Seto Kaiba

One day, I'd really love for everyone to be able to spell "Seto" correctly. Yes, Macross II is a sequel to DYRL, and it's fairly typical for a Japanese-made sequel in that it sticks fairly close to the original work. I don't hold that against it. They had a formula that worked well, and they stuck with it. Too many sci-fi franchises have been ruined by their creators trying to fix what isn't broken (Star Trek, Star Wars, etc), which almost invariably leads to a product that's almost offensively unlike the original. (This is actually my only complaint with Macross Plus, I crucify Macross 7 for other reasons) Macross II had some absolutely stunning mechanical designs, many of which did not get the attention they deserved, and the VF-XX Zentradi Valkyrie is one of them. Yeah, unfortunately Chronicle's writers seem to be drawing exclusively from This is Animation Special #5 and Entertainment Bible 51, so a lot of the information Kenichi Yatagai and co. gave out about the series is being inadvertently excluded because it was published in B-Club Magazine. So don't expect to see anything about the Million Star incident, the Macross-class emigration ships of the 2050s, or the altered date of the Megaroad-01's liftoff in Chronicle. What little information is available is being roundly ignored by Chronicle's writers, just like it was ignored by the idiots at Palladium, who we can thank for the mistaken belief that Macross II takes place in 2089. On that irksome note, Chronicle offered the first hint of a date for Macross II, mentioning the year 2091 in the "People of the Mardook" article. It's in the estimated range based on the B-Club timeline, (2091-2092) but the OSTs give the year as 2092 (100 years after the OVA's debut, 10 years after the last Zentradi invasion, ~82 years after Space War 1). With most of Macross II's mecha designers going on to work on Gundam later, it seems like 2091 might be an in-joke, because it shakes out to the year 0079 under that "New Era" calendar.

dara made, Information about the VF-XX is pretty scarce, and so is its art. The VF-XX Zentradi Valkyrie appears for only a few seconds in either episode 5 or 6 of Macross II: Lovers Again, and only two pieces of lineart seem to exist for the mecha... the battroid and fighter modes you posted. The only information available about it apart from that is that it's a technology demonstrator-turned-Zentradi variable fighter that was developed after the December 2054 capture of a factory satellite, introduced "in the 2060s", and was the predecessor to the VF-2 series. Entertainment Bible 51 has color and black & white art for it, B-Club Magazine #79 has color art for it, and This is Animation Special #5: Macross II has black & white art for it. It also appears in Palladium's Macross II: Sourcebook One, though none of the information Palladium has for it is canon. One noteworthy mention is that there is a coloring error in either B-Club Magazine #79 or Entertainment Bible 51, wherein the finlike protrusions in front of the mecha's shoulders and above the cockpit in battroid mode are colored differently. In B-Club they're white, and in Entertainment Bible 51 they're the same shade of green as the other green accents around the "collar" and on the shoulders. The art you posted is somebody's poorly done photoshopping of the B-Club colors, turning the green to blue.

Date for Macross II is wrong in those timelines too... B-Club #79's timeline and the OST books establish that the OVA is set in 2092.

I rather prefer fighter mode, simply for aesthetic reasons. There're some interesting fighter designs, though I loathe what Kawamori did to the VF-19 in Macross 7, and I don't much care for the VF-0, SV-51, VF-25, and VF-27.

No, it's not yours. It's anime52k8's VF-4 w/ VF-25-style feet. No need to get your knickers in a twist. I just ordered my copy of the Fan Book today... so I oughta be getting it around two days hence.

Well, if Sketchley won't point you in the right direction, I will. I've sent you a link to a site in english that sells all of the books you're looking for. Incidentally, I saw your VF-4 redux on 4chan, and was quite impressed. Nice work. EDIT: Had to reword that, didn't send him scans, just pointed him to a site that'll sell him the book.

