1/1 LowViz Lurker

I like yamato. The wave motion gun = the sdf1 main gun The dogfighting is cool and the ship's crew similar to the sdf1 are struggling to cope and stay alive. So there is a little suspense as well. The bad guys are kind of like the zentradi because they look human but thier skin color is different. I think Desler might be related to Kamjin. There is some humor. I think analyser is better than R2D2 from star wars and has more personality. There is even romance and dramatic deaths. (even robots can have thier feeling hurt - if only analyser met Sharon Apple..) If only the fighters could transform into mecha though.. And NO, Phalanx, the fighters do not need to be remade. I think they look cool as they are. Also the main chracter looks like Hikaru. This is what Hikaru should have acted like after he grew up a bit, post SW I.

They do more than that in all that sick yaoi that perverted anime fangirls buy. I was serious about seeing Lacus go all corrupt. She is the most interesting character in the series - like minmay but with all the connections and more mysterious. (like her seed mode) She should use that Seed mode to control ship-sized versions of bits with her mind. This seed mode thing is similar to rahxephon where you see the water drop in a puddle. What is that symbolic of? (or is it just coincidence that it is seen in another show?)

That looks really good! I notice they have it standing without the stand to support it. The extendable arm looks funny. My two fave modes:

But think of all the money that would be made from international fanbase? I hate to see HG benefit, but if it means cheaper prices, better price range, and more valks for me to buy (because I can afford more) then I say to BW it is a sacrifice that might be worth it in the long run for the fans. The Rtech people would be in thier 20-40s with interest in old school series and if they can get that international market and fans can spread the word, then it might mean more profit for Yamato and boost thier profile amoungst toy fanatics. Just on a sidenote: Personally I think yamato should be making the Alpha and Beta! Even if it were labelled RT toys, if it meant yamato could gain an international base of fans (who were exposed to it as RT) then they would reap benefits.

I agree so much with this. Argh! If only we could avoid importing these things and wasting so much money. In the long run it is fans of that specific series that are the collectors not people who are out to make massive bucks when they can do other things. Even if yamato for example were to boost the price of a new toy I know for sure fans on this board wouldn't complain because they are desperate and have the money to burn and it might be of a mecha design they are fond of and can't get anywhere. Look at the alphas for example. If people want something badly enough they will find a way to scrap together the cash to get it knowing they are getting ripped off. But to those without so much money 1 or 2 is enough, and we hope that casual fans might be able to afford one too to share this with others and get them into it. At least with star wars, they were within reasonable price to begin with so a collection was possible. But I realise macross is dying, and should have really died a long time ago and people moved on. So I am grateful that there is a new stuff coming out. Since there is not much interest or competition and the masses probably don't know or care what the old series was about it is expected the fans are the ones keeping the memory alive. Once the fanbase is gone however, (people age and move to other things) I think there won't be the MIB hoarder/collectors to sell to these desperate people. I think maybe one of the reasons the comic industry might have died was because marvel didn't care about quality and took less of a fan aporoach and pissed fans off so they left. I liken this to the videogame crash when ET game came out and the only people into the industry were investors who cared nothing about the quality of the actual game itself, (only the $$$$) so people thought gaming was just a fad and left the hobby because the games started to really suck and not be worth the money people paid for them. And then nintendo came in and dominated the home console market in the 80s (releasing triple AAA titles) to where they are today. (not really dominating anymore but enjoying great success with fan loyalty who can tell the difference between a poo game and good one due to years of fanaticism and keeping the hobby alive) I do not think there will be another game crash now because the mistakes of the past have now been fixed and people are more smart and aware than when they were back in the days of pac man where thier attitude was gaming = a fad or passing trend. I would laugh at people with that kind of attitude today. Although I do worry that biggest companies will merge together to survive and to compete which might mean the largest left standing has a monopoly in future. (which affects choices in future) Now the same thing is with toys when a better version of something comes out (for example the yamato and toynami vf1) the older ones (chunky munky) usually drop in value if the newer one supercedes the older in quality unless the older one has 'historical value'. (just for being ooooold and a part of that era where it all began) It's only biased fans of the old version that attribute value to it and this is where ebay comes in for those who own the old stuff to rip off the fan by charging whatever the fan will pay. The highest bidder is like a guy who sees value in something that others do not see. (like some guy who looks at a crap painting but loves the artist or something and has lots of money to waste) But lets go back to my golden rule: so long as the fans are still there in years to come (and it looks like it is slowly dying) there will be people to sell the stuff to. And this is where I say: I wish a new generation was into it as much as the older generation because right now people are going to spend it on other things if they have multiple interests. And part of the reason stopping new fans getting into it(the expansion of the fanbase), is that legal mess which blocks the stuff from exposure in other markets which boosts the price out of the price range of the ordinary person. Only the hardcore (but small and dying) hardest core fans will eat it up.

