danth

The REF Field Manual had a ton of real line art, but every other RPG book was chock full of Palladium's own medicore artwork.

Wrong. The Macross and Southern Cross books had lots of original line art. They also had artwork by some other guy. But, unlike the Robotech artbooks, the RPGs had lineart of the support vehicles, transformation sequences, various shots of the Armored Valkyrie, etc etc.

What part of 1986 English language artbook don't you understand? It was great for the time, and you really cant judge it by today's standards.

The RPGs came out in 86 also, and had way more lineart.

Seriously, I know it's become the thing to do in this thread to disagree with me for the hell of it, but this is retarded. There are obvious reasons to find the Robotech artbooks lacking.

I saw Ruin Explorers and really liked it. It's more goofy than serious. And not stupid goofy, but funny goofy. I say give it a try.

What are you talking about? Both Robotech Art 1 and 3 are full of line art. I don't have Robotech Art 2, but the entire purpose of that book was fan art as I recall.

Art 1 has a good amount of character line art, and a good four pages of valkyrie lineart, but other than that, you get two small pictures of only the popular mecha (thee if your lucky), almost no supporting vehicles, no transformation sequences, etc. There's almost nothing on the Cyclones or Invid. The robotech RPGS had way more lineart.

So yes, for an artbook, barely any lineart.

Roger has not stated nor made the claim that HG is the copyright holders.

He has stated that HG is the legitimate license holder in the United States. The actual Japanese owners of the copyright of the material believe so too.

Well, I'm not a lawyer, but I thought the whole point of a license is that it gives you a copyright.

Anyway, my statements are only pissing people off. I've already made my points, and nobody agrees, so I guess it's over for me. I really doubt the artbook is gonna happen, but I hope I'm wrong.

Kudos on the hard work pulling together the materials and putting it in a format. I hope that you can work out a deal and earn an income for work you appear to have enjoyed doing. To heck with the people who didn't do any of the work and want the rewards for free.

I just want to point out that anime bootleggers do a lot of hard work too. Illegally copying and distributing anime takes a lot of time and money. That doesn't mean I'm going to support them. I'd much rather download a fansub than support bootleggers, although I'll always buy R1 licensed anime instead of downloading it.

This is slightly different because Roger is trying to go through HG, the (supposedly*) legitimate license holder. If he was just going to hand the stuff over to them, he'd be my hero. But he's trying to score big off it, which makes it way less likely the images will ever be published. He's already shown he'd rather wait for years so he can make money then let anyone see it for free. That's funny, because he didn't pay a dime for it (putting quarters in a copy machine doesn't count**). But he wants us to pay him for it indirectly through an HG-released artbook.

Like I said, if he just gave it over to HG, it'd be different. If he bought Imai's actual original copies, it would be totally different. But he's trying to make money from all of us for his illegal, unpaid for copies? AND he wants US to do the legwork for him by pestering Harmony Gold? That really rubs me the wrong way.

Now if he's working on the actual book, doing translations, layout, everything, and he presents the prototype to HG and says "Take it or leave it," that might be okay. He could technically claim he was selling his work and not the copies of the images. But from what I've read, the message is: "I'm sitting on copies of stuff you all want, now go pester Harmony Gold so they'll buy it from me."

* I say HG is the supposed copyright holder because the samples I've seen are unused designs. If the designs were never used in Mospeada or Southern Cross, it might not be included in their respective licenses.

** Although I don't have any problem with Harmony Gold paying Roger for the actual cost of copying the materials, or even paying him a finders fee.

WOW. I'm just going to let this quote stand by itself.

And with that, I am done.

It really is that simple. You copied Artmic's designs, without their premission, and now you want to sell the copies. If you're fine with copyright illegality (which you obviously are, and hell, so am I), posting them on the internet would be the obvious thing to do if you can't make money from it any other way.

Which leads me to ask: what will you do if Harmony Gold says "No"?

I know you're honor bound to the guy who let you scan them, but since he's your friend (according to the Super 7 article), I'm sure you could ask him if you could just post them on the internet, sell them on eBay, or whatever.