On the subject of WHEN precisely Macross II takes place... we have one answer that fits the available evidence: We have the timeline published in B-Club magazine that offers the year 2082 as the last Zentradi invasion. Sylvie Gena explicitly states that it has been ten years since the last Zentradi invasion, Hibiki confirms the last Zentradi attack was ten years ago when he tries to talk the producer into letting him cover the battle at MA-224, and Mash states that the SDF-1 brought culture to the Zentradi approximately eighty years previously. This agrees with other sources, namely the soundtrack booklets, which explicitly attribute the war with the Mardook to 2092. Furthermore, 2092 is exactly 100 years from the date when the OVA was released, and honestly... that doesn't look coincidental. I think it's a pretty safe bet that Macross Ace is dead wrong on this issue, as it contradicts pretty much everything else that's out there as far as official source materials go. Reintroducing Macross II to the main timeline would entail tossing out quite literally all the previously established continuity for the alternate universe, and thinking up an excuse for the Zentradi suddenly becoming a tangible threat to humanity again... they've been borderline comic relief in the main timeline since 2045.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it an urban legend, it's really more of an educated guess on the parts of many viewers. Strictly speaking, the Macross II alternate universe's official timeline (as published in B-Club) makes no mention of the formation of a New United Nations Government or New U.N. Spacy. Of course, that cannot be taken as an outright denial of the existence of either organization, since the timeline glosses over all but the most important details between the end of Space War 1 in 2010 and the attack of the Neld Fleet in 2036, and focuses mainly on the development of the variable fighters. I'll get in to what it DOES mention in just a sec. Realistically, we could go either way. Since DYRL was a condensed version of the TV series with only some of the events changed, it seems reasonable for there to have been a New United Nations Government established in the wake of Space War 1. Of course, since NUNS does show up, particularly in the government's propaganda broadcasts, it would make sense for it to be the name of their media bureau as well. Now, to business... Since the timeline B-Club published isn't a general historical overview, but rather a history of variable fighters in the Macross II alternate universe, it doesn't really offer a lot of help covering historical milestones, though it does make mention of the major events and stories. It attributes the lack of new variable fighter designs between 2014 and 2060 to the drain on resources imposed by the Earth reclamation project, rebuilding the fleet, and the ongoing efforts to colonize other planets. As a result, the VF-1 and VF-4 remain in service far longer than in the main timeline, receiving periodic technology upgrades including the VF-1R's SP-II super parts, and the eventual introduction of funnels to the VF-4S's super parts in 2037. As far as historical milestones, it mentions the end of Space War 1 in 2010, the launch of the SDF-2 Megaroad-01 in 2014 (yes, 2014!), a few Zentradi raids between 2010 and 2018, the introduction of the VF-1R in the 2020s, the death of Dr. H. Takachihoff (the father of the VF-1 and VF-1R) in 2030, the return of Quamzin with the Neld Fleet in 2036, the Burado fleet in 2037, the start of an eight month war with the Zentradi on May 5, 2054 which culminated in the loss of the fmr. Adoclas fleet and the capture of another factory satellite, the development of the VF-XX in the 2060s, the introduction of the VF-2 in 2072, the VF-2SS in 2081, a Zentradi invasion in 2082 (the invasion Sylvie Gena refers to in the OVA), the introduction of the VF-2JA in 2086, and the Mardook invasion in 2092. Now if you want a CONCRETE, iron-clad case of Kawamori stealing plot elements from the alternate universe... let's start with the use of Macross-class super dimension fortresses in colonization missions. The alternate universe timeline published in 1992 mentions that the 2054 war was kicked off by a Zentradi attack on the Million Star(s), a Macross-class colonization ship, only 1.8 light years from Earth on May 5, 2054. Now we've got Chronicle claiming that each and every Megaroad mission had one (or more) escorting it some 16 years after the fact.

