Seto Kaiba

And let us make no mistake, the creators of Macross are fully aware of just how impractical things like VFs would be on real-world battlefields. Remember, they've always had VFs and destroids down as extremely expensive hardware, and have toyed with the idea of replacing them with more cost-effective, non-transformable unmanned fighters on at least two separate occasions... in Macross Plus and in the backstory of Macross Frontier. On more than one occasion, the initial cost and upkeep costs for a particular VF were cited as reasons for its development, adoption or rejection (ex. VF-5, VF-6, VF-7, VF-9, VF-14, VF-171, VF-25), and the same goes for the AIF-7S Ghost, which became the primary air force of many emigration fleets because they cost 1/3 of what the VF-171 does, and that thing's considered extremely cost-effective for a VF. So, let it never be said that Macross's creators are completely blind to the fact that something like a VF would be an implementation nightmare, or that the increased cost would make non-transformable fighters much cheaper and far more appealing by comparison once they were on roughly the same technological level... they just keep coming up with various reasons to keep the VFs as central figures in the story because it's much more exciting than watching some mook in a control center ordering UCAVs about.

Okay, you have a point there... multiple variants of the AC-130 did mount howitzers... but it's not exactly a nimble plane, and certainly not one that will win a turning contest with a fighter. Really, there's no practical application for the magic, fairy-dust farting wonders that are Variable Fighters in a real-world battlefield. There are just too many implementation issues.

You'd have to ask Nenad or one of the other UEG guys for the exact reason Harmony Gold sent them a Cease and Desist notice... but they've adopted a policy of silence when it comes to that particular issue. I know, it'd be hilarious if it wasn't for the fact that some Robotech fans probably believe that it's true. Quite a few of them, including Maverick_LSC, Doug Bendo, and WDKaiserV1 (the guy who had the "Death to Macross Purists" signature) readily reiterate the theory that I'm lying about the Macross licensing issue to cause "pain and suffering", and that I'm the sinister lord of a cabal of Macross purists who've infiltrated the Robotech fanbase and are working to destroy it from within. I'm like Cobra Commander to these people, except I'm actually competent and I almost never lose...

And y'know what... after all this time it's still bloody ridiculous... funny too.. I wonder who they're gonna go after next... HP's Atlantech? Robelwell202's "Destroid's Last Dance" fanfic? It seems like anyone who's running a Robotech project these days is now open to attack. I guess they're still targeting the UEG crowd because they actually managed to come close to putting something of marketable quality out there. Why can't they go after someone who deserves it, like Maverick, MEMO, or Doug Bendo? Oh, I very much doubt that RobotechX is in any danger of being shut down by Harmony Gold. After all, it's MEMO's baby, and he's one of the very worst ass-kissing Tommy Yune fanboys and goose-stepping pro-Harmony Gold fascists. You've got nothing to fear... your site's an unofficial police box for the Harmony Gold division of ThinkPol. Speaking of... strange rumors have recently started reaching my ears concerning Harmony Gold's legal counsel and the cease and desist notice they sent concerning UEG's Robotech Genesis project. If what people are telling me is true (I'm still trying to verify it for myself, so it may not be), MEMO1DOMINION and several others have been telling people that I was the prime mover responsible for Harmony Gold's sudden urge to shut down the Genesis project. In the account that reached my ears eyes, they've been telling people that, for reasons that could best be described as "cartoonish villainy", I used my connections to Harmony Gold's legal counsel and/or senior management to get them to shut UEG's Genesis project down. Now, this is so patently absurd that I'm hoping to high heaven that it's not true. If it is, then that just says something horrible about the whole Robotech fanbase and the deepening state of denial it's in. They can't debate with us like civilized folks, so they have to resort to demonizing us by making us out to be saturday morning cartoon show villains who just want to make the heroes suffer for no reason. The part I really don't get is that after spending all this time and effort trying to discredit my statements about the Macross licensing situation, they've supposedly done a 180 and are now telling people I have secret connections to HG's legal staff that I use to crush those who oppose me. If I really had THAT much clout, or any connections to Harmony Gold's senior management and legal counsel, I probably would've convinced them to hire someone competent to run the franchise by now, or just done away with the franchise altogether and gotten us some stateside Macross licensing.

