Mekton For Macross

[Grayson72]

I agree that in person is more instant fun.   Problem is all most people want to play stuff that is uncool or just different version of the same thing.  How many FRPG do people really need?

Those that want to do something else or genre specfic have to go online.   Then there are those like me who could possibly round up a few people but working a rotating schedule means I'd miss 50% of the games.

401955[/snapback]

Ok I give what's FRPG?

402015[/snapback]

Fantasy Role Playing Game such as Dungeons & Dragons.

402016[/snapback]

cool thanks, I thought it might be Friendly role playing game and what fun would that be.

"would you like some more tea?" "ok do a politeness roll on a d6 and roll for your pouring skill on a d20"

LOL

[Dax415]

Friendly Role Playing Game....

Gaming in person is definately more fun, soda, pizza, etc. I remember before discovering Macross my friends and I played Robotech (it was when it first came out). As kids it was fun, especially when the GM had a white dice that rolled an unusual amount of 20s. My friend Danny kept getting his helmet blown off as a cyclone rider. What was funny is he used to decorate his character sheet with pics of cyclones and for some reason he kept getting his helmet blown right off. He used to cry like a little girl and then tear off his decorations each time. At this point we would try and get him to stop with promises of a new helmet, but it never worked. Instead his dad would kick us all out, with the exception of him and his two brothers. His oldest brother Chris ran the games and eventually had to calm him down while keeping a straight face. Its been more than 18 years and we still give him sh*t for it.

[Roy Focker]

Hey I played Friendly Roleplaying for eight years. I had a blast!

AIM is good subtitute in the fact that it's instant dice action but you can't really use all use a hex map that way.

[Cruel Angel's Thesis]

Thats true we had to rely on our imagination for the hex map, actually most of our games we all ran was that way, the only time we even came close to actually using a hex map is Mekton, but thats about it, any other games we mostly used our minds to contrust what was going on. We used some minatures a few times, but we usually had limited space and couldn't.

We did have a idea of using a hex map program, but in the mekton game we never used it, we ran it in our minds so i just had to figure the distance for them and went that way. Besides for Mekton you don't need a hex map, when i was in the Mekton tournament at DDC, we used tape measures to do distance and it worked out all right. I think the Core book talks about it too, works great when you don't have a hex map the size of your living room.

Cruel Angel's Thesis

Edited May 25, 2006 by Cruel Angel's Thesis

[Roy Focker]

True a hex map or just a table top the visual aids of seeing where you and enemies are is very handy with a mecha game in motion.

I'm eager for plus to arrive. I'll found or scan pics already.

[Cruel Angel's Thesis]

Well while you wait for Plus you can always head over to the Talsorian web site and check out the erratta for Mekton and new things they have added.

http://www.talsorian.com/articles.shtml

The guys who held the ability to continue Mekton for maybe a week have done things as well. They had were prevented since Pondsmith was worried they would be taken apart by us. they have downloads for the character sheets and a mini mekton campaign for War of the Worlds.

http://www.atomicrocketgames.com/

Virtual Mekton was created on the MZML and has other official rules not on the Talsorian web site, Benjamin Wright was always having to add addition rules and systems, we kept wanting to do this and that. Also it has the unofficial but offical Advanced Transformation cost table, then again i think MektonZeta.com has it as well. But this also has the the up to date Mekton Techinical System Abuse Catalougue (near the bottom)

http://members.tripod.com/virtualmekton/

You already know about MektonZeta.com and they have the offical rules for hardpoints.

For additional rules you might want to check out getting your hands on the Ref Screen, the Tactial Display, it has targeting computer (left out of Plus) and the movie rules for running large combat. Mekton Wars 1: Invasion Terra has the Mass Combat system, where you have Mekton, Corvette and Starship scale units all slugging it out, it can handle well over 400 units in combat. It also contain rules for fortications (after all the heros keep those mechs somewhere if they aren't in space. I have just about every Mekton book, 'cept for the White Box which is supposely a hallucation of Pondsmith.

