your moving to avoid, chances are you will be fighting at medium-short range if there are many targets! (That is to say, while you are busy trying to aim at one enemy, there are 5 others rushing forward to close the distance at maximum speed to surround you to make it harder for you to get all of them - not all pilots are max jenuis accuracy!) Instead what we do is hide behind cover and make ourselves hard to hit (go prone) or by constantly moving (out in an open space - but this requires a good turn rate and light frame, right? Destroids move like crap, but gerwalks can hover) or closing in to get a better shot (where a target is easier for us to hit like in a small corridor) This is why I think max had better chance to beat milia in the mech fight because milia had a bigger machine, and they were in a confined space. It might be that both fly at such fast speed, that they don't get a chance to lock on long enough to keep the gunsight steady enough to get a good shot. Destroids don't even fly so they would have even less chance. And aliens with energy weapons may have unlimited shots but they are force to guide those shots if they want to move onto new targets and kill more things before the time is up. So closing in and fighting up close might be "faster" because aliens might have an easier shot and can kill more targets in a shorter time than if they had sat back at long distance. So even if a destroid has more ammo, and specialised in anti air, the fact it can't move makes it a sitting duck. Valks can at least move in a situation where they are swarmed. So overall I put it at a lower level of ranking to other mecha. -Spartans being weak for not being able to fly -anti air destroid not good at close range. -monster being weighed down by armor (too specialised to move around unlike the variable version which is more threatening) -Valks being good at various tasks while not being too weak at what it is not dedicated to. (so you can still fight reasonable well in close as you can in the air or against long and medium ranges. Thier weak armor being made up for by mobility, faster turning speed, less chunky body parts etc)

Look he was the one that mentioned that I should not have included spartans in my assessment of the destroids being slower than valks. (Assumsing I'm ignorant that the spartans are the fastests of thier class) My point was only that: If you are in a destroid, forced to walk on the ground and can't follow me when I fly behind some mountains and pelt you to death with gunpod fire and use my flying abilty and speed to fly circles around you, then it stands to reason I have more options in how I fight. I don't care that the destroid are "dedicated ground fighters". Specialising in fighting up close doesn't change the fact that valks have more mobility the way the powered suit has more mobility and speed over the police use mecha in bubble gum crisis. If I can out fly you, and get to such a speed that you can't even get within range to shoot at me, while I can catch up to you easily then I have massive advantages. Tanks are not invincible just because they have more armor. Valks are not invincible because they have more speed. But that speed makes a huge difference because I means you can survive those hairy situations longer and get more done and cover great distances in short time. (by the time I have finished up and used up my ammo I can go back to reload and refuel and be back for more action) He tells me that a hammer is not used for cutting paper and tries to negate the advantage that there are machine that can do several tasks. As if a spartan, because it is specialised for close combat, then that automatically means a valk can't beat a spartan in close combat "since it is not dedicated" I countered with: we have a clock radio which has a clock and a radio in one. The clock in the clock-radio doesn't suddenly make the clock worse in telling the time that the dedicated clock does, right? Similar thing here: A valk can use its speed to fight up close the same way a sportscar can be used to avoidbeing crushed by a well-armored truck. The truck might be heavier, but it might also be less efficient in how it uses itself in a fight. It can haul a heavy load, but it is also bigger and easier to hit. But while in a truck, you don't feel like you have that freedom that a fast moving machine has because the weight hampers how fast you can kill targets spread out from point to point. When a valk transforms into a battroid it has increased armor. But it still manages to cover great distances (thanks to fighter mode) that can allow for faster responses to get there. Maybe this is why the better pilot might shed some armor because he knows he is too good to get hit and wants the speed to fight more offensively? (kill more things) It's part of fighting too to avoid your opponents blows! He looked at it from a oversimpolified viewpoint. Now if they had variable destroids these would be the equivalanet of the Clock-radio. (it can do the tasks the dedicated version could just as well, but it has the bonus of flight and speed, meaning it can get to from point A to point B easily and incorporate this ability into how it fights. Get your butt to the location, fight, then go to the next area. Time is a factor in a battle too. So I mention the ebb and flow of combat. You might be able to punch your opponent in the head, but while doing so, (with a heavy weapon) it might ALSO leave you open too while punching(so the opponent might recover quickly and punish with a counter that does even more damage than you did to him - this is why I mention the zentradi in a way that suggests they are the Goliath and we the humans as the "David" who have to have speed or some way of avoiding a blow. You can't fight a giant like you are a giant yourself) A good analogy to this is in the last fight in samurai champloo against the opponent who had no openings. (perfect defense) The hero needed to win the match by allowing himself to be open on purpose and taking a free hit, just to leave his opponent open (while he is attacking the opening the hero made for him on purpose) to do a blow on the opponent that would end in victory. The point is: while a person is striking they are leaving themselves open to attack at that moment in time when they are not blocking (reason being you can't block and strike at the same time, your arms can only be in one place at a time). A destroid is a bit like a boxer refusing to admit his armor will fail, and that his punches might be too slow for him to retract his arm back in time to block again. In macross there are no full barriers, (well for mecha that small) so you can only block in one direction. Sometimes it might be better to avoid the hit altogether and strike only at the moment when the opponent strikes and misses (when they can't block because they've left themselves open) Many instances of this when the Qrau launches the micromissiles for example. It is better to avoid the blow altogehter. (seek cover, or dodge. Not stand and eat the damage) If you are out in the open and face insurmountable odds, the chances of getting out alive increase if you can haul butt from the fight. But if you stand there and can't fly away, you are as good as dead. So yes running away can be important if you have less numbers. The feeling I got was that the aliens outnumbered the humans but had to hold back. I think he makes some good points, but I make some good ones too. Armor won't protect you forever! Because the enemy has bigger numbers they can fight more offensively and surround you. It's why the newer valks with shields and PPB and ability to fly would outclass a dedicated ground mecha any time. Because they are not limited to fighting just on the ground. The fact you have better armor just means it will take a little longer for my gunpod to slice through it, but the fact that you can't fly, means I can choose when and where to fight you. That is all I'm saying. I wasn't trying to say that tanks are not useful, but that for this particular world a valk can just do more things (thanks to variable modes) so it is a better investment. It can both sneak around to terrain that ground vehicles can't get to as well as transform and hide and use cover like an destroid would. The penalty for having less armor means you die from getting hit, but the speed leaves you less open to being hit. Anyway this all began when someone asked why use powered armor over valks. I was just mentioning that perhaps the aliens elite LIKE weapons they are more familiar with the same way some like to use manual vs auto transmission. The suit migh offer a comfort that the aliens don't feel when using human weapons because they spent so much of thier practice in a giant sized machine.

