VFTF1

Worse yet, by that time it'll be all gooey. Renewing request before it gets buried in current discussion: Can someone please point me to VF5SS's review of Shadow Chronicles? Thank you Pete

I'm glad some people here cry to the same things I cry to... But I think I probably cry more than anybody else, because most folks, even if they mention a series that has also made me cry, seem to always mention a specific episode or moment in the series. Me... I cry practically every couple of minutes when I'm watching something I like. I cried through Gurren Lagann from start to finish. The series is just so emotional that it's impossible not to cry - sometimes those are tears of joy, sometimes tears of sadness, usually a mixture of the two, because the series was about exactly that - it didn't shy away from Despair - the sadest of sad depths of despair... and then, in the very depths of that despair, it managed to pull you up to something amazing. That amazing thing would not have been possible if Gurren Lagann didn't immerse you in despair as well. Every episode has scenes worthy of tears. It is, after all, the greatest work of art, philosophy, story telling, animation, and music ever created in the history not just of the human race, but of the entire universe. As for other anime that made me cry... well... Gundam never made me cry. I'm usually either entertained, or bored out of my whits. It's like a chess game, Gundam is. Sometimes you marvel at the strategic turn of events and all the movements building on one another, and sometimes you just find yourself bored out of your whits. If only Turn-A-Gundam didn't have so many bad episodes intersperced with good ones which really ruin the pacing, I'm sure I'd cry more - but as things stand, an episode of Turn-A is usually composed of portions which (by themselves) are amazing and then get ruined by something pathetic happening a few seconds later. The bad pacing really destroys the emotional impact - not like Gurren Lagann, which has perfect pacing that just swells your emotions. Macross - you know... I don't really cry to Macross. I actually am totally like Hikaru Ichijo when it comes to Macross -I'm just a blank slate, an observer of other people's emotions. Although maybe that's a bad comparisson because Hikaru does get mad or sentimental sometimes, but that's pretty much the range of his dramatic persona: righteous indignation, confusion, or inexperienced attraction to women. I love Macross, but it doesn't make me cry. Macross sometimes makes me feel uplifted (like episode 12 of MF, when Ranka flies in and sings that song...I almost feel my eyes turning into little hearts and popping out of their sockets just before I fall over love struck)... Hm...what else? Transformers puts me to sleep. Sometimes I cry over how craptastically bad the franchise had become. Does that count? Neon Genesis Evangelion doesn't make me cry- it makes me think. It's such a great great series to think about. There is sooo much philosophy behind it that it's crazy and I just love to watch it as pure sci-fi. Ideon - now this series ges a strange reaction out of me. Namely - I would call it attempted emotion. I dunno. I'm sadly coming to the conclusion that I just don't like the famous Tomino at all Ideon should be very moving - it certainly tries to be - but it's a tad bit forced, like all of Tomino's works that I've seen to date. There's just something not quite right - hard to put my finger on it. In Turn-A it was the pacing, in MSG it was the sour character archetypes and the maddening about face in the story which transformed from a Real Robot strategic adventure into a space opera with super-evolved psychonic humans without so much as a proper smooth transition... I'm curious how the new Unicorn will come out - I really want to like Tomino's work, but so far the only good thing I can say about him is that he's prolific. Haruhi Suzumiya. Hard to cry over this one. More than anything it makes me warm inside and makes me laugh. Even when there are dangerous scenes or dramatic moments, it's just impossible not to laugh.... so - bad candidate for tears.... Last on the list? Terminator 4. Me and my dumped-for-two-lolis-who-will-dress-up-as-Tohsaka-Rhin-and-some-chick-from-Death-Note-But-Still-Talking-To-me-and-on-friendly-terms-girlfriend and I both cried while watching Terminator 4. I also cry when watching Star Wars usually. Particularly at critical points concerning Anikin Skywalker. But it's not like whailing gnashing crying...it's just...more like whelling crying...minor distinction maybe but there it is... Think, think, think... hm... I think that's pretty much it. Pete

Please direct me to the link with this review. I would very much like to read it. Pete

For the record, I think SDFM/DYRL is better than Citizen Kane, which I actually haven't even seen yet, so maybe I shouldn't compare the two... But my point is that I think SDFM TV (DYRL not so much story wise) is much, much better than lots of "serious" movies or at the very least their equal. I challenge anybody to name a serious, generally respected movie that is considered high art and I would probably be able - or at least willing - to make the case that SDFM TV either equals or exceeds said movie. Pete

