Mr March

On that issue you'll get no argument from me LOL Guess I'm one of the few that kinda liked the cinematography in the new movie. It's not setting any new benchmarks, but it perfectly matched the ebb and flow of the thrill ride that was this movie.

Well, even though the new 2009 film might not be too bright, it was infinitely more entertaining than the past two decades of Trek. Entertainment is supposed to be the point ("As I'm certain that I read that somewhere once") so we can cheer for that In all honesty, the new ship looks like the same size as the old ones, at least to me.

I wasn't really aware of a grander argument about the sizes (though I'm learning fast, LOL), I merely saw the chart in this thread and reacted to what I saw as an error. If you recall, I built a BSG-Macross ship chart some time ago and remembered from that experience that the Battlestar Galactica Re-Imagined was much larger than it appeared on the chart EXO posted here. That's all.

The Battlestar Galactica from the Re-imagined series (which I believe is the schematic used in the picture) is 1,438.64 meters long according to the Battlestar Galactica Wiki. So it'd be over twice the size as shown in the picture. EDIT: According to Ex-Astris Scientia (apparently one of the oldest and most accurate Trek technical sites on the internet), the new Constitution Class ship from Star Trek (2009) is still only 295 meters in length. An in-depth analysis can be found HERE for what it's worth.

This is good to know. I'll make the correction and upload a new VF-19P Excalibur page later today. Thanks Renato

Okay, I've uploaded corrections to the VF-25, VF-171 and Macrosspedia pages. THanks.

I agree that the text is clearly talking about a projectile and not a casing or cartridge. After all, why go through all that description of ultra-high-speed armor-piercing munitions made of gold, super-polymers and super-hard metals if one isn't talking about the projectile itself? It certainly isn't the cartridge/sabot that is penetrating 300mm of GFS-a2 composite Destroid armor I think the rail gun bullets will be like kinetic energy penetrators. I've attached two pictures, one of a kinetic energy penetrator from a tank cannon and a picture of a round used in rail guns. The two projectiles certainly have a very similar size and shape. While the diameter of the Dragunov round might be 55mm, these are big projectiles of more significant length than a bullet. The SSL-9B's clip is certainly very wide and if it holds the ammunition vertically, the projectiles would indeed be very long.

Could do that, but at that point it just seems like adding "Strike Pack" to the text description would be easier.

I don't think plasma is part of this specific weapon, at least not a total conversion anyway. Conversion to plasma would probably have been mentioned before and the gun would most likely be classified as a particle projection weapon if total conversion took place. The plasma would also scatter upon firing and accuracy with it would be nowhere near as good as it's described. Having said that, there would be a certain amount of intense heat involved in the process, so the round itself is probably very hot. The glowing trail could be plasma, or visible gases (like the missiles), coolant, or other ejected materials. I agree, I don't think it's a plasma gun. If it were, it would be called a plasma gun, especially since they have plasma guns in Macross (like the gun Alto used to defeat the Vajra, taken from the dead Zentradi in the power armor). As for the shell itself, I think the official description is just using cartridge as a catch-all for the projectile. I suppose the SSL-9B Dragunov could use cartridged bullets, but I fail to see the point of doing so in an electromagnetic rail gun. One of the main advantages of a rail gun is non-cartridge ammunition and utilizing the effects of kinetic energy to cause damage without the need for explosives. Personally, the SSL-9B doesn't sound like a traditional gun. It appears to operate more like an artillery piece, especially given it's size and function. Since it is a rail gun, the projectile would most likely be similar to a kinetic energy penetrator, like what they use in tanks and mobile guns.

Ah, the SV-51. That should be interesting!

That makes it difficult, considering I don't have any VF-1A Strike line art to color

Collision Course was much better because Encore/Numb rocks (big Jay-Z fan here) Not sure about plasma. What kind of interaction has to happen for it to turn into plasma? I mean, from the description of the round, the thing is obviously designed to be some super-strong projectile. I can't imagine they'd go through all the trouble of polymerizing and super-hardening the round if it was just going to be blown into a super-heated gas with each firing. Well I was writing only in terms of size and weight. The ferromagnetic gold is obviously part of the electromagnetic rail system in the cannon itself. Though I suppose the "super-polymers" and the "super-hard metal" may have other properties of which we aren't aware that could contribute to the density of the round. Point being, you don't build a gun like that and then use it to fire light weight rounds, not if you really want to seize advantage of it's destructive capabilities (which is the reason for building the thing in the first place).

