mikeszekely Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I'll just stay real quiet about my Sony TV, Phillips Pronto remote, and Paradigm Reference speakers... I'd be more jealous if I knew what kind of Sony TV. For all I know, you're talking about a 25-year old 19" mono sound unit. And I personally like the Harmony series of remotes better than the Prontos. They have a cleaner interface and remotes that look like remotes and not video games. I am a huge fan of Paradigm speakers, though. If I wasn't living in an apartment where neighbors are a concern, I'd have probably sprung for a set by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I'd be more jealous if I knew what kind of Sony TV. For all I know, you're talking about a 25-year old 19" mono sound unit. And I personally like the Harmony series of remotes better than the Prontos. They have a cleaner interface and remotes that look like remotes and not video games. I am a huge fan of Paradigm speakers, though. If I wasn't living in an apartment where neighbors are a concern, I'd have probably sprung for a set by now. true true, at the time I bought my samsung, it got better reviews than any sony, so I don't really care. I'm just jealous of the speakers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 (edited) Amazon has the 360 HD-DVD add-on on sale for 130 bucks with free shipping: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JHO4L..._pr_product_top UPDATE: sale over. Edited December 5, 2007 by eugimon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myk Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 AAAaaaargh!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 AAAaaaargh!!!! looks like Toys R Us is having the same sale, but they're sold out on their website. Might want to check a local store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLoneWolf Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 AAAaaaargh!!!! I wouldn't sweat it Theoretically, using the HD-DVD add on drive should make your 360 get even hotter since it draws its power from the 360 and not some other power outlet. Plus, it's not a small drive so you won't be saving much shelf space either, might as well get a dedicated $100 HD-DVD player. The only reason I'd consider getting the 360 HD-DVD drive would be to connect it to my pc, but right now I don't have any reason too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 The 360's HD DVD drive has it's own AC power, plus it's size is actually very small. You can set it next to your 360 or somewhere else and it really doesn't take up that much space. As for making your 360 run hotter that is pretty much untrue. My 360 is actually noticeably cooler and quieter running HD movies than it is playing games... mostly because it's internal DVD drive is not running. For what it's worth the Xbox'es HD DVD drive is probably the cheapest "best" HD DVD player you can get provided you already own a 360. It's cheap, it piggybacks the 360 and takes advantage of the 360's internet connection and menu system for updates to movies. Compared to my friend's Toshiba standalone HD DVD player I'm glad mine is the Xbox unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myk Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 For what it's worth the Xbox'es HD DVD drive is probably the cheapest "best" HD DVD player you can get provided you already own a 360. It's cheap, it piggybacks the 360 and takes advantage of the 360's internet connection and menu system for updates to movies. Compared to my friend's Toshiba standalone HD DVD player I'm glad mine is the Xbox unit. AAAaaaargh!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeszekely Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 AAAaaaargh!!! Relax. If stand alone players keep dropping as fast as they are, the 360's HD-DVD drive will have to drop to stay competitive. And if not, check Gamestop. I bought a used one there for $130, but if you have an Edge card, you get 15% off. That's how I got mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myk Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Lol, ah whatever. I'm still not fond of the idea of spending $25 to $40 for a new HD/BLU release when I could pick it up for $15 on old-tech format anyway. Picking up Die Hard and Spiderman was pain-ful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeszekely Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Lol, ah whatever. I'm still not fond of the idea of spending $25 to $40 for a new HD/BLU release when I could pick it up for $15 on old-tech format anyway. Picking up Die Hard and Spiderman was pain-ful... Don't you have any used sellers? Out here, we have a place called CD Warehouse. Their high-def section's getting pretty big, and they always charge $15 for regular movies, and $50 for boxed sets. Aside from 300, TMNT, and the freebies from the Blu-ray offer, I've bought my entire collection there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uxi Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 I'm more than happy to spend $25-30 for a new HD release that brings out the glory of my 60" SXRD and 7.1 high def audio out of my Denon. $30+ I have to really want it... if the value is there, I'm willing to pay it. For most Fox Blu-ray and HDDVD combos, that's not the case but I have