You know what's interesting? I think Hasbro recently re-acquiring the rights to the Transformers G1 cartoon animation footage from TVloonland (or whatever they were called) is very interesting. Apparently, Hasbro were in the same position as Big West. They had the IP rights to Transformers, but TVLoonland (sic) had the rights to worldwide distribution of the cartoon footage. Hasbro just bought it back like a couple days ago, apparently because TVloonland (sic) was sinking under a mound of debt. Hasbro helped the TVloonland repay their debts and therefore not go bankrupt and in return they re-acquired the distribution rights to the animation of their IPs. Very interesting that this is the first time that I, as a TF fan, have ever heard that Hasbro didn't have the rights to the TF animation from G1. But there it is. Why didn't I ever hear about this before? Hmm.... Maybe it was because TVloonland was busy actually selling the cartoon in various formats while Hasbro was busy making new toys and new cartoons and that Live Action movie? Gee. Wouldn't it be neat if Harmony Gold made some new Robotech cartoons and robotech toys and gave us something NEW to talk about? Pete

Gubaba wrote: Exactly. That's why I dumped my Misa-girlfriend and started dating two high school lolis in the hopes of creating a Macross-like love triangle war...although I guess this one is a "love square" since my Misa-girlfriend still calls me sometimes, which puts psychological pressure on me. We'll see how long these two lolis last though. Younger girls are such a pain in the butt! Still, as Gubaba says - one must try to stay young and hip to the current "it"... Pete

Hi, I'm Pete and I support this hobby Sadly, thus far I only have Lyn Minmey and 1/8 Yoko. Minmey's best pose is in my sig As for Yoko....I put her picture in the Gurren Lagann topic. I'm aiming to get the Bounty Hunter Yoko you showed off next. After that, I'd LOVE to have the NA Sheryl from Macross Frontier, possibly the 1/8 Ranka and then I really wanna get Nia from Gurren Lagann too. That said, given limited resources, there's other stuff that I prioritize before these types of figures, like Socs, Macross, Gundams, and even Revoltechs. I'm interested in Yamato's VMF...er...VFM? ... line the super poseables with better butts than Revoltechs... But in general, fixed pose figures are certainly a work of art and wonderful wonderful items. Pete

But maybe that's because he didn't know any better? Maybe I should restate the question: Are there really people who, after having seen Macross (both SDFM and later series/OVAs) as well as having seen original Mospedia and Southern Cross, who STILL prefer Robotech as anything beyond either a nostalgic experience or a historical curiosity? Then again... I guess I shouldn't be too surprised... I'm not going to say people like that are 'wierd' because I get that accusation all the time for what I like. It's just... well...hm. Playing We Will Win during a wedding... hm.... Well - to each his own I guess But I'd still like someone to explain to me what they like about the song... I find it to be totally wrong headed - I mean, beyond the fact that it's just bad singing and bad music, it's also bad plot because - a) What kind of psychological attack is it to sing at your enemy that THEY WILL LOOSE - because effectively that's what happens. Minmey, by singing "we will win" motivates the RDF, but ...demotivates the Zendradi? b) And if the song is supposed to motivate the RDF and demotivate the Zendradi (because I can't see how the song is meant to motivate Zendradi...technically you could say that Bretai's forces which join the RDF are being motivated by it... but in Macross the song was supposed to bring culture shock to those soldiers of Boldoza's forces that were in the majority - not motivate Zendradi who had already been returned to Culture through a long exposure to Minmey/The Macross... I dunno... Pete

You know what's REALLY wrong with this argument? It's NOT whether or not they used words, whether or not they own the words of have the right to use them and whether or not "Robotech ever used Macross elements" (who ever denied that? Robotech uses 3-frickin-6 episodes of 'Macross elements' for cryn' out loud)... No. None of that is wrong. What IS wrong is: WHO CARES!? This is totally totally beyond the point - and the point is the STORY and the CHARACTERS and the MUSIC and the MECHA and the PLOT. And I'd really like to find a Robotech site where there is cogent discussion and passion for THOSE THINGS instead of constant attempts to prove that HG owns something or other. Heck - Robotech has tons of novels. Does ANYBODY even read those? Discuss them? There is rich material in those novels - I would presume that the Robotech fandom would be all over them. That there would be dedicated threads not just to seperate novels, but chapters even. WHERE is the discussion of how cool the show is? Of how cool the toys are? See - this is what I'm missing and not understanding. "Robotech fandom" seems to pretty much mean "knowledgeable about HG and their legal rights" and NOT "in love with Robotech." Again - if I'm wrong - I'll gladly be proven wrong. Just point me to a link that takes me to a place where Robotech fans are engaged in interesting commentary about the SHOW or the BOOKS or the TOYS so I can finally figure out why this fandom even exists - because for the life of me I CAN'T. I mean - are there REALLY people out there who would put "We will win" on their MP3 instead of Ai oboeteimasuka? Pete