Indeed... the hosting package for Macross2.net was a good fit for my needs around six years ago when I was still almost totally inexperienced as a web designer and was only looking to run a basic website and forum on which I could host the Macross II RPG my friends and I were involved in. Now that my web design skills aren't so limited and the focus of the whole thing has long since changed to assembling the most complete reference for the parallel world continuity that Macross II inhabits, the hosting service's restrictive and hopelessly antiquated that it's pretty much useless for all but the most low tech of applications. At present, the server's configuration is so outdated that in another six months or so it won't even be able to run phpBB or Joomla... hence the need to move. Fortunately, M3 is low-tech enough to take full advantage of the package's few redeeming features without being unduly hindered by the missing functionality, and thus it seems to suit Mr March's needs well enough for the present. I'll take care of the redirect thing at the root index later this evening. (In the interest of fairness, Yahoo's customer service did promise to review my complaints and update their software accordingly... but we're approximately 18 months on from my initial request and nothing has really changed) Somehow, this fails to surprise me...

Well, as the one who actually does all the maintenance on M3 is Mr March, I'll have to leave that one to him. It might just be that it's something planned for a future update, or something he just forgot in the tidal wave of minor color corrections and the new articles and all that jazz. Rather than beat around the bush, I'll just come right out and say it... my attention has been directed elsewhere. Between real-world drama I won't waste your time with, a change in the scope of the project that the site was intended for, and the most erect of dick moves by the hosting service provider, I never quite got around to finishing construction of the site as I had intended. Since I was already lending my Macross II knowledge to Mr March when the owner of the previous M3 location forgot to renew his hosting package and the site went 404, I figured since I had an underutilized and thoroughly undercapable server whose chief redeeming features were an absurd amount of storage space and an even more absurd amount of bandwidth, it'd be no imposition at all to let him use as much as he needed so that his site wouldn't disappear. Basically, the site's being used as little more than an extremely low-spec mirror for M3 while I focus on unburying myself from a tidal wave of crap and will eventually be moving my project (and probably M3 as well) to a new hosting service and URL that isn't run by a bunch of pathologically dishonest, dyslexic chimpanzees. I just haven't had the time to remove the last of the prototype content for the old site and put up a redirect. EDIT: I just realized my first sentence had halves of the same sentence phrased two different ways giving completely the wrong impression... it's fixed now.

Well, the existence of the MHD system in the FF-2001 thermonuclear reaction turbine engine is already part of the VF-1's compendium article. Since the Compendium requires that everything be backed up by a print source of some kind, there really isn't any way for us to cover it in the other articles. The VF-1's simply the only article where the sources went into such excruciating detail. The whole atmospheric flight mode thing can be added since it comes from Great Mechanics DX (courtesy of Sketchley), but the space flight bit that I posted is informed speculation based on the information provided, which means it's technically inadmissible. In practice, it's almost certainly the way VFs actually do get around in space (waste not, want not, you have a known quantity in the ion thruster, and a ready source of plasma, why add extra weight with a whole second set of propellant tanks), but since it isn't explicitly given in a reliable canon publication (VF-1 Master File is far out in left field because it borrows a lot from an old, long-discredited tech manual doujin that was printed around the same time DYRL came out) there's no way to include a source that explicitly says "this is how it works".

Let's be frank... it used to mean something to the fans. Examining the way in which Harmony Gold managed the franchise over the years, you have to wonder if it ever meant anything more than a quick buck to Carl Macek and Frank Agrama. And y'know what... I got threatened with a ban on Robotech.com not once but twice for saying exactly that... once for just saying it flat-out, and once for jokingly calling the movie Robotech III: the Sentinels II (Detroit 0), and several other names including "Tommy Yune's Day Off" and "Robotech III: the Search for More Money". For both, Maverick accused me of posting personal attacks against Harmony Gold staffers and threatened to ban me...

Okay, this is actually a question that seems to have an answer... one which has been around since the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross TV series. Among the design features mentioned as having been incorporated into the FF-2001 thermonuclear reaction turbine engines used on the VF-1 is a system identified solely as "MHD", situated at the back of the engine near the exhausts. "MHD" is the accepted shorthand form of "magnetohydrodynamic(s)", which in all likelihood is identifying that part as a plasma ion thruster. In that case, the means by which variable fighters get around during space flight is remarkably similar to Star Trek's impulse engines... just without the mass-lowering subspace field. Plasma from the thermonuclear reaction engines would be vented through the engine and accelerated using a high efficiency ion thruster with thrust-vectoring nozzles to provide propulsion and basic maneuverability in space. This would also account for the higher rate of fuel consumption in the engine, to provide enough plasma to serve as propellant, and also explain why VFs so frequently employ large boosters and additional propellant tanks for extended space operations. (As a side note, this explanation also agrees in general terms with the explanation provided in the VF-1 Master File, in that the VF-1 uses a "rocket mode" for its engines in space, as plasma ion thrusters are technically rocket engines, though that book is not canon) Incidentally, this system is also how the VF-1 (and likely all other VFs) gets around underwater... MHD ion engines have already been used to propel boats using no moving parts and seawater as a propellant. See this Wikipedia article for the general details.

