The MW Automotive Thread

[areaseven]

Not bad. Wouldn't make it a daily driver, though.

[Agent ONE]

Not bad. Wouldn't make it a daily driver, though.

342970[/snapback]

Cars are for driving, if I get, I'm gonna drive it like I stole it. I HAMMER on my M3.

[PC Valkyrie]

You guys are just so happy with your 'back-&-forth' we don't want to interupt.

So to let you guys know I cancled my name from the 07 M3 waiting list, and put my name on the 06 Lotus Elise wating list... What do you guys think?

You like the car?

http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0408_first_lotus/

Taking into account options and dealer markups, I will be paying 60-70k for this car.

342967[/snapback]

You cancelled the E90 M3 order for an Elise? Very different cars. If you track your car regularly, I agree the Elise is the superior car. I've never driven an Elise (not sold in Canada), but every review I've read says it is one very bumpy car. Not the most comfortable (which is why it handles so well). Don't know too much about the roads you drive on regularly, but the Elise may be a real pain to drive in everyday traffic. You also lose the functionality of the M3 (decent trunk and a rear seat).

If I was looking for a 2 seat convertible sports car that I could use everyday, I would consider the following: Honda S2000, Boxter S, BMW Z4 (upcoming M version), and the SLK55AMG.

Anyways, I'm sure you've thought about this long and hard. Just a little surprising you'd choose the Elise over the other 2 seaters out there.

Edit: Also, my personal opinion is that the Elise is not very pretty, but that's very subjective.

Edited November 7, 2005 by PC Valkyrie

[areaseven]

No quoting of images, please. We only need to see a single image just once.

Edited November 12, 2005 by areaseven

[Agent ONE]

LOL @ A7's post

[Agent ONE]

...

You cancelled the E90 M3 order for an Elise?  Very different cars.  If you track your car regularly, I agree the Elise is the superior car.  I've never driven an Elise (not sold in Canada), but every review I've read says it is one very bumpy car.  Not the most comfortable (which is why it handles so well).  Don't know too much about the roads you drive on regularly, but the Elise may be a real pain to drive in everyday traffic.  You also lose the functionality of the M3 (decent trunk and a rear seat).

If I was looking for a 2 seat convertible sports car that I could use everyday, I would consider the following: Honda S2000, Boxter S, BMW Z4 (upcoming M version), and the SLK55AMG.

Anyways, I'm sure you've thought about this long and hard.  Just a little surprising you'd choose the Elise over the other 2 seaters out there.

Edit:  Also, my personal opinion is that the Elise is not very pretty, but that's very subjective.

342991[/snapback]

I wouldn't do a convertable man. If I get the Lotus, I am screwing the hard top on and never taking it off.

[yellowlightman]

I'm not sure why an Elise wouldn't be a good daily driver. Stiff suspension? That can be annoying to some, but it's also fun and the price you pay for a car that handles so well.

Not to mention the motor is a Toyota 4cylinder, can't get much more "everyday" than that.

[Agent ONE]

I'm not sure why an Elise wouldn't be a good daily driver. Stiff suspension? That can be annoying to some, but it's also fun and the price you pay for a car that handles so well.

Not to mention the motor is a Toyota 4cylinder, can't get much more "everyday"  than that.

343101[/snapback]

Yep, I am thinkin ease of maintainence.. I will also get the turbo, which will bump it to 0-60 in the high 3s.

[Stamen0083]

Yep, I am thinkin ease of maintainence.. I will also get the turbo, which will bump it to 0-60 in the high 3s.

343140[/snapback]

Is that one of the available options or is it aftermarket?

PS: emajnthis, pfunk, please trim the posts you quote. You don't need to back quote the last eight posts.

[Agent ONE]

Yep, I am thinkin ease of maintainence.. I will also get the turbo, which will bump it to 0-60 in the high 3s.

343140[/snapback]

Is that one of the available options or is it aftermarket?

PS: emajnthis, pfunk, please trim the posts you quote. You don't need to back quote the last eight posts.

343159[/snapback]

Both, the aftermarket is bigger though

[Poonman]

I'm just glad emajnthis joined the thread to spank around some of these honda kids that have seen a little too much "Initial D" and not enough "Top Gear"

[Stamen0083]

Pheh. If anything, there's a little too much Honda bashing around in this thread already.

