VFTF1 Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Azriel wrote: QUOTE (VFTF1 @ Oct 20 2008, 11:58 AM) * Figured I'd put a question in the newbie thread rather than risk creating a new thread and getting scolded smile.gif After reading most of the Macross Frontier Technology thread (http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=27033&st=160), I suddenly realized that I would be really interested in discussing Protoculture Technology - more to the point - the EVIL series. Is there a thread (couldn't find it if there is) which goes into detail about the Protodevilin? Their various abilities? The weapon system, design, execution etc etc? Are there any sources for something like that out there? I'd be interested to learn more, because I have always felt that no greater and more truly awe-inspiring and fearsome weapon ever has existed than the Protodevilin. We've done threads about the Supervision/Inspection Army and AFOS, but nothing on the Protodeviln. We've never gone in-depth about them because of the lack of materials. Since the Evil Series got possessed by those other-worldly beings, it's also hard to gauge what the actual Evil Series' capabilities are. Heck, Protoculture locked them away and threw away the key and never looked back. Probably because killing one of those things is near impossible. So - with that minor bit of background... Anyone care to venture any hypothesis? Observations based on what we saw in Macross 7? Maybe the first thing to do would be to recall to mind all of the various Protodevilin and what we "know" about them. This is from wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protodeviln): * Lord Geperunitch (ゲペルニッチ, Geperunitchi?): the leader of the Protodeviln, Geperunitch spends most of Macross 7 -- from his initial appearance in episode 1 -- acting through the human body of fleet advisor Ivano Günter. He aims to implement the Spiritia Farm Project of which he has dreamed: humans and Zentradi will be kept as cattle and harvested for their spiritia, making hunting unnecessary and, more importantly, preventing another Spiritia Black Hole from forming. This plan comes to the fore when he learns that the singing of Anima Spiritia, and in particular the band Fire Bomber, causes humans to regenerate their spiritia: he lures first the Macross 5 and then the Macross 7 fleets to an Earth-like planet (dubbed Lux by the crew of the former fleet), intending to trap and corral them there. Although the planet is ultimately destroyed, he has by this time transported the citizens of Macross 5 back to Varauta IV, intending to capture and use the band to create an endless supply of spiritia. His real Protodeviln form reemerges at the end of the series, but having fed on Anima Spiritia it begins to grow out of control into the very thing Geperunitch feared: another Spiritia Black Hole. o Voice artist: Yo Inoue * Gigile (ギギル, Gigiru?): commander of the Varauta Army, Gigile appears from the first episode and spends most of the series acting through the human body of Captain Autremauer of the Blue Rhinoceros ground force. Uncouth and rebellious, he frequently vexes Geperunitch by violating orders and launching all-out spiritia raids on the Macross 7 fleet. Indeed, it emerges that his real aim -- other than to preserve the joy of the hunt over the Spiritia Farm Project -- is to gather enough spiritia to reawaken not himself or Geperunitch, but another Protodeviln named Sivil, with whom he is in love. This earns the anger of the other Protodeviln, who attempt to destroy him, but when he discovers the power of singing from Fire Bomber's lead singer Basara Nekki, he begins to generate his own spiritia and reawakens in his earlier form, a giant humanoid creature with no human facial features. Such is the intensity of his desire to protect Sivil that he generates an enormously powerful energy field which destroys the planet Lux -- and, to the horror of everyone, himself. o Voice artist: Tomohiro Nishimura * Sivil (シビル, Shibiru?): a female Protodeviln who resembles a vampire, Sivil is awakened in episode 17 by Gigile, but being an undisciplined, free spirit, she ignores the other Protodeviln in order to seek her own supply of spiritia. She becomes fascinated by Basara Nekki, whom she terms Anima Spiritia, and possesses human women in an attempt to get close to him. However, his singing appears to cause her pain (or overwhelming pleasure), driving her away many times, and when she finally manages to kiss him, the energy released sends her into a coma. She is later reawakened by Basara and Gigile's combined singing, but Geperunitch considers her a danger to his plan and seeks to destroy her. Though she never returns