Danth - you're arguement makes no sense; and that's from legal, moral, and as a fellow fan, standpoints.

Um...so you believe:

* The holder of the actual artwork should get no money, but Roger, the guy who scanned it illegally, should

* Harmony Gold will treat the artwork with the respect it deserves

* Harmony Gold will lift a finger to make this artbook so all the fans can see this art

* It is clear that Harmony Gold owns all these unused designs

Or are you just talking out your ass?

No. Freelance writing is not my gravy train, it's really just something I do mainly for fun but I treat it the same way as I do my regular career. I do a professional job, and I don't do it for free.

I'm not sure what this has to do with freelance writing.

I think that's obvious. That's one of the reasons I've been working with Harmony Gold.

It's not even obvious if Harmony Gold has the copyright. These are unused Artmic designs, right? They were never even used in Mospeada. Although I haven't seen all of the images you have; maybe some of them feature actual Mospeada designs. But what makes you think Harmony Gold doesn't already have these images laying around? If Imai had them, I don't see why Harmony Gold wouldn't too.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion regarding Robotech Art 1-3, but you haven't seen the new art book, so to say that "this hasn't changed" is an unfair assessment.

There's a new artbook? Sweet. I hope it's good.

1) As you stated above, I don't have the rights to publish exact reproductions of these designs in the USA.

Well, come on. I'm talking about posting these on the internet. The internet is built on copyright infringement.

2) The people that own the materials allowed me to catalog and copy them after I reassured them that they would only be used in a legitimate project that involved the US license holder. Later, they gave me permission to use the handful of sketches in the Super7 article as well as the one that I posted on Captain JLS' blog.

If you gave these people your word, then you're honor bound. That's a good reason not to post them on the internet.

3) I flew to Japan to get the materials, including a bullet train trip to where they were being stored.

4) My friends and I worked for several weeks cataloging and translating the materials.

5) Last but not least, in addition to travel expenses, I have spent a lot of money scanning these and eventually shipping them back to Japan.

I don't see why this matters. One, you don't work for free, remember? I'm sure you were compensated for all this. Two, digging through Imai's treasure trove sounds like a nerd's dream, so I don't exactly feel sorry for you.

Granted, I am a fan of these shows, but I never would have invested this effort if I wasn't going to get the material published legitimately and in a way that showcases the thought and detail that the original creators put into it. Simply dumping it on the internet (where someone is even more likely to copy and distribute the materials and my work with no benefit to me) is not an option.

Harmony Gold is going to showcase the thought and detail of the original creators? Have you ever heard of Robotech? "Dumping" them on the internet would allow everyone to enjoy them without Harmony Gold (who butchered Mospeada along with Macross and Southern Cross) getting a single cent.

And now a question for you:Given what you know now about the situation regarding these, put yourself in my position. Would you put them on the internet without a second thought? If so, why? What would give you the right to do this? What would motivate you to do it all for free?

The promise to those who let you scan the art would be the only thing holding me back. As for "rights," I don't think in terms of rights. I think in terms of "how much happiness can I spread to fellow fans."

You said in the Super 7 magazine that you dreamed of the designs being published. When I read that, I immediately thought "just post them on the internet." I guess you meant that you wanted to make some money from it. That's fine, but I seriously doubt Harmony Gold is gonna go through all the trouble just so you can make some cash. If they do, I'll be the first to buy the new artbook.

I just don't see how you're entitled to any money from this. You don't own the copyright (although that didn't stop you from copying all the images or trying to claim copyright on the blog interview) or the original images from the Imai trove. Shouldn't the people who bought the Imai stuff make the money?

It all comes down to this: withholding images that all the fans want to see in hopes of cashing out on something you don't even own is completely unethical.

Hey, I know a way this guy can get these images published.

