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Macross World Podcast - feedback & comments

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Episode 2 has been reposted. Get it HERE (also added to the first post of this thread).

This brings the cast back up-to-date and Episode 4 was recorded (drunkenly) yesterday so I should have it edited next weekend.

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Fixed your download link, plus I added links to the other episodes.

By the way, listening to the first couple of minutes of episode 2 again, regarding "GUVAVA" -- it seems that Central Anime got that romanization from the official Macross 7 Laserdisc inserts. So there you go.

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Save: "I'm not getting the Sound Booster!"

In the end, he got the Sound Booster but not the valk to put it on. :wacko:

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photo01.jpg

Aw are you guys really afraid of Chie :3

she looks harmless

I really enjoyed all the stories of what goes on at Macross concerts.

The part about Megumi Nakajim crying after singing the song Yoko Kanno wrote for her was just proof of life imitating the moe arts.

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Oh man... I think Gubaba is talking about the same Los Angeles Times magazine that I clipped and pinned to my wall. I think the magazine was called Home Magazine and there was a lineup of robots. One of the robots beside the valkyrie was Golion. Voltron was already airing, this was before Robotech and I already had my bootleg VF-1J with the gundam gun.

I've been looking for that article forever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LluZ7tWxsn0#t=272s

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Oh man... I think Gubaba is talking about the same Los Angeles Times magazine that I clipped and pinned to my wall. I think the magazine was called Home Magazine and there was a lineup of robots. One of the robots beside the valkyrie was Golion. Voltron was already airing, this was before Robotech and I already had my bootleg VF-1J with the gundam gun.

I've been looking for that article forever.

Yeah, it's the same.

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Aaaaaand..... Episode 4 is UP! Get it HERE!

Theres some sound quality issues Im still trying to resolve in regards to imported music and how to handle Gubaba when he gets drunk, but I think we are slowly starting to get the hang of this thang!

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Aaaaaand..... Episode 4 is UP! Get it HERE!

Theres some sound quality issues Im still trying to resolve in regards to imported music and how to handle Gubaba when he gets drunk, but I think we are slowly starting to get the hang of this thang!

Threaten to take away his smokes or Chie CD's

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Another great podcast fellas...a few things.

-Did Adrian drink more than the rest of you?

-When does Renato's Seinfeld podcast start?

-BTW. So THAT's where all the YF-29's are. -_-

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Listening to episode 4 now. It wasn't until Howard pronounced his handle that I got what it stood for! :rolleyes:

Incidentally, after episode 3, I'm glad you guys are liking the new MW Home Page. EXO and I knew it was long overdue and we really enjoyed working on it, and rolling it out to everyone. Glad you guys are contributing and keep 'em coming!

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Thanks for the coverage of the 30th Anniversary event, guys.

I really wish I could have gone to something like that; it's hard sometimes to view myself as a fan of the "whole" of Macross, as part of a united fandom group kind of thing, since I don't really like anything between SDFM and the Frontier movies, but the 30th Anniversary thing would have done the trick, 'least for a little while.

The comment about mass-murderer Shammy cracked me up.

I know *I* wouldn't be able to decide between a Sheryl or Minmay confection--until they mentioned the giant "Deculture" ice cream, which from the sound of it I wouldn't be able to eat in full, but come on!

[Once again, the ubiquitousness of "Deculture" almost makes me regret irrationally disliking it as a new Zentradi catchphrase...almost.]

The idea of a Klan Klang head staring out from a wall sounds pretty disturbing.

Just for the record, guys, my laughter regarding a Macross musical was meant to express that I thought the idea was... "hilariously wonderful". A Macross musical is a *very* appropriate idea for the franchise, but it's not going to be enjoyable on anything but the ironic/humorous level, which is okay because absurdity is part of Macross to begin with.

Just like the rest of you guys, my only thought would be to have a new Macross series made, not a remake or a revisiting of a previously-established setting. "Retiring" Macross upon the retirement of Kawamori probably won't happen, but in terms of artistic principle, it's something I could see myself supporting.