I'd agree. From just the description of the SP-55X 55mm round, and by virtue of the much smaller ammunition load of the SSL-9B Dragunov, I'd say the same diameter size of the round belies a many other significant differences between the GU-11 round and the SP-55X round. Clearly the SP-55X 55mm round weighs a lot more than a standard shell, especially if they are using really dense materials like gold (super polymerized gold cartridge covered in super-hard metal). We also don't know the length or weight of the round. I assume most micro-missile launchers are not heavy weapons, even though they may not be not standard weapons on a given valkyrie. Examples of other non-standard but not heavy weapons could be the grenades on the VF-0S Reactive Armor and VF-1J GBP-1S Armored Valkyrie and the shoulder-mounted laser guns on the VF-11C Protect Armor. Well the term "heavy weapon" is just a generalized term to describe any weapon that possesses more firepower than the standard valkyrie weapons. Now what those weapons are used for specifically is a totally different story. For example, the XS-06 long-range high-piercing-round gun pod and the SSL-9B Dragunov Sniper Rifle are both heavy weapons possessing much more firepower than a standard valkyrie gun pod. But the XS-06 is a rapid-fire, general purpose weapon while the SSL-9B is a semi-automatic, precision strike weapon. It appears that some heavy weapons are part of more elaborate hardware (such as the Mauler RO-X2A high-powered double-action beam cannon pod on the VF-1S Strike Valkyrie) while other heavy weapons can be carried simply as optional hardware easily afixed upon any standard valkyrie (such as the SSL-9B Dragunov Sniper Rifle loaded onto a VF-25G Messiah or a VF-171 Nightmare Plus). Very true. Given the extensive description of the SP-55X round, it's pretty clear it's something much different than the norm. It may be a smaller diameter, but it's likely a much larger round in length and weight. After all, if that huge SSL-9B Dragunov Sniper Rifle can only hold 12+1 rounds while a much smaller GU-11 gun pod can hold 200 rounds, the SP-55X 55mm round must be significantly longer and heavier. At least, I would think so.

Ah, I understand now. I'm not sure if any alphanumeric designations apply. Did they use any alphanumeric designations in Macross 7? The NMCV-25 designation might just be military nomenclature used in tactical displays and not an actual official designation (in as much as the alphanumeric designations might not be included in the official ship name).

Looks like the DYRL colors. I'll add it to the list.

LOL! That's definitely over-thinking it, to the point of a Kevin Smith dialog Although, Superman's "capabilities" ala Smith did make it into a Peter Berg film. I can't wait to see what Berg does with Dune

Spectacular work. I'm very excited to see more. Well done!

It's funny too, because in X-Men and X-Men 2, it's hinted that Magneto and Mystique have a sexual relationship

"Sci-Fi Directors you would love to see mauled"? Is that like, [sarcasm notice] a threat of violence? Because if it is, I endorse this thread[/end of sarcasm notice] Uwe Boll would be my target, if for no other reason than to assure that he won't ruin any franchise I care about with future movie projects Dean Devlin and Roland Emmerich would also be high on the list. No one needs to suffer their films

Oh, the fleets and classes were definitely not planned out well. If they were, we wouldn't need a topic to sort out all the confusing designations. I think they call both ships and fleets as "classes" just as some kind of universal catch-all term. I think the moniker "New Macross Class" is used whenever a Battle Class ship is attached to a fleet to distinguish these fleets from other fleets which may not have a Battle Class or Macross Class ship attached to them. That's the only reason I would imagine they would need a "New Macross Class Fleet" designation when they are already using other fleet numbers and titles. I'm not sure what alphanumeric designations you mean. Regarding the Macross 11, keep in mind that even if the Macross 11 fleet started out as a New Macross Class ship, these colonization fleets obviously can takes years or even decades to travel. In that time, the ships of the fleet can be rebuilt/refitted or they can expand and feature more sections. The Macross 11 could be an example of a New Macross Class ship that, by necessity, expanded into a Island-like fleet. In fact, the New United Nations Spacy may have taken note of the long-term needs affecting the New Macross Class ships and decided to build the Island Cluster Class ships as a response to the needs of Super-Long-Range Emigration Fleets. Perhaps. I think that's exactly how it works. The "New Macross Class Fleet" seems to be a designation that helps distinguish fleets with "Macross" ships (Macross Class or Battle Class) from fleets without Macross ships. Otherwise, I'm not sure I understand the point of the "New Macross Class Fleet", especially when the fleets already have numbers such as "55th Super-Long-Range Emigration Fleet." I'm not really sure how NMCV fits into the whole designation scheme. But if I had to guess, I'd say that NMCV is military nomenclature designed to summarize and quickly identify ships displayed on a tactical holographic. Whenever we see maps and tactical displays in Macross Frontier, we see the ships abbreviated with these terms.