[emajnthis]

Maybe that's because Honda hasn't done anything decent since the S2000 and even that car is getting dated. For A1, the Elise is a good choice. But if you plan on spending 60k on it, why not just get the exsige. It's an Elise with a hardtop and a little less weight, and it comes supercharged. Though i will admit the turbocharged will be much faster, but that motor (because it's built by Yamaha) is very fickle and is easly caught off boost. It takes a lot of tuning to get it to work right, so if you want to build it once and leave it alone i would suggest supercharging. But if you love the thrill of building motors and tinkering with the car, go for the turbo, and you can laugh at anyone who tried to build anything with a Honda badge on it. BTW the Elise is a badass looking car, definitely in the top ranking genre of my car list. Also another suggestion if you want a fast two seater, is get the Cayman. Okay yeah, so you'll feel a little bit like a money grubbin pussy in a porsche, but the Cayman is probably one of the few porsche's out that you can actually do stuff to. The motor they put it in is good, but my suggestion would be to dig around and find someones wrecked GT2 or GT3 and "borrow" its motor.

Edited November 8, 2005 by emajnthis

[emajnthis]

I'm just glad emajnthis joined the thread to spank around some of these honda kids that have seen a little too much "Initial D" and not enough "Top Gear" 

343180[/snapback]

Damn Right! Top Gear is a Bad ASS show! Jeremy Clarkson (though sometimes his statements are subjective) is a very good judge of cars, he doesn't descriminate by what the badge says but whether the car meets it's intended purpose. If anyone wants to read some of his articles on cars go to http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/section/0,,12529,00.html . Very good stuff there

[Agent ONE]

Maybe that's because Honda hasn't done anything decent since the S2000 and even that car is getting dated.  For A1, the Elise is a good choice.  But if you plan on spending 60k on it, why not just get the exsige.  It's an Elise with a hardtop and a little less weight, and it comes supercharged.  ...

343275[/snapback]

The Exige weighs more, and has the same engine, there is a supercharged version, but only 50 of those were made and you can pick one up for about 160k. The Elise is the same car, just different body work, and personally the Exige looks more like a track only car. Not like a road car. It just looks too 'racer' for me.

[emajnthis]

Maybe that's because Honda hasn't done anything decent since the S2000 and even that car is getting dated.  For A1, the Elise is a good choice.  But if you plan on spending 60k on it, why not just get the exsige.  It's an Elise with a hardtop and a little less weight, and it comes supercharged.  ...

343275[/snapback]

The Exige weighs more, and has the same engine, there is a supercharged version, but only 50 of those were made and you can pick one up for about 160k. The Elise is the same car, just different body work, and personally the Exige looks more like a track only car. Not like a road car. It just looks too 'racer' for me.

343333[/snapback]

That's true, because i just remembered it doesn't have air conditioning either. But back to the original advice, if you're going to turbo it just make sure you have everything tuned correctly or the motor will react horribly.

[Agent ONE]

Maybe that's because Honda hasn't done anything decent since the S2000 and even that car is getting dated.  For A1, the Elise is a good choice.  But if you plan on spending 60k on it, why not just get the exsige.  It's an Elise with a hardtop and a little less weight, and it comes supercharged.  ...

343275[/snapback]

The Exige weighs more, and has the same engine, there is a supercharged version, but only 50 of those were made and you can pick one up for about 160k. The Elise is the same car, just different body work, and personally the Exige looks more like a track only car. Not like a road car. It just looks too 'racer' for me.

343333[/snapback]

That's true, because i just remembered it doesn't have air conditioning either. But back to the original advice, if you're going to turbo it just make sure you have everything tuned correctly or the motor will react horribly.

343336[/snapback]

Yep, I'd get the whole engine rebuild. Lotus won't let you just put in a turbo and be done with it.

[emajnthis]

Technically Lotus won't let you do anything to the car before it's delivered. It's funny because my brother and I were discussing a Lotus project. I know the budget project i've seen is the MR-S project, which was a private motorsports company's mission to make an MR-S faster than a custom built turbo Elise through lightening the body and basically using an identical motor. The project was successful but who wants to be seen driving around a puss box MR-S. The Elise is a great car, if you go to road & tracks website they have the Super Four Challenge (4 cylinder motored cars) and two of the two Elises entered got in the top 10. After you're done with the rebuild, be sure to post before and after specs on your numbers. I'd really love to see what your Elise can run in the quarter since Lotus already has the highest reputation for being able to handle the track.