I still would want the soft vinyl Britai, but I've pretty much given up on it ever being produced. Shame, because that's what I would have wanted for the 30th Anniversary--decent merchandise of my favourite SDFM characters, and I know Britai would be the most likely one to have it happen.

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I agree that Macross shouldn't go on without Kawamori... and yes that was me in the toys section that said it can go on with someone else... I was joking. But it seems like a Macross series without Kawamori will be treated like Macross 2. Most of my interest with new Macross lines are mostly for newer valks and keeping the original relevant anyway. I enjoy parts of the sequels, but not as wholly as the the primary series.

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But it seems like a Macross series without Kawamori will be treated like Macross 2. Most of my interest with new Macross lines are mostly for newer valks and keeping the original relevant anyway.

I think that's mostly a minority opinion, though. For better or worse, the bulk of Macross fandom is the high-school/college crowd now, and they want BL/loli/idol/romance stuff, with the mecha taking a backseat to the fashion, even. They're still keeping the legacy of the old shows alive with all the events that we talked about of course, but at the same time, looking into the future, I don't see that many people caring if Kawamori goes or stays, except for maybe us, the vocal minority.

The problem with Macross 2 was that it wasn't very good, not that Kawamori was not involved. If someone with a totally different concept or vision had taken the helm, maybe there would have been more fans of it. Conversely, lots of people hated Orguss 02, but many do prefer it over the original. Both of those opinions stem from the fact that Fumihiko Takayama took the series in a completely different direction. In the case of Macross, that is exactly what Kawamori has been doing each and every time, so having someone else on board would again simply shift things around...

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Another great podcast fellas...a few things.

-Did Adrian drink more than the rest of you?

-When does Renato's Seinfeld podcast start?

-BTW. So THAT's where all the YF-29's are. -_-

So nice to hear, THANKS!

- I was the most sober out of the bunch. I had just returned from a WELL NEEDED three day holiday the night before and exhausted. The one beer I drank did me in an hour into the podcast; hence the slurring when speaking.

- Oh GOD NO!!!!

- Product for a small online shop I run known as Tokyo-Hunter.com

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IT'S COMING.

Yokai Attack's Matt Alt.

Otaku Space's Patrick W. Galbraith

A bottle of Wild Turkey. A 1/55 VF-1A. And 20 or so beers.

Prepare yourselves for the CHAOS.....f(^^;)

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IT'S COMING.

Yokai Attack's Matt Alt.

Otaku Space's Patrick W. Galbraith

A bottle of Wild Turkey. A 1/55 VF-1A. And 20 or so beers.

Prepare yourselves for the CHAOS.....f(^^ ;)

A hint as to what our evening was like...

post-939-0-47327900-1342525832_thumb.jpg

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I'm downloading these now but I should point out a typo in the url to download the second half. It's missing the "h" in http. People might be right clicking to no avail.

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I'm downloading these now but I should point out a typo in the url to download the second half. It's missing the "h" in http. People might be right clicking to no avail.

Fixed, thanks.

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The sheer chaos of it all!!! Listen at your own risk!

I'm not even sure I can bring MYSELF to listen...

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A long podcast deserves a long reply post. Away!

Thoughts:

--Honestly, I still can't wrap my head around the notion that Macross, whether the first series or the entire franchise, is a purely masculine media franchise that would attract men and boys only. The role of music over guns, the love triangles, and of making peace with enemies, strike me as an arguably "feminine" qualities that make Macross as a whole into a franchise that I thought would have more female fans for it.

I mean, I'm a girl and I like Macross, but it's exactly because of those girly aspects that I did. For an example, I'm a Zentradi fan (that Richard keeps mentioning on whatever podcast he's on, for some reason), but only because of the discovery of culture storyline. I don't view the Zentradi as these cool badass warriors, but slaves discovering there's something better to life.

S'true I like mecha, but only as "works of art", just as aesthetic things to look at.

