Super Macross Mecha Fun Time Discussion Thread!

[JB0]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Macross Chronicle's Technology "Macross Galaxy Fleet Technology" (a Macross Frontier movie one) suggests the New UN Gov't was worried the Zentradi might use cyborg tech to become more of a threat if development wasn't carefully supervised and restricted.  Basically, the didn't want Zentradi cyborg supersoldiers in the next Zentradi riot.

That's a more boring explanation.

[Seto Kaiba]

38 minutes ago, JB0 said:

That's a more boring explanation.

It's more or less the same as your hypothesis... just slightly narrower in scope since the New UN Gov't initially apparently didn't consider more civil war a possibility. 

[pengbuzz]

15 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Macross Frontier and later works use the term "implant" as a generic/catch-all term for any kind of cybernetic implant.

Both the series proper and supplemental material indicate that there are laws governing the use of implant technology both at the local government level and the central New UN Government level.  The New UN Government imposed strict regulations and restrictions on cybernetics research after the First Space War in order to keep humanity's cybernetics research focused on humane and ethically-sound medical applications and outlaw research aimed at weaponizing cyborgs.

The kind of implants that are legal everywhere (incl. Frontier) are medically-necessary organ and limb replacements.  The kind of thing used to repair catastrophic injuries like the loss of a limb or an eye.  The few examples we've seen suggest that these implants don't exceed the performance of the original human body parts they replaced and look visibly artificial.  (Macross R's Oscar Brauhitsch has a cybernetic arm, which looks more like Ed's automail arm from Fullmetal Alchemist than a convincing counterfeit human arm.)  The restrictions on elective implants seem to have been relaxed a little c. the late 2040s, since that's when we see the Macross Galaxy fleet change its local laws to explicitly permit elective implant surgery for things like "the internet in your brain" multimedia/network implants.  We've seen a few wealthy and well-connected folks living elsewhere also have those implants, so presumably they were legalized in other places as well after restrictions were relaxed.  

Frontier's ban on all but medically necessary implants is supposedly driven mainly by the fleet's bioplant environment system which recycles all organic material.  Implants aren't biodegradable/recyclable after all, and would have to be manually removed from the body before processing could take place.

Summing up... Frontier, Uroboros, etc. are probably far more representative of the galactic norm on cybernetics.  You might get a couple rich idiots who paid a fortune to get their brains hooked up to the WiFi, but most people are in factory condition.

One example I can think of is Col. Johnson's artificial leg, which he was reconnecting while lecturing Lt. Dyson about "stupidity" in Macross Plus:

(Timestamp: 18:02)

It looked like the leg was built to look like a boot, but I cannot quite tell.

[Seto Kaiba]

5 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

One example I can think of is Col. Johnson's artificial leg, which he was reconnecting while lecturing Lt. Dyson about "stupidity" in Macross Plus:

Y'know, I'd always assumed that Millard Johnson's prosthetic leg in Macross Plus was a conventional prosthesis... but it appears you are correct.  His Macross Chronicle Character Sheet explicitly refers to his artificial leg as a "robotic prosthetic".

[pengbuzz]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Y'know, I'd always assumed that Millard Johnson's prosthetic leg in Macross Plus was a conventional prosthesis... but it appears you are correct.  His Macross Chronicle Character Sheet explicitly refers to his artificial leg as a "robotic prosthetic".

I didn't even know it was robotic; I wouldn't even call that a "lucky guess" so much as Macross Chronicle revealing something we didn't know. I just mentioned it in passing over Macross and replacement limbs/ implants. With that revealed, I suppose he has a post implanted that the leg attaches to and allows for some dexterity/ feel?

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

I didn't even know it was robotic; I wouldn't even call that a "lucky guess" so much as Macross Chronicle revealing something we didn't know. I just mentioned it in passing over Macross and replacement limbs/ implants. With that revealed, I suppose he has a post implanted that the leg attaches to and allows for some dexterity/ feel?

While I was thinking on this one I did a bit of research, and it turned out to be quite a rabbit hole when it comes to technologies for improving medical prosthetics.

Col. Johnson's artificial leg is described as a "robotic prosthetic" limb rather than a cybernetic one.  There's apparently a key distinction there in terms of how the prothesis is being controlled.  Cybernetic prosthetics would be directly integrated into the nervous system and controlled like a biological limb.  Robotic prosthetics, on the other hand, are indirectly monitoring motor nerves via EMG sensors, via magnets implanted in the muscles themselves, or using computer models to guess what the correct posture is instead of working like a biological limb.

So it sounds like Millard's leg is not actually tied into his nervous system... which explains why that was a career-ending injury.  It's enough to let him walk normally, but he likely doesn't have any feeling in that leg and limited-at-best control over the motions of the joints.

[pengbuzz]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

While I was thinking on this one I did a bit of research, and it turned out to be quite a rabbit hole when it comes to technologies for improving medical prosthetics.

Col. Johnson's artificial leg is described as a "robotic prosthetic" limb rather than a cybernetic one.  There's apparently a key distinction there in terms of how the prothesis is being controlled.  Cybernetic prosthetics would be directly integrated into the nervous system and controlled like a biological limb.  Robotic prosthetics, on the other hand, are indirectly monitoring motor nerves via EMG sensors, via magnets implanted in the muscles themselves, or using computer models to guess what the correct posture is instead of working like a biological limb.