Cruel Angel's Thesis

[yellowlightman]

I have just about every Mekton book, 'cept for the White Box which is supposely a hallucation of Pondsmith.

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What do you mean?

[Roy Focker]

http://www.mektonzeta.com/history.php

See the first entry.

[Cruel Angel's Thesis]

Whitebox Mekton and the planned Whitebox II are kinda running jokes. Not sure why they are the jokes they are. The current story is Whitebox and the proposed Whitebox II were just hallucations, he was having a bad fever the whole time. I think if you actually wrote to Talsorian they might give you the whole story.

Cruel Angel's Thesis

[Awacs]

I'd always figured that the White Box was a tongue in cheek reference to the first release of what became the Dungeons and Dragons rules many, many years ago. I'm fairly sure that was first released in a white box back in the day.

That's the way I understand the joke. But I could be way off base.

Karl

[Roy Focker]

Okay I ordered Mekzon Z on a Thursday cheapest shipping. The next day the seller tell he'll ship later that day. Next week Saturday I get the book packaged in box. An 8 day wait.

That same day I order Plus from another on Amazon. I pick the faster shipping method. I get the book today. A 7 day weight not only that the seller uses a bubble wrap envelope. So of course my retard mail man shoves it my little hole (gee that sound sexual). Two feet away are large box for the mail man to use for over sized items.

I don't get it I select better shipping and it takes just a long and I get cheaper packing material. WTF is up with that.

Well It nice it's a big book. I was expecting it soon. Working this weekend starting in a hour so I really wont have a chance to read it until the weekend is over. The 20 second flip through looks good so far.

[Roy Focker]

Had another look and a quick read of the entire book before I tried a little bit of creation.

I think the game system is well suited for Mecha. I think the design system is some suited for techno-freaks and math majors. I know the weight and ablilities of Macross Mecha. Selecting the most approriate servo, weapon damage, BV, etc. is simple enough but getting to the part where I'm gonna have to make sure there is enough space and the fact I'm pretty sure weight will greatly exceeded the establish Macross weights. This will result in alot of boring this doing space and weight efficency. I had a A in the Last math class I took in college. Math a daily part of my job. I just don't like it that much.

I'm sure playing with the design system creating ones design well keeping true the systems rules is part of the fun but for me not about the designing. I think my conversions will be what fits best towards the animation according to my education opinion. My stats will just be stats and not a work sheet how things were made. Yeah I'll use my calculator on parts I'll be fudging some of the steps. If anyone in the future tries to reverse engineer my stats they will either go crazy trying to figure out the math or will be able to make sense of the math that I hardly did.

[Chindenathus]

Had another look and a quick read of the entire book before I tried a little bit of creation.

I think the game system is well suited for Mecha.   I think the design system is some suited for techno-freaks and math majors.   I know the weight and ablilities of Macross Mecha.   Selecting the most approriate servo, weapon damage, BV, etc. is simple enough but getting to the part where I'm gonna have to make sure there is enough space and the fact I'm pretty sure weight will greatly exceeded the establish Macross weights.   This will result in alot of boring this doing space and weight efficency.  I had a A in the Last math class I took in college.   Math a daily part of my job.  I just don't like it that much.  

I'm sure playing with the design system creating ones design well keeping true the systems rules is part of the fun but for me not about the designing.  I think my conversions will be what fits best towards the animation according to my education opinion.   My stats will just be stats and not a work sheet how things were made.    Yeah I'll use my calculator on parts I'll be fudging some of the steps.   If anyone in the future tries to reverse engineer my stats they will either go crazy trying to figure out the math or will be able to make sense of the math that I hardly did.

403172[/snapback]

The weights that a lot of Japanese writers assign to their creations are for the

most part insanely low (Gundam especially so). Also you can jack the tech

level up on Macross designs pretty high due to "Overtechnology" and that

should give a notable break on weight and volume.

