VFTF1

Eh? Graham makes pedophilia a litmus test for whether or not he's attracted to another guy? Seriously though: this thread can't be allowed to die! Ergo - I will breath new life into it with the following thoughts: In Episode 5 of Frontier, Sheryl gushes over how great Frontier is and how horrible Galaxy is - aesthetic wise. I wonder - how would Sheryl have found City 7? To my mind, City 7 was, much like the original Macross City onboard the...er...Macross... somewhat homogenous in outward appearance. Beyond Basara's brick dive and the general disshevled nature of his "underground rebellious slum" district, it appeared to me that not much effort went into the design of City 7. More effort was given to creating a diversity of "ships" - the Einstein, Holywood and all those others... (my favorite being the Sunflower Farm ship )... Anyways - I prefer what they've done in Frontier; by which I mean - they've obviously made a huge effort to get the design of the cities down pat and make them very interesting. I never got a feeling for City 7 beyond homogeneity, whereas Frontier has it's own style that is unique. Thoughts? VFTF1

I see I havet o finally get around to watching episode 15... The Vatican is not a person And I think it's Sharon Apple. Why? Because there have been almost no other Macross: Plus homages whatsoever in Frontier, which is otherwise full of homages. So in the end, the AI has to somehow be connected to Sharon Apple and her strange, murky plans... VFTF1

I actually think this is true. They just seemed so tailor made for one another in that one scene where Sheryl wants to fly out looking for Alto. As for the Jamming Birds - I could never stand that guy who tried to get into Mylene's panties but got zapped by the Vampire...Bobby, I think his name was... It's nice that the name Bobby has now been bestowed on a more worthy character. As for Alto - strangely - I can see him saying "Finally those two have left me alone!" .... and Bob Joe Mac is right - he is being extremely Darwinian in his treatment of the girls... "Oh, Sheryl's sick and traumatized after being in a war? Tough! I'm goin' flyin' with this 13 year old chick!" But then again - Alto WAS supposed to take Ranka back to Frontier for her first live, wasn't he? That's why they went flying... they just wanted to "hang out" in the sky for a bit before returning to Frontier... Oh - and actually - it WAS Mikhael who prodded Alto into taking Ranka up for a flight - as he's been prodding Alto to pay more attention to Ranka from the beginning... So Alto wasn't really being all that cruel to Sheryl - was he? Question is: why does Mikhael keep prodding Alto to be with Ranka? VFTF1

I am a big fan of the fact that not only cars, but buildings and even landscapes all harken back to something on Earth...after all, Frontier is just one big San Fran:) ... As for Ozma liking old cars - well... he likes old women as well VFTF1

You know what will happen? In the end, BOTH Sheryl and Ranka will realize Alto is a dweeb and decide to be together and leave him to his Valkyrie VFTF1

Well, I won't press the point because my intention is not to bad mouth Sheryl, but rather to defend Ranka. Of course it's actually very hard to know "What to do" in emergency situations. To be fair to Sheryl, I remember getting stuck in an elevator once. I pressed the alarm button...didn't work. I tried calling out...didn't work...nobody responded...I waited patiently, since there was a small window in the elevator door and I was stuck between floors, so I could see if people were mulling about - and I saw them - and called out to them...they didn't hear me...or maybe they just ignored me... In the end, I don't know whether it was claustrophobia or a vision of Bruce Willis in Die Hard walking on all that glass, but I leveled back and kicked through the window, shattering it. That got everybody's attention People appeared ... sadly - contrary to my hopes - they started yelling at me for being a vandal Finally, some kid helped me get out of the elevator... but most of the people kept yelling at me for breaking the glass My point here is that one never knows what will happen and what will work and what won't... so - yeah - I'm not saying Sheryl sucks or anything... I'm just saying Ranka is a more preferable girlfriend VFTF1