SchizophrenicMC Yeah, the modular nature of the variable fighter weapons appears to make them great for all kinds of missions. The variable fighters themselves are highly versatile and capable of all kinds of varied roles. But I never really examined the weapons in terms of standard vs. heavy armament. It was a fun exercise. edwin3060 Hmmm, I'm not sure I follow. The SSL-9B Dragunov Sniper Rifle uses 55mm ammunition, but it's clearly far more powerful than the 58mm GU-17A gun pod. We're also talking beam weapons, for which the size rating has an unknown meaning since beams weapons do not use physical projectiles. At any rate, if the 57mm beam guns are labeled "anti-ship", we're definitely talking heavy weapon.

That's cool. I never noticed that about the Macross fleets. But I know writers like odd numbers. They sound less artificial than even numbers.

A discussion recently arose on the forums that got me thinking more about variable fighter heavy weapons. Or to be more specific, the topic made me think about those high-firepower valkyrie weapons in Macross which go largely unnoticed because they aren't specifically designated as heavy weapons even though they appear to be heavy weapons in practice. I suppose the problem identifying heavy weapons is that unless they have some spectacular visual effect (like an Itano circus or big beam gun) no one thinks much of them. But Macross has often shown firepower through more conventional means like penetration. The XS-06 long-range high-piercing-round gun pod was shown blasting through a Varauta frigate, the two-part prototype heavy blaster was seen blowing up a Uraga carrier and the The SSL-9B Dragunov sniper rifle was enough to destroy even the most heavily armored enemy, but none of them had particularly spectacular visual effects. So I looked over the statistics of the Macross valkyries and I found a semi-consistent theme. When a heavy weapon is described in the literature, it seems to be designated using terms like high-speed, armor-penetrating, high-powered, high-piercing-round, high-velocity or anti-ship. There are a few exceptions where heavy weapons are not described as such yet they are shown in the animation as very powerful weapons (such as the VF-17 Nightmare gun pod beam adaptor). There is also at least one exception where a high-powered weapon doesn't appear to be a heavy weapon (the VF-22 Sturmvogel II has a "fixed high-powered converging energy cannon"). But for the most part, it seems that the writers do identify most variable fighter heavy weapons with some kind of distinguishing language in the official write-ups. Heavy Weapons, All-eras: large-size anti-ship reaction missiles (mounted on any variable fighter) Heavy Weapons, Space War I-era: Mauler RO-X2A high-powered double-action beam cannon pod (found on the VF-1S Strike Valkyrie) 18 x Erlikon GA-100 Crusher high-speed armor-penetrating projectiles (found on the VF-1J GBP-1S Armored Valkyrie) Heavy Weapons, 2012-2044: Large beam cannons (found on the VF-4 Lightning III) heavy weapon cluster (found on the YF-19, used by Isamu to destroy a Destroid Monster) Heavy Weapons, 2045-2047: XS-06 long-range high-piercing-round gun pod (found on the VF-11C Thunderbolt Protect Armor, used by Kinryu to penetrate and destroy a Varauta Vanguard Frigate) gun pod beam adapter (found on the VF-17S Nightmare, used by Gamlin to repeatedly shoot down Gavil's fighter/bomber in one shot) two-part prototype heavy blaster (found on the Fz-109F Elgerzorene, used by Gigile to destroy a Uraga Class Escort Battle Carrier) Heavy Weapons, 2048-2059: SSL-9B Dragunov Electromagnetic Rail Anti-Armor Sniper Rifle with ultra-high-speed armor-piercing ammunition (found on the VF-25G Messiah) Ohto/Sentinel 57mm anti-warship anti-air rapid-fire swiveling beam turrets (found on the VF-25S APS-25A/MF25 Armored Messiah) 30 x 200mm anti-armor high-initial-velocity rockets (found on the VF-25S APS-25A/MF25 Armored Messiah) heavy quantum beam gun (found on the VF-171EX Nightmare Plus) BGP-01β 55mm heavy quantum reaction beam gun pod / beam grenade (found on the VF-27 Lucifer) I think these are supposed to be the big guns for the valkyries, used against large and heavily armored targets or even against warships. What do you think?

