hobbes221

Thanks Kronnang looks like Gubaba might have a new avatar soon

IIRC it was given the 'F' as disinformation to cover what it's true role was.

Well I don't think that we really get a good feel for what was going on back on Earth for most of SDFM so who knows there could have been a fair number of VF-0s running around. Or there could have been problems with the design and it was scraped in favor of the VF-1. From a Navy stand point once the war kicked off there could have been a focus on the VF-1 as it is smaller and has a smaller footprint on deck allowing for more to be packed into the carriers giving a larger airwing. Looking at the VF-0 I always felt that it seems to have a 'strike' look to it (even more so with the VF-0D), I would love to see some VF-1 (or even VF-25s) escorting some VF-0s all loaded up for some air to ground action, but that's just me

I saw it and I will say that Keanu does a great job of playing an alien that has no concept of human emotions... . Sorry couldn't get that out with a straight face. I kept thinking that 'okay they can pull this off, they can save it.' nope, wrong. It just seemed like it tried to go in too many different directions. And I kept waiting for a 'whoa'.

Right Obi Wan

Okay so I was just going over M Zero epi 3 right now and something clicked about when we were talking about the whole carrier, sub and drop tank thing. Looking at the wing stores, could the SV-51 even have launched from the sub with that much under the wings? I mean with the way that the wings fold I thought that you could only use the outer hard points not the rest. So does that mean that they would have had to come from somewhere other than the sub? -Sorry to get off the running topic but this is buggin me and I think that you guys have covered all the bases on the launch tech that we can without more info. Sorry man but they make plenty of mistakes, we have a whole thread for bugs just for Frontier, and I quote David Hingtgen. So they do make mistakes or are we to assume that the grappling hook is designed just to appear out of nowhere? (And no, I'm not trying to be a smarta$$, I just can't take every single frame as canon when things seem to contradict each other at times)

UPDATE! WOO-HOO! Man Mr March thanks again for all the work at M3, great site.

The drop tanks could have been used to allow the SV-51s to dogleg around the fleet before attacking as to hide the location of the sub. And do we know if the fuel was used up by then? As Letigre said they ran low on fuel in the first fights, so use whatever you need to get there from the drop tanks, punch them off when you get there and you have full internal fuel to do the job, much like RL ops. Most pilots feel that you can never have too much power, speed or fuel so packing a extra drop or two is all good. on the topic of the open space inside of subs, does anyone know the size of the missile compartments for the boomers like the Ohio or Typhoon? Might be a good comparison, I know it will not be close to a sub packing 12 fighters but still its something. And IIRC in Full Metal Panic they said that the TTD-1 could not dive very far due to the design of the hull. (think I read that in the art book or something)

I always thought that those engines on the VF-4 were smaller TN turbines used for gerwalk and as a boost in fighter. Guess I figured that was why those intakes on the inner wing roots were there for, to feed the upper engines. (I know that most if not all VFs have had those intakes and more than anything they are there just because SK thinks they're cool but anyways...) Never thought of them as a type of internal rocket system, wonder what everyone else will say? As the VF-4 is listed has having a pair of 14,000 or 16,500kg engines, having a set of 50,000kg rockets with you always sure would give a kick if you needed it. humm... Now I'm seeing the last fight from M Zero when they all have their FAST packs going and leaving the trails of smoke/contrails but with VF-4s, man I REALLY need a 'All That VF' for the Lightning now.

I think that the problem with the carrier/sub mix is the the time it would take for the sub to leave the area of operation, link up with the carrier, move the fightersto the sub and return to a launch point. It would work fine for a one shot long range strike but keeping up sustained combat ops would be hard as the faster a sub goes the more noise it makes and easier it is for ASW systems to find. Do we have a day by day or range of dates for M Zero? If Sv-51s were doing one or two flights a day I would say that they are going right back to the sub, if it's a few days or a week between when we see them fly then ether could work. Just my take on things. Oh and not to take us back to the topic of cats and tubes and all that but a thought hit me at work and I forgot to post it then. But as some said that it may not be a good idea to launch your birds at right angle to the carrier (BSG style). I was thinking that a launch like that may be useful as it clears the air wing from being in the line of fire if both fleets are headed right at each other and rounds are going both ways. Anyways back on with the boats and stuff.

Yes it does but that may not work in it's favor when it is trying to land and maybe the fighter VTOL mode is more stable by having the three points of thrust farther apart. Not to mention the fact that in fighter mode you also would not have to deal with the shifting of weight caused by the legs moving around during and after hook up. And looking at the SV-51 in gerwalk mode there does not seem to be too much open space on the top to have a spot for the docking arm to hook up to so maybe some of the mounting points are on the top of the engine nacelles or the airframe just may need to be as rigid as it can. In the pic I've added I can only see a small area inbetween the lift fans and the head so I'm not too sure as to where a hook up point could be, any ideas? sv_51_cgi_gerwalk_rear.bmp