So it sounds like Millard's leg is not actually tied into his nervous system... which explains why that was a career-ending injury.  It's enough to let him walk normally, but he likely doesn't have any feeling in that leg and limited-at-best control over the motions of the joints.

Understood; yeah, seeing how Isamu worked the foot pedals on the YF-19, Johnson wouldn't really be able to do that very well. By the time they made any serious advances (like Delta), Johnson would probably be retired anyways (or dead from a Dyson-induced stroke!).

[guyxxed]

That leads my weird brain to another rabbit hole of wondering.  Can Zentradi (or anyone, actually) with cybernetics get micronized or macronized?  The cloning tanks presumably wouldn't copy nonbilogical material into the new scale.  Is that why Exodor was still big in M7?  And does that mean that the captain of the Elysion in Delta (forgotten his name for the moment) got his prosthetics after humanitarian?

Also makes me wonder why you wouldn't just use micro/macronization as a treatment anytime someone loses a limb or has grievous bodily harm.  Their DNA still has all the right parts, just grow them up/down and they're good as new again.

Edited May 4 by guyxxed

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, guyxxed said:

That leads my weird brain to another rabbit hole of wondering.  Can Zentradi (or anyone, actually) with cybernetics get micronized or macronized?  The cloning tanks presumably wouldn't copy nonbilogical material into the new scale. 

That is an excellent question we do not currently have an answer for.

We know there are some health conditions, principally genetic ones, which prevent a person from safely using a micloning system and we know that the miclone system can both remove and install biotechnological components of the body like the Meltran bio-fiber optic nervous system or a records officer's expanded memory.  There's no word on whether micloning can work with cybernetics or even more minimal body mods like tattoos and piercings.

Since giant Zentradi are prohibited on Earth and aren't present in most emigrant fleets or planets for resource reasons, this may be something of an academic question even in-universe.

 

7 hours ago, guyxxed said:

Is that why Exodor was still big in M7? 

Supplemental material for Macross 7 indicates that Exsedol did spend time among Humans as a miclone toward the end of the First Space War as we saw in the Super Dimension Fortress Macross TV series.  It's noted that, by the time of the Macross 7 fleet's departure, he had returned to his giant size and original body plan because he was concerned that his miclone form's smaller size might mean reduced memory and information analysis capability compared to his specialized giant form.

 

7 hours ago, guyxxed said:

And does that mean that the captain of the Elysion in Delta (forgotten his name for the moment) got his prosthetics after humanitarian?

Ernest Johnson is a half-Zentradi "peace child".

Exactly what's going on with that metal on the back of his head is unclear, but it may be related to his unusual body proportions.  Macross Delta Character Design Works has some notes that suggest Ernest's height and unusual proportions are not natural, but are instead the result of some quirk of his half-Zentradi genetics not playing nice with repeated use of micloning systems and leaving him slightly deformed with a Hellboy-like physique.  It's possible that metal bit is reinforcing his skull due to those micloning-related health issues, or perhaps it's simply an affectation because he's bald?

(For instance, TV Vrlitwhai's "eyepatch" wasn't an implant... it was basically just an outlandish eyepatch bolted directly to his skull to cover up an injury.)

 

7 hours ago, guyxxed said:

Also makes me wonder why you wouldn't just use micro/macronization as a treatment anytime someone loses a limb or has grievous bodily harm.  Their DNA still has all the right parts, just grow them up/down and they're good as new again.

That's a good question, which we don't have an answer for.

Perhaps it's too great of a strain on the body and mind for a severely injured person.  Maybe the system really is THAT doggedly precise that it'll recreate injuries and scar tissue not just run off a copy of the body based on its DNA.  Or maybe it's something to do with the genetic issues that prevent some people from using micloning systems safely that have been mentioned several times since Macross Frontier.  Klan Klan, Michael Blanc, and Ernest Johnson are all mentioned to have (or be at risk for) issues caused by miclone systems.

[guyxxed]

I guess micronization is the Macross version of the Star Trek transporter problem.  It was dreamed up to solve a plot/setting problem, but the implications of the technology start to break the setting (somewhat) if you think about them too much. 

And I'm of the breed that does nothing but think about things too much. 😁 

Thanks for the confirmations, as extensive as the expanded universe materials are for Macross, it wouldn't have surprised me if there were explanations, but I guess I'm getting into "just go with it" territory. Or, at least, "Schroedingers Setting" territory, where it will only be defined when it becomes plot relevant.

[Seto Kaiba]

4 minutes ago, guyxxed said:

I guess micronization is the Macross version of the Star Trek transporter problem.  It was dreamed up to solve a plot/setting problem, but the implications of the technology start to break the setting (somewhat) if you think about them too much. 

Seems that way, yeah... they've come up with a couple good excuses for why the tech isn't used more widely, a lot of which are some flavor of acknowledging that repeated use of LEGO Genetics in the real world would be a very unhealthy thing to do even if they weren't for the massive changes in biochemistry necessary to work around the square cube law.

Admittedly, investigating this question led me to that very uncomfortable detail I hadn't been aware of before about Ernest Johnson's unusual proportions being a miclone system-induced deformity.  If a few too many trips through the miclone system without perfectly system-compatible genes can leave you with permanent physical and genetic alterations, that's a good reason to only use it sparingly.