no probably at all spending $20-30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted December 6, 2007 Author Share Posted December 6, 2007 I buy almost all of my HD media off of Amazon lately. They routinely have an item for $20 that the local stores have for $25-$30. Plus no sales tax and if I order two movies at a time you get the free slow boat shipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandit29 Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 (edited) If it is a movie I really like I don't mind spending 25-30. Anymore than that though, I'll wait. Most of my Blu-rays I've bought through some kind of sale(buy one get,one free or mail away etc.) Amazon seems to have the best deals. The MSRPs still need to come down though. Who wants to pay(or see lol) Delta Farce for 34.99? Sin City and Batman Begins on Blu-ray where are u? Edited December 6, 2007 by dejr8bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted December 6, 2007 Author Share Posted December 6, 2007 Sin City will probably look terrible on HD IMHO. The movie just has all these filters and grain in it combined with a total lack of color (the big thing HD does really well)... I can't imagine a 1080p Blu Ray of it will be that big of an upgrade from the regular upconverted DVD. I would expect Sin City to look like Sleepy Hollow... all washed out, grainy and faded. My question: Indiana Jones on Blu Ray where are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marimba Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Ok, I'm just excited because I just got new speakers... Paradigm millenia 200 for the fronts, milennia 20 for the center, millenia ADP for the rear, and a PS1000 sub. All being driven by my old school Denon AVR 5700, Sony DVP ns77 (I'll buy a HD DVD or Blu-ray player once the "format war" is decided), Sony 42" 3 LCD TV, (no, not one of the 1080P ones, it only does 720p and 1080i. I went round and round about this TV, but finally bought it because although 1080P IS available for HD DVD and Blu-ray players, there does not seem to be a standard for 1080P Television broadcasts) and my trusty old Phillips Pronto TSU 2000. It's a bit of a hodge podge as I have to upgrade bit by bit. While I do watch a lot of anime, my real love is drum and bugle corps. I've been in heaven since DCI has been issuing DVD releases of the finals shows. The system allows me to get closer to the performances. I've just recently begun teaching front ensemble for a new start up corps in Austin, and it's great to get to listen to a real hornline again. Anyway, I hope to get all Rotel electronics over the next year or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 I buy almost all of my HD media off of Amazon lately. They routinely have an item for $20 that the local stores have for $25-$30. Plus no sales tax and if I order two movies at a time you get the free slow boat shipping. I love amazon. I paid for the Prime upgrade and considering how much I buy, it has already paid for itself. And yeah, not paying sales tax is awesome... 'specially out here in california. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uxi Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Frys has just about been able to meet or improve on just about any Amazon price out there, even before you consider shipping & handline, most of the time. Not everyone has one local, however. Other times I've used Target and Best Buy when I have a Target ad handy for them to price match. That said, I have purchased a couple titles off amazon (Buy 1 Get 1 ) and got Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence on Blu-ray (7.1ch lossless audio goodness!) on the web. Most of my buying has been limited to new releases, though, since I have been rebuying very few catalog titles I already own on DVD (Pearl Harbor, Spidey 1, and BlackHawk Down as some of the few that come to mind). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandit29 Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Jin-Roh on Blu-ray review is up at animeondvd.com. Sounds promising just not worth 80.00 US.. http://www.animeondvd.com/reviews2/disc_reviews/6854.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uxi Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Michael Bay redux: I see every frame of my films over a hundred times before it is ever released. I know the lighting conditions I shot it and the result on the DI. I know the range. I know what the final product should look like - Blu Ray suits my films better. http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forum/showt...=607&page=4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted December 6, 2007 Author Share Posted December 6, 2007 Which is pretty much bullshit. Format means nothing, it's all in the encoding and how the film is compressed for video. For someone who supposedly "knows a lot" Bay sure is an idiot when it comes to his own craft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Michael Bay redux: http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forum/showt...