Talking about the generations of aircraft reminds me of one of the reasons that I love Macross and that's the fact that SK has been designing Variable Fighters for so long now that it's great to look back and see where new ideas have taken him as the next gen of VF come out. Even to the point of the VF-0, a look at what the VF-1 might have been if Macross was brand new today with all of the stealth designs from today's aircraft. And somewhat back on the topic of VF ops, I would have loved to have seen a shot of the Macross Quarter's hanger bay with a VT-1 tucked away in the background. Because if you look at toady's world there are many airframes that date almost all the back to the dawn of the jet age that are still in use today. I mean how long did birds like the T-33, F-86, Mig-17 and Mig-19 still take to the sky, and A-4s were owning the skies over NAS Miramar, so old birds can still kick a$$. I think that the VT-1 or other old VFs would still (or should) have a role as a trainer/squadron hack or other such roles even to the 2060s. I never really liked the one VF for every role idea. And yes I remember that M7 did have many different VFs but most of those were spec ops birds and one off customs and such. - rant over-

Yeah I got how the Yaks and -35 have the same lay out for thrust when compared to the Harrier I was just checking as how everyone was calling them 'lift fans' sometimes I get a little picky on words. But thanks for the info and reply. And on the whole lift fan vs engine thing has it been stated 100% just what are in the SV-51? because if they are just fans that would seem to say that they would have to powered by electric motors without a direct power take-off shaft do to it being a variable fighter.

Now that I'm thinking about it if you are in space and using cats to get the VFs off the deck then it might be possible to launch the birds with their engines at idle or even off and wait until they are clear to kick them back in. If so then that might speed up the rate at which they are launched as you would not have to deal with all the problems of having the engines running on deck and things like having to raise and lower the JBD (jet blast deflector). Anyways just a thought. And on the topic of the Russian birds do they use lift fans? I thought that both the Yak-38 and Yak-141 used dedicated lift engines and not fans as in the F-35B. The fan on the F-35 is powered by a shaft from the main engine while as the Yaks have lift engines that are separate from the flight engine/s. Or am I wrong?

I remember about the VTOL capability being stated but was unsure if it meant fighter or gerwalk mode and the whole DYRL bit got me thinking, thanks for the input. Oh and good point on the Alert 5 SOP but my thinking with the launch tubes is that it would allow the VFs to be kept off the deck and in a more safe area and it was just a idea.

All good points, but now I have a question that has been bugging me for some time now. In DYRL we see a VT-1 on it's belly, gear up being able to use it's thrusters to lift itself up high enough to switch to gerwalk mode. I'm wondering if this can be done in 1G, if so that would be very useful. Also if it can go from fighter to gerwalk could it go the other way once on the ground? I would like to here any ideas on this.

Off topic but take a look at this, it's around 2:53 and it shows how the mag works. And as far as I can recall the P90 has never had a jam of any kind so it works pretty well.

That's where I thought they were, thanks for the confirmation.

Okay so are these shots of the flight deck then? To me they looked like they are on the side of the ship but it could just have been the angle. Also those bays/elevators look a little too small for anything but Ghosts, but again that could just be me.

Wow that many... I was thinking 3 or 4 for the MQ. Also I forgot that the Battle Galaxy was kicking out Ghosts like a Pez dispenser, I wonder if VFs could use the same system. And thanks for the reminder on the SDF-1 and it's systems, sometimes there is just too much to remember at once

Mr March I get what you're saying and they are good points but what I was thinking was something along the lines of maybe 6 or 8 launch bays just to get an 'alert 5' off fast while the cats' do their thing. So not so much one or the other but I think a mix would be good. And I kinda forgot just how many cats the NMC have, guess part of me auto relates things to RL. Do we know how many cats the Quarter has?

I just took that and ran with it, also I was under the idea that he was asking why a VF had/needed landing gear. Sorry if I missed the point. Even if you are not storing them in gerwalk and transform them once you're on deck I still don't like the idea of having to taxi a VF around in gerwalk.

I would hate to be the Air Boss for a carrier that kept it's VFs in gerwalk mode on the deck. It would be like having a deck full of helos with skids, having to rig them with small wheels just to respot them and such (yes you could walk the VFs but a flight deck has enough going on without adding a few mechs walking around). Also having them in fighter mode allows the ground crew better access to more of the bird. And from the pilot's point of view it is far more helpful to be in fighter as to gerwalk when doing a pre-flight. Have you ever seen a pilot for something like a 747 do a walk-a-around? Not very many places that they can really get into not like a smaller aircraft closer to the ground where the pilot can run his hand along most of the bird. What I would like to see for the VFs is a launch system along the lines of the launch tubes from BSG or those drop bays from Babylon 5 (anyone remember those?). Mainly as a way to get the VFs out into space a little faster. And as for the SV-51s, I could see them reentering the launch tubes in battroid mode then having a mount or rail hook up to hold them in place as the retractable part of the tube opens giving the room needed to switch back to fighter mode. Not to sure about this, will have to look at it some more.

Man this is great, loving the whole thing, yes there are tracks that we already have but I don't care its all good GREAT. And one of the first things I did was listen to Sheryl's Aimo and promptly mixed it with an instrumental track of Voices, I like it. And also cut of the last part of the Special Service Medley and messed with it as well, that way I get a nice little 4 minute track. (nothing too great as I just play with this stuff for fun and I'm still learning things.) -EDIT- 200th post!

I hear that. All hail the last of the Grumman 'Cats, one Sierra Hotel bird.