I think there may be an error on the Meltrandi Gunboat page in your DYRL section. Exactly what source did you use for the length of Milia 639's gunship? I was answering a friend's question about Meltrandi ship retcons, and made mention of Chlore's gunboat. As I didn't have my copy of TIA-11 on me, I consulted your site's DYRL section and the size you had for it just didn't seem right. Acting on a hunch, I pulled up my scans of TIA-11 page 92 (the DYRL ship size comparison) and using Photoshop, compared the ship against the SDF-1 in storm attacker mode. The size comparison has all the ships drawn to the same scale, with the Meltrandi gunship being 203px long, and the SDF-1 being 190px long. Working from the pre- and post-refit SDF-1 dimensions, we can establish the scale at 1px = 6.368m by the pre-refit dimensions, and 1px = 6.316m by the post-refit dimensions. With that, we can establish the size of the Meltrandi gunship as being between 1282m and 1293m (depending on whether you're using the post-refit or pre-refit size of the SDF-1), not the 1,800m given in your article. If you measure from the back of the engines instead of the fins on the ship's ventral hull (which extend past the engines) the ship's size is about 1270m. Is there a source I missed that offers a concrete statement of 1,800m as the size?

Unfortunately, I don't have the laserdisc release of Macross II: Lovers Again, so I don't have access to those liner notes. I have the original US Renditions subtitled OVA release on VHS, the US Renditions subtitled movie release on VHS, the Manga Entertainment re-release of the movie on VHS, and the Manga Entertainment DVD release. Laserdisc went bust as a format when I was still in my mid-teens, and the only laserdisc movie I've ever watched was Star Wars ep4. I'd imagine the liner notes booklet is on the large side, but if you can scan it, I can add it to the queue of things waiting to be translated. However, I'd be inclined to say that they're probably just episode summaries.

Actually, it's the Balzae fleet, it's one of those weird romanizations. Captain Balzae's name was changed to Bataze in the english dub to make it easier to pronounce. His fleet was referred to in the series dialogue as the 12th Group, though he doesn't appear to be Nexx's commanding officer. Unfortunately, most of what was in the Macross Cannon article was old news. A brief dialogue exchange between Captain Balzae and one of his bridge officers revealed that the New U.N. Spacy had at least six Macross Cannons prior to the final fleet engagement of the war. The dialogue is worded such that it implies there may have been more than six ships of that class though. The only new information was the size being approximately 6000 meters.

No, the text says nothing about the pilot, except that the mecha has a crew of one Zentradi soldier. From the animation, it looks like the pilot is either scrunched up like a Regult pilot, or is sort of squatting, like a Queadluun-Rea pilot. The animation used for the pilot is pretty much identical to all the other Mardook-controlled Zentradi pilots, so I don't think he's a miclone. The cockpit is in the mecha's rather bulbous torso, which I'm guessing is probably about the same size as the "head" of the Esbeliben Regult, if not slightly larger. The unnamed Mardook VF does look to be somewhat closer to the VF-2SS in size. The Metal Siren's actually a full head shorter than the VF-2SS and VF-2JA in battroid mode in the size comparison, making it probably one of the smallest VFs in all of Macross. Zinjo is correct. The Auto-Attack Bits following the VF-2SS around in episode one are alternately referred to as Auto-Attack(er) Bits and Squires in the source material. Though I would say Auto-Attack Bit is the type of mecha, and "Squire" is probably the unit's name. I'm afraid I won't be of much help on that note either, as only one piece of lineart seems to exist for the AAB/Squire unit, a rather simple sketch of the mecha from three different angles, totally unlabeled. That same sketch was reprinted, totally unaltered, in the Palladium RPG, for those who don't have access to EB51 and TIAS5. While it looks suspiciously similar to a Fulbtzs-Berrentz mothership, there's no way it can be. It's several orders of magnitude smaller than Boddole Zer's Fulbtzs-Berrentz mothership from the TV series, and appears to only be about a dozen kilometers wide and maybe thirty kilometers tall. It seems to have just been inserted as a homage to the original series. The dialogue refers to it as "Macross Cannon Base", and its exterior is dotted with docking umbilicals for Macross Cannons (several are seen to be docked there).