Well considering the subber says the releases won't be so long apart now, I think I can wait.

Not to mention that there was a gaping chunk cut right off the inside of the calf. The one thing that was good was how the top half of the chest locked into place that wasn't in the 1/72 19. Maybe what will happen is that they will stop at about the vf11 with FP, and choose not to do a yf19 with fast pack release. And then we got to wait 5 years again and then yamato does a yf19 in 1/48 scale? (each generation gets bigger and bigger )

Yeah I know, but still..over time they will accept the change I bet. ^ Starscream boxart from botchthecrab.com. See all that crap on the bottom of the leg? I think it would be impractical for a robot to actually move around with it there. Unlike the cartoon a toy can't have that stuff disapear. Personally a little change is not such a big deal for me since I am more "it has to be cool as a toy" person. Much cleaner to have hip armor on him imo. Like you I do hope they make stuff optional though. Would probably increase the value of the toy that way. But I still am just turned off by robots having too many bits sticking off thier body. more nostalgiac 80s boxart here: http://botchthecrab.com/archive/teletran.a...ticon&year=1984 again: too much crap at the feet. If the robot falls over it during a fight, it would snap that part off. Very awkward imo. Not all robots had bad messy robot modes with bits hanging off them though: ^ perfect. Clean humanoid shape, no need for stuff to disapear etc

quoted from that link: See I told ya. Looks like it won't be such an issue with the TF fans after all. Some changes might actually be worth it if people can get used to it over time. Like when the X-men got a costume change and updated look (no more mohawk for you storm), the hulk turned grey for a while, the ninja turtles shed thier stupid "archie" comic look from the ole 80s cartoon, batman getting slight mod from when an artist wants to put thier own spin on the character etc (not to mention batmobile changing) Nostalgia can sometimes get in the way of toy coolness.

