Mr March

Allow me...

Was it ever stated explicitly that the Ghost X-9 used "lasers", or did it use "beam guns"?

Just to note, there is technically no way to "conclusively" determine the reason for the VF-4's greater weight over that of the VF-1. We'd need Shoji Kawamori or the Macross creative teams to officially publish trivia agreeing with that theory in order for it be true. All we fans can do is speculate on what is the "most likely" reason for that weight increase, once we've considered all the trivia facts that are known about the VF-4. I'm going with beam weapons as the "most likely" reason the VF-4 is heavier, but that's just my own personal theory. azrael WHOA! That's some important information about the VF-4/VF-5000/VF-11. I've written revisions to the VF-4, VF-5000 and VF-11 profiles (and the FAQ) and uploaded them. Thanks for sharing that trivia.

wolfx You're welcome. I thought it important most people know specifically what the Chronicle is and what it isn't. Still, it might be important to keep track of this series. While there's not a lot of line art for stuff like the VF-1J and VF-19 Custom in this first issue, the later issues that focus on Macross Zero and Macross Frontier will be worth buying due to the lack of published materials. Nexx Stalker Okay, the first book in some 20 years (or some very long time), ya nitpicker

Again, I think people are a bit spoiled by the planet busters depicted in sci-fi, always thinking Death Star or some such visually impressive big gun. There are actually many really low-tech ways to effectively destroy a planet without requiring that one blast it to dust in one big, half-second pop. Mass drivers are one such example. If one must go exotic for planet busters, I always thought the M.D. Device from Ender's Game was a novel way of destroying a planet that didn't require some unbelievably powerful power source. It simply broke down molecules and the more mass there was the more the effect propagated, basically using mass as fuel for the disruption effect. Quite a clever way to get around the ordinarily enormous amounts of energy it would take to pop a planet

Well that's certainly encouraging The Vajra ships likely feel familiar because of the bow-firing main guns and the split hull, much in the same way that as cool as the Macross Quarter may be, it's also familiar with the hull-splitting main gun similar to the original SDF-1 Macross. For my part, I've few complaints about the ship design thus far in Macross Frontier. I like the Macross Frontier fleet designs, the Vajra and the Macross Galaxy designs. The only Macross warship designs I really disliked were most of the Varauta ships in Macross 7, but the UNS ships were all cool. I tell you one thing I really like about the CGI warships in Macross Frontier; when the bow splits open on most of the ships there's a real sense of mass/weight to the gun that never came across in the older animated shows, with the possible exception of DYRL. The Vajra cannons feel really menacing when they open up.

eugimon Good, that means the point got through Regarding the VF-4 weight, believe me, I’ve considered it. But additional engine weight doesn’t track, at least IMO. The Macross valkyries follow real world aircraft specifications much like the Gundams follow real world tank specifications. Turbofans weigh around 2-4 tons each, so that’d be an extra 4-8 tons of weight. Even if Valkyrie engines are half or one-third the weight of real world engines, the math still doesn’t work (at 13.95 tons, the VF-4 is only 700 kilograms heavier than the VF-1 at 13.25 tons). We also know that the VF-4 is 35% VF-1 parts, meaning weight ratios for the VF-1 and VF-4 would be similar more often than not. Most likely, the two upper VF-4 engines are Battroid mode thrusters, similar to the VF-1 Battroid tri-thruster “backpack” (an assumption that agrees with the placement of those two thrusters, found on the “back” of the VF-4 Battroid). Now, I agree it’s possible all valkyrie engines might weigh under one-third of a ton, but I think it’s more likely the upper two engines on the VF-4 serve the same function as the VF-1 backpack thrusters. I also find it unlikely that valkyrie main engines weigh as much as the average refrigerator. I think Kawamori probably had real turbofans in mind when he wrote statistics for the VF-1 Valkyrie. So I figured the more likely component on the VF-4 that would account for the weight is the beam cannons, all other factors being equal (excluding the lack of heads lasers, of course). Final Vegeta Shinsen subs.

I didn't make it up; it's a translation. Whether or not it's accurate, I don't know. I'm at the mercy of the subtitles like most everyone else.