Much in the same theme as the FAQ-like "Height of the Zentradi/Meltrandi" thread, I thought it would be helpful for us to have a thread dedicated to another confusing topic about fleet names and designations. I'm rather confused on the subject and thought it best to collect everything known into one thread that can be easily referenced and bookmarked. Discussion began in the tech thread here: fleet name discussion in the tech thread What follows below is our current understanding of the fleets, taken from the Macross Compendium and fan translations. Note that this is an ongoing discussion and that some assumptions might change as more information is forthcoming. The Fleet designations are as follows: Macross Class Emigration Fleet Megaroad Class Emigration Fleet Large-Scale Emigration Fleet New Macross Class Emigration Fleet Super-Long-Range Emigration Fleet A given fleet can be 1, 2 or up to three of the terms. For example, the Macross Frontier Fleet is a Large-Scale Emigration Fleet (number unknown), the 25th New Macross Class Emigration Fleet and the 55th Super-Long-Range Emigration Fleet. As an aside to the big colony fleets, there are also: Large-Scale Research Fleets, like the 117th fleet that fell to the Vajra in Macross Frontier Close-Range Emigration (Compendium calls these "Colonization") Fleets, which colonize within 100 light years of the Solar System Lastly, there are the ship classes: Macross Class, Super Dimension Fortress Megaroad Class Super-Long Range Colonization Ship New Macross Class which = Battle Class Stealth Space Attack Carrier + City Class Ship (such as City 7) + Einstein Research Experimental Ship, Hollywood Amusement Ship, Riviera Resort Ship, Sunnyflower Agricultural Ship, Three Star Factory Ship, West Point Class Macro-Training Base Ship (and perhaps one or more Mark Twain VII Resort Ships) Island Cluster Class which = Battle Class Stealth Space Attack Carrier + Island Class Ships (such as Island 1) + Environment ship (such as Island 3) It appears only 13 New Macross Class ships (Battle + City + Specialty Fleet Ships) were built in the 2030s and then production ceased sometime afterward. The Island Cluster Class ships (Battle + Islands + Environment Ships) began production in the 2040s and continue until at least the time of Macross Frontier (2059). The Macross Galaxy Fleet is the 9th Large-Scale Emigration Fleet, the 21st New Macross Class Emigration Fleet and the 51st Super-Long-Range Emigration Fleet. We know it has a Battle Class ship, but we don't know what the colony ship is called. It has been designated as "Mainland" in dialog, but nothing else. It is unknown whether the colony ship is it's own class or a City/Island class which turned into something else due to the continued technological evolution of the Macross Galaxy civilization.

Okay, I want to collect what I've read so far and make sure I have it right. So there are three different fleet designations: Large-Scale Emigration Fleet New Macross Class Emigration Fleet Super-Long-Range Emigration Fleet A given fleet can be 1, 2 or all 3 of these designations. Is that correct? As an aside to the big colony fleets, there are also: Large-Scale Research Fleets, like the 117th fleet that fell to the Vajra in Macross Frontier Close-Range Colonization Fleets, which colonize within 100 light years of the Solar System Lastly, there are the ship classes: Macross Class, Super Dimension Fortress Megaroad Class Super-Long Range Colonization Ship New Macross Class which = Battle Class Stealth Space Attack Carrier + City Class Ship (such as City 7) Island Cluster Class which = Battle Class Stealth Space Attack Carrier + Island Class Ships (such as Island 1 + others) The New Macross Class ships (Battle + City) only amounted to 13 ships. The Island Cluster Class ships (Battle + Islands) are what where made later and the New Macross Class ships are no longer made. Is all that correct? If it is, that's not so bad now. It is beginning to make sense.