I have imagined it. I would be buying more valks that is for sure.

bwahahaha I thought they would pull something like that!! It would be funny if they actually had the box with "Robotech the movie" on it.

The way I see it: There is always somebody out there with too much money to burn and after things they weren't around for when they were first released. (so the value TO THEM is worth more than the actual value - like how some people can apreciate an old thing as if they were part of some cult. Maybe it is like the bruce lee nunchucks in cowboy bepop ) I actually thought he was being sarcastic. That's true! But I hope for the sake of newer fans that yamato do keep reissuing to keep it within reasonable price to them. Even if this pisses off collectors it might ensure more macross stuff is made. You know what is funny: the VF11B FP is like the price of a 1/48 now on ebay. Maybe the whole "RARE RARE RARE" in the item description can be justified in a few years if yamato one day discontinues them and the 1/48 for whatever reason. You can never predict the future. Maybe as others have said the fanbase dies, no new toys are made because it is thought "not profitable" by the major toy companies, and this boosts the demand for that toy by huge amount because of a drought of anything new in that franchise? (considered dead) I imagine the 1/48 is milkable because it is of a franchise where there are so many variants of the same thing. (vf1 comes in so many colours.) eg of others where the price could steadily go up: 1/72 yf21: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Macross-Plus-YF-21-...1QQcmdZViewItem 1/72 VF11: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/VF-11B-Yamato-Valky...1QQcmdZViewItem If the fanbase were to completely die off for macross, (no new kids buying them up like gundam models) the prices could end up going up and up and up, and those become sort of the "chunky munky for mac+" that the desperate fan buys for $1000 in like 10 years or something.

Which is why watching the tv series will be a more enriching experience storywise. People might want to know what started the war.. People might want to know why the ship has to change into a fricken giant robot just to fire a gun because it involves killing people to do so! People might want to know what happened to max. They could have added some extra scenes showing him becoming attached to the giant alien girl so it is clear to the audience why he is fighitng alongside them in an alien mecha. Rather than a few seconds. The argument that just because you don't need the details to enjoy the movie means therefore you are not missing out on much by ignoring the tv series is silly. Yes I admit you can watch the movie without that much confusion, but those details make the characters smaller and the world around them bigger. (like there is important stuff happening in the background beyond the love triangle of the three main characters - weddings, how characters deal with death, propaganda, being betrayed and used as a shield, racism, the use of different battle tactics depending on the environment they fight in, flashbacks that help flesh out who the characters are and thier relationships to each other etc) For example the Byebye mars ep really softened up misa's image up a lot and made her less bitchy, and her opening up and revealing why she is in the military (because she comes from a family with military background so the pressure to live up to her dad is there) made us see her less as a cold manhater. Pressure from dad = obsession with the sdf1 which the bridge bunnies make fun of her for. (knowing the reasons for why is important in getting us to like her more) Her former BF dying on mars = she does like men after all. (knowing this lets us see she is just an ordinary person like the other bridge bunnies, and gives a reason for her behaviour. ie maybe she was holding onto the hope that she would have a life with this person in future and now she had no reason to live after he was dead. The movie doesn't explain that this flame is alive or dead) Mention of Anti UN = there are bad guys other than the aliens. (the reason this is important is it shows that humans can be just as warlike as the bad guy aliens in the story. If we want to get philosophical about it, a zentradi can say that we are no different from them but with weaker and crappier weapons and less opportunity to kill other aliens on other planets. The evil is inside man as much as the zentradi, since if we were so perfect we wouldn't have wars) Movie is great for action. Tv is like being a fly on the wall and spying on the characters to get a more 3d view of them. It also had a much better ending: knowing that the aliens would one day come back and could attack again and that we would need to leave it; and that this victory over them is the tip of the iceberg, is a more realistic expectation than the sappy one in the movie about an how an ancient britney spears type pop song awoke a dormant memory that suddenly made them all into pacifists. (ie this effect wore off in the tv series showing there were some people in the world who just can't be pacified and should be killed to protect others)

