ewilen

Anyone have the M7 TIA book? Does it have the original designs?

Okay, what features would you want? Big--okay. Detailed--okay. Transformable? Detachable ARMDs? (Personally, I'd like to have an option to attach the Prometheus and Daedalus, even if they wouldn't be strictly correct with an otherwise DYRL design.) Working cannon? Lights? Open it and see the city inside?

AgentONE--understood. And acknowledge that Chris is a longtime contributor. My problem with this, as with so many political statements on MW, is that it is (a) incorrect, (b) potentially inflammatory, yet © responding to it incurs a risk of being drawn into a political debate.

This is why: Federal law does not prohibit such discrimination in private hiring. (A federal executive order prohibits discrimination in federal civilian hiring.) However, Federal law does not give employers the right to discriminate against gays. At least eleven states prohibit discrimination against gays in both public and private hiring. So factually, Chris B.'s statement is wrong. Whether it has any bearing on this discussion is left up the reader. I fail to see a connection.

Christopher B., your fact may be "presented as objective reality", but it is false. If you would like me to explain why, I would be happy to do so via PM. And simply because I call you on one violation of the rules, that doesn't obligate me to point out every time an infraction occurs. You are obligated to follow the rules, however, and trolling a thread with irrelevant gay-baiting, particularly with reference to nonfactual political "facts" is against the rules. Edit: On second thought, there's really no danger of a debate, so I am going to post the reason why ChristopherB is wrong in a moment. Just wanted to get this note in before any further damage is done.

I see that ChristopherB has edited his posts, yet they still manage to be irrelevant to the topic (how does federal employment law relate to Macrossworld TOU?) and factually incorrect.

There's a good chance it's in Ovid (writing about six centuries after Homer), or one of the minor poems of the "Homeric cycle", or alluded to in some other work like Sophocles' Ajax. All of Greek myth was passed down orally, so facts like "Achilles was killed by an arrow in the heel" were well known and didn't necessarily have to be spelled out in a written narrative. Even then, the vast majority of Greco-Roman literature has been lost, so we have to piece the myths together from that scraps that are left over. Edit: This article has a list of references at the end that could be useful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achilles#Memn...ath_of_Achilles (Interestingly, it states that a lost play by Aeschylus, called Achilles was found last year. But further web searches indicate that classical scholars are pretty skeptical about the news story/press release about the "discovery". Interestingly, there's a Cyprus connection--the discovered play was/is supposed to be performed there for the first time since antiquity.) I also want to note that since the fragments come from different times, they may represent the myth at different points in its evolution/interpretation. Just as the Achilles/Patroclus relationship only appears explicitly homosexual in literature from a later period than Homer, it may be that at Homer's time, the nature of Achilles' strength, vulnerability, and eventual death may not have been the same as what we get from (say) Ovid.

Hey, ChristopherB, what part of this don't you understand?

Flashback 2012 came out in 1987. It didn't show the marriage but it was strongly implied there. The marriage may have been mentioned earlier (certainly later) in official timelines or novels. Don't know when Sentinels was filmed.

Yeah, like I said, he doesn't die in the Iliad. I'm pretty sure, though, that there's a scene where his mother (a minor goddess) tells him that he's going to die, and in any case there's heavy foreshadowing. First of all, the funeral of Patroclus is kind of like him saying, "Boys, when I go, this is how I want it to be." Second, when he has a tete a tete with Priam, the two of them basically agree that life sucks, and the overall theme is mourning for the dead, with a heavy implication that both of them are going to be dead soon enough. Okay, I looked it up, and in Chapter 18, lines 325ff., Achilles predicts he's going to die. He knows this because he's had a conversation with his mom, Thetis, in lines 52-144.

There's a scan over at imacross4. You also might want to check this thread: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?...85&hl=imacross4 And/or just click on this link: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/uploads/po...-1080862886.jpg Note that the last is a modified version and some of text is inaccurate.

He designed most of the non-VF mecha and spaceships for Macross.

Hm. So I guess literature should come with a warning label as it's likely to induce schizophrenia. (I seem to recall Socrates saying somthing like that...) Anyway, if Haruhiko Mikimoto did have something to do with the character interactions, it might make sense that he'd want Minmay to stay single. I've read elsewhere on this board that she's based on a singer which he had a crush on. Is this another insight from that old anime magazine you mentioned in the thread about the Megaroad?

If you're just going to get one Valk, I'd recommend getting a 1/48. My collection is focused on 1/60 scale Macross toys, but I'm glad I have a 1/48. You can see a lot of pics at The Valkyrie Factory. You can also look at http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/toys/1...comparisons.htm Basically, the 1/48 is more posable and more stable in any pose. Not to mention better detail. I collect 1/60's because they offer a greater range of TV styles, they're cheaper, and they take up less space. Also, I'm not too crazy about the 1/48 VF-1J head--but that is a small nitpick. If you just want any 1/48, I think the Max 1A is often available for well under $100.

I had the same doubts, but the page referred to above ( http://yz-box.com/kategory/S36macross.htm ) definitely says "Max" in the text.

I'd like to see a fully TV-accurate Q-Rau from Yamato, but if all they do is repaint it (and hopefully fix the antenna and eye piece), I'll get it. Regarding the fact that there's no figure in this Max Q-Rau--maybe they'll make a good-quality pilot figure as an add-on, just as they're doing with Millia.