But you don't have to fly a Valkyrie to be in combat. Ranka was in combat the moment she flew in. Mikhael was piloting, she was singing - with the cockpit open, standing up and then out in the open where should could have gotten shot, and not wearing any protective armor...and she managed to win: because she believed in her music. Sheryl had pilot training, protective armor, and a Valkyrie - but managed nothing except to put Mikhael's life at risk and get the Valkyrie destroyed...because she doesn't believe in her own music. VFTF1

I think that's due to the hostage situation. If Sheryl had just collapsed, it would just be "poor sick Sheryl, I wonder if she's ok?" - but since they were taken hostage then that shot to the forefront of Ranka's concerns. Sure, her primary concern was Alto, who she is in love with - but you can't deduce from the fact that she loves Alto the presumption that she doesn't care about the fate of Sheryl or any of the others. It would be impossible for Ranka to have sung her song and turned the Zentrans if she totally didn't care about the welfare of others. Heck - it would be impossible for her to love Alto - I mean - love is not infatuation; and Ranka has demonstrated that she is not blindly infatuated; she is a caring person and she loves Alto. So it's not right to say she doesn't care about Sheryl - although certainly as the episodes progress, she is becoming a bit wary of Sheryl... but Sheryl is also becoming wary of her: the girls ARE after all competing for the affections of the same guy. But this doesn't mean that Ranka has to hate Sheryl or wish her dead. Also; thus far, it is Ranka who has succeeded in a combat situation (episode 12) while Sheryl has failed miserably (episode 14) largely because Sheryl does not believe in her music, while Ranka does. VFTF1

That's one thing I like about Macross - that it takes "galaxy" to be something very big. Lots of "space" sci-fi dramas make me think the galaxy is really small - they keep wisking around the universe, but indeed our galaxy is huge, and Macross Frontier does a good job with this. VFTF1

I would say he's not so much "fine with love" as he is oblivious to love. If he sees Ranka as a little sister, then he certainly sees Sheryl as a big sister if anything - he is certainly prudish, as Sheryl notes on numerous occasions, and even proves in episode 10 with the kisso. Yes, but this is testimony to how lonely and sad Sheryl is, not to how wonderful Alto is. Alto isn't blown over by Sheryl's fame because Alto doesn't think much of anybody. It's not some special emotional ability that Alto has worked hard on for Sheryl's benefit. His pesonality is just such that he isn't the type to be bowled over by other people's achievements. I mean, he requested that Ozma give him a Valkyrie just because he thinks he did a pretty good job flying one. He didn't care that Ozma was a Vet, had to go through training etc etc. Alto thinks himself to be the best there is - both in terms of his piloting skills, and in terms of his looks (mirror scene). Sheryl annoys him on a different level, but still annoys him - just like Ranka does. It's not like Alto ever DIDN'T act annoyed with Sheryl. So the point here is that it's not that Alto is such a great guy, it's just that Sheryl has mental and emotional problems and needs someone like Alto; who doesn't care about her fame. How is this different from Ranka needing Alto as an inspiring figure in her life? Maybe I just didn't make myself clear. First, obviously just because someone plans on doing something in the hope of achieving a certain outcome, doesn't mean the real outcome will be anywhere close to the one hoped for... But - so what if his Dad didn't want to talk to him in episode 4? Ozma punched him in Episode 2, but did that stop Alto from coming back? Mikhael told him he would jeapordize other people, but did that stop Alto from entering SMS? Alto is stubborn - if he really wants something he is capable of achieving it. So...why can't he confront his Dad like a man and tell him that he loves flying and that will all due respect, he will continue to be a pilot and wants his Dad to be proud of him? Reason: because Alto is scared. He "runs away" as Mikhael always puts it. Alto is a natural pilot - so we shouldn't think him extremely brave for flying a Valkyrie, since that's what he's good at. It doesn't take much courage to do what you enjoy and what you're skilled in doing. It WOULD take courage to try to reunite with his Dad. And the fact that his Dad is being stubborn and sill about it is no surprise - after all - Alto had to get his silly stubborness SOMEWHERE. But taking Ranka along WOULD have worked because Ranka is a miracle worker. Remember how Alto and Sheryl started quarreling in the airlock, and then Ranka offered everyone Maguro Mans which looked like breasts? Anger turned to laughter and smiles. Alto's Dad was sick, he was afraid of maybe dying. He just wanted to see his son again - but being a stubborn SOB, he of course concocted the whole "tell him to come back and all will be forgiven" - and I'm sure the Successor also proded the old Man, out of fear that he might die without seeing his son (the "his life is not in danger" line should be taken with a grain of salt. Any time a fellow can't move out of his bed and people start saying "his life is not in danger"...then you know that old age or illness is starting to get the better of them!). Alto should have brought Ranka. So what if Birdhuman was vulgar? Ranka is a wonderful girl and very persuasive. I think ultimately part of the reason Alto has trouble with girls is because he, like his father, is too focused on his work and doesn't want to open up with his emotions. If Alto really wants to be free of his past, it's not enough to pilot a valkyrie instead of being a classical actor. He is obviously behaving EXACTLY like his father and making all the same mistakes. Notice that we haven't seen Alto's Dad interact with ALto's mom AT ALL. Maybe that's why both Alto Jr. and Senior are so gruff, stubborn and insensitive? Because they don't have the soothing love of a good woman. Alto will make a big mistake not accepting Ranka's love. So what if it's a Cinderralla story? If a cute girl like Ranka is in love with you and wants to give herself to you - you TAKE VFTF1

