Pat Payne

Egan Loo put out an article in Animerica a few months back (I've got the issue, and I'll dig it out later on today for a cite -- I'm getting ready for work, so I can't dig around in my magazine collection just yet) which spells out in excruciating detail how the story was worked out. The gist of it was that IIRC, barring polishing and the last nine episodes, much of the story and plot itself was actually pretty much fully formed by the time Tatsunoko got into the picture (Tat, AWAK, was a last-minute entry after the original funder, Wiz, went under, and BW [who took over (don't you get the feeling I love parentheses? )] couldn't pull together enough funding by itself). Loo actually answers that question about how we went from "Palace Robo Dockingham" ( ) to "Super Dreadnaught Megaroad" to "Super Dimension Fortress Macross." Second, I wouldn't put much stock in the differences between SDF:M and DYRL meaning that the original show's concept changed in pre-production. That's kind of like saying that since "Patlabor" was a cop comedy, but Patlabor: WXIII was barely a "Patlabor" film at all, that Headgear must have radically changed the story before the first OAV was released. Sorry, that just seems too much like cart-before-the-horse thinking. The differences between SDF: M and DYRL probably have much more to do with the medium. Instead of 13 hours of television, Kawamori et. al had 2 1/2 hours of film, with a respectable budget. They had a few choices there. they could have gone the Yamato/Gundam route and spliced episodes of the TV series into a movie (and lose a lot in the translation). They could have gone the Star Trek route and done new adventures of Hikaru, Misa, et. al, but we all know the Hoary Froating Head's position on that... Instead, they did a retelling of the story with changes in the plot to allow for compression of a 13-hour show into 2 1/2 hours. The differences between SDF: M and DYRL, therefore, signify nothing but the creator's desire to do something different with the story after the fact.

I've read the lyrics and it's not a sad song at all. It's actually about the redemptive power of love (and unlike most of that ilk, the translated lyrics don't descend into that ultra-smarmy, mushy Michael Bolton crap )

Credit where it's due, pal. If it weren't for them, there would be no Robotech. Just to satisfy my curiosity, Pat, who would you have credited? The reason I ask is that there were some credits for the original animation in the series. I actually asked this on the old thread, and I don't think anyone ever gave me an answer. This is from the RT episode "Blue Wind", episode 13: Original animation produced by Tatsunoko Productions [with TP's full formal name] Producer Kenji Yoshida Director Ippei Kuri Is this information accurate? Is it misleading? I ask from the standpoint of the original Macross eps. I don't own them (hopefully "yet", they're expensive), so I don't know how the credits even went on the original eps. But, from the standpoint of "credit where credit is due" I think that including the original director and producer (while maybe not "enough") was fair and didn't completely hide where RT came from. Could they have included BW and SN as "character designers"? Sure. But, they also didn't list Anime Fiend as the animators in any of the eps, AFAIK. Sorry I didn't get back until now, but I've been busy at work. I would have credited Shoji Kawamori, Haruhiko Mikimoto, Kazutake Miyatake, Kenichi Matsutake, Noburo Ishiguro, and the other people who wrote, animated, directed and otherwise created the episodes. I would have done exactly what they did with Star Blazers -- credit fully the staff from both sides of the Pacific who were responsible for the shows. And you're right there were, but those were just the Tatsunoko producers, not the scriptwriters, mecha designers, character designer, series director. Nope. Either those credits are conspicuously missing, or they're names of the re-writers (actually should be ADR writers) who deserve credit as well, but not for the actual writing of the episodes' plotlines.

Credit where it's due, pal. If it weren't for them, there would be no Robotech.

I thought we all went to the same rehearsal, Tom: It's: Angry mob: Burn the heretic! Burh him! Heretic: But how do you know I'm a heretic? AM: Well, he's dressed as one! My copy got burned (overzealous rehearsing), but I'm sure a duck is involved somewhere Seriously, As a design, it ain't half bad, but it's still an AnimeFriend mistake. That's like immortalizing the infamous "switched armbands" continuity error at the end of Star Trek: TMP in an action figure.

Here's a few: 1) Humans are either rock-jawed good guys who have evolved beyond hatred, war, money, etc. Or they're space conquistadores out to do the bidding of an intergalactic corporation in destroying the universe in the same manner the corporation destroyed the Earth. 2) Technology is either working miracles in SF, or it's totally worthless. Are there no Honda Civics in space? 3) THEY CAN ALL SPEAK ENGLISH! Even undiscovered alien pigmy slugs can speak English in at least space opera SF. 4) Vikings are always the bad guy--I'm sorry, that's a cliche of historical fiction.