Gigile's feelings, she is shocked by his sacrifice in her name, and because of this seeks to protect Basara from the other Protodeviln, and indeed, from her own desire to feed on his spiritia. * The Glavil (グラビル, Gurabiru?): awakening in episode 27, Glavil is an enormous, muscular humanoid creature with tentacles, usually perched on all fours like an animal. He represents pure, untamed fury, crushing everything in his path, and generating enormous energy fields which rip apart all around him. He can also fire intense energy beams that surpass by far the Macross Cannon in power. He increases in size when he absorbs spiritia -- which he can drain from lower life forms as well as humans and Zentradi -- but the energy of Anima Spiritia causes him to shrink, and after several encounters he flees instinctively from it. Lacking any discernible intelligence of his own, he is frequently given instructions by Gavil (see below), the other half of an even more powerful being. * The Gavil (ガビル, Gabiru?): awakened by Gepelnitch in episode 28, Gavil is a human-sized being covered in white fur, with wings like those of an angel. He disdains the innate abilities of his kind in favour of technology, piloting his own Saubergeran and using anti-noise and remote-controlled fighters to combat the effects of Basara's singing. Extremely vain and arrogant, he delights in the "beauty" of destruction -- particularly that created by Glavil, whom he regards as his own "flesh" -- yet he remains loyal to the plans of Lord Geperunitch, though he occasionally questions his leader's methods. He develops an intense hatred of ace pilot Gamlin Kizaki, who humiliates him time and again in battle, most notably on many occasions destroying his vehicle and forcing him to retreat under his own power. * o Gavigula (ガビグラ, Gabigura?): the "true form" of Gavil and Glavil, Gavigula is a mighty Protodeviln which combines the intelligence of one with the might and power of the other. He can produce energy waves which radiate outwards, destroying all in their path, as well as attacking in more conventional ways, crushing anything in his paws. He can easily survive a blast from the Macross Cannon, and the energy of Anima Spiritia has no apparent effect on him. Gavigula is first formed in episode 42. * Valgo (バルゴ, Barugo?): first appearing in episode 31, Valgo, a gigantic armored humanoid with batwings, is one of Geperuniti's most devoted followers, but a bitter rival of Gavil. He is capable of teleporting across space to his desired destination and attacking suddenly; he generates a large number of hideous pink monsters from a cavity in his chest; these creatures swarm over their prey, draining spiritia and growing larger. He is also capable of generating force fields which prevent spacecraft from space-folding, and uses this power to prevent the Macross 7 fleet from escaping the planet Lux, but he is destroyed (along with the planet) by Gigile. * o Natter-Valgo (ナッターバルゴ, Natta barugo?): a mechanical replacement for Valgo after he was destroyed, the Natter-Valgo unit appears in Macross 7: The Galaxy's Calling Me! as backup to Gavil and Gravil. It combines with them (in what Gavil calls the "forbidden technique") to form a creature even bigger and more invulnerable than Gavigula, though the time for which they can remain merged is limited. * Goram (ゴラム, Goramu?) and Zomd (ゾムド, Zomudo?): multi-armed Protodeviln in some ways reminiscent of Vishnu, the male and female twins Goram and Zomd are released by Gepelnitch in episode 47. They operate as two halves of a single entity: working in concert they can fire enormously powerful blasts and teleportation beams, and they complete each other's sentences to boot. As with Glavil, absorbing spiritia causes them to grow, and they can regenerate their bodies even after the destruction wrought by reaction weaponry. However, they are ultimately absorbed by Gepelnitch as he grows out of control, and cease to exist. -------------- With the above serving as a basic framework - maybe it would be good to discuss one Protodevilin at a time? In any case - the aim isn't so much discussing the Protodevilins as characters as much as discussing the EVIL series as a technological achievment, as well as trying to figure out the technological/scientific aspects of the EVIL series. Anybody have any ideas or want to have a go - I'm all ears Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dizman Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 (edited) Oh I dare to enter. If memory serves werent the protodeviln designed by the protoculture as the ultimate weapon, but then were posessed by devil creatures from another dimension (oooooooh) and this led to the ultimate