Edited November 8, 2005 by emajnthis

[Agent ONE]

Technically Lotus won't let you do anything to the car before it's delivered.  It's funny because my brother and I were discussing a Lotus project.  I know the budget project i've seen is the MR-S project, which was a private motorsports company's mission to make an MR-S faster than a custom built turbo Elise through lightening the body and basically using an identical motor.  The project was successful but who wants to be seen driving around a puss box MR-S.  The Elise is a great car, if you go to road & tracks website they have the Super Four Challenge (4 cylinder motored cars) and two of the two Elises entered got in the top 10.  After you're done with the rebuild, be sure to post before and after specs on your numbers.  I'd really love to see what your Elise can run in the quarter since Lotus already has the highest reputation for being able to handle the track.

343357[/snapback]

Lotus Elise Turbo video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=10...6&q=lotus+elise

[glane21]

You guys are just so happy with your 'back-&-forth' we don't want to interupt.

So to let you guys know I cancled my name from the 07 M3 waiting list, and put my name on the 06 Lotus Elise wating list... What do you guys think?

You like the car?

Taking into account options and dealer markups, I will be paying 60-70k for this car.

342967[/snapback]

I think I would take my name off the list and wait a few months. Let some other chump buy it new and eat at least the initial depreciation, then buy it at discount after he trades it back in after 3000 miles because the tight suspension is jarring out his fillings and he can't get more than a dufflebag in it.

wait list = dealers' wet dream

[Agent ONE]

You guys are just so happy with your 'back-&-forth' we don't want to interupt.

So to let you guys know I cancled my name from the 07 M3 waiting list, and put my name on the 06 Lotus Elise wating list... What do you guys think?

You like the car?

Taking into account options and dealer markups, I will be paying 60-70k for this car.

342967[/snapback]

I think I would take my name off the list and wait a few months. Let some other chump buy it new and eat at least the initial depreciation, then buy it at discount after he trades it back in after 3000 miles because the tight suspension is jarring out his fillings and he can't get more than a dufflebag in it.

wait list = dealers' wet dream

343463[/snapback]

Smart.

[Stamen0083]

So, what are you going to do with your M3 after you get your Elise, AOne? Sell it, I guess?

[ComicKaze]

I'm just glad emajnthis joined the thread to spank around some of these honda kids that have seen a little too much "Initial D" and not enough "Top Gear" 

343180[/snapback]

Damn Right! Top Gear is a Bad ASS show! Jeremy Clarkson (though sometimes his statements are subjective) is a very good judge of cars, he doesn't descriminate by what the badge says but whether the car meets it's intended purpose. If anyone wants to read some of his articles on cars go to http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/section/0,,12529,00.html . Very good stuff there

343276[/snapback]

The interesting thing I've learned about Top Gear, is how much Honda is the geriatric brand of the UK. Whereas elderly Americans drive things like Lincoln Continentals. Old people in the UK apparentely love Hondas and they have a total old people image in the UK.

That's hilarious when you consider how much of a youth-brand Honda has always strived to fill in North America, especially with the extra helpings of rice and budget.

Edited November 9, 2005 by ComicKaze

[pfunk]

GO with the Elise and cancell the order on the M, but like Glane said, exspecially if your modding the motor and rebuilding it, get ussed Good thing about Lotus too is that they use GM engineering for thier ECM's and are over engineered if anything, Does anyone know if its a Mass Air or speed density system (speed density lends itself better to mods) A1, you ever drive a sub 4 second 0-60 car,,,, pretty intense man, your going to be addicted. Ive only had that glory in 1/4 miler cars, would be nice to have the power in something that handles not only in a straight line (which if I ever get my garages done I can get back to work on my project (600hp, 2800lbs )

[kanata67]

why anybody would spend 100k+ on a non-vintage car is beyond me. For that kind of money you could buy a 67 camaro for $10k and put $90k into making it smoke damn near anything. A d-type jag, sure... a ford gt-40 [not a gt but a real gt-40], a ferrarri dino, etc sure, but a new car? Everybody jumped on the delorean and look what that got them... an expensive paperweight. After a car has survived a few years at least indicates it's more than just a pretty face. Hell... buy a kit car if you want a pretty face. At least you know the drivetrain is sound. And what the hell is up with the new beetle?!?!? God... some wanna be hippies with to much money

by the way... I'm unfortunately selling my 67 camaro soon

unless of course somebody want's to sponser me [hint hint a1]

sad thing is I always wanted to drive an elise...

sadder still is how little you can see out of an gt-40 windshield... almost as painfull as taking a sharp turn at high speed in a cobra