But it's those blinkers and her faith and romantic vision of life that make Ranka so lovable. If anything, Alto needs to stop being such a stuck up prude who constantly views every situation in life as a battle between will and fate and just learn to accept love Sometimes, I think Sheryl "wins" him over because she is argumentative and stubborn and Alto likes to quarrel with people. Look at his friendship with Mikhael or his relationship with Ozma (punch! "I'll kill you!" etc). Everyone that Alto has a connection to is always someone who mouthed off to him when ever he got uppity. Heck - even Canalia, who gave him a quiet albeit somber lecture on "reasons for joining SMS"... Ranka is the only one who doesn't mouth off to him or argue with him - she's just normal and nice to him. If anything - it's Alto who's acting like a 12 year old by seeking out confrontation in every situation. In fact - since we're on the subject of his birthday - you know what I think Alto should have done? Naturally I think he should have gone to his dad! He didn't necessarily have to quit being an SMS pilot - but he should have accepted the invitation and at least showed that he cared for his dad and tried to convince him that he was serving honorably as a pilot; and accepting the praise for being in Birdhuman. Alto could have also brought Ranka with him - to meet his dad and to create a situation making it impossible for his dad to get angry and start yelling at him (for fear of making a bad impression in front of a stranger/woman). But Alto acted like a 12 year old and ran off into a dangerous situation with a buxon blonde. Thankfully, the mature sensible Ranka saved him VFTF1

JBO has it right. DYRL is the visual canon not just in terms of Exedol, but mecha and just about everything else - in fact; notice that in the "flashbacks" to Space War I in Macross: Frontier, you clearly have the DYRL situation - with Hikaru and Roy being captured by Breetai. But I think there is no way to get around the fact that SDF M TV is the driving plot motor. I would in fact venture the hypothesis that DYRL would NOT WORK as a dramatic story if not for the amount of emotions that audiences would have had invested in the characters going into the theater. If I may be forgiven a somewhat crass comparisson (albeit, my nick IS vfTF1...)... Little kids would not be crying in theaters at the death of Optimus Prime in the original Transformers Movie if not for two consecutive seasons which invested heavily in building up that character. Now, obviously DYRL is a story in its' own right with a lot of character development - but I still contend that as we watch it, we are subconsciously influenced by our previously ingrained emotions regarding the SDF M TV characters... As for the specific question - well... I guess Exedol's DYRL look lends itself to the Zentrans being alien and, more importantly, being bread. I guess it's just something we have to accept and pass up. Personally - I always explain it as follows: Exedol ALWAYS LOOKED LIKE THAT - IN SDF M TV AS WELL. The difference? In SDF M TV - he didn't shave his head. VFTF1