[guyxxed]

I appreciate that they've thought even this much about it, and if they explore the implications even a little bit, like the inclusion of Johnson's troubles, then that also shows that the writers see it as more than just a handwave, which is nice.  That detail puts Klan's repeated use of micloning throughout Frontier into a bit of a different light, especially given her "clumsy genes" issue.  I'm sure the deformity issues weren't thought out too much at that stage, but hindsight now makes it look reckless.  I guess we can chalk it up to youth and love drivng risky behavior, and maybe also gives a backhanded explanation for her size (being almost as big as commander types in adult form).  Maybe that's a side effect of her repeated use and eventually she'll be as tall as Boldoza someday?  😉 

[TG Remix]

On 5/3/2025 at 1:20 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Macross Chronicle's Technology "Macross Galaxy Fleet Technology" (a Macross Frontier movie one) suggests the New UN Gov't was worried the Zentradi might use cyborg tech to become more of a threat if development wasn't carefully supervised and restricted.  Basically, the didn't want Zentradi cyborg supersoldiers in the next Zentradi riot.

...Huh, well that's both underwhelming and mildly annoying.

 

Maybe it's because I've recently went through stories on the generic side like M3, Digital Mission VF-X, and 7 Trash, but I'm not necessarily of a fan of how the franchise defaults to making rogue Zentradi being the only source of Anti-UN activity within the government's sphere, when we had material like Zero showing that humans are still as a big as jerks as we can be. I suppose it is supposed to be some kind of irony that the one fleet who went over and beyond with their cybernetics is the one population that had no Zentradi at all, but still....It definitely makes me appreciate VF-X2 for playing it a bit smarter then just yet more jolly green giant falling back to instincts.

 

On 5/4/2025 at 5:47 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

We know there are some health conditions, principally genetic ones, which prevent a person from safely using a micloning system and we know that the miclone system can both remove and install biotechnological components of the body like the Meltran bio-fiber optic nervous system or a records officer's expanded memory.  There's no word on whether micloning can work with cybernetics or even more minimal body mods like tattoos and piercings.

Since giant Zentradi are prohibited on Earth and aren't present in most emigrant fleets or planets for resource reasons, this may be something of an academic question even in-universe.

 

Reminds me of one VF-1 Master File book that had a small blurb about Regults being stationed as garrison units for Macross City because some giants were unable to be micloned....Which had to suck for them and others who had the same issue when the ban was put in place.

 

Even with the ban in place I'd imagine some areas being more savvy to researching it. Rich places like the Frontier fleet of course had a island block dedicated to them, and Ouroboros has a notable population of Zentradi that work as giants, even with specified mining suits for them. And at least with 30's novelization having some of their woes being treated as nothing more then "walking Destroids," if not living as one full time, instances can exist where some study can be done with them in a somewhat consistent basis. 

 

On 5/4/2025 at 5:47 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Supplemental material for Macross 7 indicates that Exsedol did spend time among Humans as a miclone toward the end of the First Space War as we saw in the Super Dimension Fortress Macross TV series.  It's noted that, by the time of the Macross 7 fleet's departure, he had returned to his giant size and original body plan because he was concerned that his miclone form's smaller size might mean reduced memory and information analysis capability compared to his specialized giant form.

I wonder if that was the material's way of having both SDF and DYRL designs work in tandem one another, where the former could be seen as his miclone appearance without the specialized brain capacity of a archivist type. Would that imply that with some cases miconization would actively change the physical form of someone if necessary? Macross Outside Story seems to suggest something like that, since it mentions giants having the placement and even amount of internal organs being modified, where their miclone bodies are the exact same as humans. Something's bound to change during the process.

 

On 5/4/2025 at 5:47 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Ernest Johnson is a half-Zentradi "peace child".

Exactly what's going on with that metal on the back of his head is unclear, but it may be related to his unusual body proportions.  Macross Delta Character Design Works has some notes that suggest Ernest's height and unusual proportions are not natural, but are instead the result of some quirk of his half-Zentradi genetics not playing nice with repeated use of micloning systems and leaving him slightly deformed with a Hellboy-like physique.  It's possible that metal bit is reinforcing his skull due to those micloning-related health issues, or perhaps it's simply an affectation because he's bald?

Does seem like with his case, alongside Guld's and Micheal's, that even if some were more overstated then others, that they were still playing with the concept of unforseen consequences of Zentradi hybrids, or at the very least with Klang's, Zentran born through normal reproduction. Makes me wonder the other quirks we see with others in Frontier are a result of that, like Ranka's emotive hair, and a background one that I could've sworn had orc-like tusks. Definitely can be an amazing in-universe study on how random it is and why some are hit harder then others, since Guld seems like the odd man out regarding his enhanced aggression with other half-Zentradi, and Micheal's incapability to become giant.  

(Well ignoring the fact that they're not as marketable as those like Ranka and the Jenius daughters lol.)

 

Ernest being half-Zentran intrigues me somewhat; in Delta's mini theatre it presents him with a very extensive (and quite frankly questionable) career going between many insurgent forces; specifically the Kamujin Clan, rogue Zentradi, and Black Rainbow, which surprised me the most considering most of the animated material opted to not really mention or reference spin off material. Kamujin's mention also caught me off guard since his reign on Earth didn't really last beyond two years. I'm only assuming he'd have remnants to follow where he couldn't? His character page in Macross Chronicle did mention a child he was rumored to have with Laplamiz...