Not just that, but back around 2001-2002 Harmony Gold went back to Tatsunoko and acquired the merchandising rights to DYRL. Since Macross is pretty much the only part of Robotech that sells, and they've gone to so much trouble in their quest to keep Japanese Macross products out of the hands of American fans, it's highly unlikely that Harmony Gold would terminate their relationship with Tatsunoko. Of course, we could say the same solely on the basis that their future development plans for the Robotech animated series require the use of intellectual property from Genesis Climber Mospeada, which is owned by Tatsunoko.

To be honest... he hasn't done anything to deserve that guest of honor spot. Outside of his brief tenure as marketing coordinator for Harmony Gold's Robotech franchise, McKeever doesn't have any actual experience working in the anime industry. He definitely doesn't have any credentials or accolades that'd make him a person of interest for convention-goers at Anime Next. It's a pretty safe bet that the convention organizers wanted Tommy Yune, but he couldn't be arsed to go to a convention that wasn't a major stop on the tour and sent his coffee boy instead. (Just in case you were wondering, McKeever seems to fit the usual Harmony Gold staffer mold in that he's almost totally unqualified for the position he holds. In terms of his qualifications, he has a BFA in Lighting Design from Emerson College, and the most notorious titles in his production credits are Jackass, Kids Say the Darndest Things, and Billy Frankenstein. He also claims to have some experience in theater production, though he doesn't list the titles... only the venues, none of which are particularly impressive. In particular, he seems extremely proud of his work on Jackass, which as most would agree is nothing to be proud of.)

Yes, Smith & Tinker founder Jordan Weisman also co-founded FASA. How involved he was with its day-to-day operation and the events surrounding Harmony Gold v. FASA, we don't know. It does seem odd that he wouldn't have informed his licensees of the constraints, but then again the terms of the settlement in Harmony Gold v. FASA were kept confidentation, as confirmed by Catalyst Game Labs. Catalyst thought they'd found some kind of legal loophole, but apparently it didn't pan out. It's possible that Piranha Games went through a similar situation. Either way, what they did was a clear violation of Harmony Gold's exclusive right to develop and produce merchandise based on the original Macross series for sale outside of Japan, and it looks like both Catalyst and Piranha had an "Oh poo" moment when the cease and desist notices brought it to their attention.

Yes, really. Granted, it's not a direct lift of Macross's Tomahawk destroid design anymore. All the same, the redesigned Warhammer depicted in the game trailer is still a design clearly and recognizably derived from that of Tomahawk destroid. Simply changing a few minor details of someone else's copyrighted design isn't enough to make it an original work. As Harmony Gold has, under license, the exclusive right to produce merchandise based on the original Macross TV series and the Macross: Do You Remember Love? movie outside of Japan, and video games are technically merchandise, Harmony Gold had every right to send cease and desist letters to the publisher and developer demanding the removal of the offending material from the game. In this rare instance, Harmony Gold was entirely in the right and was doing what any company in that position should have done. If anyone's at fault, it's the former owners of the BattleTech and MechWarrior franchise, who reportedly failed to inform the company who purchased the franchise (Catalyst Game Labs) of the details of the settlement in Harmony Gold v. FASA and the constraints it imposed.

Granted, the voice sounds vaguely like Steve Blum... but unless Harmony Gold either goes out of business or loses its trademark on the Macross name in America, we won't be seeing any of the other Macross shows released in America. So, no... that's fake.

Nah, if I was aiming to sound like RedWolf I wouldn't be drawing on canon events in my theories and assertions. It cannot be denied that there is precedent for what I'm suggesting in other canon Macross shows. The in-universe rationale for DYRL shows that large-scale holography was already in use for cinematic purposes over a decade before "The Lynn Minmay Story" was filmed, and Macross Frontier episode 10 shows the use of post-processing to make some modern VF used for filming appear to be a completely different, much older, model. (If you have another explanation for what the "Zentradi battle scene" would've consisted of in the complete absence of Zentradi mecha, I'm all ears... (or is it "all eyes" since this is plaintext?)) This is the important bit Either way, you can't deny that the completed "Lynn Minmay Story", which was intended to be part-documentary, was using actors in DYRL appearance as though it was historically accurate... which also crops up in Macross 7: the Galaxy is Calling Me! in the form of pictures on Emilia's wall... among which is the DYRL version of Max and Milia's wedding shown at the pre-filming party... "Popular" and "Good" aren't necessarily the same thing... I could do without Nekki Sue. Which is still no more credible than the theory I proposed... they were intending to shoot a "Zentradi battle scene", and there were no Zentradi units evident anywhere in the fleet. (For that matter, full-size Zentradi seemed to be right out on City-7, since Mylene was somewhat surprised to see a pair of them at the launch party) So, coming full circle... the whole issue we're dancing around here is that no matter how we attempt to rationalize it, there are just too many contradictory instances of TV and DYRL aesthetics being used with regard to the Zentradi for us to make any definitive declaration about which one is right, or even if both are. It changes at the whim of the director... and changes often.