Somewhere, out there, there's a subtitled version of DYRL that has minor edits: the zero-gee love scene is slightly edited to get rid of Minmay's nude shot--the editor extended the shot of the showerhead to cover the nude yet keep the timing of the song correct. Also, three decapitations are cut -- The Zentradi being killed by Millia, a UN spacy soldier in the final battle, and the long shot of Hikaru blasting away at Bodolzaa is slowed down to get rid of the closeup of the bullets ripping into Bodolzaa's head. I've seen it mostly because in my misspent youth, that was the only full-length movie I had ever downloaded of the Internet. Superspace Fortress Macross is NOT edited, although the translations are real iffy. The Kiseki translation is even worse. (Scene on Earth, where Hikaru and Misa are talking about Hikaru's parents) Regular: Hikaru: He was doing an aerobatic manuver, and he went "zoom, crash!" just like that. Kiseki: Hikaru: Wow, you change subjects just like an acrobat!

A lot of groups have done this at one time or another. Believe it or not, people can see an unknown quantity and see potential (good or ill) in it. Take a look at Star Trek. NBC could just have well said: "aw, nobody's gonna watch that space crap. Roddenberry, send us a western!" after the first pilot. The Strand Magazine could have rejected the works of an unknown writer, Arthur Conan-Doyle and his fictional detective, Sherlock Holmes, if not for an editor who saw promise. And HG didn't even take that leap. They saw that Macross was a minor phenomenom in Japan, and thought that the success could be replicated in the US. Now I'm not saying that opprobrium should be heaped upon HG for scouting Japanese anime and finding one that they thought would sell, but neither should they be praised as a group of otaku Nostradami for doing what they're being paid for. Nope, it was that back then, the US market was a small sideline. Anime was the province of a closed system of fans (the successes of Astro Boy (Tetsuwan Atom), Speed Racer (Mach Go Go Go) and Star Blazers (Uchuu Senkan Yamato) notwithstanding) and so the Japanese paid it no never mind. The actual launching of anime as a full-blown thread in the US's own cultural fabric didn't really begin until the '90s. In short, BW shoulda known, granted. However, neither did they or any other Japanese anime licensor see any promise in the market. I have to say, that makes one of us. This may sound presumptious, but what HG (and quote a few other anime inporters of the time) did was kind of like taking Homer's Oddessey and saying: "Let's try to improve it by intercutting it with Beowulf and the Tale of the Heike and then take all the credit." My main beef against HG is twofold: 1) They gave no credit to any of the original writers, directors, etc., without whom there would be no Macross--let alone Robotech. This doesn't extend, if the judgement about copyrights is correct, to BW. 2) They needlessly shoehorned Macross into a newly-written storyline that held only passing similarity to the original show. It would have been far better if, as they say, they needed the 65 eps for syndication, to make it an anthology of three shows under the Robotech label that had no connection to one another. Personally, I don't "hate" HG. In fact, I am glad that they did allow Animeigo to release SDF:M with their full cooperation and minimal editorial interference. I am concerned with thir business practices and their aggrandizing of derivatives that may not belong to them based solely on their (increasingly verified) ownership of the license to SDF: Macross. I am concerned that they are trying to block the other Macross programs from coming here because they insist that they own them. And outside of SDF:M, they have no "investment." They didn't pour cent one into Macross: DYRL, Macross Flashback 2102, Macross Plus, Macross 7, Macross 7 Trash, Macross 7 Dynamite, or Macross Zero. Other than DYRL (in which they did have a small amount of input), Tatsunoko had nothing to do with any other Macross sequel. Tatsunoko has no "investment" outside of SDF:M. We can tell them that all we like, but there are people who won't believe it unless Carl Macek himself were to come clean and actually use the name "Shoji Kawamori" in a sentence. I refuse to dignify this with a comment. Try dealing with some of the flamers who come here from RT.com (Wrylac heartily excluded--he's actually here to debate ) on a semi-regular basis with poor Internet skills and a fervent belief that if HG loses, RT will disappear forever. Then see how charitable you are.

Also, it coulda always been vertically aligned rather than horizontally aligned (in space, there is no "up" or "down," remember? ) or the city may have been on rotating plates so that they were always aligned "up" in relation to the ship's position.

What makes you think she's not Vostok 7 Well, we won't know for sure for another six years...

LoL u never really know until u try Why is American beer like making love in a canoe....?