[Seto Kaiba]

44 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

Maybe it's because I've recently went through stories on the generic side like M3, Digital Mission VF-X, and 7 Trash, but I'm not necessarily of a fan of how the franchise defaults to making rogue Zentradi being the only source of Anti-UN activity within the government's sphere, when we had material like Zero showing that humans are still as a big as jerks as we can be. I suppose it is supposed to be some kind of irony that the one fleet who went over and beyond with their cybernetics is the one population that had no Zentradi at all, but still....It definitely makes me appreciate VF-X2 for playing it a bit smarter then just yet more jolly green giant falling back to instincts.

If you think about it, it's not surprising that Zentradi would make up the bulk of anti-government militants.

There were 8 times as many Zentradi as Humans living on Earth after the First Space War, and there's likely been a fairly decent intake of Zentradi over the decades as the New UN Forces encounter and defeat various Zentradi scouting forces and such.  It's been fairly well established that a lot of Zentradi struggle to adapt to a life without the rigor of military discipline and the adrenaline high of combat.  Some get over it in time.  Some turn to substance abuse.  Some join the New UN Forces to find a "healthy" outlet for their urges, and some wind up joining anti-government groups either because they feel discriminated against or simply so they can indulge their designed-in instinct to fight.

The number of incidents seems to have gone down with time, though... whether that's simply because the New UN Government is getting better at rehabilitating Zentradi soldiers and integrating them into society or because the Master File-mentioned gene theraphy is helping more Zentradi control their inbuilt aggression is unclear.

 

44 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

Even with the ban in place I'd imagine some areas being more savvy to researching it. Rich places like the Frontier fleet of course had a island block dedicated to them, and Ouroboros has a notable population of Zentradi that work as giants, even with specified mining suits for them. And at least with 30's novelization having some of their woes being treated as nothing more then "walking Destroids," if not living as one full time, instances can exist where some study can be done with them in a somewhat consistent basis. 

Probably.  I'd expect there are some medical firms researching ways to make micloning safer and more reliable, since there are at least a minority of people who suffer some kind of health problems because of it.

 

44 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

I wonder if that was the material's way of having both SDF and DYRL designs work in tandem one another, where the former could be seen as his miclone appearance without the specialized brain capacity of a archivist type. Would that imply that with some cases miconization would actively change the physical form of someone if necessary? Macross Outside Story seems to suggest something like that, since it mentions giants having the placement and even amount of internal organs being modified, where their miclone bodies are the exact same as humans. Something's bound to change during the process.

It certainly seems to have been, yes.

You already beat me to the reference I was going to point to, and Exsedol's bio suggests that micloning him involved removing a bunch of the biotechnological "features" that his role required... and that he reinstalled them when he returned to living as a giant for fear of running short of memory capacity.

 

44 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

Does seem like with his case, alongside Guld's and Micheal's, that even if some were more overstated then others, that they were still playing with the concept of unforseen consequences of Zentradi hybrids, or at the very least with Klang's, Zentran born through normal reproduction. Makes me wonder the other quirks we see with others in Frontier are a result of that, like Ranka's emotive hair, and a background one that I could've sworn had orc-like tusks. Definitely can be an amazing in-universe study on how random it is and why some are hit harder then others, since Guld seems like the odd man out regarding his enhanced aggression with other half-Zentradi, and Micheal's incapability to become giant.  

(Well ignoring the fact that they're not as marketable as those like Ranka and the Jenius daughters lol.)

For what it's worth, Ranka's hair is never mentioned as being a quirk/abnormality... just a trait she has through her Zentradi heritage.

We know almost nothing about Tokugawa-san, that giant Zentradi enka singer from Folmo mall.  He doesn't quite have tusks... but two of his bottom teeth do protrude past his lip almost like he has cute girl fangs.  That could be a genetic quirk, or it could also be an affectation he's adopted for his career as an enka singer along with his traditional Japanese wardrobe.

We do see other Zentradi with aggression/anger management issues in Macross 7.  The only hint we have as to why that tapered off is Master File's assertion that there was a gene therapy developed in the 2040s and 2050s that dialed the Zentradi's aggression responses back to Human levels, eliminating the need for the kind of medication that Guld was taking in Macross Plus.

 

44 minutes ago, TG Remix said:

Ernest being half-Zentran intrigues me somewhat; in Delta's mini theatre it presents him with a very extensive (and quite frankly questionable) career going between many insurgent forces; specifically the Kamujin Clan, [...]

Now, we know he has a history of choosing the underdog/losing side in basically every conflict he's fought in... but he's not that old.

His official bio says he's "in his 40s" in Macross Delta's TV series, meaning the earliest he could've been born is 2018 (assuming he is 49 in 2067).  Quamzin's forces were wiped out in 2012, six years or more before he was even born.

[PixelatedShinobi]

I just finished "The Super Dimension Fortress Macross 2036", a shoot-em-up set in the DYRL-Lovers Again timeline starring a grown-up Komilia, and I'd like to shine a spotlight on some of the excellent mechanical design present in it. The "Attack Valkyrie" or "VF-1KAI", a modified VF-1 with new head units, new inbuilt Super Packs, and a really nice proportional facelift from Koichi Ohata, is a standout (and naturally should be, being the lead machine). Komilia's unit (in red) isn't designated as anything in particular by the manual from what I can tell, but the Macross Wiki gives it the designation of VF-1JR (despite having a head more reminiscent of the 1S!). Conversely, her partner Lott's machine (in yellow) has a head more reminiscent of the 1J (and the wiki gives it the designation 1SR, for some reason. I assume this is some fan conjecture, because it's a wiki and they get things wrong all the time.)