Tapping that font of knowledge one more time... please bear with me, as I'm dead on my feet right now, and having a pretty crappy day... Insofar as the Mardook variable fighter goes... it has no real name. About all the canon information we have on it has it as a two-mode variable fighter/power armor with a full-size Zentradi pilot, and some rather vague details about its armament. I wouldn't call it a foo fighter though... it shows up in two of the six episodes, and Nexx kills one personally with his Metal Siren's plasma spear. Certain english sources have referred to it alternately as the Mardook Megafighter and Mardook Annihilator, but neither name is official. As far as the size of the Macross Cannons goes... that's been a matter open to speculation for a while now. Palladium Books claimed it was 488 meters long in their RPG. EB51 and TIAS5 offer no real clues to the ship's size, other than that it's enormous, at least as long as the Nupetiet Vergnitzs-class fleet command battleship, and five or more times as wide. Several people have done perspective-based calculations using the large numbers of Zentradi picket ships in the foreground and background as reference points, and pretty consistently come up with numbers in excess of 5000 meters for the ship's length in cruiser mode. When last I reviewed the numbers, the mean result for the size of the Macross Cannons was 5300-5500 meters (with 5360 meters being a frequently recurring value). However, it would not surprise me in the least if the Macross Cannon did turn out to be even larger, and tip the scales around 6000 meters. Of course, if such is the case and they really are 6000m long, that means that the orbital space station they dock at (which looks suspiciously similar to Boddole Zer's mothership from the TV series) is much larger than previously predicted... making it maybe 12-15km across the short axis, and 30km or more across the long axis.

Seconded. It'd never fit with what's been established in the main timeline anyway. In the early drafts, Macross II was envisioned as being set 300 years after DYRL, which would've put it in about 2310. It was reduced to ~80 years (82 years to be precise), putting the OVA in 2092.

Sorry it took me so long to get back here... it's been a hellish weekend. I did stumble across something very interesting a short while ago. Having acquired print copies of This is Animation Special #5, Entertainment Bible 51, and the two B-Club Magazine articles on Macross II: Lovers Again, I recently turned my attention to acquiring print copies of the American printed media on that particular feature. Just this afternoon I received the copies of Protoculture Addicts #19, the featured titles for which were Macross II: Lovers Again and Wings of Honneamise. The featured article on Macross II in PA #19 is certainly interesting. It was written by one Martin Ouellette, who was also a contributing writer for Palladium's Macross II deck plans books. Mr. Ouellette gave a fairly positive review of the OVA, though he did express some disappointment with the mechanical designs (particularly the nature of the VF-2SS and VF-2JA as revamped VF-1S and VF-1J designs). Typical of its era, the article suffers from some pretty bad romanizations... DYRL's title is mistranslated as Macross: Love, Do You Remember?, "Mardook" somehow got romanized as "Marduke", he gets Nexx's name down as "Nexxus", and he gets the ranks wrong (sort of, he's got the equivalencies right, but he's using Navy not Air Force). Amusingly, he DOES rise above expectations by getting Mash's gender right (so many people think he's a woman, sort of like Alto). One very interesting and very important piece of information was included, though it's hidden in plain sight... tucked between two columns of black and white screen captures, and just above a large picture of the VF-2SS's head on page 16... a simple declaration that the Mardook are the descendants of the Protoculture. In that little blurb about the Mardook, he says that the Mardook are the remnants of the Protoculture, the creators of the Zentradi and Meltrandi, and that they've been wandering the galaxy with a fleet of over 100,000 ships. He also reiterates the statements about the Zentradi being manipulated by songs and brainwashing, and the Mardook storing them in stasis chambers until they're needed. Before anyone leaps up to yell at me about Protoculture Addicts not being an authoritative publication, I'm already well aware of that fact. I just find it deeply amusing how well it tallies with the conclusions I reached based on my partially-complete translation of Entertainment Bible 51. I also did a little looking, and it looks like the guy who runs Merzo.net reached the same conclusion, though I don't know how much of the source material he had access to. Incidentally, I've resumed work on my translation of Entertainment Bible 51. It's going to take me a little while to get it done (it's 167 pages long), but I'm going to make my finished translation available for whoever wants it on MacrossShare and my own website. Mr. March does have first dibs on the PDF version though.