A1, I think you (or your girlfriend) is mistaken about Ajax. In the myth (the version I'm familiar with) he commits suicide because of events following the death of Achilles. Achilles dies in the 10th year of the war. Also, minor point, calling Patroclus Achilles' gay lover may not be entirely accurate. Their relationship in the Iliad isn't spelled out in that kind of detail and it may well be that the explicitly homosexual interpretation was added by later Greeks, centuries after the poem was written. Finally, about this character switch idea. I hate to belabor the point, but the Iliad isn't the complete and authoritative version of the Trojan War. The myth of the Trojan War preceded the poem and is far more extensive. It has been used as the backdrop for many different pieces of literature, including Sophocles' Ajax, Virgil's Aeneid (in parts), and Shakespeare's Troilus and Cressida. Achilles is the main character of the Iliad, but not of the overall myth. In making this film the filmmakers obviously needed to figure out whose story they wanted to tell. I haven't seen the film, so I don't know exactly what they did, but they certainly could have made an ensemble movie. The problem, I imagine, is figuring out how to how to do that while retaining the dramatic high points handed down by literature. If you want to focus on Achilles and tell his story "accurately", then you're creating a dramatic framework in which all the stuff that happens after his death becomes unnecessary. (The Iliad doesn't even get that far--Achilles' death is only foreshadowed.) It'd be like carrying Apocalypse Now on to the fall of Saigon. In theory, I suppose they could have made a trilogy, with different characters and different themes emphasized in each picture, but I doubt such a project would have been funded.

Thanks, A1. I forgot to mention that FB2012 also nicely shows that Hikaru and Misa were correct (I forget exactly who said it) at the end of the TV show, to say that Minmay would bounce back. She had a tough time, but she got over it.

Everyone's welcome to their opinion, but there are some clues in the TV show that we're not supposed to feel too sorry for Minmay. Such as the narrator asking rhetorically at one point, "What kind of girl is Lin Minmei?", and Roy giving Hikaru a little lecture about "girls like that". And of course there's the scene where she babbles giddily over the phone without picking up on the fact that Hikaru is under enormous emotional stress due the war and the loss of two of his closest friends. It's not to say that Minmay is a horrible person, but in a big way the point of her relationship with Hikaru is to provide an emotional foil for his development into a grown man. She may not mean to mess with his head and tempt him to give up his responsibilities (well, she does at one point); however, that's the effect she has on him. At the same time, I think that, in a way, the plot doesn't want her to definitively hook up with anyone. This enhances the fantasy image of her as an idol--it allows everyone in the universe (plus the guys in the audience) to picture themselves with her. I agree that FB2012 provides the best resolution--Hikaru's relationship with Minmay (to come on board the Megaroad) can almost be seen as a form of courtly love--the emotional fulfillment of romantic love, and an inspiration to noble deeds, yet without the physical element that would be both socially unacceptable and (obviously) destructive toward Hikaru & Misa's marriage. Who knows what happened on the Megaroad after its departure? Aside from Hikaru, it's hard to imagine anyone who "deserves" Minmay--especially the grown up Minmay of FB2012. But on a ship of that size, there might well be someone for her. Since it's a fantasy, though, with an indefinite ending, we never have to give up the image of Minmay as the idol who belongs to everyone.

For the nth time, it may be a bootleg, but it appears to be identical to the Takatoku 1/5700 "block system" Macross. Based on the pictures, I think it looks nice--nicer than the 1/6300--but not $60+ nice.

Oh yeah. Forgot it had O'Toole. Maybe I'll watch it on DVD. If you want to see him in a different swords and sandals epic, I highly recommend the TV miniseries Masada. (Or if you want to see him in a really crappy pornfest, there's Caligula...)

You get a pretty clear shot of the mass production version during the initial Meltrandi attack in which Roy dies and Hikaru/Misa escape from the Zentradi. There's a scene where a "cannon fodder" Q-Rau gets hit, the pilot crawls out of the cockpit, and dies. Later, during preparations for the final battle, and during the battle itself, we see Max's custom Q-Rau. The mass production model is light purple, while Max's is blue. However, the pictures which have been posted of the Yamato Max Q-Rau look somewhere between blue and purple. (Are we sure it's supposed to be Max's?) MAHQ.NET, by the way, has a picture of something called a "queadluun-nona". I don't know where they got that design from, but the color in the picture is the DYRL mass-production color.

Thanks for that summary. It's interesting that Mikimoto claimed co-authorship of the story, since the court judgments that I've read regarding the Tatsunoko-Big West/Studio Nue cases all have Mikimoto involved strictly as a character and setting designer. This article by Egan Loo may be of interest: http://www.ex.org/3.3/04-feature_macross1.html Note that the original story concept for Macross was "Battle City Megaroad/Megaload". I wonder if the SSM designation actually goes back to that original concept and was dropped when the story evolved into its more familiar form?

Great point Ewilen... the girl that plays Helen is hot, but not the stunning beauty you would launch a thousand ships for. I kept asking myself who would I choose as Helen, but the thought escaped me. You have it spot on my friend! Slate mentions that they called her office, but they couldn't get through her staff for some reason. She's done a little acting--played a character in a live-action Asterix movie--but I don't remember if she was any good. On the other hand, if they were truly adapting the Iliad, she wouldn't have to do much other than stand around and look pretty, which she's extremely good at. If I recall correctly, Paris survived the Iliad, the poem doesn't mention Achilles' vulnerability (and I don't think it overtly describes him as being invulnerable anywhere on his body), and the "come back victorious or on your shield" quote is something that Spartan mothers told their sons, not from the Iliad. Paris dying and the Achilles heel are part of Greek myth, just not part of the Iliad. But I don't know where they get Menelaus dying. He definitely made it back home; in fact Telemachus (Odysseus's son) visits him--and Helen--many years later at the beginning of the Odyssey. Anyway, it sounds like people are better off renting Ben Hur, Spartacus, or even Clash of the Titans...

Yes, the Aeneid covers the very end of the Trojan War (though it's told as a flashback of the sack of Troy), but there's a great deal of the war that isn't in the Iliad, the Odyssey, or the Aeneid. According to myth, the war lasted 10 years.