This is a good point. If you think about the zentradi and how outnumbered humans would be fighting armies of giants, (they use energy weapons too, but thank god they can't repair which is our saving grace) you would need a lot of power to take them on especially with how they like to fight up close. The strike cannon on the VF1 valks for example makes the vf1 look ugly (and they can't even be used in an atmopshere showing the limitations of this) but it is there for a reason, not to look good but as a way to adapt to the situation the valk is in. It is the same way I can still apreciate the dated boxy GBP because to me it HAS to look ugly (like a powerful tank or a mack truck over a high performance sleek sportcar) in keeping with the ground mecha like the destroids which sit on the spot unloading everything they have without much use for fancy manuevers. So long as the extra armor absorbs damage and increases survivability, who cares that it lacks beauty? The extra space and overall chunkiness means it can hold more. The first time you see hikaru walk about in the VF1j with GBP in the tv series as the hulking mass walks across the deck there is a sense that this thing has power. And because it is going to fight in an open environment having stuff all over its body makes sense (in the style of the Qrau where it doesn't rely on directed weapons so much as unleashing its hive of micromissiles - you can imagine the fright of a Qrau pilot accidentally killing it's own wingmates after using the missiles in the side covers ). The comment about stuff sticking out of the body: well in space it makes sense. If you look at the massive Giga launcher thingies in gundam, note how massive they are to a point they are like vehicles and that you only need to push these things around (like the equivalanet of a cannon that you wheel around) as opposed to 'carrying' them? And what about that massive mobile armor in Stardust memory with the long ass gun that looks like a stinger for an insect? True it wouldn't work in gravity but the size and all the poo and equipment and gadgets it carries allows for a sustained fight against many enemies. The only thing I disagree with though is the negative comment on VF11. I think this looks nice in fighter mode. The cannon fodders in macross 7 should be grateful for having the chance to fly this.

http://www.macrossworld.com/macross/magazi...ng-cm-page7.jpg Would so love a toy that is close to that. Note the "skinny" look of the valk as opposed to the chunky look in battroid mode? All valks need to look skinny unless wearing the GBP armor. (this is what I mean by giving the mecha a sense of feminine grace and look of speed) All those pics in the tv series of the vf1 in "fat proportioned" anime magic form actually spoil my image of what the valk should be. Also, even though the stampede looks ugly, it is a type "bad ass" ugly, because it has all this heavy weapons strapped to it like rambo to solve the lack of firepower prob. It is why I think the Fast packs on a vf1 shows the logic of boosting an existing thing for performance gain versus starting from scratch which could be expensive. The gradual change from valk to super valk looks natural, as if they needed a patch fix to respond to zentradi who were better in space so everything looks patched together for a small gain. There isn't some huge technological jump like 30 years or anything. The more modern valks would stick out like a sore thumb amoungst VF1's and that is a good thing that the VF1 stays the way it does. Like the fictional world has some tolkien-esque depth and fantasy psuedo-realism to it.

Models are cool. Yamato needs to make fixed posed robot hands as cool as the ones in those pics. I always thought it was unfair that the DYRL valks only got one pair of hands while the tv ones got two pairs. (maybe when they get around to giving us some macross plus valks)

Well just then somebody made a comment in a thread about how max killed milia in DYRL when he didn't. It's just that it was so brief they didn't have time to think about it in depth (like a few seconds showing a blue QRau, and a scene where max comments on how beutiful the alien looks), whereas in the series more time is dedicated to them episode by episode. I was just watching RahXephon the movie the other day and even though it only goes for 2 hours I couldn't connect as much to each character as I would have in the tv series. It just felt like a montage of everything seen in the series. Jumping from one event to another to cram as much as possible in as short a space they can. The slower pace is good for those moments where you wnat to get to know the character in depth. What they are thinking, how they are reacting and changing thier attitude slowly about things like war, seeing the character get married etc and like you are there with them as they live thier life. (like the godfather trilogy or something ) Although not required, it really helps to flesh out the backstory and explain HOW things came to be. for eg: the sdf1 transforming into a giant humanoid robot for accidental purposes in the tv series. But how in the movie you just witness it happen and left to guess. A fan should be asking "Why the hell does this have to happen, when it would endanger the onboard civilians and crush thier skulls and have thier heads chopped off? Seems stupid." But the series explains that little detail and makes the SDF1 seem all the more interesting. Personally I think the SDF1 is more heroic in the tv series because of the way it fights: using the deadalus manuever to punch holes into things, smashing its body into the hulls and releasing missiles and then creating a force field to protect itself, being told it must go back out into space to fight to draw enemy fire; thrown out to the wolves by the UNG whilst not being able to unload the civilians onboard who have no business being on the ship to begin with etc Although it may not be required to understand the basic idea of the series, it gives people a point of reference when they are given the full story from the very start of the war as opposed to chucking us right into space halfway through thier 1 year journey. Some questions like: "Why doesn't earth have other ships like the SDF1 to help fight the aliens? Where is UN SPACY's space fleet?" should be asked. I know I would be asking this question. But the tv series shows that the SDF1 is earth's 'first of its kind' and that the alien tech is still experimental to them, with humans only half understanding how the actual things inside the ship work. We get this indication that humans are only just starting out and technology like the Valk is still kinda new. Tv series covers all the small stuff the geek wants to know. It also helps boost the atmosphere a little too. (ie that the insignificant character is a small part of a bigger whole)