Edited November 9, 2005 by kanata67

[pfunk]

why anybody would spend 100k+ on a non-vintage car is beyond me. For that kind of money you could buy a 67 camaro for $10k and put $90k into making it smoke damn near anything. A d-type jag, sure... a ford gt-40 [not a gt but a real gt-40], a ferrarri dino, etc sure, but a new car? Everybody jumped on the delorean and look what that got them... an expensive paperweight. After a car has survived a few years at least indicates it's more than just a pretty face. Hell... buy a kit car if you want a pretty face. At least you know the drivetrain is sound. And what the hell is up with the new beetle?!?!? God...  some wanna be hippies with to much money

by the way... I'm unfortunately selling my 67 camaro soon

unless of course somebody want's to sponser me [hint hint a1]

sad thing is I always wanted to drive an elise...

sadder still is how little you can see out of an gt-40 windshield... almost as painfull as taking a sharp turn at high speed in a cobra

343546[/snapback]

I agree with ya man, Ive been looking into kits and factory 5 has a daytona coupe replica that handles like anything on the market today. But if you think about it, if you want a certain look or performance out of the box and you dont know how to do the work yourself (or in the case of some of my freinds, do the work and take it to me to fix it) your going to spend a lot of cash having it done for you, example, guy I work with has 60K into body work on a 39 ford and then the guy wanted more money

[emajnthis]

I got my December Issue of Road & Track in the mail along with my SCC and Super Strt. but the latter haven't had anything interesting in the last 4 issues so when the cover of R&T showed Shootouts as the heading, it's obvious which one i chose to read first.

Shootouts involved the Big brawlers: ZO6 vs. SRT-10 Viper; The Rebirthed Muscle: SRT-8 Charger vs. GTO; Classic Rivalry: Ferrari F430 vs Ford GT and the Rally Brothers: STI vs EVO... to put the conclusions short, based on numbers alone: ZO6 stomps Viper; SRT-8 Chargers stomps GTO; GT stomps F430 (which i found pretty awesome considering the F430 was built purposely to Beat the GT); EVO IX ties STI - this test was a bit bias because they were using the five speed EVO and not the six speed MR which made the gear ratios in favor of a better 0-60 and 1/4 mile, but on the track it got whooped. In Car & Drivers EVO IX MR vs STI the MR lost in all categories.

Based on drivability switch around the GTO and the Charger (eventhough the GTO looks like a cavalier on steroids), and switch around the F430 and the GT (mostly because you can't see well out of the GT).

I love it when magazines do shootouts, because then you can go to the person who loves the car that lost and laugh in their face! I could really care less that you can't see out of the GT considering the fact that it's still a Ferrari killer that costs 100,000 less. Also i'm not a fan of either the GTO or the Charger, but the Charger has 4 doors and stomps the GTO, that in itself is enough reason to want the Charger... sure it's not true to the heritage, but at least you can haul around your friends while you beat a GTO in a drag race.

[emajnthis]

Technically Lotus won't let you do anything to the car before it's delivered.  It's funny because my brother and I were discussing a Lotus project.  I know the budget project i've seen is the MR-S project, which was a private motorsports company's mission to make an MR-S faster than a custom built turbo Elise through lightening the body and basically using an identical motor.  The project was successful but who wants to be seen driving around a puss box MR-S.  The Elise is a great car, if you go to road & tracks website they have the Super Four Challenge (4 cylinder motored cars) and two of the two Elises entered got in the top 10.  After you're done with the rebuild, be sure to post before and after specs on your numbers.  I'd really love to see what your Elise can run in the quarter since Lotus already has the highest reputation for being able to handle the track.

343357[/snapback]

Lotus Elise Turbo video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=10...6&q=lotus+elise

343374[/snapback]

Actually it was car and driver who had the super four challenge, and the car in the video (Forcefed Turbo Elise) was the one that was having the boost problems. They complained about how inconsistent the power output was and how it was rittled with drivability issues. http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...&page_number=14 for the exact article.

[pfunk]

I hate 4 door sports cars for some weird reason,,, as for the GTO, thats one heavy mother and could use a better gear ratio in the rear axle, GM is still for gas milegae in V8 cars

I guess its thier claim to fame, while Ford puts drag gears in the mustang which stomps a lot of cars with 200hp, GM puts econo gears in 400hp

[emajnthis]

I hate 4 door sports cars for some weird reason,,, as for the GTO, thats one heavy mother and could use a better gear ratio in the rear axle, GM is still for gas milegae in V8 cars

I guess its thier claim to fame, while Ford puts drag gears in the mustang which stomps a lot of cars with 200hp, GM puts econo gears in 400hp

343601[/snapback]

I noticed that exact same thing. But i think that also goes back to a long ended debate about pushrod vs overhead cam and all that entails. I'm not a fan of four door sports cars either but i was surprised to find that the Charger weighs more and only has 25 hp more than the GTO but stomps the hell out of it.