Well, personally I don't think it's right to extrapolate that Bassara is a-sexual just because the series shows that he is primarily focused on getting his music across to the enemy and stopping the war. I would imagine that under more normal circumstances, he would have been more intent on developing a relationship... But maybe despite his age, he is just not ready for a relationship? After all, given how driven he is and how deeply involved he is in trying to "find the right music" (after all, often times he thinks that his songs just aren't right and that's why he's not getting through to the Protodevilin), he doesn't seem to know himself yet - and if you're that confused about who you are, while at the same time being convinced of how to "get" where you hope to "go" - I guess you don't really need a relationship... Although - I think he does love Mylene; he just isn't the type to say it, but when he lost his voice and walked out on the Chiba experiments, making Mylene mad and jelous ("you're just jealous that my song made the sound unit work!") Basara smiles - I interpret his reaction to mean that he is hoping that Mylene will succeed; that her inner beauty will flow thanks to her song - and indeed, later - it does; and she saves his voice using the power of song... which for Bassara has to have been a very intimate experience. As for Rex - well... who knows what happened between them? All in all, it is true that the romantic angle in M7 is skewed because the male lead, while being "loved" does not reciprocate - kind of like Alto actually, and unlike Hikaru, Isamu, Guld, Shin and Roy; who all - in their own way- do find happiness in their relationships... I dunno - I just think that in all seriousness Bassara is an artist and not a "rocker" in the groupies/heroine sense. He demonstrates that contemporary rock and roll can have a higher cultural purpose - as Minmey demonstrated that sentimental pop music does not have to just be "mere entertainment." The stereotype of the sex/drugs obssessed rocker is tossed out in favor of the idea of the serious, unconventional, philosophically driven artist who takes culture seriously as a means for changing people from the inside. Bassara is basically a return to the "original" counterculture revolution in contradistinction to the "corporatized/commercialized" MTV generation - where music became more of a business than a political movement to change the world. VFTF1

I wouldn't blame her for this - after all, she was very caught up in her work; and I get the feeling that she hasn't quite learned how to balance out her personal life with her newly found profesional life at that early stage which was Alto's birthday. Griffith Observatory is not Ranka's "special place" - it is Ranka AND Alto's special place: in Ranka's eyes, at least - this is where she fell in love with him; this is where Alto told her so many kind words and encouraged her and asked her to sing for him. Can you really blame her for thinking, for hoping, that Alto also has such fond memories of this place? It's like Star Hill in Macross Plus: it's a place full of fond memories of first love. Ranka is being ROMANTIC asking Alto there - not selfish... As for Sheryl really giving Alto what he wished for - well - look how that turned out. lesson: if you don't want to get caught in an internecine Zentran civil war, attacked by bugs and almost eater by a planet consumming dimmensional eater: pick cookies and Ranka! VFTF1

I often misspell Hayase's name ... forgiveness. VFTF1

You know - I never got the feeling that they seperated or anything. It's so patently obvious they love eachother. As to the matter of MW and whether it is a good or bad thing to be on the boards while watching .... I think it's GREAT! It's like group sex or something! No wait...bad analogy! I personally like all the discussion - I guess it reminds me of being in college; reading great books and then going to class to have insightful discussions about them with your fellow classmates and the Prof. It's so much funner than just watching/reading alone. And finally - just an aside; I understand the whole "Gay/Macross 7" joke/innuendo thing - but for a moment I want to take it semi-seriously and ask...what is it based on?? I mean - Bassara is in love with Sivil (totally hot babe), loved by Rex (totally hot babe), possibly in love with and loved by Mylene (cute babe), constantly chased by flower girl (cute babe) and himself has absolutely no homo-erotic inclinations or experiences. The only hint of homo-eroticism was the "Basara and Gamlin are lovers" tabloid article - which was of course a big joke... I just don't see where the idea of Bassara being gay or M7 being gay developed? Is it the general notion that singing and rock and roll are gay? VFTF1