Any time you want to part with the Macross Plus Remastered DVD booklet, let me know, cause I'm very interested

In Macross, the creators always distinguish between "Laser Cannon" and "Beam Gun", so when I say "Beam Weapon" I'm talking strickly about non-Laser directed-energy weapons. The most popular type of "beam weapon" in Macross seems to be the converging energy beam gun. Sulendil Ang I suppose the VF-4 Lightining III isn't the best example since it is a variable fighter without head cannons Still, this is good discussion. It helps me collect my thoughts about the Macross fiction. ChronoReverse Make sure to read my note above. I agree with your point 100%. I do beleive the Valkyries utilize the the ballistic/energy/missile armament simply because it's incredibly versatile. While each weapon can be equally lethal to the majority of targets, it's likely each weapon is designed for use in an environment/situation where it is more advantageous than the other weapons.

I've often thought about that and my own personal theory why big beam weapons were not embraced was due to prohibitive weight. The VF-4 Lightning III is a beast at some 13.95 tons, the heaviest main variable fighter ever (afaik). I think it's likely they abandoned large beam weapons because they were too heavy. The variable fighter that ended up replacing the VF-4 Lightning III was the VF-5000 Star Mirage, a very light weight fighter by comparison (8.3 tons) and without beam weapons. After the VF-5000 Star Mirage, the designers stayed with light weight variable craft and the VF-11 Thunderbolt was built weighing only 9.0 tons, again without beam weapons. The YF-19/VF-19 Excalibur and YF-21/VF-22 Sturmvogel II lines also followed suit weighing 8.75 tons and 9.55 tons, respectively (it's also important to note that the YF-21/VF-22 uses larger beam cannons in the arms). The VF-17 Nightmare is the one exception to light weight fighters, weighing 11.85 tons and it's considered a "heavy" battroid/fighter.

I though it was an unspoken rule that when we're discussing directed-energy weapons versus fiction, we're discussing practical, field usable weapons like those in Macross, not the impractical versions we have today. Yes, we have lasers and particle beams today, but they can't work like those of a Valkyrie. Again, this is not to say they don't have any disadvantages AT ALL, only that fictional laser/beam weapons of Macross are just advanced enough to attain practicality over current technology. Also, if real life concerns aren't an issue analyzing "fictional" Macross laser/beam weapons, why are some holding Macross ballistics to a different standard? If laser/beam weapons are held to a standard, so must ballistics and more importantly, ballistics must be afforded equal suspension of disbelief. There is no analytical standard that applies to one weapon type without applying to the other. Like I said, if ballistic weapons are still viable in Macross (which they are, based on continued use), it's obviously because laser/beam weapons are NOT superior in every performance benchmark. That should go without saying. Perhaps some magical, Star Trek/Star Wars-like energy weapons are superior in every way to ballistic weapons (that would explain why they don't use ballistics). But this is Macross, where laser/beam weapons obviously don't enjoy such deus ex machina. In Macross, analysis begins from the point at which ballistics and energy weapons are equally practical weapons. Same thing with Fold drives or transforming valkyries. We work from the assumption that these technologies exist, are viable and practical. This doesn't make them magically deficient from any draw back, it only sets a POINT OF PLAUSIBILITY. We start from there and attempt to describe WHY they work. Banging our heads against the fictional laws of Macross world gets us nowhere, IMO. If we don't accept the point of plausbility, then we simply demolish the foundations of the Macross fiction. At that point we cease explaining why it DOES work and instead explain why it DOESN'T work. For my part, I'm not interested in why the Macross fiction doesn't work; I already know that. I'm interested in imagining why it does work and reconciling the fiction within itself.