You've got some events backwards... the first ruling was Big West's copyright confirmation case over ownership of the IP of the original Macross series, and the second was the one in Tatsunoko's favor that had them as owners of the footage itself.... among other things.

Um... I'm also pretty sure any pretense of accuracy went out of the production right around the time the Varauta attacked the production and the film crew decided to record (and apparently use) the resulting dogfight unaltered. Now, it's been a while since I last re-watched Macross: Do You Remember Love?, but I'm pretty sure Hikaru wasn't the one singing at the Zentradi... and I'm also pretty damn sure that Hikaru's Valkyrie wasn't equipped with a speaker pod launcher and that the Zentradi weren't using modified VF-14s. Given the dialogue of the film crew back in episode 11, it seems fairly obvious that the final cut deviated significantly from the original intent of the production... (after all, everything's worse with Basara) So really, it remains entirely possible that the original intent of the production was to replace Basara's VF-19 with a VF-1 in post-production for historical accuracy's sake. Clearly they were going to be doing something with Zentradi mecha too... since the director makes mention of a "Zentradi battle scene", and there are no Regults or Glaugs evident anywhere near or on the ship.

Not necessarily... it's entirely possible that the producers originally intended to do what the producers of the "Birdhuman" movie did, and were using a modern variable fighter as a stand-in for the CG model of the period-appropriate fighter that would be inserted during post-production. Which still does nothing for obvious contradictions like the liberal use of scenes from DYRL in Macross Frontier's expository dialogue as though they were canon.

As you say, the implication of the Extra Report is that it takes place outside of the events of the Macross 7 TV series... that it is outside the normal continuity of Macross 7. There are (generally) three ways to classify material outside of the normal continuity: Expanded Universe (tenuously canon side story), Parallel World (functionally non-canon for the prime universe), and Non-Canon. In this case it doesn't really matter which, since my original point was that we can't take material from "Fleet of the Strongest Women" as being entirely reliable for the purposes of discussing what's what with the main continuity Zentradi (and/or Meltrandi) for that very reason... that it's outside the normal course of the series. An excellent proposal... admittedly not one that solves the contradictions in the depictions of Space War 1, but potentially useful for later Macross stories. Admittedly, that is the case in the TV series depiction... but like everything else it becomes somewhat awkward when we also consider all the areas where the events of DYRL and the TV series seem to occupy a "Schrodinger's continuity", where either can be canon depending on the director's preferences... like how the documentary of Space War 1 filmed aboard City-7 had Basara, Mylene, and their Vrlitwhai actor doing in DYRL style, but their Kamjin in TV style, along with Milia's TV VF-1J and TV flightsuit. Frontier didn't help matters by using Zentradi scenes unique to DYRL in their expository dialogue... Indeed... the creators of Macross II played with that idea when they were doing mechanical designs for the two canon prequel games (Macross 2036 and Macross: Eternal Love Song) by creating a whole family of designs for specific combat roles based on the stock Queadluun-Rau and Nosjadeul-Ger. Not strictly relevant to the continuity we're talking about, but relevant in that the idea is not unprecedented in Macross as a whole even without the intervention of humans (as with the Queadluun-Rea). Possibly, but all other exemplars of the DYRL commander type have all been bald, even those seemingly much younger (though of unknown age). At the time DYRL was released, Vrlitwhai would've been (according to his TV series bio) about 56 years old. Definitely not too early for male pattern baldness, if the Zentradi are even susceptible to such a thing.

Well, if we take the stated intent of Macross Chronicle at face value, then the canonicity of the Macross works being covered wasn't necessarily a factor... if it was, then their decision to include Macross II, which isn't part of the main (ongoing) continuity's canon, is truly strange. Getting pack to this thread's original topic... Oh, I'd forgotten about that... though even if we exclude Chlore's fleet in FotSW there're still Milia's red DYRL-model Queadluun-Rau in episode 11. Which was the whole point... trying to construct a rationale is impossible because there doesn't appear to be any rhyme or reason to their use of DYRL or TV designs aside from the personal preference of the director/writer/whoever.