=607&page=4 he also thinks the current HD war is all because of the evil manipulations of microsoft so that they can proceed with a secret digital download agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uxi Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Which is pretty much bullshit. Format means nothing, it's all in the encoding and how the film is compressed for video. For someone who supposedly "knows a lot" Bay sure is an idiot when it comes to his own craft. Bold words. I wouldn't presume to challenge Michael Bay for knowing how his own films should look and which home video presentation brings them closer... As far as format, Blu-ray has a massive advantage in bandwidth and capacity. The latter can be dealt with relatively easy (and Toshiba is sure trying with it's 51GB discs). The bandwidth issue is far stickier and Toshiba's proposals (1.5x on their drives) are untested at best an unviable at worst. Effectively, HDDVD's limits mean out of the high definition standard of: 1) 16:9 AR 2) PiP/IME 3) Lossless audio you only get 2 out of the 3. They can do a 2.35:1 AR movie and give you the other two (even then it's usually tight) but you'll never get all 3. The straight HDDVD conversion from Warner were leaving 20GB unused on the disc and no 20Mbps free in the total MUX... HDDVD has had the whole year with PiP/IME but that ends in the beginning of the year and HDDVD has still lost near 50 consecutive weeks of sales, more often at 1/3 to 1/2 than not and their small lead in dedicated players is dwarved by the influx of PS3 owners versus 360 add-on owners... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted December 6, 2007 Author Share Posted December 6, 2007 Format is format, encode is encode. Bay is just bitching because he has an agenda. Everything has to be cut down to fit. What Bay sees on his Flint running a straight feed to his reference monitor is not possible with consumer grade blu ray and hd dvd. It all has to be encoded, compressed and put on a disc... and when a studio releases dual format they use the exact same video on both. Every single dual format disc on the market runs the exact same encoding using the exact same codec. Play a movie like Road Warrior that is on both Blu Ray and HD DVD on a studio reference monitor using the same connections at the same resolution and the pictures will look exactly the same. Exactly. Happy Feet on either format looks exactly the same as well. They all do. Every dual format release... even the ones that rank 5 stars... which shows us that format means nothing, it's all about the encoding. One format having a supposed specs advantage means nothing if they don't capitalize on it, which they rarely do. Michael Bay's movies if released on Blu Ray would look exactly the same and use the exact same codec as they do on HD DVD. His studio is not going to cut two different runs of his crap just to "take advantage" of one format's supposed superior angles. It's just not done. If and when Bay gets his Blu Ray release it will look just like the HD DVD release. And if and when all the Blu Ray movies get ported to HD DVD they will also be exactly the same. For Bay to mouth off and claim that his movies would automatically look better on Blu Ray is like me saying my driving would automatically be better if I drove a Porsche rather than a BMW. The car does not decide the driver just as the format does not decide the encode. "Available space" is more than ample in both formats, it all comes down to how much "bonus" junk they glut the disc with. Edit: the whole point I'm trying to make is that this whole "issue" of which format is "superior" is a matter of opinion and not fact. BOTH formats have excellent 5 star feature laden releases and both have total dogs... and most of that difference has to do more with how much effort the studio put into their release rather than some technical specs related limitations. IMHO it just looks bad for directors to blame formats for problems that are not really the format's fault. Plus this is Michael Bay we are talking about... the guy obviously has a serious chip on his shoulder over this whole thing and he is the LAST person I expect to be impartial about HD media formats. If he is so pissed off then perhaps he should have paid attention the first time around and been involved in the process and had greater creative control over "his" art when it's released on video like many top flight directors do. Any "arguments" that man puts forward are sour grapes in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oihan Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 (edited) Format is format, encode is encode. Bay is just battying because he has an agenda. Everything has to be cut down to fit. What Bay sees on his Flint running a straight feed to his reference monitor is not possible with consumer grade blu ray and hd dvd. It all has to be encoded, compressed and put on a disc... and when a studio releases dual format they use the exact same video on both. Every single dual format disc on the market runs the exact same encoding using the exact same codec. Play a movie like Road Warrior that is on both Blu Ray and HD DVD on a studio reference monitor using the same connections at the same resolution and the pictures will look exactly the same. Exactly. Happy Feet on either format looks exactly the same as well. They all do. Every dual format release... even the ones that rank 5 stars... which shows us that format means nothing, it's all about the encoding. One format having a supposed specs advantage means nothing if