zeus the zentran Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Heya peoples, I just bought Wizards on dvd and I rented Street Fight a.k.a Coonskin last weekend.Anyone know good Ralph Bashki info sites or where to get Street Fight at a reasonable price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSW Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 (edited) Not off hand...I'd think a Google (it's Bakshi not Bashki ) should point you in the right direction. edit: Now why didn't I think of this earlyer...Bakshi's official website: http://www.ralphbakshi.com/ Also check out Animation World Network ( http://www.awn.com ) you can find lots of info and such there. Bakshi's flicks were both a bit ahead of and a product of thier time IMHO...ahead in the sense that it was certafiably adult animation (even largely before anime targeted the market)...and a product of the times in the sense that "head films" were big box office back then thanks to the likes of Easy Rider... If you get the chance (and you liked Coonskin) check out Heavy Traffic (it's out on DVD)...it's sort of an autobiography, concerning a young artist involved in a interacial relationship back when such things were taboo... Coonskin was the original title, and there was so much uproar when the film was released that theaters wouldn't even play it...it got renamed Street Fight in some markets to subdue some of the heat the film was being targeted with...I don't think it's out on DVD yet...you might find a VHS rip though on ebay American Pop isn't too bad, nor is Fire amd Ice...it's been a while sense I've seen Hey Good Looking, but it was okay...Best thing about Cool World was the soundtrack IMHO Edited June 20, 2004 by MSW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 :::shudders::: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeus the zentran Posted June 22, 2004 Author Share Posted June 22, 2004 Shudders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damaramu Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 There's a popular opinion that the words "Good" and "Ralph Bakshi" should never be in a sentence together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amped Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 :::shudders::: This from the guy who bravely, tho misguidedly, defends M7?!? Ha. HA I say!!!! As for Bakshi, the quality of his finished work was sometimes dodgy, but I think that often had more to do with his story 'vision' far outstripping his available budgets (or at least, his inability to fit his stories withinin the context of a budget). Say what you will about the man, but he has a pretty ballsy idea of what animation can accomplish as a mature story telling medium. Way ahead of his time in that respect.... and maybe even a little ahead of our own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 I don't think maturity had anything to do with it. He just found a niche medium where he could try to pioneer his own brand of softcore porn & violence. Had nothing even remotely to do with "maturity," as the bulk of his target audience would be high school kids wanting to see blood & tits. His rotoscoping was attrocious (as such the terms "animation" & bakshi" should be used loosely together), and he forced R. Crumb to kill off his own character just to do it service after Bakshi botched it (i.e. Fritz The Cat). The man has done nothing good for animation or movie making period, just presented more stereo types to push people away from the concept of "non-kiddie" animation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSW Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Don't mind Keith. He is convinced that his opinions must be shared by one and all...tolorance is not one of his virtues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaine23 Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Yeah, because there were so many other American animators even trying to do something different than the Disney monolith mold during the 70's and 80's. Bakshi deserves credit simply for not being part of that machine and going the tougher road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 as the bulk of his target audience would be high school kids wanting to see blood & tits. sounds familiar.... hmmm... oh yeah... much like ANIME!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amped Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 I don't think maturity had anything to do with it. Oh please. Keith, it's one thing to be the resident message board contrarian for sh*ts 'n' giggles... but it shouldn't be made at the expense of constructing a lucid argument! It just makes ya look... silly. If I can accept that there is more 'story subtext' to something that is (in my opinion) completely FRUITCAKE like Macross 7, then surely you can get past the obvious T&A of a Bakshi production to see the deeper socio-political commenary that is being made! I don't like M7's goofy characters and piss-poor production values... but then I don't like the shortcuts and piss poor production of Bakshi's LOTR either... but I think that both are nonetheless compelling storys told by visionaries in the art of animation. A film like Bakshi's WIZARDS was dealing with issues of genocide, facism, & terrorism in a fairly complex, polarizing & adult manner... 