downfall of the protoculture? Edited October 20, 2008 by dizman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 ... this led to the ultimate downfall of the protoculture? Kinda...sorta. The rift that formed the the Republic before the Evil series started grew bigger as they spent their time confronting the Protodeviln. By the time they finished with them, they lost nearly 85% of the population in the Republic. Without much of a Republic left, everything fell apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Oh I dare to enter. If memory serves werent the protodeviln designed by the protoculture as the ultimate weapon, but then were posessed by devil creatures from another dimension (oooooooh) and this led to the ultimate downfall of the protoculture? The PD were ethereal creatures from the Super Dimension that possessed the EVIL series bio-weapons during a malfunction of their SD organs (what powered the weapons of the EVIL series). The EVIL series (IIRC) were developed to deal with the ongoing civil war at the time. Essentially the final escalation of weaponry that became the ultimate demise of their civilization... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zinjo Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 So - with that minor bit of background... Anyone care to venture any hypothesis? Observations based on what we saw in Macross 7? Maybe the first thing to do would be to recall to mind all of the various Protodevilin and what we "know" about them. This is from wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protodeviln): * Lord Geperunitch (ゲペルニッチ, Geperunitchi?): the leader of the Protodeviln, Geperunitch spends most of Macross 7 -- from his initial appearance in episode 1 -- acting through the human body of fleet advisor Ivano Günter. He aims to implement the Spiritia Farm Project of which he has dreamed: humans and Zentradi will be kept as cattle and harvested for their spiritia, making hunting unnecessary and, more importantly, preventing another Spiritia Black Hole from forming. This plan comes to the fore when he learns that the singing of Anima Spiritia, and in particular the band Fire Bomber, causes humans to regenerate their spiritia: he lures first the Macross 5 and then the Macross 7 fleets to an Earth-like planet (dubbed Lux by the crew of the former fleet), intending to trap and corral them there. Although the planet is ultimately destroyed, he has by this time transported the citizens of Macross 5 back to Varauta IV, intending to capture and use the band to create an endless supply of spiritia. His real Protodeviln form reemerges at the end of the series, but having fed on Anima Spiritia it begins to grow out of control into the very thing Geperunitch feared: another Spiritia Black Hole. o Voice artist: Yo Inoue Geperunitch appeared to have similar capabilities to the Vajra capital ships with tentacles and the like. His actual weapon systems is somewhat unclear outside of apparent fleet command capabilities. * Gigile (ギギル, Gigiru?): commander of the Varauta Army, Gigile appears from the first episode and spends most of the series acting through the human body of Captain Autremauer of the Blue Rhinoceros ground force. Uncouth and rebellious, he frequently vexes Geperunitch by violating orders and launching all-out spiritia raids on the Macross 7 fleet. Indeed, it emerges that his real aim -- other than to preserve the joy of the hunt over the Spiritia Farm Project -- is to gather enough spiritia to reawaken not himself or Geperunitch, but another Protodeviln named Sivil, with whom he is in love. This earns the anger of the other Protodeviln, who attempt to destroy him, but when he discovers the power of singing from Fire Bomber's lead singer Basara Nekki, he begins to generate his own spiritia and reawakens in his earlier form, a giant humanoid creature with no human facial features. Such is the intensity of his desire to protect Sivil that he generates an enormously powerful energy field which destroys the planet Lux -- and, to the horror of everyone, himself. o Voice artist: Tomohiro Nishimura Gigile appears to be a sub-commander with a built in dimension eater weapon. * Sivil (シビル, Shibiru?): a female Protodeviln who resembles a vampire, Sivil is awakened in episode 17 by Gigile, but being an undisciplined, free spirit, she ignores the other Protodeviln in order to seek her own supply of spiritia. She becomes fascinated by Basara Nekki, whom she terms Anima Spiritia, and possesses human women in an attempt to get close to him. However, his singing appears to cause her pain (or overwhelming pleasure), driving her away many times, and when she finally manages to kiss him, the energy released