Edited May 29, 2006 by Chindenathus

[Roy Focker]

Okay been working again with it. Biggest math pain in ass is multiple systems. Every time I decide to change something I'm redoing the math again. Might be easy of I was designing from stratch instead of trying to follow the system to reach an establish goal.

My stats so far aren't much different from others I found with the expection of few difference of opinions most end up being pretty close.

Reading more of these books have allowed me to understand the stats that other have made so far. A lot of current conversions are written by the gaming system mecha creationphiles. The every day rper without the proper reference material will not be able to make heads or tails of things. This might explain why sites like Macross Mecha Designs did so well. Even with Palladium inferior system the format estabished by the website wasn't confusing to the untrained eyes. You have to be informed to make sense of some online Mekton material. I am strongly convinced through my reading and research that Mekton is the better anime Mecha system. The MTS seems a bit too much a process of solving a math puzzle. The ability to customize systems, weapons and additonal rules make Mekton Zeta Plus worthwhile.

Not sure how many customs I'll do. I know what I want and what my standards are. Some already nearly meet those standards. Best thing I could contribute is some easier to view formatting and to get a online game going.

[Roy Focker]

If anyone is interested in doing Mekton Macross on in message board format I started a thread over here.

http://macrossroleplay.org/forums/index.ph...ic=1017.new#new

[Ginrai]

Have you guys tried Skype voice chat? I think that would be a lot more fun than a message board. I've got zero interest in message board roleplaying.

[Roy Focker]

I've used voice chats before. I guess you could voice chat with normal chat to see dice results posted. Other wise you'd have to listen to someone's voice to see if they are lying.

Reason why I don't message boards that often is well my working hours aren't stable. I can't promise that I'll have the time.

BTW think I'm getting the hang of the MTS of Plus now. I was making a math error. Did stats for the VF-5000 using the rules and only took two hours.

[Ginrai]

Well, you don't have to roll actual dice, you can use computer programs to do that, or the GM can do all the dice rolling.

[Penguin]

One question I have about Mekton is how detailed is it with regards to character design and development? Is it as lavish with the character system as it is with the mecha?

I ask this since my players have been pushing me away from Silhouette and towards d20 for Macross, purely because they don't feel that Silhouette's simple system of skills and attributes lets them customize and differentiate the characters as much as they'd like to. Personally, that was something I preferred about Silhouette, that it put the emphasis on character personality and roleplaying for differentiation rather than on classes, skills, feats, and such trappings. But, what do I know... I just run the game. My players place greater value in more character options than in realistic mecha simulation (and, since they play the characters and not mecha, I can understand where they're coming from).

Of course, to do what they want, I'd need to come up with a d20 mecha system that's less primitive that what WoTC offers (maybe the Guardians of Order system that DP9 has adopted... but I'm not sold on that one). So, if Mekton has better character development than Silhouette, combined with a solid mecha system, I might be able to push back with an alternative to d20.

Edited June 7, 2006 by Penguin

[Cruel Angel's Thesis]

Actually kinda yes and kinda no. Straight Mekton is good with chara develpoment but once your characters all start to get good they all see the way stat wise. The reason is too many attribute rolled up in one stat. All combat stats are grouped into Reflex's, how tough, strong is all in Body. Now with Mekton there is another way to go, it allows for more character customization.

There is using Fuzion. Fuzion was the proposed new system for both Hero and Interlock, but when Pondsmith accepted an offer to work for Microsoft well . . . it all feel apart. However Talsorian still has the Fuzion system. It has been through several rewrites, but it can be used for Mekton. The first Fuzion game Bubblegum Crisis was Mekton for Fuzion. They built everything out of Mekton and put it in Fuzion, however all of Mekton hasn't been shoved into Fuzion, but most of it can be figured out. The Talsorian website has Fuzion 5 for free download. Shoving Mekton in Fuzion is easy however its building it in Mekton then converting in Fuzion. But its not too hard. Interested i can provide you with what you need, most of the Mekton to Fuzion is divided across several out of print Fuzion books, i have them and can provide you with the info.