--Has Macross changed, as a media franchise? I haven't seen the Macross series unfold in real time, but my objective answer is that Macross has changed because each series needs to adapt to whatever's currently popular in anime. The art style, the character types, and all that's influenced by which era Macross was made in, so each work looks and "feels" different, and so does the mass-media presentation of it.

--I don't get the hatred of Alto. Bishounen have been a part of Macross since Max Jenius, and the only difference is that Alto is also a professional cross-dresser. But a major plot point is that he's giving up the onnagata lifestyle and is indeed resentful of it, and only uses it as a tool rather than a fetish, so I'm surprised the audience is still put off. Plus, as I said, Macross isn't a super-manly franchise anyway. It's not like Alto showed up in the middle of a Super Robot show or something.

--I don't watch much newer anime, so I can't comment on the volume of moe stuff. Moe as a "thing" disturbs me a bit, because from one I've seen, I'm inclined to agree with every negative criticism about it, and not try to respin it back to its original, neutral definition, or as something that's mostly coming from platonic adoration. It just creeps me out.

--I saw Macross 7 piece by piece, in about 2009. And...jeez, I did not like it. I saw it all the way through, and a few of the OVAs, and...nope. No. I understand what the series was trying to do, what it was trying to say, and usually I'm on board with those sorts of things. But I didn't like Basara, I didn't like the Protodevlin, the scientific explanation for the effect of music, a lot of the plot structure, the animation style, etc. I sometimes wish I enjoyed the non-SDFM Macross stuff more, but not in the case of Macross 7. It was just this instant oil and water thing.

For the record, I love the way that music was used in SDFM, but its extension in Macross 7 had the opposite reaction. The fact that Basara is so unwavering, so undaunted, is also exactly what bothers me about him. I prefer characters who grow and change, who start out in a lower position and rise higher, and who don't seem to have too much Protagonist Power. It's not that he's a pacifist, because I'm not into that ra-ra military aspect of Macross, and it's not that I don't know protagonists have to be special. I don't dislike the themes he represents, just how he's portrayed.

--...I watched Macross 7 for Exsedol; no lie. I prefer the original protrayal of the character by a huge margin, though, and this was really a silly reason to watch Macross 7 all the way through. I wish I cared about the actual active characters instead, but what can ya do?

I also have to say that though Max and Milia's portrayal isn't as *bad* as Exsedol's, I just didn't find it appealing.

The problem with Milia is not so much that she's "domesticated", which is perfectly cool, but the fact that she's subject to so many, "Older women, amirite?" jokes that really, really get on my nerves. They look especially weird when her appearance is otherwise unchanging.

Milia buying into the Japanese tradition of omiai was also just really weird. I can picture her being a matchmaker, but speciically going for that very foreign tradition when she's not Japanese and not an earth-made-type human is odd.

I thought Max was a bit of a dull character, despite still having his battle prowess. I think that if you watch Macross 7 for the older characters it's harder to get by, and it's better to have everything add up as likeable. I eventually would have watched 7 eventually either way, talking vegetable or not.

--Randomly, I found Roy Fokker unappealing, too. It's not that I *don't* like masculine characters, but that kind of pushy loudness usually doesn't appeal to me. His advice to Hikaru in DYRL was the worst bit, and everything besides that was just kind of mildly annoying.

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Most of the time I can sit through these podcasts, and enjoy myself in listening to them, but this one was, well, how should I put it, kinda pointless. Some of it was funny, but it was like sitting at a pub, listening to a bunch of guys talk about random stuff. I heard about 45 minutes of it, and that was about all I could go through. Even the first several discussions are used with points that are odd at best. It sounded like a great time, just didn't translate well as a podcast show.

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Pterobat - some great comments there! Thanks for taking the time out to post them!

--Honestly, I still can't wrap my head around the notion that Macross, whether the first series or the entire franchise, is a purely masculine media franchise that would attract men and boys only. The role of music over guns, the love triangles, and of making peace with enemies, strike me as an arguably "feminine" qualities that make Macross as a whole into a franchise that I thought would have more female fans for it.

