Mr March

*cheers on Zinknowshisstuff* Some seem to be speaking a little too generally here, so I'm not sure where the criticism is being directed. But I doubt most of us are questioning the designer himself when looking at the valkyrie, only explaining how we see it from our own perspective. Even if Shoji Kawamori said to me the VF-25 is more an homage to an F-14 than an Su-27, I'd demand he convince me. I still see more of a SV-51 meets VF-19 in the new Messiah valkyrie, but I'd be interested to know exactly what it is from the VF-1 that Kawamori recognizes in his newest VF-25 design. That's all I'm saying.

I agree. That has always been the problem when fighting against the valkyries and why big-blast guns never work in variable fighter combat. Against vehicles as fast and agile as a variable fighter, these big-blast guns aren't going to be much use against a Valkyrie that can simply dodge such fire easily. Best to go for speed and penetration, hence high rate of fire/high velocity gun pods, lasers, missiles and beam guns are the weapons of choice.

The way I look at it, if I were an animator why would I include the bandana? After that, the answer becomes clear

Comedy gold That's not really what I meant

I totally understand the rules, but it's a shame us older fans don't have a place. Maybe that's something next on the list for those brave souls willing to make more Macross fan sites. Hint, hint, nudge nudge

Miss Ataria Phantom of the OTEC

Macross has always been variant-happy, they just stuck to one or two designs rather than dozens and used color schemes or add-ons. The original SDF Macross had the four main Valkyrie variants (A, D, J and S) which then had the Super and Armored variants and with DYRL, the Strike and ELINT. IMO, if Macross Frontier should be accused of anything it's being too self-referential with regards to the VF-25.

Great pictures! This is the best set of photos yet. The new 1/60 looks amazing.

Just my opinion, but given how close the VF-25 and VF-27 are in virtually all the major design elements, that's very little distinction.

The majority of Kawamori's designs include all those design elements (aside from the color) and most of those specific elements are taken from the SV-51 and the VF-19, not the VF-1. I just don't see the connection. To me the VF-1 has always appeared as a Tomcat style aircraft; in contrast, the VF-25, at least to me, looks like a Flanker style aircraft. To my mind, if variable fighter technology was given to the real militaries of today, the US would produce something that looked like the VF-5000 or the YF-21 while Russia would produce something like the SV-51 or the VF-25. You know, it just hit me; I think the reason why Kawamori and some fans believe the VF-25 is an interpretation of the VF-1 is the lack of stealth styling and the prominent in-anime swing wing (the obvious Hikaru color scheme aside). Most of the post-FB2012 Kawamori Valkyries use stealth considerations; the shaped bodies, the wings, the tapered nose cones, etc. The VF-25 is the first Macross main fighter in a long time that abandons stealth considerations, so fans and Kawamori look to the last variable fighter built as such; the VF-1. That makes perfect sense.

JB0 I think it's special nuclear material, but I can't remember for sure. I'm not sure how "recent" the description of the reaction technology is, but it's been part of the Macross Compendim for nearly a decade now. Yeah, the Japanese aversion to nuclear weapons is interesting, but absolutely understandable. The Reaction technology has too many wild cards for me to understand it correctly. I'm not even sure why the bothered to define the process as thermonuclear, except for the obvious reason that terms like thermonuclear are understood to the general public. No one really knows what a photon torpedo is, but all audiences understands nuclear weapons. Regardless, both fusion and anti-matter power generation cannot be defined as "extreme efficiency", at least not as far as I understand it. They are high energy and efficient compared to our current tech, but they all have their own numerous inefficiencies. But I'm kinda out of my element here.

If I had to guess, the bandana is just part of the character design; the artists include it even while Klan is inside the micloning chamber as a visual cue for the audience (for easy recognition).

I agree. In fact, lately it appears Shoji Kawamori has been inspired by unconventional and some retro design. Chronologically, his 1990's era valkyries (VF-3000, VF-11, VF-17, YF-19, YF-21) were influenced heavily by modern stealth considerations like the F-22 Raptor, YF-23 Blackwidow II, F-117 Nighthawk and so forth. Kawamori's later 2000's era valkyries (VF-0, SV-51, VF-171, VF-25, VF-27) have all been a melange of new and retro, taking design elements from modern stealth design (especially the wings) and 1970's and 1980's era eastern European fighter craft. I can see elements of the MIG-29, Su-27 and Su-33 right up to new variants like the Su-37. The VF-27 in particular seems to remind me a lot of the Flanker F. And then of course there are the self-referential elements, like parts of the SV-51 in the VF-27 like the rear engines/lower legs and the nozzles/feet. The VF-25 is also supposed to be reminiscent of the VF-1 fighter, though I have to admit I've never seen much of the old VF-1 in the new Messiah design.