I think noobs might want to know who kamjin is though. And they might want to see battles on earth and on the ground and see regult and glaug get some action. Then when the Qrau finally makes its debut and Milia kicks butt for the first time the sense of awe at seeing something new is there. Tv series are great for 'building up' a character or introducing us to them in a more dramatic fashion then what you might get in the movie which is time limited. Sometimes you want to know "how" something was achieved and the little details might be interesting to know. (like what was hikaru's feelings when he first discovered these mysterious aliens and how the planes could transform? Was his real motivation for becoming a fighter pilot just to rescue the girl and impress, or duty to helping mankind survive? Seeing the gradual changes in his attitude is possible when each episode is more slowly paced) Although people like the more mature versions of the character in the movie it is nice to know you are along for the ride in a tv series and know what is in the character's heads and stuff. In the movie Max suddenly appears in a Qrau and it is not explained what led him to be with the zentradi all of a sudden. Just seems kinda added in because we know those two hook up from what we've seen before. But to somebody who didn't see the series it would just seem out of place and hard to believe.

Well I am one of those that like the skinny valk look if it is skinny all over. But if you look at the "popeye the sailor man" forearm in the bottom pic, the vf1 actually looks beefy. Short plus wide = stout. Tall and skinny = clumsy and delicate. Note how the shoulders are kinda squarish and tough looking, giving the robot a more menacing look to it? (unlike the vf11 it is well armored on all sides) I wish the 1/48 yamato had the 'man arms' of the 1/60 yamato and beefy hands to hold the gunpod. Too skinny is bad if other parts are fat.

I hope they show some detailed transformation pics of the sv51.

Cool organic robots are finally here. Now we need a giant alien, incase it in armor, give it onboard weapons wired to its brain which respond to its signals and make an eva.

So they won't make a third series where lacus clyne goes evil and corrupt and takes over the world and space and rules both with an iron fist by secretly manufacturing newer more powerful mobile suits behind everyone's back?

For what it is worth: I don't think the idea of a redesign is stupid but more so the idea that one SHOULD happen for no reason is stupid. No I don't think you are stupid (very persistant though) but you got to understand the VF1 was looking modern during the time in the story and when the series was created. Newer valks made after it just look even MORE modern with the advances made and more time and funding for R&D. Making the VF as modern as the newer valks will spoil the chronology and people will go: "hey that thing doesn't look in keeping with the times, how can the humans know about all this new tech if it didn't exist back then?!" (this is actually what happened with VF0 where some people think it looks too out of place) There are good reasons for doing it and bad reasons for doing it. But above all: I think having a show featuring the mecha actually helps to promote the toy/model in a sense because people tend to buy what they know. That's a pretty logical reason for not upgrading it. If people see something they are not familiar with, will they hunt for the toy? Maybe, but the show's exposure helps. If everyone knows macross and they see 'macross toys/models', fully familiar with the valkryie and the concept of the transformation, that adds alot. This is why I am so cynical: if you think about it movies like star wars now are an ad for cool toys. I probably would not have bought any transformers as a kid or adult if I didn't know the characters from the cartoon. So having a show or a reason to do a redesign would be my requirment for it to happen if I were SK. (and I doubt there is going to be a remake of the original tv series or a retelling of the story with new designs the same way seed was trying to be the original MSG for new generation of fans) What I proposed a while ago in a thread was that it would be cool if they continue an alternate universe series with valks the way Gundam Wing was an AU. Unique timeline, maybe a different set of aliens and enemies, original mecha like what you see in M II. (after all macross plus wasn't even supposed to be part of macross in the first place was it?) But to many this would be reinventing the wheel and milking an old story, like the gundam AU whose storyline is so predictable for the older audience because although it looks different it contain all the same ingredients: A guy with a mask, a kid with an uncanny knowledge of machines, people with psychic powers, the use of colony drop as a last ditch attempt to kill sizable population of the planet (great population control strategy ) etc But the good thing for this is it would keep the macross name alive in the newer generation fans' minds. (if macross II never happened we might not have even seen any future macross stories) See I think after the TV series macross was really supposed to be closed off forever. The story that was told was told, and the fans should have expected to wither away and forget it, moving onto new things. The only reason today why toys are around might be that they want to cash in on the adult fans who are old enough to spend wads of cash on high detail versions of thier favourite things for nostalgiac reasons. But compared to gundam it is pretty much only a harcore cult following more than mainstream.