This is simple. There are only three possible paths that this will all take: 1. HG becoms sane, stops banning people for having opinions or liking Yamatos and Macross and instead gets to work on great merchandise and a great show and tries to EARN their fans trust and money instead of using CR law and TOU to try to twist peoples arms. 2. The fandom splits into TWO DISTINCT FRONTS: A) Harmony Gold Fundamentalists B) Robotech Lovers The difference? Robotech lovers just love Robotech, they can't be assed about the legal mumbo jumbo, and they have no patience for flame wars. All they want to do is enjoy Robotech openly and without Big H sitting over their shoulder to make sure what they type is "appropriate." These people will have their own websites, their own forums, their own podcasts, their own online fanzines and rpgs and will just live in their own little world free of Harmony Gold. Meanwhile, Harmony Gold Fundamentalists will sit on RT.com and look for people to ban. 3) More and more Robotech fans begin to interact with Macross fans whether here on MW.com or in general. Because MW.com does not ban Robotech nor does it actively flame or discourage Robotech, and because the "no Robotech" rule on MW is not a general commandment, but rather a reminder that when we discuss Hikaru Ichijo, we really want to discuss Hikaru Ichijo and not Rick Hunter, and because MW has THIS thread for people who might want to discuss Rick Hunter and there is open debate here - more and more Robotech fans will see that "Macross Purists" are not people who would necessarily BAN you for saying "I like Robotech." See - to put it in religious terms - HG Fundies are like people whose faith commands them to beat the sh!t out of other people. Macross Purists are people whose faith commands them to love Macross and SHARE that love - not force it, not flame it, not compell it - but just share it. And in this sense, Macross Purists have no problem not just talking to RT lovers, but even going to sleep KNOWING that the RT lover...still...loves..Robotech (gasp!) And if this third scenario takes place- you wanna know what I think will happen? I think more and more Robotech lovers will become Macross purists. Yep. Not because they will be forced, not because they'll be convinced by Gubaba or me or other Macross Purists - but simply because while they hang out here and start to check out other threads, they will discover the world of the original Macross for themselves and come to love it. That's how much I believe in the power of Macross Macross does not need copy right laws and terms of use and C&D orders to survive. All it needs to do is be as good as it has been - and that'll draw people in. Harmony Gold and RT.com are sinking ships. Even Memo will eventually be turned to Macross Purism. It is inevitable. Pete

Oh it's just some irrelevent creature from some tv show or something called Fronting, or Fran's Tears. Not really important. Pete