A grunt variant also exists, appearing in 2036's sequel, Eternal Love Song. (The wiki calls it the 1AR, for obvious reasons. Still don't know where the "R" came from!)

 

While the U.N. Spacy fleet is primarily comprised of Zentradi ships (since the surviving human population in DYRL's version of Space War I was... small, to say the least), that doesn't mean they have zero presence. The Daedalus II type debuts in 2036 and returns in Eternal Love Song, a ship designed with the express purpose of accelerating to ramming speed and performing a solo Daedalus Attack on enemy ships, in one of the most metal things I've seen this year.

On the opposing side of the Zentradi, spearheaded by a miraculously alive but very beat-up Kamujin/Quamzin/whatever, is a slew of elaborate and very oversized machines to serve as the game's bosses. While the stage minibosses don't tend to feel like they're from Macross (I love that they feel like Thunder Force rejects myself), the bosses are a wild and diverse bunch of Glaug, Queadlunn, and Nousjadeul-Ger evolutions with all sorts of wacky gimmicks.

 

Kamujin's personal machine is a REAL bruiser. Unfortunately, he's one of the easiest bosses in the game to beat if you know good positioning.

 

OUAREHRAHGH GH HPROOOOTOOCULLTAAAAA (dies)

2036 was a fun game! It ranks high in the list of Macross games for me. It's a very solid shmup in addition to having all this great mechanical design, has a fun story that while a bit basic, does have the standout personalities of Komilia, Britai, and Kamujin keeping it engaging. I'd definitely recommend to any fans looking for some new DYRL/II style content.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, PixelatedShinobi said:

I just finished "The Super Dimension Fortress Macross 2036", a shoot-em-up set in the DYRL-Lovers Again timeline starring a grown-up Komilia, and I'd like to shine a spotlight on some of the excellent mechanical design present in it. The "Attack Valkyrie" or "VF-1KAI", a modified VF-1 with new head units, new inbuilt Super Packs, and a really nice proportional facelift from Koichi Ohata, is a standout (and naturally should be, being the lead machine). Komilia's unit (in red) isn't designated as anything in particular by the manual from what I can tell, but the Macross Wiki gives it the designation of VF-1JR (despite having a head more reminiscent of the 1S!). Conversely, her partner Lott's machine (in yellow) has a head more reminiscent of the 1J (and the wiki gives it the designation 1SR, for some reason. I assume this is some fan conjecture, because it's a wiki and they get things wrong all the time.)

A grunt variant also exists, appearing in 2036's sequel, Eternal Love Song. (The wiki calls it the 1AR, for obvious reasons. Still don't know where the "R" came from!)

Oh, I am very familiar with it... it took a very long time and a lot of judicious importing of hobby magazines to get much of any information on the game (and its TRPG nominal sequel Eternal Love Song), since almost all the coverage of it is in hobby magazines for the PC Engine game system.  It was my second-ever big foray into researching and translating Macross publications, kickstarted by my initial project for Macross II: Lovers Again based on oh-so-many inaccuracies in the Palladium Books RPG.  How time flies.  That was more than twenty years ago now.

Incidentally, to answer your question about the designation... the VF-1AR/JR/SR designation comes to us primarily, but not entirely, through Bandai Entertainment Bible No.51.

It is most commonly referred to as the "Attack Valkyrie", but sometimes/rarely as the Refined Valkyrie... which is where the R comes from.  It is a late 2010s/early 2020s-era major upgrade to the VF-1 Valkyrie.  Its boosters are a semi-permanent attachment called the Super Pack II that combines the functions of the Super Pack and Strike Pack.  There are 3 primary variants, same as the base model VF-1.  Komilia's VF-1SR, Lott's VF-1JR, and the grunt model VF-1AR.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, PixelatedShinobi said:

While the U.N. Spacy fleet is primarily comprised of Zentradi ships (since the surviving human population in DYRL's version of Space War I was... small, to say the least), that doesn't mean they have zero presence. The Daedalus II type debuts in 2036 and returns in Eternal Love Song, a ship designed with the express purpose of accelerating to ramming speed and performing a solo Daedalus Attack on enemy ships, in one of the most metal things I've seen this year.

Same as in Macross II.  The UN Spacy had a LOT of Zentradi and Meltrandi defectors on its hands after the First Space War, and so in the Macross II timeline they make use of a great many Zentradi ships that are retrofitted to accommodate Variable Fighters and miclone crews alongside giant Zentradi.  By this point in the timeline, Humanity has started incorporating both Zentran and Meltran overtechnology into their own ships and weapons.  A slow process that will culminate in the post-2054 major revamping of the UN Spacy fleet and the creation of the Macross II designs.

The Daedalus II-class is an Advanced ARMD that's one of the post-war developments.  There are at least 18 of the things kicking around in 2036-2037 including the Daedalus II and the Prometheus II.  They were developed to support extrasolar exploration fleets led by Macross and Megaroad-class ships.

 

1 hour ago, PixelatedShinobi said:

On the opposing side of the Zentradi, spearheaded by a miraculously alive but very beat-up Kamujin/Quamzin/whatever, is a slew of elaborate and very oversized machines to serve as the game's bosses. While the stage minibosses don't tend to feel like they're from Macross (I love that they feel like Thunder Force rejects myself), the bosses are a wild and diverse bunch of Glaug, Queadlunn, and Nousjadeul-Ger evolutions with all sorts of wacky gimmicks.