Yes would love translated text too.

It's a seperate vehicle in the story but you can consider it the less boxy version of what the vf1 is. ie same transformation, similar head turrets, gunpod looks close to the original 80s vf1 gunpod,..yet it has stuff that is modern like the cockpit, more detail in the head, robotic hands rather than bubble hands etc. What you want is a model kit of vf1 with no boxy look, but without a show, to appeal to people who like modern aircraft, but it isn't part of the canon which will destroy what has already been made? OK Bandai! Start making some Perfect Grade vf1 already (with a gundam wing paintscheme) so the thread can sink already. Since the vf1 won't be canon you can create a fictional backstory. Something like: the ORB government in gundam seed opened a portal to another dimension and stole some scientists from the macross universe to design the new Murasame Valk called the VFF1. The Variable Fanfic Fighter. They scrap the GERWALK mode, make the machine more futuristic, erase the memories of the scientists, sedate them and bring the scientists back to the macross universe who will wake up and believe it was all a dream. Orb uses the VFF1 only for super secret missions so you don't ever see this in the universe for fear the technology will fall into the wrong hands and be stolen.

I would have to agree with people who are fans of the tv series. TV series is a more realistic telling of events, and you get a good variety of different mecha shown and used in the context of what the episode is about. For example to see hikaru use the gerwalk to rescue misa and minmay. To see the fighter used for dogfights, and to see the battroid mode as an emergency mode to transform in when crashing into buildings (because robot mode is the most robust), to see the GBP armor as a more heavily armed and amored addon to boost the ability of the existing valkyrie, and finally to see the FAST Pack armor transform the vf1 into super version of itself, ....all highlights to the viewer the versatility and reasons behind the modular transformation of these machines. You just don't get that in the movie version. For example the SDF1 having it's fold drive disapear, and the need to move into attack mode to fire the cannon all makes sense when you see these events and a whole episode can show them. The movie just skips all these little details which adds up in the end, and to fans who have seen the series already, the movie kinda feels almost like a music video. There are however other things in the movie which were handled much better: when you see them fly in formation and use fighter for long distance to shoot the missiles, then go into gerwak to brake and reduce speed, and then battroid mode for close combat: I like that about the opening scene because it summarises the advantages in having a 3 mode vehicle. DYRL has much more emotion and soul put into to it, of course. But there is just so much cool stuff about the tv series that you have to see if you want the complete picture. (ie how zentradi gradually struggle with thier warrior instinct vs thier human emotions which brings them closer to who they were originally as opposed to what they were genetically grown for.) It gives us the story from many different angles and through the eyes of many different characters, not just looking at the love triangle only. As for plus, that is the top gun of macross. How can you not like it? The mecha fighting alone make it worth seeing even if you hate the story. Oh and BTW if you want to get the most out of +, please watch both the movie version and OVA. I just can't resist not wanting to see the opening scene where the vf11 fight the zentradi. Fans of the VF11 should watch the bit where the bayonet is used to gut the zentradi mecha because the gunpod jammed. hehe Guld probably tampered with it before hand! Too bad it got such poor treatment in macross 7. I would trade a scene of lucy's tits for more vf11 action anyday.

But who would buy it if the existing ones are better at the job? At least with robots there is a purpose. Toys for example, helping the elderly, as cheap drones to spy on the enemy, disarming bombs safely etc Even powered suits I can see money in it: carrying a heavy load like the power loader in aliens. Maybe in future these will be used for military purpose. SK should stick to toys. Sometimes the things you see in anime are just not possible like the way some of the fighters move in it - dodging and weaving through swarms of micromissiles with grace and style. Really they look better in a cartoon world because they break all the rules. If the real version can't live up to the legend, why bother?

So that really rich anime fans who were into gundam can finally realise thier dream of flying the core fighter cosplaying as Amuro Ray of course. (a bit like that otaku who wanted to go into space dressed up as char has the money to do it)

Was there an official name for the credit card valk? I keep calling it the credit card valk which sounds stupid. It's the "Goth" paint scheme. It's a custom valk that one of ivanov's friends made so he could get revenge on roy for killing him after the unification wars. Of course this event didn't make it into the tv series and roy got beaten by a stray bullet instead. Instead of roy dying from loss of blood he was to have a stand off at the end of the series with this guy after SW I but it never happened. /jk