I'm with UN Marine. I authentically want to know what people see in Robotech that makes them stick to it. The only things I could concievably come up with are the RPGs which I thought were very, very cool - but really, the RPG could just as well have been called 'Macross' since most of the time you could play without knowing a thing about the show, the plot of the show etc etc (which is how I played it when I was a kid). I understand the whole "Robotech made a contribution to bringing anime to America" but dung-houses were a big advancement over taking a sh!t in the grass next to your hut, but you don't see people refusing modern toilets because dung-houses (wooden shack built over deep hole where you sh!t could fall) were a historical milestone in feaces disposal. As to the "I like apples, you like oranges" (value relativism) point - yes. Of course. You're right. But you're only right as a matter of pure praxeology. However, just because we ought to tolerate one another's preferences doesn't mean we can't discuss them critically, and it also doesn't mean that all values are merely subjective in a pure sense. We make choices based on our thinking and feeling about something, and we take into account outside factors. Now - I'm not saying that there's a "right" choice here - I'm not saying Robotech fans are somehow "obliged" to "justify" their hobby or switch to Macross. All I'm saying is - I just wonder what people like about it. I wonder whether people can give some coherent arguments for it - can give reasons why it is interesting and, more importantly, why it is more interesting than Macross - interesting enough that you'd rather follow it than Macross, or that you can follow both etc. Final point - since nobody is advocating the oppression of Robotech fans or the forced conversion of Robotech fans to Macross, I see not reason to bring up the "values" argument since nobody is questioning Robotech fans right to hold their values for their own reasons. In fact, I usually find that when someone can't give any reasons, he resorts to the "everyone has subjective values" argument, as if opinions are all just random and people have no reason for holding them. I for one try to think about what is most enjoyable and I am happy when other people give thoughtful reasons for why they enjoy what they enjoy, because it helps me learn from them. So...again I ask the question: why do people like Robotech? What's so compelling about the story, characters, plot etc that people call themselves Robotech fans? Because so far, all I've seen (and I'll admit it might be because I haven't seen very much), are the following reasons: 1. Because HG's terms of use don't allow me to even google Macross and find out how awesome the series is, so instead I spend my whole time at RT.com repeating what Memo tells me. 2. Because I really want to know what happened to Rick Hunter 3. Because I remember it from when I was a kid 4. Because I don't know anything about Macross, and keep conflating the two. But never ever any actual reasons. Like... Remember the great discussions we had following each consecutive episode of MF on these boards? Remember all the topics about SDFM TV vs. DYRL? Heck - even the impassioned Macross 7 hate threads. All of them are choke full of thoughtful arguments, humor, analysis and people showing a real passion for the stories, characters and mecha - one way or another. I go on RT.com and I don't see that with regard to Robtoech. All they are preoccupied with is WHEN the LAM will come out. WHAT rights HG has and doesn't have etc etc. It's all technicalities. I don't see any love of the actual shows. I don't see any "Strike a Pose" topics with people showing off their "Masterpiece" Veritechs... I just see lots and lots of legal bumbojumbo... Pete

I voted Mikomoto. Who is the other person? Pete

Well - I still would be curious of your take on my Ranka/Minmey analysis, because I just see far more similarities between the two based on the book than there had been based ony just watching the shows. As to the technicalities - it's all interesting, but while I do believe that original intent, or in this case who was behind what, is important in a book... then in the case of stories where there are multiple creators and where a story actually has multiple components (visual, dialogue, voice acting...all of this influences how we see the story).... it's actually secondary to discuss who did what. Not saying it's irrelevent - but that it shouldn't overshadow the actual work itself - which takes on a life of its' own. As for the Red Light District - this does not surprise me. The whole point of the Macross is that civilians decide to lead relatively normal lives despite living on a star ship during an intergalactic war. If there are going to be chinese reastaurants, singing contests, cafes, schools, churches and lingerie shops then of course there will also be a red light district - and if there wasn't, there would just be a lot of red lights Pete