I think it will be. I saw the sign and with my linmited command of Japanese could make out the phrase "3-mode transformation." Methinks it'll be a 1J with the armor packed inside. But didn't someone say that it was impossible to do a Armored Valk in 1/60 because of the way the 1/60 Valk was designed? And are they ready to dine on some crow? :P :P :P

That's why they're hoping the Transformers NAME will help them sell the Armada game they're releasing later this year. Personally, from the screencaps that I've seen it doesn't look too promising. @#$% Armada! If they don't turn into a semi-tractor and Walther P-38, they ain't Optimus Prime and Megatron! I'd give my left garbanzo for them to bring that out here, and I'm sure there are legions of other kids of the '80s who'd agree, and think -- no massive licsning battle royale preventing it like with Macross. What Takara is thinking, IMHO -- if this is true -- is that "it's time to abandon the old fans in the US. Those Americans think of Transformers as kids' stuff, and the kids are eating Armada up with a spoon."

Well, my only fear is that the rumors that Lucas shot new footage of Bail Organa and others on Alderaan just before the Death Star blows 'em all to kingdom come are true, and that the footage would show up in any new SE of Star Wars. Other than that, I can live with almost anyting else in the SE (although Greedo shooting first torks me off, both because the angle for the "shot" looks all wrong, and because it's supposed to establish Han Solo as a mean mutha--shut yo mouth...) As for internet petitions, don't bother. to them, if you don't care enough to use actual paper (and having them print it off doesn't count ) they aren't gonna waste their time.

I can't stand those people. They have given Christianity a bad name in this country, because people look at the Jack Chicks and Pat Robertsons of the world and think that even the local monsignor is like that. And then, then they have the temerity to say that the country is turning against Christianity because of 1) devil worship 2) other, "false" religions 3) Pokemon/Harry Potter/D&D when if they'd look in a mirror and realize that they're the face of Christianity today (by dint of being the only ones talking), they'd realize that it's them not the religion or the grand majority of people in it, who are ther problem.

I'd actually say Space War One ended with Kamujin's death. IMHO, Kamujin and his men were the last remaining organized Zentradi resistance that staged open battles with the UN Spacy under the banner of the old Zentradi. (The later rebels were acting out aggression that had been programmed into them over the millennia, but were not actively trying to revive the Zentradi presence as Kamujin seemed to be doing.) But usually, it's tough to decide when a war actually ends. Look at WW2 in Europe: There are at least nine points that could lay a claim to being the end of WW2: 1) German surrender of Berlin May 7, 1945 2) German surrender of most forces, May 8, 1945 (VE Day) 3) Total German surrender of entire armed forces, May 12 (or thereabouts) 1945 4) Dissolution of Nazi government at Flensburg, late May, 1945 5) Beginning of occupation, May/June 1945 6) Supression of "Werewolf" guerillas, June/August 1945 7) Foundation of independent German states (BDR and DDR), 1949 Unification of Germany, 1989 9) Official signing of peace treaty between Germany and Allies, 1990 Any of these events could be, more or less, the end of WW2 in Europe, each with their own defenders and detractors. The same with Space War One. We don't see a signing of a peace treaty between the Zentradi and the UN Spacy (a treaty, BTW is the official, legal end to a war, so WW2 officially ended in 1990 for those placing bets ), although it's alluded to in Macross 2. So here are at least a few choices: 1) Bodolzaa's death. 2) Scattering of Zentradi forces that came moments later 3) Surrender of Remaining Zentradi forces not loyal to Britai 4) Peace treaty with Zentradi (apocryphal) 5) Kamujin's suicide run ending last vestige of original Zentradi military resistance 6) Britai accepts C-in-C post as head of UN Spacy.

Maybe he was an unpaid consultant for the movie?

And that idiot Jack Chick rears his beady little head again...I know that some people just laugh at his tracts -- I get physically sick trying to read his bigoted (my family's Catholic -- he has Catholics on his long list of people going to Hell), manipulative and intolerant ravings. As for "Mazes and Monsters," That's just another example of the long, long, incredibly looooong term of dues-paying Tom Hanks had to go through until he was ready for his recent leading-man turns in movies like "Saving Private Ryan." I'm not in any hurry to rush out and watch this one. BTW: I used to play D&D (and am looking to get into a group again), but never sold my soul to the Devil. Naw, got more money by selling it to the Traveller's Group (sorry about the very obscure MST3K reference there )

Guys, I'm putting this in the "coincidence" column unless there's some proof that the HFH or whoever named the character was influenced by Harry Potter rather than "Gee, doesn't Emma Granger sound like a cool name?"