Yep... they're not meant to be as big as the game represents them, with the exception of Quamzin's personal machine which is a mobile suit that's practically Sazabi-scaled for a Zentradi.  In the main, this game and its TRPG sequel Macross: Eternal Love Song, really cemented the idea that there were a BUNCH more Zentradi designs out there that various fleets had that Earth simply hadn't encountered yet.

The sequel as also the first time any official media depicted the VF-4 transforming or gave it a name (VF-4 Siren).  That original name remains a canonical in-universe nickname of the VF-4's.

The backstory implies that Quamzin survived the events of DYRL? and went on to lead an insurgency in a similar manner to what he did in the TV series, but instead of making his suicide run he legged it into space once he got his hands on a ship.  He comes back to Earth twice... the first time looking to Get Revenge for the defeat of the Boddole Zer fleet by bringing the Neld Main Fleet to Earth.  When THAT doesn't work, he tries to weaponize Earth's culture against a Meltrandi fleet and that backfires too.

Both games help set up/corroborate a plot point in the Macross II: Lovers Again about how Earth comes under semi-regular attack by Zentradi (and Meltrandi) fleets and that the task of fighting them off has become routine enough for the military to become complacent.  By 2092 in that timeline, Earth had successfully fended off at least five Main Fleets from the Zentran and Meltran forces (Moruk Laplamiz's doesn't count, IMO, since Boddole Zer did that) and was being attacked every couple years by smaller straggler forces of rogue Zentran and/or Meltran ships left over from the defeated main fleets.

[JB0]

6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Both games help set up/corroborate a plot point in the Macross II: Lovers Again about how Earth comes under semi-regular attack by Zentradi (and Meltrandi) fleets and that the task of fighting them off has become routine enough for the military to become complacent.  By 2092 in that timeline, Earth had successfully fended off at least five Main Fleets from the Zentran and Meltran forces (Moruk Laplamiz's doesn't count, IMO, since Boddole Zer did that) and was being attacked every couple years by smaller straggler forces of rogue Zentran and/or Meltran ships left over from the defeated main fleets.

And every last one of them was brought to Sol by Kamjin, making him the most annoying troll in Earth history!

...

Or not.

[Seto Kaiba]

9 hours ago, JB0 said:

And every last one of them was brought to Sol by Kamjin, making him the most annoying troll in Earth history!

...

Or not.

Probably not, lol... but he can claim three main fleets and probably dozens of straggler forces up until around 2054.  

[Big s]

18 hours ago, PixelatedShinobi said:

I just finished "The Super Dimension Fortress Macross 2036", a shoot-em-up set in the DYRL-Lovers Again timeline starring a grown-up Komilia, and I'd like to shine a spotlight on some of the excellent mechanical design present in it. The "Attack Valkyrie" or "VF-1KAI", a modified VF-1 with new head units, new inbuilt Super Packs, and a really nice proportional facelift from Koichi Ohata, is a standout (and naturally should be, being the lead machine). Komilia's unit (in red) isn't designated as anything in particular by the manual from what I can tell, but the Macross Wiki gives it the designation of VF-1JR (despite having a head more reminiscent of the 1S!). Conversely, her partner Lott's machine (in yellow) has a head more reminiscent of the 1J (and the wiki gives it the designation 1SR, for some reason. I assume this is some fan conjecture, because it's a wiki and they get things wrong all the time.)

A grunt variant also exists, appearing in 2036's sequel, Eternal Love Song. (The wiki calls it the 1AR, for obvious reasons. Still don't know where the "R" came from!)

 

While the U.N. Spacy fleet is primarily comprised of Zentradi ships (since the surviving human population in DYRL's version of Space War I was... small, to say the least), that doesn't mean they have zero presence. The Daedalus II type debuts in 2036 and returns in Eternal Love Song, a ship designed with the express purpose of accelerating to ramming speed and performing a solo Daedalus Attack on enemy ships, in one of the most metal things I've seen this year.

On the opposing side of the Zentradi, spearheaded by a miraculously alive but very beat-up Kamujin/Quamzin/whatever, is a slew of elaborate and very oversized machines to serve as the game's bosses. While the stage minibosses don't tend to feel like they're from Macross (I love that they feel like Thunder Force rejects myself), the bosses are a wild and diverse bunch of Glaug, Queadlunn, and Nousjadeul-Ger evolutions with all sorts of wacky gimmicks.

 

Kamujin's personal machine is a REAL bruiser. Unfortunately, he's one of the easiest bosses in the game to beat if you know good positioning.

 

OUAREHRAHGH GH HPROOOOTOOCULLTAAAAA (dies)

2036 was a fun game! It ranks high in the list of Macross games for me. It's a very solid shmup in addition to having all this great mechanical design, has a fun story that while a bit basic, does have the standout personalities of Komilia, Britai, and Kamujin keeping it engaging. I'd definitely recommend to any fans looking for some new DYRL/II style content.

I’ve always liked these designs, they sorta had that familiar look to them with some interesting updates to make them still appear in world

[TG Remix]

On 5/7/2025 at 2:27 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

If you think about it, it's not surprising that Zentradi would make up the bulk of anti-government militants.