sends her into a coma. She is later reawakened by Basara and Gigile's combined singing, but Geperunitch considers her a danger to his plan and seeks to destroy her. Though she never returns Gigile's feelings, she is shocked by his sacrifice in her name, and because of this seeks to protect Basara from the other Protodeviln, and indeed, from her own desire to feed on his spiritia. Sivil is the most obvious (to me anyway), a S&D unit. She is capable of infiltration as well as anti-fighter capabilities. * The Glavil (グラビル, Gurabiru?): awakening in episode 27, Glavil is an enormous, muscular humanoid creature with tentacles, usually perched on all fours like an animal. He represents pure, untamed fury, crushing everything in his path, and generating enormous energy fields which rip apart all around him. He can also fire intense energy beams that surpass by far the Macross Cannon in power. He increases in size when he absorbs spiritia -- which he can drain from lower life forms as well as humans and Zentradi -- but the energy of Anima Spiritia causes him to shrink, and after several encounters he flees instinctively from it. Lacking any discernible intelligence of his own, he is frequently given instructions by Gavil (see below), the other half of an even more powerful being. * The Gavil (ガビル, Gabiru?): awakened by Gepelnitch in episode 28, Gavil is a human-sized being covered in white fur, with wings like those of an angel. He disdains the innate abilities of his kind in favour of technology, piloting his own Saubergeran and using anti-noise and remote-controlled fighters to combat the effects of Basara's singing. Extremely vain and arrogant, he delights in the "beauty" of destruction -- particularly that created by Glavil, whom he regards as his own "flesh" -- yet he remains loyal to the plans of Lord Geperunitch, though he occasionally questions his leader's methods. He develops an intense hatred of ace pilot Gamlin Kizaki, who humiliates him time and again in battle, most notably on many occasions destroying his vehicle and forcing him to retreat under his own power. * o Gavigula (ガビグラ, Gabigura?): the "true form" of Gavil and Glavil, Gavigula is a mighty Protodeviln which combines the intelligence of one with the might and power of the other. He can produce energy waves which radiate outwards, destroying all in their path, as well as attacking in more conventional ways, crushing anything in his paws. He can easily survive a blast from the Macross Cannon, and the energy of Anima Spiritia has no apparent effect on him. Gavigula is first formed in episode 42. These two appear to be an anti-capital ship team. Glavil seems to be the scout & targetting, while Gavil is the big guns and large enough to take on capital ships. * Valgo (バルゴ, Barugo?): first appearing in episode 31, Valgo, a gigantic armored humanoid with batwings, is one of Geperuniti's most devoted followers, but a bitter rival of Gavil. He is capable of teleporting across space to his desired destination and attacking suddenly; he generates a large number of hideous pink monsters from a cavity in his chest; these creatures swarm over their prey, draining spiritia and growing larger. He is also capable of generating force fields which prevent spacecraft from space-folding, and uses this power to prevent the Macross 7 fleet from escaping the planet Lux, but he is destroyed (along with the planet) by Gigile. Valgo strikes me as a strike team type of unit. Able to fold in and attack with swarming sub-units and then folding out once the damage is done. * o Natter-Valgo (ナッターバルゴ, Natta barugo?): a mechanical replacement for Valgo after he was destroyed, the Natter-Valgo unit appears in Macross 7: The Galaxy's Calling Me! as backup to Gavil and Gravil. It combines with them (in what Gavil calls the "forbidden technique") to form a creature even bigger and more invulnerable than Gavigula, though the time for which they can remain merged is limited. Not sure the purpose of this unit outside of a plot device to bring back Valgo to the show... * Goram (ゴラム, Goramu?) and Zomd (ゾムド, Zomudo?): multi-armed Protodeviln in some ways reminiscent of Vishnu, the male and female twins Goram and Zomd are released by Gepelnitch in episode 47. They operate as two halves of a single entity: working in concert they can fire enormously powerful blasts and teleportation beams, and they complete each other's sentences to boot. As with Glavil, absorbing spiritia causes them to grow, and they can regenerate their bodies even after the destruction wrought by reaction weaponry. However, they are ultimately absorbed by Gepelnitch as he grows out of control, and cease to exist. These two remind me of a tandem artillery