they don't capitalize on it, which they rarely do. Michael Bay's movies if released on Blu Ray would look exactly the same and use the exact same codec as they do on HD DVD. His studio is not going to cut two different runs of his crap just to "take advantage" of one format's supposed superior angles. It's just not done. If and when Bay gets his Blu Ray release it will look just like the HD DVD release. And if and when all the Blu Ray movies get ported to HD DVD they will also be exactly the same. For Bay to mouth off and claim that his movies would automatically look better on Blu Ray is like me saying my driving would automatically be better if I drove a Porsche rather than a BMW. The car does not decide the driver just as the format does not decide the encode. "Available space" is more than ample in both formats, it all comes down to how much "bonus" junk they glut the disc with. Edit: the whole point I'm trying to make is that this whole "issue" of which format is "superior" is a matter of opinion and not fact. BOTH formats have excellent 5 star feature laden releases and both have total dogs... and most of that difference has to do more with how much effort the studio put into their release rather than some technical specs related limitations. IMHO it just looks bad for directors to blame formats for problems that are not really the format's fault. Plus this is Michael Bay we are talking about... the guy obviously has a serious chip on his shoulder over this whole thing and he is the LAST person I expect to be impartial about HD media formats. If he is so pissed off then perhaps he should have paid attention the first time around and been involved in the process and had greater creative control over "his" art when it's released on video like many top flight directors do. Any "arguments" that man puts forward are sour grapes in my eyes. I agree completely; couldn't have said it better myself. Edited December 7, 2007 by Oihan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 I swear I have a VHS or two that actually look better than the DVD I bought later--due to really sucky encoding and someone apparently not understanding "framing" and "widescreen". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uxi Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 the whole point I'm trying to make is that this whole "issue" of which format is "superior" is a matter of opinion and not fact. BOTH formats have excellent 5 star feature laden releases and both have total dogs... and most of that difference has to do more with how much effort the studio put into their release rather than some technical specs related limitations. It's simply undeniable that HDDVD is more limited than Blu-ray in it's technical capabilities. This is manifest in things like the usage of lossless audio, which not everyone appreciates (and indeed not everyone can without high dollar equipment, a room with the right acoustic properties, and an ear for it), which is Blu-ray uses in an overwhelmingly superior percentage than HD DVD. The greater capabilities of Blu-ray over HDDVD are not as instantly obvious as DVD had over VHS difference, for example, but the greater capabilities in bandwidth and capacity are indeed on Blu-ray's side and they're not trivial. That is most definitely a format issue. For perspective, Blu-ray's benefits over HDDVD are similar to HDDVD's own benefits over XBL HD downloads (720p, legacy audio, etc etc). The ultimate limitations of HDDVD are far well enough beyond DVD that I wouldn't be disapointed if it won, but for the potential we will have with a Blu-ray victory. Remember, DVD had reached it's boundaries the day it was released. HDDVD has already bumped those boundaries. Blu-ray has yet to reach it's full potential yet has consistently higher ratings on the most well known HD Review sites out there, from High Def Digest to Home Theater Forum to DVDTalk. I can whip out the statistics that other folks have dug up.... my purpose isn't to fight the format war here (and the thread on that site is as representative as you'll find anywhere from AVS Forum on with most of the same players), but to correct the fallacy that claims Blu-ray is not technically superior to HDDVD. Qualitatively, one can well say the benefits aren't necessary, etc or that the cheaper prices of HDDVD counterbalance those technical advantages... but there is simply not quantitative way to dispute that technical superiority. That said, I agree 100% that format potential needs good execution. There has been plenty of laziness and craziness on both sides from Universal's glut of subpar mass releases to some of Fox's work, to say nothing of the launch wave of Blu-ray releases. Like I said, not here to fight the format war.... anyone else can have the last word on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share Posted December 7, 2007 And my point was that technical superiority means nothing if the end result looks exactly the same. You can have a good driver in a four banger grocery getter outrun a crap driver in a Viper. Comparing the possibilities does not directly correlate to the reality of how the technology is used. When a big first run movie comes out they dump everything they can into it to give it the best possible transfer they can muster. The lack of "lossless" audio