I chose Macross II. 's not to say DYRL and the original series weren't great, but I don't fancy how the remainder of the main timeline turned out... we've gone from "culture shock" to "magic music" and I don't like it.

Okay then, that promises to be interesting Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but obviously more than a few people think there is something to this. The creators of a show are not always going to come right out and say "this is how it is, let there be no debate". Sometimes, writers and directors deliberately leave things ambiguous to try and get you thinking, or will reveal the truth through a bunch of little clues that point to a single conclusion. It's not always cut and dry, if it was, there'd be no such thing as a plot twist. Is it definite that the Mardook are the Protoculture? Of course not. What I presented was a theory based on the available information in official publications, and informed speculation based on other titles in this branch timeline. Snide remarks aside, all you've offered to this discussion has been one claim that you can't back up... that the Mardook enslaved the Zentradi using the Emulators. If you're more interesting in having simple answers than accurate ones, I'll phone up Kevin Siembieda and ask him if Palladium's got any openings for writers. Yes, I do love Macross II. No, I don't think that it belongs in the main timeline. I'm not delving into fan fiction, this is what's called informed speculation. It's something that people do in debates and intelligent discourse. If you have a problem with that, you're welcome to ignore it and do your own thing instead, but don't try to ruin it for everyone else. That'd just be immature. I would ask the same of you. Had you actually read my posts, you would know that I have taken great care to remind people that what I am presenting is a theory. I have not attempted to pass my theories about the Mardook off as fact in this thread. Until such time as Ken'ichi Yatagai or someone of similar standing in the Macross II creative process comes right out and says yea or nay on it, the matter remains open and there is no harm in speculation. I would appreciate it if you stopped trying to pass judgement on what is and isn't worth discussing. I don't think so... since the Protodevlin, Supervision Army, and Protoculture biomecha don't exist in the Macross II branch timeline. Obviously, some of the generalities are the same, but there are also major differences, like the presence of a cityship on Earth's surface circa 18,000 BCE, or the war being between men and women who reproduce asexually, rather than the Protoculture and Supervision Army. To the best of my knowledge, the fate of the Protoculture who fled Earth 20,000 years before Space War 1 is officially unknown. Yeah, the mystery behind the Mardook's origins is something I wish they'd explored a little more thoroughly in the course of the OVA. Unfortunately, you can only do so much in six episodes. Maybe the matter will be settled once and for all in a future issue of Macross Chronicle. They've already given a canon designation to the Metal Siren... seems to me like they're not ignoring Macross II as much as they have in the past. I don't think it would be right for anyone to subscribe to that notion with any degree of certainty without explicit proof, which is why contrary to Duke Togo's belief, I've maintained it's a theory... rather than a fact. I'd love to one day have the matter settled for good one way or the other... then again I'd also love to see an OVA verison of Macross: Eternal Love Song.