JBO Yeah, you're right about that. But the description is taken directly from the Macross Compendium so it's accurate. When describing the reaction technology, the writers should have spoken in more general terms of elements. BUT if you read the Macross Compendium description I quoted very closely and take it literally as is, it doesn't imply real fusion technology uses SNMs, but that this type of fictional OverTechnology pair-annihilation is NOT LIMITED to the use of SNMs (thus implying the technology's superiority over our current nuclear tech, which needs to use nuclear material). AT THE SAME TIME, the description also seems to imply that pair-annihilation CAN use SNMs as a reactant. Hence, it appears that pair-annihilation can use almost anything as fuel - SNMs or common elements alike - and still achieve extremely high efficiency reactions. Does that make sense? Of course, the super dimension spatial theory is a scientific cheat much like fold space. In reality, we have no clue how to create a perpetual high energy containment system for a fusion reactor that doesn't require more energy input than the output of the fusion process itself. So Kawamori and Co. invented a way around it

I don't think there's been a pre-existing scenario that was quite the same as the VF-25/VF-27 comparison. The VF-0 Phoenix and the SV-51, while different in design, seem built to fulfill the same Fighter role and can be equipped with similar optional hardware. The YF-19 and the YF-21 were both built for the same role, but were both unconventional and featured all kinds of then-new fringe technologies. Those two valkyries were also prototype vehicles, not production fighters. The VF-11 Thunderbolt and the VF-17 Nightmare is a closer comparison, but again the VF-17 is definitely a later generation craft made after the VF-11 Thunderbolt had already been in active service for many years. The VF-25 Messiah and VF-27 are both brand new valkyries featuring a common design but in my opinion they appear built for different roles.

Ahh, good catch. Now that there's full views of all three modes available, I should just delete that magazine scan. I think picture itself is probably line art that's been colored. It doesn't look like the CGI model.

Much larger. Island 1 on the Macros Frontier is 15km long. City 7 on the Macross 7 was 6km long.

The differences between the VF-25 Messiah and the VF-27 seem to be operational, not necessarily performance. I've no doubt there will be differences in the numbers for weight and thrust if we ever see official statistics, but I doubt the VF-27 is necessarily superior; I believe it's just more specialized. For example, with four engines, the big beam gun and internal fold system, the VF-27 appears to be the Macross equivalent of a Strike Fighter. It is designed to deliver heavy ordnance against hardened targets and even warships, but it remains a capable variable fighter. The VF-25 Messiah is a straight Fighter craft, but ANY VF-25 can be equipped for numerous operational roles using specialized equipment like Super Parts, Full Armor or ELINT packages which the VF-27 cannot use (unless another set of specialized equipment was built to suit its frame). The VF-27, like the VF-25, might also represent the new boundary of what's possible in variable fighter technology. The VF-25 Messiah introduced a "transformable full armor system" which is a first. The VF-27 seems to feature an internal fold system, a fighter-scale heavy converging energy beam cannon and a fully holographic or cyberspace cockpit interface, also firsts. I see the two Valkyries as roughly on the same developmental curve, but the VF-27 is more specialized and arguably more experimental.

Taken from the Macross Compendium: Regarding Energy Converting Armor, here's my entry from my website, the Macross Mecha Manual:

Actually, once it was revealed the Sharon was really Myung, things could have turned out quite well. Myung seemed to have found her voice again, so she could have continued her singing career. Perhaps even under the name Sharon Apple, like a take back. "This is a song Charles Manson stole from The Beatles; we're stealing it back"

I can't confirm if it's the same in the Japanese release, but on the JVC release of the Macross Plus Soundtrack I it's a 9:03 minute song of two combined tracks named "After in the Dark - Torch song". As for characters enjoying music from previous eras, it's not that hard to believe from a production perspective. It gives something for existing Macross fans to appreciate, it enhances the depth of the fictional world in which Macross is set and the owners might as well use the music since it's there to be used. In universe, it's definitely possible people listen to Minmay, Sharon Apple and Fire Bomber. According to Macross fiction, they were the big names of the music industry in their respective eras, so it's not unreasonable to expect they endure. I listen to plenty of popular music from singers and musicians who've been dead long before I was even born The Macross Plus soundtrack was used numerous times in Macross 7. If you watch all of Macross 7 you'll hear several tracks throughout the show. Again, this was likely a case of using the music because it was available, with no more meaning than that.

LOL That's so bizarre

Nope, the Super configurations also have dorsal fuselage/top torso missile launchers. You can see a pair of yellow launchers clearly in this picture: http://www.new-un-spacy.com/miscellaneous/...-vf-25super.png In battroid mode, the launchers sit on top of the torso, somewhat to the rear. On a human, they'd be resting on your trapezius, the muscle between your neck and shoulder.

EDIT: Yep, looks like you're right. There's a very brief shot of a massive red spray inside the reaction detonation accompanied by a squirting sound. Easy to miss. I've made the correction and uploaded a new description. Thanks d3v! Hmmm, you may be right. I'll give episode four a quick review. Back in a bit

Taken from the Macross Mecha Manual