Ranka is Selfish? Sure...that's why she risked her life to save Sheryl, Alto, and avert a Zentran civil war. That's also why she cares so much about Ozma, and of course it's why she sings - because she wants to promote herself and not because she believes "culture is love, song is culture, so song is love" - oh wait!... Seriously - Ranka is, of course, selfish, insofar as she is a happiness-oriented person. She seeks out that which brings happiness and spreads it her self because spreading happiness is as rewarding as recieving it. But she is not "selfish" in the bad sense of being self-absorbed or shallow. She loves Alto because Alto INSPIRES her - not because he's "pretty." As to understanding why people fly...Ranka has NO PROBLEM with people flying. She is, however, worried about people fighting in wars. Big difference. To blame Ranka for worrying that her loved ones will die while also calling her "selfish" is totally contradictory. And about Sheryl "getting in the way of her singing" ...umm...Ranka was herself a big Sheryl fan in the beginning - and in fact Sheryl is STILL an inspiration to her. Heck - the biggest Sheryl fangirl in the show is Ranka! Ranka demonstrates that she has compassion for Sheryl in episode 6, where during the concert Ranka supports Sheryl all the way. I can't understand why anyone would have anything bad to say about Ranka. Add to that the fact that she is way cuter than Sheryl and sings better. VFTF1

Well, I honest to god can't/don't see the Sheryl/Misa parallels - interview or no interview... Let me try to imagine Misa being "Sherylish"... Misa: Skull leader! How dare you question my orders!? I'm Misa! MISA HAYES! Misa: I've signed up for singing lessons! I'm MISA! MISA HAYES! I'll mussle in on Minmey's turf because I'm the best and can do it all! Misa: I'm going to pilot my Valkyrie into battle! I'll show you! I'm Misa! MISA HAYES!! Misa: What's that Captain? You'll be giving me my own Command? Naturally! I'm Misa! MISA HAYES! I deserve three Commands! Of course - I guess when I think about Misa, I think about SDF M TV, not DYRL - so maybe that's where I'm going wrong... VFTF1

Seven was way more drawn out - that's for sure - but I actually think this was not a bad thing. Macross: Frontier seems to be more like a longer OVA than a series. M7 was more like a series - a good series reels you in to a world and fills that world with as much "filler" space as possible - besides; it was so in keeping with Bassara's mode. Many episodes actually just revolved around Bassara's emotions - around some zany "problem" that Bassara invented out of thin air - because he needed space, because he needed inspiration, because he needed to think... lots of it was just a reflection of Bassara himself being very drawn out and chaotic. It's hard to make a "paced" series about an artist, because art is anarchic and refuses to be paced... So... I don't think this was a weakness in M7 - it's just a characteristic tied to Bassara being the artist; and the artist and journey being the focal point of the series. VFTF1

Eh? How so? Basara is annoying because he has a deep belief in his philosophy - the idea that music can overcome division and violence and serve as a universal language. Sheryl is annoying because she's an uppity celebrity who is cynical, flirty, and who views music as a commercial venture; something to be sold. Her one redeeming quality is her ambition and ability to have fun in life - but she's no Bassara. She's not out there trying to save the universe with her music... I see no comparisson between the two. Actually - no one can compare to Bassara. He's unique. If anyone else can compare - it's the LEGEND of Lyn Minmey (not the real thing) - but the legend that Basara and all the others hold to "the songstress who brought peace to the galaxy through song" - this is the only comparisson to Bassara. VFTF1

That's nothing. I had a friend in high school who pretended he was a girl in order to get guys and make them gay and it worked pretty well! As for me - I'd be the Captain of the Macross Quarter. He's pretty much just like me. Likes to slap girls' butts, make macho remarks, and eat sushi. Fits my definition of happiness and my approach to life. VFTF1