team capable of bombarding an enemy position with superior firepower. -------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 The latest issue of Macross Chronicle has a whole page on the protodeviln...give me some time to take a good, thorough look-see at the info there, and we'll see if there's anything new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renato Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Did anyone else think that the Dimension Eater from Mac F was reminiscent of Gigil's destruction of Planet Lux? I remember hearing some bridge operatr or somebody say that "the space in front of us is disappearing", so it's possible that since the Protodeviln have the ability to fold themselves across the galaxy, they have the ability to fold other stuff too (like that reaction bomb in the cave inside the ice planet). Maybe ILA reverse-engineered some Evil Series technology? (It wouldn't be the first time: In "Mylene Beat", Col. Barton and that pedo-lesbian manager person team up to make their own Evil series, or something... I'd like to think that's not really canon, though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VFTF1 Posted October 21, 2008 Author Share Posted October 21, 2008 The latest issue of Macross Chronicle has a whole page on the protodeviln...give me some time to take a good, thorough look-see at the info there, and we'll see if there's anything new. Well? Where is it? Work faster! *Whip!* Anyways - I wonder to myself: why didn't the UNS and NUNS follow up and also dable in bio-engineering? Clearly the humans seem to rely on mecha? Is this because we don't like the thought of our own bodies say growing missiles or forming pentagrams between our finger nails - or is it too difficult to do? Protoculture technology in general seemed far more bio-engineering whereas we humans have stuck to mechanical engineering: this has always been a point of interest to me. No matter how good the interaction between pilot and Valkyrie or Capital Ship and crew - wouldn't a living being who was the equivalent in power of a capital ship have greater capacities? On that note - why was Glavil not very intelligent? Was there too much fear that if he were more independent he could use his power for himself; and this way someone needed to basically steer him? Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3v Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Protoculture technology in general seemed far more bio-engineering whereas we humans have stuck to mechanical engineering: this has always been a point of interest to me. Actually, the protoculture seemed to be adept at both. They were capable of amazing feats of bioengineering and were also master builders, able to create spacecraft and weapons that were combat worthy for thousands of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Well? Where is it? Work faster! *Whip!* Patience, patience...I'm currently still working on Miss D.J., and the Nyan Tra liner notes, AND the Long Range Emigration Fleet page from Macross Chronicle... On that note - why was Glavil not very intelligent? Was there too much fear that if he were more independent he could use his power for himself; and this way someone needed to basically steer him? Pete The Beauty of Halfwitism! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renato Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 (edited) Well? Where is it? Work faster! *Whip!* Anyways - I wonder to myself: why didn't the UNS and NUNS follow up and also dable in bio-engineering? Clearly the humans seem to rely on mecha? Is this because we don't like the thought of our own bodies say growing missiles or forming pentagrams between our finger nails - or is it too difficult to do? Protoculture technology in general seemed far more bio-engineering whereas we humans have stuck to mechanical engineering: this has always been a point of interest to me. No matter how good the interaction between pilot and Valkyrie or Capital Ship and crew - wouldn't a living being who was the equivalent in power of a capital ship have greater capacities? Pete Well, the Protoculture were much more advanced than the humans ever were, despite what Grace thinks. The humans were beginning to mess around with cybernetics onboard the Galaxy, after all, so give them a few more years. Plus, it would be nice to think that they learned a lesson from the destruction of the Protoculture not to play around too much with that which cannot be controlled. EDIT -- And the humans did make one more Evil series being, see my last post. Edited October 22, 2008 by Renato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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