Isn't it obvious? FLOWER POWER!! Pete

Well - you answer your own point there with that last sentence. I mean, if it's true that the voice actor's scripts ar written only after the story boards are complete, and sometimes actually once footage is made, then it's not surprising that the dialogue is totally different although... you did say the book was written after the show, or towards the end? But maybe it was just compiled and published towards the end/after the show, but was actually written prior to it? I mean - couldn't this stuff have originally been notes or ideas or snippets of a story? I'm sure there were multiple versions of what finally got condensed into the episodes themselves? And - speaking as a complete amateur here - because I have no where near the research experience, let alon language experience that you have - but I think it would be common sense to apply a good rule of thumb that you keep reminding people to use when looking at the different Macross OVAs and series: namely "don't get too hung up on the particulars of continuity." Personally, I really don't see very many continuity problems in Macross (but that's possibly because I'm coming at it from the world of Transformers, which is just a total mess). However, those areas where there does appear to be a continuity problem, I think it's true that we need to look at the series and OVAs as takes on a meta-story. That is to say, there's this mythology that kind of sort of goes "a, b, c" - but it's up to particular productions to sometimes capitalize one or two letters and keep others lower-case... I don't know if that's a good analogy?... Anyways - point is - couldn't we look at this book the same way? Or do you have definitive knowledge that it was written at a very certain date, and that none of it was sourced from prior scripts and production material that was bandied about whil making the episodes? Finally - as to whether or not Macross Frontier is a homage to this book (insofar as episode 4 goes) - maybe. That is one way of looking at it. However - the feeling I got was that it wasn't a homage but a fulfillment. I got the sense reading those scenes in My Fair Minmay that Kawamori had a certain vision of Minmey being a goofy, stumbling little girl who had big dreams but was also very naive, inexperienced and shy about her looks - and poof - she became a cinderella. I mean - heck - they even CALL Minmey a Cinderella in this book. Now - I get the feeling this is the vision Kawamori had for Minmey. But that vision got choped down. And let's take one more item. What is the SOLE difference between Minmey and Ranka when comparing MF to My Fair Minmey? It's this: Minmey is a hottie with boys tripping over themselves to date her. She IS insecure about her looks, but she's definitely a hottie in the eyes of other men and boys. Now, ALL high school girls think themselves to be fat and ugly. Seriously. Anybody with a teenage daughter will testify to it. Few young girls are mature enough (emotionally) to recognize whether they are truly attractive or whether they have real physical definiciences which need to be addressed. So Minmey's being shy about her looks and thinking she has fat legs etc in no way contradicts the legions of boys who oogle and want to go out with her. But Ranka on the other hand...Now...I think Ranka is a beautiful beautiful girl. BUT - she certainly doesn't fit the immediate definition of a beautiful girl. She has short croppy hair, not the flowing hair that the far more feminine Minmey has. She is very skinny. Minmey's "fat" legs are actually extremely well proportioned. Looked at only as a leg - then yes - it probably is "fat" - but looked at as part of her whole body - it's a "perfect fit" that makes her an attractive woman. Young girls just don't understand how to look at themselves yet because they are only starting to learn how men percieve them (it's the same for guys - it takes a while for guys to understand what women look at). Anyways - Ranka on the other hand, is not "wll proportioned." She's just skinny. Childishly skinny. It's like she's th girl who still hasn't "sprouted" and she has to compete with all these babes. Finally - Ranka does NOT have legions of men oogling her and wanting to date her. Even Alto thinks she's "wierd" when they first meet. And actually, EVEN when she becomes a star - she doesn't have such an erotic following as Sheryl does. People love her for her songs and the inspiration, but there's not a lot of sexuality going on there. Now what SDFM-TV did was it took Minmey's sexuality and her trouble with dating guys and kept that, but it threw away her self-doubt, her conviction that she's ugly, and her clumsiness - aka - threw away everything that made her similar to Ranka. It even threw away the "Cinderella" story - because the impression one gets from SDFMTV is that Minmey is just a talented, popular, beautiful "girl next door" who makes it big. This is NOT Cinderella. Minmey was already singing and starting to gain success on Atara Island. She just continues onboard the Macross. She has poise, elegence and grace, and despite her youth and relative inexperience, she is cocky and knows how to use her charms to flirt with men. So - a very very different picture from Ranka, yes? But then we see the book...and Minmey is a virgin, she finds the image of loosing her virginity "gross" - it's all very new to her. Her dreams of her "dream man" from the diary are standard young girl fair - not the stuff of more sophisticated, experienced women. Her dating experience is vast, but only because guys keep demanding that she go out with them. The Creme date shows it perfectly. She's just being polite. She doesn't want to be rude or make anyone upset. So she agrees to date everybody, but naturally can't help but be bored and ends up upsetting them anyways. This is because when a guy askes Minmey out and she says yes, the guy stupidly always thinks "yeah! Super hot Minmey picked ME!" but in reality - she was just being polite. But politeness can only go so far - your real feelings eventually start to show if something displeases you - and so Minmey gets bored and the guys get annoyed. This isn't Minmey's fault - she just doesn't really take the dates as seriously as the guys proposing them. And she doesn't really know herself enough to know what kind of man she is looking for. So - see - even in this sense, we get a completely different image of Minmey than what the series shows us - where she seems far more cocky and sure of herself, and certainly far more conscious of her charms as a woman and ability to flirt with guys (although in all fairness I guess this is really most visible later on when she's a star and she's flirting with her cousin, ticking Hikaru off etc)... Anyways - point is - the book puts the stress on the Cinderella Minmey that the series doesn't show us. Now - in my view - what might have happened was that Kawamori wanted Minmey to be like what we saw of Ranka in Macross Frontier, but somewhere between the story and the story board and the final VA script, Minmey got changed and all the Ranka-ish elements were tossed away. With Macross Frontier, I imagine Kawamorii (who was the director, right?) had far FAR more license to do as he wanted, and judging from this book, I think he just managed to make in Ranka what he had always wanted to do with Minmey. For me - this is a very very fresh look at Macross and Macross Frontier. People keep talking about how Macross Frontier is an homage. I never fully agreed with that; particularly with those voices who made the radical argument that Macross Frontier is bad because it offers nothing new, but instead recycles stuff from old series. It's my interpretation here that, based on My Fair Minmey, we can see that Macross Frontier is actually "Macross as Kawamorii originally intended it to be." We can see that in the character of Ranka compared to the Minmey portrayed in the book vs the series. The book Minmey is so clearly identical to Ranka that it is obvious to me that Kawamorii finally managed to put the super star idol story HE concieved on screen with Macross Frontier - the story he wasn't able to get through in the original Macross. This makes Macross Frontier the best Macross series and the most unique Macross series because it shows us what Kawamorii always dreamed of doing - done perfectly right. Pete