That happens a bit after Bassara "dies" - he decides to find out what he sings for. Can't place the episode beyond saying it's somewhere round the thirties. Soob.... I want my Macross 7!! :( :( :( bombaaaa! VFTF1

I find it interesting that there is this recurring argument of how Ranka = Minmey and Sheryl = Misa because Ranka/Minmey = Immature while Sheryl/Misa = Mature.... I don't buy it. For me, Sheryl and Minmey have far more in common: both are manipulative flirts who don't take relationships very seriously. Meanwhile, Ranka and Misa, despite their ambitions and inherent (very attractively female) sense of shame, are good women who are steady in their feelings, compassionate, and a bit scared to be in love, or at least not very good at it. In fact, I would go further - Misa was traumatized by events from her past; just like Ranka. Both of them had "disassosiative amnesia" - Misa wanted to forget about Riber and couldn't - until she found a new purpose in life (ending the war with the Zentrans), while Ranka is blocking out memories of her childhood (the specifics are still to be revealed).... Of course, there's no perfect parallel between the four girls - but I don't think you can just say Ranka is like Minmey and that's that. In fact - if anything - Ranka is like Minmey BEFORE she wins the Miss Macross contest and changes diametrically - aka; a young, cute, giggly girl who is fun to be around and who is very emotive. The key here, though, is that Ranka is NOT changed for the worse by becoming famous. In fact - UNLIKE Minmey, who forgets about Hikaru even BEFORE she becomes famous (right after being "found" by the rescue crew), Ranka REMEMBERS LOVE for Alto even after her success in Birdman and other events. She is far more conscious and put together than Minmey - not as airheaded and flighty. In this sense - she is intellectually far more mature; and in terms of emotional immaturity - it is of the sort that Misa "suffered" - aka fears left over from the past combined with a general lack of self-confidence when it comes to matters of the heart (for notice that Misa was a very self-confident officer, and Ranka has fast become a self-confident singer - but neither girl could bring themselves to tell Hikaru/Alto of their love (Misa only did so in the LAST EPISODE!). So... Ranka is therefore the more mature of the two; Sheryl has much to learn. VFTF1

It's all a matter of interpretation. I sense that while there is certainly a teaching in Macross Frontier about the benefits of living in harmony with nature, there is also a teaching about the dangers of using good intentions to pass tyranical laws. After all, Nana pledges to go to jail with Ranka "if they are caught" - and their "crime" is cuddling a cute animal. There were no environmental protection acts in Macross Zero - because humanity does not need "environmental protection acts" to live in harmony with nature. In fact, all such "acts" are merely symptoms of the problem - man moving away from nature and creating an artificial society. Of course, it's hard for society to be anything BUT artificial on Frontier - since the entire thing is man made. I therefore understand the utility of certain strict laws that safeguard the general health of the population - however, it would seem to me that RANKA IS HERSELF A WALKING VIOLATION OF THE LAW. She is, after all, an alien - so should Ranka be tossed into space? If anything, Macross Frontier mirrors reality - where we have numerous similar regulations and numerous similar paradoxes and misunderstandings and tragedies that arise from them. Also - please do note that Galaxy has a completely different system worked out; not at all like Frontier. I imagine that different colony ships have their own different energy and power systems and ideas. There is another lesson for us: diversity. There need not be "one" solution to the problem of the environment vs technology - there are multiple possibilities and it is in the interest of humanity as such to allow diverse solutions. NUNS does not mandate one system for every colony. Macross Zero is beautiful because it shows that humanity does not require artifice for happiness. Macross Zero is not an ode to the EPA. These are two very different things. VFTF1

Ooops That does make a world of difference But now that we're back on the subject of the greatest achievement in human history (Macross 7), I must report that I am tearing my hair out (thankfully there's lots of it!) because FIRST my old torrent just up and erased itself and now I've gotten 52% of the series downloaded and it...was all destroyed in a minor problem with my laptop caused by my girlfriend's cats pressing some buttons... WHEN will I FINALLY have Macross 7 back?! Can I actually get it subbed on DVD?? VFTF1