Haven't had a chance to read through the thread yet (3am at time of writing) but I am looking forward to the Battle Angel Alita movie. What they really need is an epic sci-fi on the scale of an RPG like final fantasy or something. Massive cast, enough to fill a trilogy, huge fantasy worlds, lots of varying technology, moody atmosphere, moody lighting and feel for each world etc Those are kinda all the things I like about star wars. If you played final fantasy 6, (super nintendo game) there was a star warsy feel to that game. So in some epic sci-fi if the characters go to a new planet: customs, politics, religion, laws, dress, climate, calendar etc are all unique. There has to be a hint that the world itself the movie is based on really exists outside the confines of the movie. You have to be able to want a person to be curious about the stuff inside that world from what they see, to care. For me SW = WWII atmosphere with dirty beat up vehicles in space, land, air, in snowy, sandy, swampy, foresty environments etc. (like a james bond movie the location has to be exotic and give you the "I wish I was standing there and being there" feel that OT star wars gave me. (space by itself can be interesting but I want planets and unique looking cities and stuff on the star wars scale) After lord of the rings and PT star wars, there really needs to be a fantasy or sci fi movie that is epic enough in scope and depth to get me excited and fill in the gap. I think there are just way too many superhero movies.

feminism = communism (I said it before in another thread that I think it's a population control tactic imo to get force both sides to work while family life suffers, and bonds between parents are seperated and discouraged from having familes at all, resulting in slow moral decay over long period of time as the children are indoctrinated with politcal ideas that ordinarily would be challenged by the patriachal figure of the household. Seperation of both parents makes the indoctrination and brainwashing of the children much easier) The next generation of fatherless kids are going to be so messed up. We are going to end up like the protoculture's soldiers. The zentradi (men) will have thier own planet in the future and the meltran women giants will have thier own matriacal figure which they worship and given thier own planet, and then after a time there will be wars between the two sexes and everyone will start cloning instead of marrying and having children. (which robots will raise on a different planet because the parents are way too busy with work - both need to to pay the bills and want "freedom" or so they were tricked into believing) Really sad. Can't wait for the birdhumans to come and sort this poo out. DYRL = message to all the feminists when you don't have sex with men and choose to live bitter cranky life trying to be and replace them, and forgetting what love is for. (support life, survival, carry on the future etc) Society will crumble because you need some kind of loyalty and morals to hold it all together or there is no incentive for people to commit. Yeah but isn't it all just comic books (manga) in the end? There is always going to be some special interest group out there whining about something about a certain character type not being treated in a favourable way. (and then some new law is made especially for that group to get better treatment than the rest of us who have to abide by seperate laws altogether, creating a massive imbalance) I hate it when politically correct things start to get into any medium especially if it is not fairly challenged in the story and is just there to piss me off. ie women kicks a man's butt in lord of the rings movie and says something like: It's not a man that beat you, but a woman" hahahah verrrrry funny.. Destroys the atmosphere imo. At least they don't really do this in anime. When milia kicks butt in DYRL, she doesn't highlight how she is a woman and poo, (even though the majority of the aliens are male she is killing ) we just go along with the idea that the character is tough, and do not have the PC idea thrown down us like that.

Good. Wonder why it takes so long?

The stubbiness of the nose might work to make the battroid look a little less pointy in the chest. (so I think robot mode people will benefit here) I hope they do make the shoulders posable though so the robot mode can have the shoulders look more like the lineart. I agree they should at least meet as high as the canopy in fighter mode. And the idea of using ball joints for the arms and the shoulder armor as shoulder pads sounds like a good idea along with the inclusion of the usual posability in the shoulder already in the 1/72. (I like how they did this for the banpresto valks vf1 actually with independant arm movement underneath the shoulder pad) Hopefully the gunpod ain't too big so to a point where the wrist can barely support it. I wonder if they will include extra clips underneath the shield? So you can have the robot reload the gunpod? That is the first thing I thought when I saw that deformed pic. I actually do not mind a skinny battroid though because to me a valk should be skinny and not too chunky if the plane isn't that way to begin with. Although fat hands look good, and chunky arms and legs match what is drawn, that is not how I would personally envision what the "real" thing would be if it had to transform in 3d. It is sort of the reason I can totally accept the majorly beefed up 1/48 GBP armor vs the anime GBP armor with tiny chest. The way I like to think of it is that when these skinny valks wear the armour, they compensate for the lack of meat when they upgrade to become these heavier robots at times when fighter mode is not important - which is why everyone loves the bigger hands on gbp and normal sized hands when not wearing GBP) At the end of the day there is going to be one complaint about being too skinny in one mode, and too chunky for another mode. It's really a tug of war over whose mode is more important. For me i can live with a robot that is skinny but with good articulation. (double joint in the elbow, knees like the recent vf0, shoulder pads like the ball-jointed banpresto etc)