on the transformers movie was due to them jamming all that useless bonus crap on the disc. They made a judgment call to do that... Bay may or may not have been a part of that (my guess is not). The actual act of encoding of the movie is what would have caused any changes in light level or picture quality between the studio master and the MPEG4 codec encoding, not the media it is presented on. That movie would have had the same video encode if it was Blu Ray or HD DVD because the movie was most likely encoded before the studio decided to side with HD DVD exclusivity. My entire line is not about formats but about Michael Bay's immature and spited comments about things he probably doesn't understand. Just because the guy makes movies does not make him knowledgeable about the technical specifics of them. Hell, every director I've ever met or worked for was "technically handicapped" to the point that people had to explain things to them. This whole "Blu Ray vs. HD DVD" thing is a Hollywood buddies club fight and most of the vocal supporters of both formats are as such because they know someone who knows someone who told them that they really should support this format. I mean hell George Lucas was so married to Laserdisc that it took us how long to get Star Wars on DVD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugimon Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 it should be noted that it was an HD-DVD title that won the best audio award at the high-def disc awards: http://www.homemediamagazine.com/news/html...rticle_id=11663 And I gotta agree with JsARCLIGHT, it doesn't matter which format is superior if the dual format war continues. While shops like disney that ONLY do blu-ray may go all out to make a superior blu-ray disc, companies like warner who release on both formats aren't going to master 2 seperate and unique versions, they'll make one and slap some extras on as appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share Posted December 7, 2007 That is another angle that bugs me... when people say that something that was released on one format "would be so much better" on the other format. We'll never know that and to say as much is opinion or a guess. It's like someone saying the Mustang would have been so much better if Chevy made it and then listing the technical reasons why the Chevy small block is "superior" as their proof. Specs are specs and they are all well and good if you are measuring to see who's boat is bigger... but at the end of the day it's what you do with that boat that counts. IMHO Michael Bay should be tracking down the studio stooge that encoded his movie rather than blasting the format it's on... if you ask me that is a sign of someone with an agenda to push and not a legitimate issue to air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaijin Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 he also thinks the current HD war is all because of the evil manipulations of microsoft so that they can proceed with a secret digital download agenda. That's not really too far off base. MS only supports HD DVD for their VC1 encoder and the fact that any gains by the BDA will benefit the PS3 and Sony. Hence the constant backing whenever HD DVD is ready to cave. Heck, Toshiba was ready to give in on the ONE format and not even have the war when the two camps were negotiating and MS convinced them otherwise. They really don't care which one wins, as long as in the end, XBOX Live video downloads will one day take over iTunes and the optical home disc market. They kill 2 birds with little stones this way. The enemy of my enemy is my friend...until I stab him in the back . Bay is...well...at least he likes Blu-ray. I guess that's something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JsARCLIGHT Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share Posted December 8, 2007 An interesting article on all the audio mumbo jumbo: "Lossless" versus Uncompressed Which kind of goes with what I've always heard, and what I've always heard being "there is no real difference" and that bitrate matters more than how the audio is actually encoded or what format it's on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunbuster Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 That's not really too far off base. MS only supports HD DVD for their VC1 encoder and the fact that any gains by the BDA will benefit the PS3 and Sony. Blu-ray also uses VC1 as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaijin Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Blu-ray also uses VC1 as well Yes but besides Warner, not many studios use it on BD. MS wanted the BDA to make VC1 the "Standard" that most studios use. You see a lot of HD DVD's encoded with VC1 however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uxi Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Blu-ray also uses VC1 as well Only from a Warner, a studio that has habitually left 20+ GB unused on their 50GB dual layer discs (see the original release of Superman Returns for example) and a reused encode that doesn't take advantage of the superiority of the Blu-ray format (which goes to jsarclight's point). But that's neither here nor there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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