The other article that intrigued me was RUF's newest Porsche creation the St12 (12th generation of 911 Turbo). He built a nearly 700hp/tq monster that costs 287,000 (nearly 150,000 less than a carrera GT) and gets a 0-60 at 3.2 seconds, a 1/4 mile of 11.0 seconds and a top speed of 217.8 miles an hour. That's faster than both an Enzo and a Carrera GT and costs a hell of a lot less.

*also as a side note, the Ford GT in the shootout pulled 1.0g in the skipdad.

Edited November 9, 2005 by emajnthis

[pfunk]

Ive ridden in a RUF (1989) and those cars are EXTREMLY underated in the supercar catagory, they definatly tweak in the right areas and make a really good car REALLY great,,, I see you had a Miata, I was looking for one with a lot of mil;es to do the 5.0 conversion, but they hold thier value too well

[emajnthis]

Ive ridden in a RUF (1989) and those cars are EXTREMLY underated in the supercar catagory, they definatly tweak in the right areas and make a really good car REALLY great,,, I see you had a Miata, I was looking for one with a lot of mil;es to do the 5.0 conversion, but they hold thier value too well

343610[/snapback]

yeh no kidding, i was lucky and got mine private party from someone in the newspaper. He sold it for KBB trade in value at the time, which if i can remember was around 2 grand. I was going to do the monster miata, but after reading some people doing it and basically the conclusion being that the car is only driveable in a straight line, i opted to just lighten the crap out of it the best i could and turbo the motor. By the end i had someones custom integrated headlight kit so i could save some weight on the pop ups, also had the hard top and some other weight saving materials (carbon fibre hood, aftermarket wheels, etc.). The car had a roll cage which always made me feel a little safer about getting into an accident, but then after a good day at the track, someone came up and gave me an offer i couldn't refuse, so a week and a fat check later it was gone. I couldn't complain, I'm 6'2" and it had a big interior but it was just slightly too small for me. It was just small enough to make me feel a bit clostraphobic, but big enough to where i wasn't banging my knee into the dash.

I completely agree with you about the RUF, everyone has the idea that Porsche's are great out of the box, but RUF obviously proves this theory completely wrong. All of his cars are in short... perfect. He really sticks to the power to weight philosophy and really gets every extra ounce of juice he can out of the motors. If you buy one, he won't deliver it to you unless he takes you out onto the autobahn and tests it's 0-60 1/4 mile and top speed, so you have it for your records to make sure you're satisfied. Talk about service, his cars are worth every penny.

Edited November 9, 2005 by emajnthis

[Poonman]

The interesting thing I've learned about Top Gear, is how much Honda is the geriatric brand of the UK. Whereas elderly Americans drive things like Lincoln Continentals. Old people in the UK apparentely love Hondas and they have a total old people image in the UK.

That's hilarious when you consider how much of a youth-brand Honda has always strived to fill in North America, especially with the extra helpings of rice and budget.

343531[/snapback]

thats pretty much how it is in japan too. nissans, mazdas, subarus etc. all have a pretty good tuner following but I don't think they do too much to hondas. I had a 98' prelude a few years ago and aside from a few VERY expensive Mugen parts the only after-market hop ups were made by US companies for our market. exhaust, headers, intake, v-tec controller, springs, sway bars etc. ALL had to be bought from US companies like DC Sports and Neuspeed.

had I bought a 240SX with a pick-up truck engine in it I'd have an entire catalog of parts available from sweet Japanese tuners like Nismo, Tein, Endless etc.

[reddsun1]

Anybody know where there may be more photos from the SEMA show? Particularly the customized Dodge Charger? It looks like West Coast Customs has finally created what consumers have been begging Chrysler for since day one: a two door coupe ver. of the Charger. Up til now, it's only been seen as the digital imaginings of Photoshop artists, but now it seems it's been shown to be possible. You've got to hand it to Chrysler, they've got some of the most aesthetically pleasing and most customizable cars on the road today [somewhat tacky customizers' paint choices notwithstanding]. But some of the auto rag pundits still proclaim it a company in the red? Go figure. But I guess all of the big 3 are in somewhat shaky conditions. They can't do any worse than GM, whose cars are some of the fugliest on the road. They seem to be kept afloat by fleet sales and older consumers who remain doggedly brand loyal.

I think I'm liking the idea of a 2-door Charger--ugly ass truck grille or no...c'mon Dodge! Get with it already!

Edited November 10, 2005 by reddsun1

[Agent ONE]

That "General Lee" is cool.