Because that theory requires a large number of assumptions in order to work out. First, that by some miracle of convergant evolution the Mardook evolved looking identical to humanity (the Star Trek principle). Second, that thousands or tens of thousands of years ago, back when humanity was still sorting out the concept of agriculture, the Mardook had technology so advanced they were able to defeat the Zentradi (culture alone doesn't do the job). Three, that the Mardook were able to find ways to control and enslave the Zentradi, beings five times their size (humanity had enough trouble just trying to get them to tone down the violence). Four, that over a few millennia, Mardook science advanced so much that they were able to outdo the Protoculture technologically. Five, that for some reason, they decided to have a go at genocide on a galactic scale. From a common sense perspective, are they still going to call themselves the Protoculture after their civilization collapsed half a million years ago, and after an unspecified amount of time living under the dictatorial rule of Emperor Ingues? For example, are we still going to call this continent America in half a million years? We called Iran Persia until about seventy years ago. It is a textbook dictator move to try and establish a new cultural identity for the people in that dictator's thrall... maybe that's what Ingues did. The answer to your first question goes back to DYRL. The Protoculture abandoned their cityship when the Zentradi came calling, and never returned. Presumably they were either killed, or died out before being able to return. It could be that the Mardook are the descendants of the Protoculture who fled Earth in about 18,000 BCE (20,000yrs before DYRL) made a blind fold jump, got lost, and Earth was eventually forgotten. Actually, this is an interesting plot point in the main timeline too, where the Protoculture ship that genetically modified humanity was destroyed by forces opposed to the Stellar Republic before it could return to base. The answer to your second is that it would take a signal a long time to reach across the entire galaxy. Nobody knows where the Mardook were in 2009, possibly on the other side of the galactic disc. For that matter, after 20,000 years, would they even recognize the ship as one of their own? Maybe they did pick up the signal, and didn't know how to interpret it. I would be inclined to agree, though there are so very many tantalizing clues that point to the Protoculture, or more accurately, the descendants of the Protoculture who escaped the war between the Zentradi and Meltrandi. I would question which definintion of the word "product" you're using. The interpretation that the series and the publications suggest to me is that the Mardook are descended from the surviving Protoculture, rather than a sub-Protoculture species (like humanity) which somehow seized control of a combined force of Zentradi and Meltrandi.

What I presented was a theory that elegantly answers most of the questions about the origins of the Mardook, and is supported by a large body of evidence from official publications like Entertainment Bible 51, This is Animation Special #5, and the various B-Club Magazine articles. What you presented was an unfounded claim completely bereft of supporting evidence, a claim which falls apart when examined using common sense. No, they most certainly didn't. However, even if they had, I'd still be asking you to back up your claim with evidence.

I don't know about that, quite a few people think my facts add up just fine. It certainly makes quite a bit more sense for the Mardook to be the Protoculture than it does for them to be some never-before seen or mentioned alien race of miclone stature, virtually indistinguishable from humanity and the Zentradi, which captured billions of Zentradi, somehow develops technology so superior to that of the Protoculture that they're able to improve on almost all of the Zentradi equipment and ships, brainwashes those billions of Zentradi soldiers, develops at least two entirely new classes of starship with technology superior to that of Zentradi ships, and then builds their own new type of mobile fortress, and then after that bout of scientific progress, decides to go on a millennia-long bender and exterminate all other sentient life in the galaxy! The theory that the Mardook are a new alien race that captured and enslaved the Zentradi doesn't hold up under even a common sense analysis, and there's nothing in any official publication to support it either. There is however a large body of evidence that points to the Mardook being the Protoculture. To be brutally frank, the facts in this case are such that there really isn't any other viable explaination for the Mardook other than their being descendants of the Protoculture. EDIT: Edited for clarity and to correct some poor grammar.