What? The closest any incarnation of the Macross timeline has ever come to acknowledging the events of FotSW was a two-paragraph Extra Report included on one of the Macross Chronicle timeline sheets. It wasn't included in the airing order, and it isn't even really a part of Macross 7 Encore either. It's an extra feature tacked onto the last volume of the home video release of the series. Its omission from the broadcast run of the series and the timeline is telling enough without it essentially being a deleted scene. We can ballpark where the two actual Encore episodes take place, but all we can say about the unaired FotSW episode is that it has to be somewhere after episode 28... other than that all bets are off. The unaired episode "Fleet of the Strongest Women" is ambiguously canon at best. Realistically it should enjoy the same non-canon but acknowledged status as deleted scenes. (Were it something like Good Morning Mylene, where you could fit it in anywhere without disrupting other events it would be one thing, but FotSW's events are simply too big to handwave away like that) EDIT: Either way, it's only one small part of the whole "whose Zentradi is it anyway" situation... canon or no, there's enough conflicting material on the TV and DYRL sides to keep it entirely ambiguous.

FotSW being outside the normal continuity, the prime example is the occasional references to Milia as being Meltrandi, and the use of DYRL designs in their documentary about SW1... including showing Max and Milia's dogfight with Max in a VF-1S and Milia in a red Queadluun-Rau. It's not quite as clear cut as using one term to mean the other... there's a definite case of implying that DYRL is the more accurate depiction there... All the same, the whole matter of explaining which version of the Zentradi is "right" remains unsolvable due to the pick-and-choose nature of Kawamori's use of them.

Which sounds like retroactive arse-covering to me... but whatever, the end result is he's saying "don't think too much about it", which is sound advice. Warning! Incoming qualifying statement! Representations of the Zentradi, space fold, etc. vary in depiction in the main Macross continuity only. In the Macross II parallel world continuity, the presentation of the Zentradi, space fold travel, etc. is pretty consistent, which could easily be attributed to its use of DYRL as the sole, canon depiction of Space War 1 rather than the main continuity's mix-and-match approach. (Which is not to say that it doesn't contain some minor references to the main continuity, like an explanation for why the VF-1D doesn't show up, why the GBP-1 was first used on the VF-1J, and the UNS-remodeled bridge of Vrlitwhai's ship looking suspiciously similar to the TV series version)

All things considered, any attempt to compose a rational theory to explain away the use of designs from both the original Macross series and DYRL in newer main continuity material is always going to be a complete boondoggle so long as Kawamori doesn't want to be tied down to one version or the other. There's simply no rhyme or reason to his use of the designs from either series, since he's played mix and match with both on more than one occasion. Macross Frontier's "Missing Birthday" and "Fastest Delivery" weren't the most blatant contradiction, just the most recent one... Macross 7's documentary episode had a DYRL Vrlitwhai and a TV series Quamzin. There was also the use of the term "Meltran" in Macross 7 to describe Milia, whereas Macross Frontier has Klan Klan identifying herself as Zentradi instead. Macross 7 also supplied a rationale to explain why Exsedol switched from his TV series look to the DYRL redesign, seemingly implying that his TV appearance was the original one, but no rationale exists for the other occurrences of DYRL designs. EDIT: RedWolf raised another interesting contradiction... in FotSW, Chlore and her fleet are DYRL designs, but they act as though they were in a TV series-style relationship with the Zentradi forces... as their allies, rather than their rivals. Now that Frontier is playing silly frakkers and trotting out a heavier emphasis on DYRL, who knows what's what as far as the Zentradi are concerned? By all accounts they're using the DYRL designs just because they look cooler half the time.

Unfortunately, from what others have told me in their attempts to share the increasingly imbecilic goings-on of the usual crowd of Robotech.com trolls and wankers, that seems to be the case. Rhade and ShadowLogan could hold their own in intelligent discourse, if only they could be persuaded to drop their asinine, long-discredited pet theories and their insane defense of the indefensible. Other than that, the knowledgeable folks have pretty much been banned for "heresy". Quoted for truth, justice, and epic quantities of win. Which could easily be taken as a fair definition of the remaining fanbase... In the interest of fairness, this is probably the most active Robotech-related topic on any forum devoted to either Robotech or Macross, and it's almost exclusively facepalming and mockery.