It's a misquote. The actual saying is "The proof of the pudding is in the tasting." In other words, something's worth can only be told through actual experience. I'd always heard it as: "The Proof of the Pudding's in the Crust." Anyhoo, I doubt that TP is going to seek damages now, unless they try to push the issue. The case ain't over, as all the rulings talk about right now is the TV series itself, which is -- all together now -- BW/SN gets designs and author's rights, TP gets rights to footage and international distro of same. Nobody's gone into who has what right to make what derivative. And everyone who says otherwise right now on this thread is really going out on a limb.

YDNRC, 1stBRD. All I've heard said that the music rights were never in dispute. they've always been held by Victor Music Industries, in the same way that Warner Tamerlane owns the rights to all the music from Star Wars (a 20th Century Fox film, of course). Now, the question is, though, does BW/Tatsunoko/whoever have an unlimited right to the music in the context of the TV show (most likely), and if so, by whom does that perpetual music license reside with?

Best ending for a TV series? The final episode of M*A*S*H, "Goodbye, Farewell, and Amen." A two-hour long extravaganza (it was the price CBS paid to keep the show on for one more year), it was sentimental without being manipulative, it tied up almost all of the loose ends from the series, and left people with a sense of closure. The last bit is still one of the best sendoffs on TV. It begins with Hawkeye and BJ talking as they're about to leave Uijongbu, and Hawkeye talks about how when "Trapper" John McIntyre left the 4077th Hawk had no chance to see him off properly (Wayne Rogers left the show in 1975 out of fear of typecasting, and the next season opened with Hawk coming off of R&R to learn that Trapper had left for Seoul to go back to the US). He had become as close friends with BJ as he had with Trapper, and wants to say goodbye to BJ. BJ, zooming off the compound on a captured Chinese motorcycle, tells Hawk that he left him a note. As Hawkeye flies off in one of the unit's choppers, he sees the note BJ left: The white stones that marked the choppers' landing rings have been rearranged to say "Goodbye." End of show, end of series. Another good one is Seinfeld: You can't get more in tune with the series' spirit than a ending that's a non-ending. After a trial that brings out everyone Jerry and co. had inconvinienced or pranked during the series run, the foursome get thrown into the clink, where it's business as usual, just in a different locale. Edit in: Dammit, Blaine, ya beat me to it! :P :P

Maybe, but sadly, not in this universe, especially when Robert Woodhead had to break the news that we may never see a legitimate US release of Macross: DYRL because the licensing situation is so dramatically ****ed up that they can't even pay everybody for permission, because someone wants the entire pie. It's this same kind of "who has the rights?" bullshit that sank any attempt to make new Bubblegum Crisis anime based on the 2032 storyline and designs -- Artmic, AIC and Youmex couldn't play nice in the sandbox. It's the same kind of BS that scared off most US lisencers from picking up Lupin III for the longest time without changing his name. This same BS cost the Beatles the rights to their own songs -- and thanks to them not "Com(ing) Together," now Whacko Jhacko owns them, not Sir Paul MacCartney. We have as much chance of seeing HG and BW co-exist peacefully as we did NATO and the Warsaw Pact -- it was only the threat of MAD that kept both sides from tearing each other apart, and I fear MAD is at work again. Sorry about the rant on your statement, Roy, but I had to blow off some steam. In the end, this is all going to be, as The Butcher's Boy of Stratford said: "A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Well, they can try, but if the mess gets cleared up to a court's satisfaction in BW's favor, if they keep pushing it, a court may put an injunction on them doing it. But's that's stiull iffy and WAY, WAY out in the future.

Not quite. Studio Nue owns partial rights to Macross as the studio which did the grunt work of creating the show, and which hired the original creator, character designer (briefly), mecha designers and writers. However most of the intellectual property rights are held jointly by BW (who ultimately paid all the bills jointly woith Tatsunoko) and Studio Nue. That would be the gist of the argument. The underlying designs reside with Studio Nue/Big West. There is wiggle room for Tat and HG to argue for merchandising rights ONLY to designs that actually appeared in SDFM TV. DYRL, M+, M7, M0 designs may be substantially different enough to be considered new designs, but if it appeared in any of the other programs IN THE EXACT FORM THAT IT APPEARED IN THE ORIGINAL TV SERIES they could raise a stink, although it would probably get them nowhere.