Macross already has such guns. The theoretical muzzle velocity limit for gas expansion weapons is 1,800 m/s. The Destroid Defender has 78mm guns with an official muzzle velocity of 3,300 meters per second. Rail guns, like that ones the military are currently researching, can achieve muzzle velocities of 3,500 m/s. So how did the Destroid Defender's guns jump an additional 1,500 m/s beyond the limit of ballistic technology without being a rail gun? Must be OverTechnology. As for beam guns, I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think fans are being awfully presumptuous about the advantages and capabilities of laser/beam weaponry in Macross. Plenty is said about the numerous disadvantages of ballistics as if directed-energy weapons have none of their own. It's almost taken for granted that because a laser/beam gun fires an energy beam, it's without fault, limitation or disadvantage. Surely, these are not reasonable assumptions. Perhaps beam weapons don't have the disadvantages of a "ballistic weapon" but they likely have the disadvantages of a "directed-energy weapon". Perhaps laser/beam weapons have only limited destructive capability when scaled down to fighter size. Perhaps laser/beam weapons may only be capable of firing a certain number of times before they need to cycle down before firing again. What about accuracy? Gun pods don't need to be high precision instruments to be effective, but lasers and beam cannons likely do. A gun pod can be "dragged through the mud" and still work, but what about lasers and beam cannons? They may be far more fragile. What about heating? Overheating in ballistics is one of the major drawbacks in high rate-of-fire, continuous use guns. Energy weapons would be even worse! Beam weapons might require cooling systems that are cumbersome and even the best may allow the energy guns to be utilized only for short periods of time. Perhaps laser/beam weapons have high power consumption. Perhaps beam weapons are greatly affected by harsh environmental conditions like dust, rain, cold or humidity. Perhaps using beam weapons disrupts stealth; they'd be like a blazing beacon for any radar system. The list goes on. We have the luxury of hundreds of years of ballistics knowledge and we know all their disadvantages. But because beam weapons are fictional, there's a tendency to assume the rules don't apply to them simply because the disadvantages haven't been spelled out. I'd say if they are still using ballistic weapons in Macross it's because they are still practical weapons even in an era of directed-energy weaponry. I find it a perfectly reasonable assumption that if OverTechnology has advanced the science of directed-energy weapons, it's also advanced the science of ballistics, missiles and explosives.

From the M3

The compendium does say the VF-1 laser fires at 6,000 pulses per minute, whatever that means. I believe there was a gun pod that jammed in Macross Plus. One of the fellas in the opening battle requested help when his gun pod jammed.

The design of the Macross Galaxy is likely just a way to distinguish it from the Macross Frontier fleet. It's a radically different design, different color and even the escort ships are orange. It's just a visual cue, much in the same way Kawamori wanted the VF-171 as the cannon fodder fighter so it was very distinguishable from the VF-25 hero fighter.

Brilliant. Thanks so much GGemini

I think d3v's interpretation is a valid point. We already know that various variable fighters have been built for various functions, not all of which are aerospace superiority. The VB-6 Konig Monster, the VA-3 Invader, and so forth. The VF-17 Nightmare is a special operations and heavy battroid valkyrie and the VF-171 is described as a fighter/bomber. It goes without saying the VF-1 Valkyrie and the VF-25 Messiah are certainly multi-role variable fighters. Also, the VF-0 Phoenix apparently uses AHEAD rounds for the gun pod and the VF-25 Messiah's were outfitted with Anti-Vajra ESA munitions (rounds and missiles) in Macross Frontier. And of course there are all those numerous types of gun pods for different operational requirements.