[whisper]It's called the internet.[/whisper]

Not to be a jerk, but does this guy think he's gonna retire by selling a few pages of mecha designs? He doesn't even own the copyrights. Harmony Gold's previous Artbooks are a joke (mostly text with some crummy fan art and barely any line art); they can't do anything right. This hasn't changed.

Am I out of line here? If I had found these designs, I would have put them on the internet without a second thought. Why hasn't Roger done just that?

You seem very determined to make a "they raped my childhood" argument here.

This show

is not

for

you

But it's still gonna suck.

Southern Cross' 25th anniversary is in 2009, but less people in Japan care about Southern Cross than they do MOSPEADA. Don't hold your breath waiting for more toys or models.

Still, I couldn't pass up a transformable Spartan Hovertank if they made one.

I like Mylene.

Why must the stoic grimace of mature heroes be replaced with the poo-eating smirk of young punks?

I'd put money on this just being a metal version of the Imai 1/48.

And I don't think it'll be a "new take," I think it'll be a near exact copy. Along the same lines as the Aoshima Aliens Dropship.

If so, will it be pre-assembled like a toy?

Yeah thanks alot Valkyrie, it's impressive to see 600 people have downloaded via torrent.

I never thought an obscure show like this would get this kind of exposure, it's good to see.

Hell yeah. We need to do this stuff more often. When I downloaded it there were like 33 seeds.

Bring on the old obscure anime torrents!

Hey guys.

I discovered this show last night, and this thread pops up today. Weird.

Anyway, I don't like new anime. The designs aren't as artful, the animation sucks, retarded melodrama, etc. But I LIKE this show. The animation is really good. It's jokes are actually kinda funny. Crazy.

They say in the review "it's not that new anime is bad, but..." It sounds so insincere!

Actually i just remembered something i read ages ago. The way the disc in interlaced means it won't play properly on a computer but should play perfectly on a dvd player so it sounds to me that your disc is actually find danth.

EDIT - does the original R2 disc play perfectly on your computer? Also have you tried playing with any different software besides Windows Media Player?

What brand and model number is your dvd player? You might be able to find a code of the net to make it region free so you can test it on there.

Weirdness -- my computer will play the region 2 DYRL disc even though it's set to region 1!

Anyway, the original disc plays fine. So I dunno what the problem is. I realized that the skipping is not necessarily in the same spots. Sometimes it will skip badly, and I'll rewind and watch the scene again, and it will play fine. Or it will rewind super slow and a few seconds to go back one frame.

I think I'll just try it again with another disc.

EDIT: Yay!!!!!!!! I used Nero to shrink the DVD image onto a 4.7 gig DVD+R and it now plays just fine. I'm thinking the Memorex dual layer DVDs I bought aren't super compatible with home DVD players.

Also,

THANKS, HURIN!

Here is the full image of this picture, seen on posters and the Robotech RPG:

You rock! I've always loved that picture. Never saw the full picture before.

Crap, I tried to watch this and my file is corrupted. I'll have to try downloading again.

GARR!

I demuxed and compiled the DVD image again -- on a completely different computer -- and the DVD image still skips frequently during playback on my computer. It's mostly the audio that skips, once every few minutes. I had no other programs running during the creation of the DVD image or during playback.

Maybe the R2 disc itself has problems. I don't have a region-free player but I'll try to watch it somehow to see if it skips too.

I tried this last night. Unfortunately the burned DVD skips like crazy. The final DVD image also skips a litle bit when I watch it on my computer.

The subtitles are great though.

I think the DVD player/burner I'm using might be messed up. I onced used it to burn some straight copies of movies that had no copy protection and they skpped bit too.

Any other ideas of what the problem could be?

The subtitle a .htm. Is that right? Does it work like a .ass file?

This is one of those things where I really want to get excited but I'm too afraid to get my hopes up. So in effect I'm just nervous.

Anything from Artmic is fine with me...

Ditto. Have you seen the two Entertainment Bible books on Artmic? So many cool robots and spaceships! I'd love to see some Gall Force mecha myself. Especially the transforming hoverbike or the transforming personal shuttle, or even the Brontes.