Radd

There's already many threads on just that topic, and dozens more that were hijacked like this. It does relate, though, as it is people commenting on the introduction of what they felt were 'mystical' elements in M7 and seeing M0 support that idea. I think they're way off base on both counts, though admittedly it's too early to tell with M0 as we don't know everything that's going on yet.

I really dislike the look of the fighters from LotGH, but they fit so perfectly, so I don't mind at all. And they really do look what I'd expect a more 'realistic' space fighter to look like. And I seriously do want to see someone make a LotGH Homeworld (1 or 2) mod, it is oh so perfect for that sort of game.

In the X-Wing games, the B-Wing was faster, tougher, and had more firepower than the Y-Wing. As for the wing rotating around the cockpit, it really did not seem any more complex than the X-Wing spreading it's wings. The fuselage rotates down, and the two smaller wings spread out. Certainly far and away less complex than everyone's favourite transforming fighters.

I think people (on both sides) have lost sight of what they're arguing about. Most people seem to think that Macross 7 is full of magic and mysticism. It doesn't look that way to me, but most people seem to have gotten in their heads that spiritua is some sort of mystical, magical power, and that by including it in Macross 7, they're rewriting history. I've already stated my feelings on that, so I won't bother again.

There's only one way to determine this. We must pit George Lucas and Shoji Kawamori in a fight to the death. Seriously, though, it really depends on who is wrting the story. All of this is made-up fantasy. I've heard descriptions from roleplaying books stating that a single Star Destroyer can raze a planet by itself (though if that were true, then the Death Star and the Eclipse class Super star Destroyer wouldn't have been nearly as impressive to those living in the SW universe). Then you've got things like the Sun Crusher, a ship the size of a fighter that can lay waste to entire solar systems (I hate most of the SW Extended Universe ). I don't think there's anything in the Macross universe that went that far (something about 'rediculously inconsistant, power tripping plot devices'), but they did eventually have fighters loaded up with more than enough firepower to take out capital ships. Who really knows what a nuke would do to a Star Wars capital ship? I mean, I hear lots of fans saying that things like nukes would just bounce off their advanced sheilds and such, yet the weapons displayed in shows like Star Trek and Star Wars, when used against 'real world' sort of things like mountains, planets, and asteroids and whatnot just do not seem to show superior firepower to something of that magnitude(aside from the Death Star's super laser, of course). Most people's arguments generally follow the line of thought that since shows like Star Wars or Star Trek take places either so far in the future, or in cultures that have existed for thousands and thousands of years of space travel, that they are far more powerful than you could possibly comprehend with 100% of your brain. Whereas Macross begins in 1999, and even the latest stories take place in the 2050's. And nuke's just are so 20th century. Professor Amazing invented a wonderous Sciengenioisity field that miraculously neutralizes nuclear weapons and even programs your VCR! All in the year 20X6! Later, Magic Beans were discovered, grown with dylithium fertalizer, that produced magical force shields that protect against everything except for Phasers and male pattern baldness.

Technically, so is the B-wing. Still, both the B-Wing and the TIE Bomber are far more maneuaverable counterparts to the modern day idea of bombers, either could stand in for a dogfighting role.

I really, really want the 1/48th Max and Millia 1Js, but financialy difficulties are keeping my debit card at bay. I'll get them if I'm able to before they're all gone, or have risen to prices I'm unwilling to pay.

Well, in the movies the closest thing to a direct decendant appears to be the TIE Interceptor, based entirely on the crimped wing design. Nothing official, though. However, in the Extended Universe, the TIE Avenger is the direct decendant of Vader's ship. Same basic look, but cleaner and more streamlined. We have seriously diverging tastes as far as starships go, I can't stand the look of the Voyager, ugliest ship in the Trek universe is my opinion. I prefere a lot of the older designs over the increasingly ugly new designs. I like the refitted original Enterprise, the Reliant, and the Excelsior. However, Trek ships generally aren't my favourite in general. Give me the Yamato, the Arcadia, the Death Shadow, or even the Karyu from Matsumoto's stories. The ships from the last episodes of MOSPEADA remain high among my favourites. What was that? The Jupiter fleet? With the dark blue, red, and orange colour schemes?

I'm going to toss in another vote for the Legioss/Tread combination, followed by many of the fighters from Star Wars, the B-Wing possibly being my favourite.

I would so love a Valk of that size. I certainly would pick at least one up if they released 'em, however I'd actually be happier if Yamato released some larger valks, like the VF-0 and the YF-19 in 1/48th scale, putting them around that size. That way I can have my large scale Valks, and have a single line, all in the same scale, which would be perfect for me.