Well, I'm still half way through - but I will point out what I saw as similarities to Ranka: 1. Minmay's clumsiness. In the show, she does fall, but her fall is intertwined with Hikaru getting blasted by Zendradi - so it's kind of like we see both of them having a bad moment. In the book, her fall is elaborated upon and she just comes across as goofy. Now - when she fell in the show, I thought "accident." But reading the book I think "clumsy goofy girl" - ergo Ranka. I mean - Minmey, in the show, when she walked out in the Chinese dress, had poise and elegence and confidence. Not arrogance, but certainly confidence. So, when she tripped in her bikini I just thought - bad luck. Authentic accident. But in the book it's clear that she's a bit clumsy, possibly due to extreme nervousness. 2. Minmay's butt and the small of her back: This whole scene, and her speech about how she thinks her legs are too thick etc etc just so reminds me of Ranka's self-doubt and belief that she's physically inferior. Again, in the show, she answers questions about how old she is and whether she has a boyfrind and she's pretty cute about it... In the book, she goes into a long winded diatribe about how bad she looks. This, again, reminds me of Ranka, who was visibly concernd about her looks... 3. Th dressing room scene - with those two girls arguing lik cynical concieted bitches. This scene in the book totally reminded me of the dressing room scene in MF's episode 4, with all the other haughty women. Thus the impressions. Pete

Oh don't worry I'm not selling them all because nobody's buying them all :) I guess my "problem" got solved. I'm stuck with my G1 collection that I've always dreamed of having. The only thing I can do now is be happy about it. I've even dug up some old fanfiction that I wrote when I was 14 years old. It holds up pretty well. I'm going to try to re-use some of the stories to make new Transformers adventure comics with my G1 toys. Life is short. Might as well enjoy the silly little things. Pete

Ever since getting my new car, I have been happily listening to some old CDs that were in storage for a long time - amongst them Boston, Europe, Alice Cooper, Bruce Springstien, Blurr, Orbital and Smashing Pumpkins. I've also started listening to a particular radio station which has a knack for playing good music from multiple genres. Of what I've heard - I don't know who does the songs, because I actually don't follow the music industry that closely - but here is a list of tunes I've enjoyed - maybe somebody can tell me who sings them? 1. "Where did all th Love go?" - this is agreat retro song, with a distinctive sixties feel, but not in the corny sense. It's a serious song, with a great revolutionary ferver to it. 2. "I'll keeel you." - I'll Kill You - sung by a French girl in English. It's hilariously entertaining because of her French accent. It's about a girl whose boyfriend got taken by another woman, and she goes into a sob story, or rather in this case a sob song, about how her future has been stollen and how she'll "keel" the bitch who took her man. It's a hoot. 3. Dominos... I think that's the name of the song... but the chorus goes "These girls fall like dominos" and I like it because it's about women who are easy - or at least I think it is. I hope it is. There are a bunch of other ones but mostly forgetable. Although - still... I listen to Fire Bomber, the Metal songs from Gurren Lagann, and the songs from Haruhi Suzumiya on my MP3 most of all. Pete