25 years ago! Granted, he used elves & wizards & such to get his point across... but is that any less justifiable than using a annoying pansy asswad with a guitar & giant transformable jet/robot to tell a story of peace thru... music.?!? Riiiiiiight. Animation is an artistic entertainment medium that can be used to tell a silly story with serious characters... or use silly characters to tell a serious story. Like any artform it depends on the artist and his/her vision. Bakshi reached far out & took chances that few animators in his day were willing to try. The man deserves props & respect for that. Slamming Bakshi because one doesn't like his animation technique or story would be as flat-out stupid as slamming Kawamori for the same reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeus the zentran Posted June 23, 2004 Author Share Posted June 23, 2004 to da defenders of bashki much respect!I wish american and canadian animation would advance in the adult field again.As for Fritz the Cat mixed emotions and Cool World lets face it was ehhh.I gotta look at Fritz the cat agin.The Crumb movie made me prejudice against it.Hell he ain't as a bad as Macek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Fire and Ice was awesome! The man has tallent. You can't compare him to any anime producers though... He has a unique style, like it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Your odd attempts at comparing M7 to bakshi's trash are reaching at best. "Doing something different," and "rotoscoped softcore porn," are two different things in themselves. Next you'll try and claim he made a superior (or at the very least "adiquate) version of lord of the rings.... If you want "different," or "adult" animation, then take a look back at warner's 40's/50's stuff (especially the wartime stuff). Adult in theme, beautiful animation quality, and it doesn't reach down to any cheap low's. Nohting Bakshi "EVER" did matched what came before him (or after for that matter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSW Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 "rotoscoped softcore porn" We get the point Keith. You don't like Bakshi, and don't think we should either... So, I suggest you move on...You have said your piece, your opinion has been noted, you should be adult enough to live with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amped Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Next you'll try and claim he made a superior (or at the very least "adiquate) version of lord of the rings.... *sigh* I know I'm playing into your need for attention by replying, but I do think this is worth addressing... Truncated story & and overuse of rotoscoping aside (tho that technique did lend a certain 'look' to the production), Bakshi's LOTR was noteworthy for it's production design values. In fact, it has been clearly acknowledged by Peter Jackson & various other folks involved in the design development of the recent LOTR live action trilogy that the 'look' of Bakshi's LOTR influenced their design in some ways. If all Bakshi did was produce crap, then I hardly think other film makers 'd cite him as a influence!!! I seriously doubt that you have even seen the majority of Bakshi's body of work. Whatever... It's obvious your limited world view doesn't allow you to accept that views contrary to your own might have any validity. Think what you wanna think, I frankly don't care to debate the ill-conceived arguements of someone so close-minded as yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amped Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 BTW... to get back on topic... Here's a few decent links on Bakshi for those interested it getting a more well-rounded overview of the man & his body of work: http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/518/518805p1.html (an excllent recent interview) http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/317/317033p1.html (career overview) http://avclub.theonion.com/feature/index.php?issue=3644&f=1 (interview) http://avclub.theonion.com/review.php?review_id=30 (American Pop review) http://avclub.theonion.com/review.php?review_id=7492 (Wizards review) http://avclub.theonion.com/review.php?review_id=4827 (LOTR Review) http://dvd.ign.com/articles/305/305916p1.html?fromint=1 (LOTR Review) http://slate.msn.com/id/2058784/ (excellent overview of Bakshi's style & technique, focusing on LOTR) & http://www.filmcritic.com/misc/emporium.ns...11?OpenDocument (Wizards review) I leave you with a quote from filmcritic.com link (above)... "Nowadays, animated movies are crafted stunningly and entertainingly, but seldom have the courage to challenge our thoughts and uncertainties through avant-garde speculation. It is refreshing to experience films like Wizards that remind us how animated films can fill a niche in the filmmaking community. Wizards may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but it is an audacious refreshment that deserves appreciation and respect nonetheless." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsu legato Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 You have said your piece, your opinion has been noted, you should be adult enough to live with that. Heh....are you new here? You have read his posts, haven't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaine23 Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Your odd attempts at comparing M7 to bakshi's trash are reaching at best. "Doing something different," and "rotoscoped softcore porn," are two different things in themselves. Next you'll try and claim he made a superior (or at the very least "adiquate) version of lord of the rings....If you want "different," or "adult" animation, then take a look back at warner's 40's/50's stuff (especially the wartime stuff). Adult in theme, beautiful animation quality, and it doesn't reach down to any cheap low's. Nohting Bakshi "EVER" did matched what came before him (or after for that matter). His LotR was ahead of it's time and it was far better than could be expected, especially considering the godawful Rankin Bass Hobbit and RotK that followed. Can't take any more chances? Dumb it down, throw in stupid songs, and have a 3rd rate hippie look and call it a kids' movie! Also, it's more than a bit unfair to compare his "lame rotoscoping" with Warner's stuff - even back in the 40's and 50's. The money and manpower used to make that animation was substantial. Bakshi most often worked with little budget and little manpower compared to the studios. If he was a lesser artist he woulda cashed in and made only crappy kids' cartoons. At anytime he could have gone the kiddie route, but he chose to do what he wanted. I respect that. Even if there's a lot of his stuff I'm not crazy about. The fact that you have to reach back to wartime 40-50's animation for an adult theme in American animation says quite a bit about how difficult it is to come up with a comparison for his work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Your odd attempts at comparing M7 to bakshi's trash are reaching at best. "Doing something different," and "rotoscoped softcore porn," are two different things in themselves. Next you'll try and claim he made a superior (or at the very least "adiquate) version of lord of the rings....If you want "different," or "adult" animation, then take a look back at warner's 40's/50's stuff (especially the wartime stuff). Adult in theme, beautiful animation quality, and it doesn't reach down to any cheap low's. Nohting Bakshi "EVER" did matched what came before him (or after for that matter). We all need to drop the M7 argument in this thread... It has nothing to do the subject. Keith, Have you seen Fire and Ice? I personally think it is one of the greatest animation features ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Your odd attempts at comparing M7 to bakshi's trash are reaching at best. "Doing something different," and "rotoscoped softcore porn," are two different things in themselves. Next you'll try and claim he made a superior (or at the very least "adiquate) version of lord of the rings....If you want "different," or "adult" animation, then take a look back at warner's 40's/50's stuff (especially the wartime stuff). Adult in theme, beautiful animation quality, and it doesn't reach down to any cheap low's. Nohting Bakshi "EVER" did matched what came before him (or after for that matter). We all need to drop the M7 argument in this thread... It has nothing to do the subject. Keith, Have you seen Fire and Ice? I personally think it is one of the greatest animation features ever. No, I only managed to make it through: -American Pop -LotR -Fritz The Cat -Heavy Metal -Heavy Traffic That was enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Your odd attempts at comparing M7 to bakshi's trash are reaching at best. "Doing something different," and "rotoscoped softcore porn," are two different things in themselves. Next you'll try and claim he made a superior (or at the very least "adiquate) version of lord of the rings....If you want "different," or "adult" animation, then take a look back at warner's 40's/50's stuff (especially the wartime stuff). Adult in theme, beautiful animation quality, and it doesn't reach down to any cheap low's. Nohting Bakshi "EVER" did matched what came before him (or after for that matter). We all need to drop the M7 argument in this thread... It has nothing to do the subject. Keith, Have you seen Fire and Ice? I personally think it is one of the greatest animation features ever. No, I only managed to make it through: -American Pop -LotR -Fritz The Cat -Heavy Metal -Heavy Traffic That was enough for me. I have actually never seen any of those. How about you watch Fire and Ice, and I will see something on the list. After Fire and Ice I just find it hard to swallow that this guy is a chump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amped Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 ...I only managed to make it through:-American Pop -LotR -Fritz The Cat -Heavy Metal -Heavy Traffic That was enough for me. FYI, As far as I know, Bakshi had NOTHING to do with Heavy Metal. The only similarity is that Bakshi often dealt with 'adult-oriented' animation, the genre of which HM was considerd to be a part of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSW Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 (edited) Your odd attempts at comparing M7 to bakshi's trash are reaching at best. "Doing something different," and "rotoscoped softcore porn," are two different things