There were 8 times as many Zentradi as Humans living on Earth after the First Space War, and there's likely been a fairly decent intake of Zentradi over the decades as the New UN Forces encounter and defeat various Zentradi scouting forces and such.  It's been fairly well established that a lot of Zentradi struggle to adapt to a life without the rigor of military discipline and the adrenaline high of combat.  Some get over it in time.  Some turn to substance abuse.  Some join the New UN Forces to find a "healthy" outlet for their urges, and some wind up joining anti-government groups either because they feel discriminated against or simply so they can indulge their designed-in instinct to fight.

It does make me wonder how exponential the process of the mass cloning project bolstered up the human population prior to its ban. It didn't seem like it took them long at all to start, since it was initiated in May 2010. By the 2040's they seem like the majority, and then the Frontier and Delta era subtly play with the concept that a good chunk of everyone has some mixed heritage one way or another. It's always been such an intriguing narrative concept that even for a little bit, Zentradi was the majority of "humanity" during that time, to the point where their technology through ships, mechs, and cloning itself was widely adopted.

 

On 5/7/2025 at 2:27 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

We do see other Zentradi with aggression/anger management issues in Macross 7.  The only hint we have as to why that tapered off is Master File's assertion that there was a gene therapy developed in the 2040s and 2050s that dialed the Zentradi's aggression responses back to Human levels, eliminating the need for the kind of medication that Guld was taking in Macross Plus.

I'm assuming you're referring to the Die Hard episode when Zentradi stormed the building? I was under the assumption that they only acted like that is because of Sivil's presence amplifying their instincts as a Protodevlin, like it was explained later on.

 

On 5/7/2025 at 11:09 PM, PixelatedShinobi said:

The Daedalus II type debuts in 2036 and returns in Eternal Love Song, a ship designed with the express purpose of accelerating to ramming speed and performing a solo Daedalus Attack on enemy ships, in one of the most metal things I've seen this year.

We need more assault/landing ships in this franchise, I still think that there could've been room for a Daedalus successor in Kawamori's Macross if everything didn't heavily lean towards carrier based fleets, exceptions like the pre-Protodevlin Varauta Army and Critical Path Corporation oddballs notwithstanding. 

 

On 5/8/2025 at 1:23 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

It is most commonly referred to as the "Attack Valkyrie", but sometimes/rarely as the Refined Valkyrie... which is where the R comes from.  It is a late 2010s/early 2020s-era major upgrade to the VF-1 Valkyrie.  Its boosters are a semi-permanent attachment called the Super Pack II that combines the functions of the Super Pack and Strike Pack.  There are 3 primary variants, same as the base model VF-1.  Komilia's VF-1SR, Lott's VF-1JR, and the grunt model VF-1AR.

Always appreciated the remodeling of the VF-1s in the II timeline, though it makes me wonder aside from the obvious production reasons, how come it took over 7-8 decades for there to be a proper successor of the VF-1 there?

 

On 5/8/2025 at 1:23 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

By this point in the timeline, Humanity has started incorporating both Zentran and Meltran overtechnology into their own ships and weapons.  A slow process that will culminate in the post-2054 major revamping of the UN Spacy fleet and the creation of the Macross II designs.

iirc here was a large war with a Branch Fleet that caused the revamping? I'm not sure if that's Eternal Love Song's story or another incident with the timeline.

 

On 5/8/2025 at 1:23 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

The Daedalus II-class is an Advanced ARMD that's one of the post-war developments.  There are at least 18 of the things kicking around in 2036-2037 including the Daedalus II and the Prometheus II.  They were developed to support extrasolar exploration fleets led by Macross and Megaroad-class ships.

So there was more Megaroads then the one we see launching in that timeline! Never get a feel of those exploration fleets since II and the PC-Engine games more or less stay in their Solar System bubble. Though I didn't know there was Macross ships made to be flagships for those fleets either, unless you're referring to the Macross Cannons?

Edited May 11 by TG Remix

[PixelatedShinobi]

Been poking around trying to find things - are there any decent references for the YF-29's Super Packs? Been unable to find any on the Macross Mecha Manual. Worst comes to worse I'll find the issue of Chronicle it's in and scan them myself, but was wondering if someone else has done it for me. I've been unable to find the specific issue the Durandal is profiled in too, so anyone who knows which would be immensely helpful.

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, TG Remix said:

It does make me wonder how exponential the process of the mass cloning project bolstered up the human population prior to its ban. It didn't seem like it took them long at all to start, since it was initiated in May 2010. By the 2040's they seem like the majority, and then the Frontier and Delta era subtly play with the concept that a good chunk of everyone has some mixed heritage one way or another. It's always been such an intriguing narrative concept that even for a little bit, Zentradi was the majority of "humanity" during that time, to the point where their technology through ships, mechs, and cloning itself was widely adopted.

We're not told exactly how much cloning was done, but it was apparently done quite extensively... enough that recessive genetic disorders became an issue within a generation, and that they were able to crew emigrant fleets by cloning personnel with essential skills and knowledge.

Macross II: Lovers Again was, I think, the first Macross title to play with the idea of a post-war world where much of the population was at least part-Zentradi.  They seem to be not quite as common in Macross Plus and other later titles, since most of the characters we see are standard Humans, but part-Zentradi aren't in short supply either.  

Humanity adopting some Zentradi technology doesn't seem particularly strange to me, or even connected to the population numbers.  Earth got its hands on a LOT of pristine overtechnology thanks to the end of the war, the defection of a hundred-plus Zentradi ships, and the capture of dozens of Factory Satellites.  It's only natural Humanity would be leveraging superior versions of the technology they've been copying where possible.