I don't get. Why would they all be assigned to Captain Dagger? It seems obvious to me he was the instructor assigned to that aircraft. Before I'm accused of saying all the 1D's are trainers I don't think they are, just that VT-102 is. That's exactly what I'm saying. We have an example of ONE(1) VF-1D that is a training craft. It is assigned to an instructer by the name of Captain Dagger, and one student pilot. It is labeled VT-102. The proof is the VT-102 stamped on the side of the Valkyrie, and the names labled on the cockpit seats. However, none of this is proof that the entire line of D variant VF-1 fighters are trainers, any more than it is proof that all VF-1D Valkyries have an instructor named Captain Dagger assigned to the back seat. All this evidence only really applies to that one(1) specific VF-1D. Not only that, but the only other VF-1D we see in the series is shown in a non-training role, and the only other training Valkyries we see are cannon fodders, including a cannon fodder VF-1J, and then the VT-1 from the movie.

Yes, Nanashi did post that. He also cited his sources: To which I replied: I don't doubt Nanashi or his sources, the problem is we're all working from that same source and the evidence of that source is purely circumstancial to that specific VF-1D, VT-102, a training Valkyrie assigned to the instructer Captain Dagger. I believe I should reiterate that I'm asking if there is undisputable proof out there that the VF-1D series of VF-1 Valkyries was produced as a Training Valkyrie like the VT-1. Just because one VF-1D was shown to be a training valkyrie (as proven by sources Nanashi cited) does not mean that ALL VF-1D Valkyries are trainers. We do see an armed VF-1D in non-training roles in the series, but we do not see if those VF-1D's are trainers armed and sent out on non training missions, or if they are all assaigned to Captain Dagger. I'm also not asking for speculation based on the questionable or circumstancial evidence that has been provided, though by all means everyone is welcome to continue doing so. Basically, what I want is a signed note from Kawamori specifying whether or not the D variant of the VF-1 is specifically designed and produced in a training role.

The VF-1D is a Dual seat version Variable Fighter which is used as a trainer, a forced recon unit and can be used as a combatant with live-fire rounds. The proof that it is used as a trainer is the fact that 'Stud Seat' (Student) and 'INST - CAPT - DAGGER" (Instructor) as well as VT-102 were written on the side of the cockpit. That is a good argument, and has been mentioned in this thread, the problem with it is the circumstancial nature of the evidence. Not every VF-1D is going to have 'VT-102' stamped on it's side, is it? Also, unless 'Dagger' is some sort of airforce/naval term, is 'Capt. Dagger' going to be listed on all of the rear seats of every VF-1D? I do believe it is a fair assessment that Hikaru's VF-1D, VT-102, was a trainer, but does that really mean that all VF-1Ds are trainers?

So I guess this thread answers my original question...that there is no solid evidence either way. Just speculation.

Ok, now we've heard it all time and again. 'The VF-1D being a trainer is a Robotech idea and there is nothing in Macross that explicitely states it's a trainer of any sort'. Now, is there any source that says beyond any doubt that the VF-1D is not a trainer? The compendium offered nothing on this, simply mentioning that it had 2 headlasers, like the VF-1J, and mentioning it among all the other VF-1 varients that are two seaters. Now one of the arguments I've heard that the VF-1D is a trainer even in the Macross universe is it's colour scheme as seen in SDF Macross being bright orange, and that it's colours are similar to the VT-1 from 'DYRL?'. Another argument against is the VF-0D, which is probably a direct predecessor if the number/letter schemes mean anything like that, seeing as the VF-0S and VF-0A both have direct decendents in the VF-1S and the VF-1A. All of this is circumstancial, though, is there any solid evidence pointing either way?

Some of the basics are better than most anything from Armada, and better than a lot of the late G1 toys. I still think they're pretty ugly toys. Sure, they're posable and some of them are starting to have alt modes that aren't quite as hideous as those in Armada, they're still ugly. The least ugly Energon toy I've seen is Starscream. On the other hand, some of the larger Energon toys are even uglier than their already ugly Armada counterparts. Sure, Megatron's new design is a throwback to Galvatron. I hated Galvatron, as I did most of the post-movie designs. His vehicle design is absolutely wretched, far worse then the Armada Megatron. Prime? Do we even need to compare? Prime was not a pretty toy for the Amrada line. His cab was ok...not good, certainly not great, but decent. His robot mode was fairly spiff, even, thouygh could have used some improvement. His trailer and his combined forms were both ugly messes. Garbage. Now, for Energon? He's been packing on the pounds. He really does look like a joke in all modes. His trailor is rediculous, his cab mode is a joke, his robot mode is the most tasteless joke of all and there's really not much of an improvement in his Power Ranger mode. I would like to pick up one of those Armada Prime toys, the ones that were smaller and didn't have the trailer, and I've already picked up Rodimus (who was not as cool as I expected, and my hopes were not all that high) and Starscream (who's OK, but still mainly running on nostalgia), and I intend to pick up Arcee when she comes out. Other than those toys, I'm concentrating on the only Transformers line that has really caught my attention in a long time, the Alternators.