in themselves. Next you'll try and claim he made a superior (or at the very least "adiquate) version of lord of the rings....If you want "different," or "adult" animation, then take a look back at warner's 40's/50's stuff (especially the wartime stuff). Adult in theme, beautiful animation quality, and it doesn't reach down to any cheap low's. Nohting Bakshi "EVER" did matched what came before him (or after for that matter). We all need to drop the M7 argument in this thread... It has nothing to do the subject. Keith, Have you seen Fire and Ice? I personally think it is one of the greatest animation features ever. No, I only managed to make it through: -American Pop -LotR -Fritz The Cat -Heavy Metal -Heavy Traffic That was enough for me. Bakshi had nothing to do with Heavy Metal... The IMDB entry on Heavy Metal : http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082509/ The IMDB entry for Bakshi : http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000835/ Edited June 25, 2004 by MSW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 You're correct, heavy metal sucked all on its own. As for fire & ice, as soon as I find a copy for rent I'll check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeus the zentran Posted June 26, 2004 Author Share Posted June 26, 2004 Hey guy you only say Heavy Metal sucked because you didn't have the brains to realize Bashki didn't do it.If it wasn't for people like him breaking boundaries that animation isn't just for kids anime wouldn't striking it as big over here.You like Macross Seven so you ain't dat bad.Oh I remember reading in the First Tezuka Phoenix book that Tezuka really liked the Bashki Lord of the Rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkullLeaderVF-X Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 (edited) I always like Rock and Rule, and am eargerly awaiting it's offial dvd release. As for Heavy metal, it was "meh" Edited June 27, 2004 by SkullLeaderVF-X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Hey guy you only say Heavy Metal sucked because you didn't have the brains to realize Bashki didn't do it.If it wasn't for people like him breaking boundaries that animation isn't just for kids anime wouldn't striking it as big over here.You like Macross Seven so you ain't dat bad.Oh I remember reading in the First Tezuka Phoenix book that Tezuka really liked the Bashki Lord of the Rings. No, I say Heavy Metal sucked because it was a flaming piece of crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeus the zentran Posted June 27, 2004 Author Share Posted June 27, 2004 ahhhhhhhhh,Rock n'Rule!I heard it might be coming on dvd does anyone know anyhting about that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JELEINEN Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 How did Fire and Ice end? I remember being disapointed by the ending when I watched it, but it's been so long since I saw it that I don't remember how it ended. The only Bakshi title that I care at all for was American Pop. I thuroughly dislike the animation in it (not a fan of rotoscope), but in spite of the fact that it has no real plot, the story fascinated me. Also the music throughout the film was excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkullLeaderVF-X Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 ahhhhhhhhh,Rock n'Rule!I heard it might be coming on dvd does anyone know anyhting about that? right now they have it on hold.Unearthed films has the right to the movies (both american and canadiean version). But the masters for the the films, they got from Nelvana were to detriorated.So there trying to get the masters from MGM.There also trying to attain ther o.k to release a official soundtrack tot he movie, since non was ever made (kinda sad seeing how the soundtrack is kickass in the movie). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Bah....everybody knows that Bakshi's best work was on the 70s Spiderman cartoon series But seriously, the only thing I ever really liked that Bakshi did was Wizards. Blew me away when I saw it at age 10, oh so many years ago. Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkullLeaderVF-X Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Bah....everybody knows that Bakshi's best work was on the 70s Spiderman cartoon series But seriously, the only thing I ever really liked that Bakshi did was Wizards. Blew me away when I saw it at age 10, oh so many years ago. Graham I keep hearing alot of good things about Wizards.What was it about?The only stuff I really ever like of Bakshi's was Rock and Rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areaseven Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Bah....everybody knows that Bakshi's best work was on the 70s Spiderman cartoon series I agree. No animated Spider-Man adaptation comes close to Bakshi's version. BTW, zeus the zentran, it's Bakshi, not "Bashki". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSW Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I keep hearing alot of good things about Wizards.What was it about?The only stuff I really ever like of Bakshi's was Rock and Rule. Umm...Bakshi had nothing to do with Rock and Rule either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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