Cruel Angel's Thesis

[Roy Focker]

Then there is the Action System which is like a remake of Fuzion. I've done Fuzion and well I'm not that impressed.

I really don't want to like D20. It is complicated and detailed just for the sake of being complicated. It is a pretty poor system but is everywhere. For a Mecha game you just need a system that fairly gives the impression of anime mecha combat. The simplier the better. Your players want dynamtics characters? Tell them to roleplay morons.

Look at Weg D6 starwars & Wotc D20 Starwars. Sure I can make a character with tons of feats and other crap but is it more fun than the easier D6 version?

[Penguin]

Then there is the Action System which is like a remake of Fuzion.  I've done Fuzion and well I'm not that impressed.

I really don't want to like D20.  It is complicated and detailed just for the sake of being complicated.  It is a pretty poor system but is everywhere.  For a Mecha game you just need a system that fairly gives the impression of anime mecha combat.  The simplier the better.  Your players want dynamtics characters?  Tell them to roleplay morons. 

Look at Weg D6 starwars & Wotc D20 Starwars.  Sure I can make a character with tons of feats and other crap but is it more fun than the easier D6 version?

406277[/snapback]

To give the system its due, I do find d20 easy and fairly well-applied for purely character-based stuff. It falls apart entirely for mechanical action. They keep trying to shoehorn mechanical action into the same style as the character and fail miserably. Rather than reworking the whole combat dynamic so that it fits both character and mechanical action, they concentrated on the character and then tried to warp it to fit mechanics after the fact. Yuck. Although, the Star Wars attempt at mechanical action was better than d20 Modern's, both are pretty poor.

I absolutely loved WEG's Star Wars and we played it for years. We gave the WoTC version a try and the player's verdict was similar to Macross. They vastly preferred WEG for the mechanical action, but preferred all the crunchy bits for their characters in d20 over the d6 system's simpler descriptions.

I've read through Fuzion a couple of times and wasn't too excited by it. From the sound of it, Mekton won't satisfy my players' desire for crunchy character stuff either. Guess I'll have to exercise my 20 years of RPG experience and come up with a compromise.

"Roleplay morons"? Not sure what that's got to do with character detail, but maybe I just haven't had enough caffeine yet..

[Roy Focker]

It means that all those fancy pansty, detailed and complex character options for a player character aren't worth it. Players just need to basic set of stats and to role play rest.

[Cruel Angel's Thesis]

That i can agree with Roy. In my group we were more into roleplaying then what is on the sheet. We rolled dice for combat mostly, the rest was us roleplaying everything. Led to some interesting ideas when we as characters had to figure out a way to take out the bad guy. We even had a GM once remove the dragon from a dungeon, he was scared we would kill the dragon with a pillary, a ladder, some halfling bones and rope.

On a side note i enjoyed the D6 Star Wars, damage was a bit funky, but i prefer more then each level more hit points.

Penguin if you are looking for more detailed character creation don't sweat with the system. My group has some old books from Task Force Games, i will admit it might be almost impossible to find them, but you might find them if your lucky.

They are called Hero's for and based on the game type. They was Hero's for Legend, Hero's for Today and Hero's fro Tomorrow. Once you finished you had a character with a background and character traits. We would on some game use it, not all, but we also feared the book as well, it can turn evil on you. One day Dan was rolling a character, it got bad, he finished the character but he wasn't going to play it, he ended up with a dwarf with a perchant for Necrophillia, oh man that was scary seeing all the events play off of that. One thing i have learned in the several systems i have craved through. Its not the system that defines a character its how the player plays it. So if they are looking for detailed character creation those are the books, but warn them it can come back to haunt them.