Don't come down too harsh on my detractor guys I actually agree with him. I think it's worth noting here that I have not always been a G1 purist. I was totally supportive of BW and while I did find some of the criticisms of BW, particularly Raksha's amusing, sometimes insightful, and fun - I never ultimately could understand the fanatical desire to not part with the original mythos. I enjoyed BW throughout. I had my problems with BM, but still enjoyed it for th most part. Heck - I EVEN enjoyed RID/Car Robots - even though it was quite ambiguous in terms of where this fit into the time line. The problems all started with Armada. Then, when Energon came out, I mellowed, and finally Cybertron seemed ok too... Then came the movie...I loved the concept, was excited about it and wasn't bothered by the designs. In fact - I was dead set on getting each and every movie toy and focusing on the movie exclusively. Then - I got the toys. Holy shi!t did they suck. They were the worst Transformers toys ever made. I say this because I expected the Movie toys to take what was best out of all previous lines and give us this fantastic line of Transformers toys that would be worthy of the first, long long awaited live action TF movie to hit cinemas. Instead we got arguably the worse toy line in TF history from the point of view of - well - everything - screen accuracy, paint application, poseability, materials used...everything everything everything. But I bought the whole "because it was a rush job" argument. I figured to myself -ok - now that the movie has made a gazillion USD and the second one is coming - I'm sure they're work extra hard on the toys. Wrong. Enter ROTF Devastator. No way. That did it. That there just did it. That was such a watershed event that I gave up on Transformers all together. Wierd? Irrational? Maybe. But when it comes to Transformers, I'm like a woman. Women have a knack for being in love with a guy for years and years and years and worshiping the guy and believing the guy can do no wrong and being blind to all his faults. Then the guy makes ONE mistake (in the eyes of the woman). And this opens up a floodgate of 'oh my god - who have I been with all this time?' That happened to me and TFs. Th crap movie toys made be go back and reasses all of the other TF lines and I decided I was just being too tolerant of what Hasbro was doing. I was sticking with it out of loyalty to a brand which stopped giving me any pleasure whatsoever... all because of misplaced fanboy hopes that some spark of that early magic would be rekindled. I do like the first TF movie. I do appreciate it. But I can't collect the toys and I'm totally bored by the rebooting of the mythos over and over and over again. What I like about G1 is that there is SOOO much more to the story than just Megatron vs. Prime Autobots vs. Decepticons and there are sooo many other characters in the mythos out there. Instead, for a decade now ALL we've gotten is just a reboot of the basic story of Transforming robots fighting and the focus being Optimus/Megatron and a bunch of secondary characters that everyone forgets once the next reboot comes along. And th damn gimmick has become king. I mean - the gimmick has stopped being a feature of the toy, but instead has become a motive force in plot after plot... It's all wrong and bad and icky poo Pete

I seriously would like someone to point me to some half way intelligent reasons being given by a Robotech fan why the series is worth it... I mean...anywhere. Any. At all. I get the feeling that Macross fans who criticize Robotech actually love it more than Robotech fans - because when they criticize, they keep referencing particular episodes, novels and story lines - ergo demonstrating they have read, viewed and thought about what they are discussing... Do Robotech fans even actually... you know...watch the series anymore? Or read the novels? Or anything? Pete

I'm halfway through it - but would like to share one very deep impression: Namely - only now, reading this book, do I get the feeling that the character and story of Minmey as Kawamori envisioned it, or as it was originally envisioned by the story writers of Macross, was not full realized until they got a chance to do Ranka. I mean - there is just so much resemblence of Minmey in this book to Ranka. And yes, I understand that "in fact" it's the other way around - that Ranka is made to resemble Minmay - but having only watched the series and never read the book, I was not privy to certain scenes or behaviors or adjectives being used to describe Minmey that lo and behold happen to fit perfectly with Ranka. Kawamori writes that the stories are laced with the idiosyncracies of the authors, and that they are NOT the same as what the voice actors read, which are made only once the story boards are fleshed out. And indeed, we see that a lot of the intention behind the Minmey character got lost when things were fleshed out into the series. And that intention is clear - it is clear that Kawamori meant for the Minmy character to be what Ranka ended up being. very interesting. As I read this book, I felt like Minmey was reflecting Ranka on many levels that are not apparent in the series, where she seems to always be popular and on a straight trajectory to stardom, not a "cinderella" story. Pete

They make it sound like it was some feat of amazing creative genius to tie together three unrelated anime with a lame "plot" and some bad dubs, when the only instance where Harmony Gold had a chance to actually CREATE something - namely Sentinels - they couldn't get past three episodes and some story boards. Way to go creative team. Pete

But Sam's mom is so hot! I'd rather the focus be on her than on Megan Fox. Pete

Yes, but then again what has Honkhet done that was not awesome? Everything he's shown off in the models thread has been awesome Pete