 

4 hours ago, TG Remix said:

I'm assuming you're referring to the Die Hard episode when Zentradi stormed the building? I was under the assumption that they only acted like that is because of Sivil's presence amplifying their instincts as a Protodevlin, like it was explained later on.

There's that, yeah.  Though we also see some in Veffidas's backstory where she's basically participating in Zentradi street fights, and Macross 7 Trash also involves the fighting instincts of the Zentradi being hard to control.

 

4 hours ago, TG Remix said:

We need more assault/landing ships in this franchise, I still think that there could've been room for a Daedalus successor in Kawamori's Macross if everything didn't heavily lean towards carrier based fleets, exceptions like the pre-Protodevlin Varauta Army and Critical Path Corporation oddballs notwithstanding. 

I think the guys in Circle FANKY probably agree, since they included the Daedalus II-class in their Battleships of the Galaxy series devoted to main timeline Macross. 

 

4 hours ago, TG Remix said:

Always appreciated the remodeling of the VF-1s in the II timeline, though it makes me wonder aside from the obvious production reasons, how come it took over 7-8 decades for there to be a proper successor of the VF-1 there?

It didn't... there are several intermediate designs.

The DYRL-based timeline leading up to Macross II: Lovers Again has a very different course of events and technological progression.  Quite a few post-war dates and events seen during the Super Dimension Fortress Macross TV series still occur, but occur years after the war instead of months.  For instance, the Megaroad-01 launches in 2014 not 2012, or Komilia being born in 2018.  The pace of overtechnology development is a fair bit slower, and Earth only captures the one factory satellite seen in the TV series.  But it advances nevertheless.  The VF-1 is replaced by the VF-1 Kai Attack Valkyrie in 2018, the VF-4 is introduced in 2014 and upgraded c.2036, and then 2054 sees all the previous gen Valkyrie designs and ships get replaced en masse during a major tech boom following a massive conflict with a Zentradi main fleet out near Pluto.  Earth's capture of a second factory satellite leads to a second overtechnology boom that gives rise to new classes of ship and a new generation of Valkyries and Destroids.  They start with the VF-XX c.2060, then there's the VF-2 in 2072, the VF-2SS in 2081, the VF-2JA in 2086, and the VA-1SS Metal Siren in 2092.

 

4 hours ago, TG Remix said:

iirc here was a large war with a Branch Fleet that caused the revamping? I'm not sure if that's Eternal Love Song's story or another incident with the timeline.

Not the one in Eternal Love Song, a Great Offscreen War in 2054 between the UN Spacy and a Zentradi main fleet that found the emigrant ship Million Star just a short distance from Sol.  The fighting was so intense that a large portion of the Spacy's fleet is lost, but the factory satellite captured leads to the development of a lot of new ships and mecha seen in the OVA.

 

4 hours ago, TG Remix said:

So there was more Megaroads then the one we see launching in that timeline! Never get a feel of those exploration fleets since II and the PC-Engine games more or less stay in their Solar System bubble. Though I didn't know there was Macross ships made to be flagships for those fleets either, unless you're referring to the Macross Cannons?

Yeah.  Macross II's official timeline is the first official mention of the UN Spacy mass-producing Macross-class ships... years before Macross Frontier established the existence of the Macross-class SDFNs.  Exactly why they use a mixture of Macross-class and Megaroad-class ships for emigrant fleet missions is unclear, but they were launching them until 2054 at the very least.  The 2054 Zentradi war is caused when a Macross-class emigrant ship stumbles directly into a Zentradi main fleet.

 

 

1 hour ago, PixelatedShinobi said:

Been poking around trying to find things - are there any decent references for the YF-29's Super Packs? Been unable to find any on the Macross Mecha Manual. Worst comes to worse I'll find the issue of Chronicle it's in and scan them myself, but was wondering if someone else has done it for me. I've been unable to find the specific issue the Durandal is profiled in too, so anyone who knows which would be immensely helpful.

You mean art reference or technical reference?  It has its own section in books like Variable Fighter Designer's Note and Macross Big Encyclopedia.  

The technical writeup is in Macross Chronicle Mechanic Sheet F Movie SMS 04A/B.  The actual writeup is pretty minimal, since the "Super Pack" is really just a small chemical rocket booster, a fuel tank, a laminated shield, and the fold wave projector/missile pods on the wingtips.

[PixelatedShinobi]

18 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

You mean art reference or technical reference?  It has its own section in books like Variable Fighter Designer's Note and Macross Big Encyclopedia.  

The technical writeup is in Macross Chronicle Mechanic Sheet F Movie SMS 04A/B.  The actual writeup is pretty minimal, since the "Super Pack" is really just a small chemical rocket booster, a fuel tank, a laminated shield, and the fold wave projector/missile pods on the wingtips.

I'm looking for art reference specifically. Thank you!

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, PixelatedShinobi said:

I'm looking for art reference specifically. Thank you!

OK, the section in Macross Big Encyclopedia isn't very large... it's basically 2/3 of a page on pg94.

The bit in Variable Fighter Designer's Note is a lot bigger, multiple full pages, starting on page 232 thru page 239.

There's a concept art section for it in Shoji Kawamori Designer's Note starting from pg577 to 581 which has some good detail shots of the internals of the pack.

The movie's Official Complete Book has some decent color reference too.