Well, we don't know that the Megaroad class was more powerful. Considering that it was primarily a colony ship class, they were probably lacking in firepower. That's a useless debate though, as we lack hard evidence either way. Even the Compendium is lacking in details on the Megaroad class.

Keep in mind, that's apparently not the official colour scheme at the moment. The Transformer is apparently supposed to be Jazz, but Hasbro is at this time considering going with the name 'Meister', which is Jazz's Japanese name, since they apparently lost the trademark to the name 'Jazz'. Of course, Tracks is coming out in completely different colours, so I wouldn't be completely surprised if they dropped Jazz's original colours.

Yeah, they show it every so often. They also tend to show Tekkaman Blade II.

Actually, Battle 13 is a New Macross class battleship. Apparently the New Macross class ships are not identical. they all have the same basic structure with some asthetic differences. The Battle 5 for example, looked more Zentran in appearance. There's pictures of the line art of some of these ships floating around. Slight stylistic differences does not equate to a completely seperate class. I believe this sort of thing can be found in real world naval vessles of the same class having distinct visual differences. And yes, VF-X and VF-X2 are officially canon.

http://www.anime.net/macross/mecha/united_.../vf0/index.html Yet again, the Compendium brings us our answers! How can this be? For Egan is the Kwisatz Haderach!

You can't compare those to Energon because both of those are collectors lines, Energon is a mass market line Like G1. Energon is hit and miss for me but I like some of what I have seen so far. Says who? The Alternators are available in Toys 'R Us and Walmart just like Energon, and are priced similar to Energon toys of the same size. Also, I would argue that the Car Robot/Robots in Disguise line had some much higher quality toys than the Energon line. I'll take Fire Convoy, the Car Brothers, the train gestalt, and even Build King over anything I've seen in Energon. Unfortunately, RiD's weak point was the Predacons/Decepticons, there were only a couple worth getting. Still Black Convoy is a much better toy than any of the Energon Decepticons. MPC Prime on the other hand, I'll sort of agree. It's difficult to be fair when comparing an 70-80 dollar toy to a 30-40 dollar toy. It can be done, but you have to weigh in the price difference. In my opinion, MPC Prime is well worth the price tag, whereas Tubbimus Prime isn't worth 5 bucks. Of course, if MPC Prime is out of your price range, well then, you're out of luck. I'd still reccomend trying to find one of those smaller, yet improved Armada Prime figures if there's any still around. It's much better than the Energon Prime, and not nearly as costly as the larger version that comes with that mess of a trailer.

Only sillier in the fact that Minmei's effectiveness and the culture shock stuff was really only an outpouring of spiritia, if SDF were to be explained in M7 terms. It works much better if it isn't, IMO. I suppose you're alluding to the few fans that actually "get it", and that see the originally intended presence of the mystical in SDF. Except that in this strained analogy, there wouldn't have *been* any that disagreed with Aristotle or figured out what's "really going on". There wouldn't be enough evidence-- no matter how hard you looked, and how long it took-- to formulate a more accurate theory, and whatever hypothesis they made would have been one made purely of whimsy. Ie.: Someone who heard Exedore's speech before M7's release, and concluded that "a quantifiable mystic life force" was the foundation of love, the universe, the Minmei attack... would have been righteously scoffed at as daffy. Actually, that lone scrap of evidence *still* remains unconvincing even in hindsight... which is why this debate exists. -Al I'm afraid my post make the most sense when you read my previous post. It seems to me that M7 did not retcon how Minmay effected the Zentradi, it's all in how you define spirtua. I'll say again that I don't feel there's anything magical about it, no more so than someone laughing at a joke, or appreciating a piece of art. I've covered that already. As for the second part, again, my previous post covers my feelings on that topic, but in short. no, you misunderstand.

'An Angel's Paint', probably. Just fills my head with visions of the VF-4 squadrons escorting the Megaroad off into the sunset.

Woo, 3 air shows in Wisconsin, all in June. Wonder if I'll be able to make it to any of them?