Not in so many words. All of the official publications, including Ken'ichi Yatagai's interview, refer to the Mardook as an ancient alien race which regards its own culture as deeply sacred. Yatagai goes one step further and elaborates on the motivations of the Mardook... that they view their own culture as sacred, and anything else is blasphemous and deserves eradication. He also draws special attention to the fact that the Mardook use both Zentradi and Meltrandi for proxy warfare, and that there were both male and female Mardook serving aboard each ship. What's REALLY noteworthy is that Yatagai never once refers to the Zentradi and Meltrandi soldiers in the Mardook fleet as slaves. What he actually says is "There are Zentradi [and Meltrandi] among the Mardook, and they are used as soldiers". That might not seem like a huge distinction, but it's very important. He never says the Mardook captured and enslaved the Zentradi and Meltrandi that they use in battle. Both in his interview and EB51 they shed a little light on how the Mardook are controlling the Zentradi. They're brainwashed to obey orders from Mardook without question, their battle instincts and emotional states are manipulated by songs from the Emulators, and they're stored in statis when they're not being used. Let's add up the facts here... we have a miclone alien race made up of both men and women, with an immensely ancient and sacred culture, technology even more advanced than the Zentradi and Meltrandi, and legions of Meltrandi and Zentradi soldiers who not enslaved, but rather are brainwashed into absolute obedience and controlled with songs. There's no Supervision Army in this timeline, and no mention made of other alien races. Not to mention the description of the Mardook lines up well with the DYRL account of mixed-gender ships fleeing the collapse of the Protoculture's civilization. While Yatagai never explicitly states that the Mardook are the Protoculture, all his statements point to that conclusion. So long as I'm on a roll here, let's clear up another misconception... the lack of colony ships in Macross II. In the official timeline published in B-Club Magazine, and in Entertainment Bible 51, mention is made of Earth launching colony ships! In fact, both books make it plain that Flashback 2012 really does have a place in the timeline too... except its events actually take place in 2014. That's multiple confirmations that the Megaroad-class colony ships, and particularly Megaroad-01 exist in the Macross II timeline. The timeline also makes mention of another colony ship... the Million Star, which is identified as a "Macross-class colonization vessel". The exact date of the Million Star's launch isn't given, though it was most likely launched in 2054, as it's attacked by a massive Zentradi fleet while only 1.8 light years from Earth, leading to the 2054 Zentradi invasion. There are AT LEAST two distinct classes of colonization ship in the Macross II timeline, though no mention is made of any colony ships landing and establishing colonies.

The theory that the Mardook are the Protoculture and created the Zentradi was based on remarks made by Ken'ichi Yatagai in a B-Club Magazine interview, and stuff out of Entertainment Bible 51 and the manga adaptation. While it's not 100% definite that the Mardook are survivors of the Protoculture (as no publication baldfacedly says it), the evidence all points that way, like the many statements in official publications that talk about the Mardook's views on culture, that they have superior technology to the Zentradi and New UN Spacy, and how they control their brainwashed Zentran and Meltran soldiers. Since Macross II: Lovers Again is a sequel to Macross: Do You Remember Love? and accepts DYRL as being the true version of Space War 1 (explicitly stated in B-Club Magazine), there's no Supervision Army, as the war was between the Zentradi and Meltrandi. Having the Mardook be creations of the Protoculture would contradict what was said about the creation of the Zentradi and Meltrandi in DYRL, about the creation of giant warriors to fight the war between men and women. It also seems absurd to assume that an alien race managed to successfully conquer and enslave an entire main fleet on its own, and then went to the trouble of producing a mobile fortress with a Mardook commander. The Mardook being the Protoculture really is about the only feasible explaination that answers all those concerns. As far as my sources go, rest assured I've got hardcopies of all the official ones (both B-Club Magazine articles on the OVA, TiAS #5: Macross II, Entertainment Bible 51) and I'm working my way through the unofficial ones as well just for good measure, I've recently obtained the MechaPress and Protoculture Addicts issues featuring Macross II. Also, thanks to several generous folks who won't take no for an answer, I've got like four copies of each RPG book, and several as-of-yet unassembled VF-2SS kits. Aside from his dislike for the storyline, I agree with Mr. March. Macross II is much better off as a separate story in its own little branch timeline than part of the main timeline. Elements of the story just don't tally with the main timeline.