Cruel Angel's Thesis

[Roy Focker]

I too found that scene disturbing in the lord of the rings.

[MjrMisaHayase]

I too found that scene disturbing in the lord of the rings.

406494[/snapback]

::shudder::

[Penguin]

I too found that scene disturbing in the lord of the rings.

406494[/snapback]

Entering some strange territory, here...

In defence of my players, they are "veteran" gamers with a talent for creating diverse, interesting characters. If they enjoy playing around with numerous feats and class features... well, I'll indulge them on it.

Anyway, thanks for the Mekton feedback guys, and your tolerance for the diversion in your thread.

[Noyhauser]

I ask this since my players have been pushing me away from Silhouette and towards d20 for Macross, purely because they don't feel that Silhouette's simple system of skills and attributes lets them customize and differentiate the characters as much as they'd like to. Personally, that was something I preferred about Silhouette, that it put the emphasis on character personality and roleplaying for differentiation rather than on classes, skills, feats, and such trappings. But, what do I know... I just run the game.    My players place greater value in more character options than in realistic mecha simulation (and, since they play the characters and not mecha, I can understand where they're coming from).

406144[/snapback]

Isn't that a failing of the application of the Silcore system over the 2nd Ed stuff? I've only borrowed silcore stuff (since it got a serious drubbing by alot of the old hands who played HG) and to me it oversimplifed and generalized alot of things to the point that it lost its flavour. 2nd Ed skills were alot more complex and specified, which I thought was actually a good thing.

[Penguin]

Isn't that a failing of the application of the Silcore system over the 2nd Ed stuff? I've only borrowed silcore stuff (since it got a serious drubbing by alot of the old hands who played HG) and to me it oversimplifed and generalized alot of things to the point that it lost its flavour. 2nd Ed skills were alot more complex and specified, which I thought was actually a good thing.

408174[/snapback]

When we started playing my "Silhouette Macross", we were using the pre-SilCORE Jovian Chronicles as the base, so I don't think their attitude is the fault of SilCORE. When we did move to SilCORE, my players actually enjoyed the new complexity system for skills (since I used it to lower difficulties for wilder skill uses, but simply increased the needed complexity for them), and we found that the characters lost nothing in the translation. As a matter of personal taste, we've always favoured wider application of more general skills over separate skills for every little thing (one of the reasons my crew dislikes Palladium so intensely, and enjoyed WEG Star Wars so much). We also ported quite a few things in Mechanical Design from pre-SilCORE Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles as well, so we never used "pure" SilCORE.

As far as skills go, d20 has the same approach (fixed, more general skill list with broader application), so general vs. specific skills aren't the issue. I think they've just become enamoured of the wide selection of feats and class features. As a test, we did some porting of characters to d20 Modern, and I'll admit they've created some characters with interesting diversity in character features (considering they're all VF pilots). I did point out to them that there's nothing the d20 characters can do that the Silhouette ones couldn't... and in fact, there's a lot less since you could try just about anything in combat under Silhouette and now the requirement to take feats has restricted their options. However, they don't seem to mind, and are more enthused than ever. There's some quote I vaguely remember about losing choice giving more freedom to act, or something like that... maybe I'm seeing that in action.

Looks like I'll be creating those d20 Mechanical rules sooner rather than later...

Edited June 16, 2006 by Penguin

[Roy Focker]

Well here it is a freshman's attempt at stats for the VF-17D.

Used a another site's stats as a base. Tried to make things somewhat compatible. Wanted to have something for it to fight against without having to wait for to create a dozen more stats. Differences are what I thought would be best.

http://www.macrossroleplay.org/jetjockey/VF-17D.htm

[Roy Focker]

For those interested in RPG over message boards I started a Mekton Sub-section at Macross RPG Galaxies called

Super Dimension Fortress Mekton

http://www.macrossroleplay.org/boards

Now to convert all those Palladiums there over to Mekton.