Got my shipment today and I've had a chance to look it over. As we all know, the Macross Chronicle is not one book but a series of loose-leaf style sheets inside a thin folder (with three-hole punch in each sheet). The first issue contains 20 pages and each issue is divided into specialty sheets titled Mechanic Sheet, Character Sheet, Timeline Sheet, World Guide Sheet, History Sheet, Technology Sheet, Gallery Sheet, Song Sheet, Goods Sheet, and four other miscellaneous sheets named Glossary, Tribute, Making and Extra Sheets. Each Macross Chronicle issue is made to fit inside a Macross Chronicle binder (sold seperately) which features dividers for 7 categories; Mechanic, Character, Timeline, History, Technology, World Guide and Special. Macross Chroncile Issue One details the VF-1J Valkyrie, including a 2-page fold out painting of the fighter mode in high detail colors, drawn by Tenjin Hidetaka (known for his beautiful Macross art work on the Hasegawa model boxes and his own Tenjin Hidetaka Valkyrie Artworks of Macross book). There is not an abundance of line art to be found here but the VF-1J section does include line art of VF-1J white/red in full color Fighter and Fighter ventral view, full color Battroid and Battroid rear view and full color GERWALK and GERWALK rear view. Also included are full color pictures for all modes of the Max and Milia variants of the VF-1J Valkyrie. Also included is the VF-19 Excalibur Custom Sound Booster (color Battroid mode only) sheet, Lynn Minmay Character Sheet, Haruhiko Mikimoto Gallery Sheet (with another 2-page fold out painting), Mash Macross II Character sheet, 1999-2004 Timeline Sheet, Sharon Apple History Sheet, Technology Sheet, Sheryl Nome Song Sheet, the old Bandai 1/55 scale VF-1J transformable toy Goods Sheet, a subscription sheet and a Yamato advertisement sheet for the VF-1A Valkyrie 1/48 scale Max and the VF-1S Super Valkyrie 1/48 scale Hikaru weathered. Without a doubt the Macross Chronicle is designed to be a fan book. It's filled with plenty of flavor text, official trivia and is very colorful. It's designed to cover ALL aspects of the Macross universe, NOT focus upon only one facet of the fiction. So it cannot be emphasized enough that - based on the mechanic sections of issue 1 - the Macross Chronicle is NOT a replacement for the art books of the Macross Mecha, like the Shoji Kawamori Macross Design Works book for example. Other than the full color pictures, there is not a lot of extra line art to admire and most of the non-color pictures are small. However, since this is the first time we've ever seen the Macross mecha colored in a collected work, this book is a real treasure. Speaking as owner of the Macross Mecha Manual, the coloring is definitely a step up from my own coloring work Here's some pictures:

Want high res scan for wallpaper. Pretty please *kicks self* I'm glad to hear it. I'm going to give HMV Japan a try for the next issue, hopefully I'll remember before they sell out this time

That's comedy gold right there.

This thread alone should be proof positive for all the naysayers why Revoltechs rock An amazing piece of work Ruak. May I include your art in the For Fans Only section of my website?

I believe d3v brings up another good point. The use of lasers and other energy guns perceived as "light speed" weaponry are only as useful as the supporting technologies that allow these directed-energy weapons to function. The ability to fire upon a target 300,000 kilometers away the same second you pull the trigger isn't any good if one cannot power the weapon sufficiently to ensure it's still destructive at such extreme range. If you have no way of seeing or detecting targets that far out, what good is your super long range laser? How could one possibly build a gun so accurate it could hit something a light second out when even a hair width's of motion at the barrel can throw a shot dozens of kilometers off target by the time a beam travels that far? These are just a few of the limitations of energy weapons. With the advent of rail cannons and other mass accelerators, ballistic weapons can remain effective for a very, very long time. In fact, the simplicity of the ballistic weapon likely ensures we'll never see it retire. Like I've always said, all we need is a 1 kg bullet going .75c and you've got a 20 megaton reason to dump that power hungry beam weapon

Cool. A fine discussion. In my opinion, I don't believe self-sufficient existence in space is "high science". The ability to perpetuate an artificial habitat as opposed to subsisting upon a naturally occurring habitat (planet) is far more grounded science than one might think. We don't require replicators, limitless cheap energy, gravity control, transporters, lightsabers or OverTechnology to achieve subsistence in space. And the more we learn, the more science suggests that zero gravity industry, not planet bound industry, is the ideal method for capitalist venture in a space faring civilization. It's also a sad reality that we all exist without choice. Space travel is not an option for us and we have accepted our prison on this planet because we simply have no other choice. Few of us can truly imagine a life off-world let alone conceive the thought that perhaps some would resent planet dwelling. Future generations may not have our mindset; perhaps a predictive conceit on my part, but I'd dare to say for certain they will not Nonetheless, whether the bubbles we inhabit are natural or artificial, space will likely change the nature of warfare more than I can imagine. But I'm certain fighters will be around, whether near-future or far-future.

Yeah, it's like the little note I made in my post above, describing the problems with lasers as they function in Macross. It's just the nature of sci-fi I guess. The poor laser is probably the most abused sci-fi concept there is