I don't have it with me at the moment (as I'm posting this from work) but I think that in that particular artbook the VF-4 is referred to only as "VF-4". I know that in Entertainment Bible 51 the VF-4 is also only referred to as "VF-4" in the Flashback 2012 section. No, it doesn't seem that they did. The FAST packs on the VF-4A/S/SP/ST Siren seems to have FAST packs derived from the NP-BP-01 FAST packs used on the VF-1 Valkyrie. Though I do find the VF-4 FAST packs in that sketch remind me more than a little bit of the VF-25F/S's Armor Pack (the version Ozma uses). Well, I haven't been able to locate any lineart of the VF-4S/SP/ST from Macross: Eternal Love Song so pretty much all we have to go on are sprite graphics from the game itself, plus stuff that's said in-game. What I'm putting down here is based entirely on my own observations and the observations of others on here and elsewhere who have played the game through in its entirety. The VF-4A/G Lightning III is an odd bird with an unconventional and somewhat topheavy battroid layout that lacks weapons on the head turret and doesn't seem to normally carry a gunpod. Also noteworthy is the fact that the VF-4A/G Lightning III's head is stored on the dorsal side of the fuselage like the VF-11 and subsequent fighters. The VF-4A/S/SP/ST Siren seems to take a somewhat more traditional design. The VF-4A Siren seems to be visibly indistinguishable from the VF-4A Lightning III in fighter mode (we never see a battroid mode for this version). Circa 2037, the VF-4S Siren was in service with the UN Spacy, and had a somewhat altered design. In fighter mode, the mecha's head is on the ventral side of the fuselage, with the sensor window facing forward just like on the VF-1. The VF-4S also has a much more traditional looking head, which looks much like the head of the VF-1SR Valkyrie from Macross 2036: the Neld Fleet Incident, including the smaller "eye" up above the main sensor window and the four lasers mounted in pairs on the sides of the head. The VF-4S's head lasers are (in fighter mode) positioned such that they can shoot forward on either side of the ventral fin (like the head lasers of the VF-2SS). The VF-4S has the same forearm guns and semi-recessed missiles as the VF-4A/G, but a much more traditional battroid shape. The VF-4S doesn't seem to normally carry a gunpod. When equipped with normal FAST packs it's referred to as the VF-4SP Siren, and the FAST packs seem to share a lot in common with the VF-1's, being mainly missile launchers and boosters. The VF-4ST Siren is the VF-4S with a somewhat different set of FAST packs that can deploy Funnels (ala Gundam). The VF-4SP and VF-4ST seem to routinely carry a beam rifle for a gunpod.

Interesting indeed. I had originally thought those were from the Flashback 2012 artbook. I'm going to do a little digging into that on my own, and if that really is the VF-4A/S/SP/ST Siren as opposed to the VF-4/G Lightning III, that'd make it the ONLY lineart for the VF-4 Siren from the Macross II prequel game Macross: Eternal Love Song that I'm aware of. All my site's art of the VF-4A/S/SP/ST Siren are some rough stuff we put together with help from Flaming Gauntlet based on screen captures from the game. The VF-4S, VF-4SP, and VF-4ST debuted in Macross: Eternal Love Song for the NEC PC engine back in 1992, as main character mecha for some of the pilots aboard the UNS Prometheus (a Daedalus II-class space carrier platform, a ship class which could in all fairness be called the successor to the ARMD).

Well, I had to do something, since I suspect I caused the confusion in the first place. I actually have two copies of the soundtrack in question, but I never really bothered to read the little booklet. I'm gonna go get it right now. *runs off for a minute* Well blow me down... there it is kiddies... an overt statement that Macross II: Lovers Again is set in 2092. It's right there in the story summary in Volume II of the Macross II OST. Bravo TheLoneWolf. Bravo. I never even thought to look there. (Without laboriously translating it word for word, I can tell you it's a "story so far" summary that focusses mainly on the events of episodes 4-6 of the OVA, and explicitly mentions that the year is 2092 AD)