I mean, I'm a girl and I like Macross, but it's exactly because of those girly aspects that I did. For an example, I'm a Zentradi fan (that Richard keeps mentioning on whatever podcast he's on, for some reason), but only because of the discovery of culture storyline. I don't view the Zentradi as these cool badass warriors, but slaves discovering there's something better to life.

S'true I like mecha, but only as "works of art", just as aesthetic things to look at.

I think you've touched on an important point in a roundabout way - the mecha. This cast was a room full of male mecha fans, which is therefore where a lot of the participants experience and ways of identifying and interacting with the franchise lies.

I have a question though - as a non-Japanese Macross fan, what was your experience with the fandom back when you first got into it? Did you find it to be mostly male in its makeup?

--Has Macross changed, as a media franchise? I haven't seen the Macross series unfold in real time, but my objective answer is that Macross has changed because each series needs to adapt to whatever's currently popular in anime. The art style, the character types, and all that's influenced by which era Macross was made in, so each work looks and "feels" different, and so does the mass-media presentation of it.

The artstyle and presentation I'll definately agree with you on. Thematicaly though, has it really? I mean, isnt each iteration just a re-balancing of those 3 core elements of love triangle, music, and transformable fighter jets?

--I don't get the hatred of Alto. Bishounen have been a part of Macross since Max Jenius, and the only difference is that Alto is also a professional cross-dresser. But a major plot point is that he's giving up the onnagata lifestyle and is indeed resentful of it, and only uses it as a tool rather than a fetish, so I'm surprised the audience is still put off. Plus, as I said, Macross isn't a super-manly franchise anyway. It's not like Alto showed up in the middle of a Super Robot show or something.

I think that the problem for long-term fans (and keep in mind that our guests werent as well versed in Frontier as they could have been) is that in the tv series of Frontier Alto is pretty much a non-entity as a protagonist. He's just there. he doesnt do all that much AS a protagonist (although he definately has a character arc). Compared to someone like Basara, Alto just seems a little meh (then again, who wouldnt?). Even compared to Hikaru, who wasnt exactly the most gung-ho, pro-active kinda guy, Alto seems bland. He is also a bit of a fake-out since the real main characters are unquestionably Sheryl and Ranka.

The problem with Milia is not so much that she's "domesticated", which is perfectly cool, but the fact that she's subject to so many, "Older women, amirite?" jokes that really, really get on my nerves. They look especially weird when her appearance is otherwise unchanging.

Milia buying into the Japanese tradition of omiai was also just really weird. I can picture her being a matchmaker, but speciically going for that very foreign tradition when she's not Japanese and not an earth-made-type human is odd.

The older women comments are just as much a part of the influence of Japanese culture on Milia as omiai is imo. 90's Japan was a place where the term 'Christmas Cake' was still very much used publicly by the media in regards to women - after 25 no one wants you and the only way you will move off the shelf is if you are heavily discounted. Compared to this mindset I think that Milia was positively empowered and forward-thinking for the time.

Most of the time I can sit through these podcasts, and enjoy myself in listening to them, but this one was, well, how should I put it, kinda pointless. Some of it was funny, but it was like sitting at a pub, listening to a bunch of guys talk about random stuff. I heard about 45 minutes of it, and that was about all I could go through. Even the first several discussions are used with points that are odd at best. It sounded like a great time, just didn't translate well as a podcast show.

Sorry you feel this way because the feel of a conversation at a pub is exactly what we were going for and is pretty much exactly what we got. It's not something I'd want to do every podcast, but given the wide spectrum of backgrounds that the participants came from, I knew it was going to be impossible to have a single unified (sober) discussion. That's what bringing Matt Alt into a podcast does - it adds a bit of anarchy. He really is like the Joker when it comes to having a discussion - you never know whether he is going to suddenly bring up Crusher Joe or whether he intends to blow up a hospital. Or just randomly yell SEX! But never, ever catch a ferry with the guy.

In all seriousness though, getting Matt and Patrick on was a huge deal imo. I frequently read Patricks stuff in academic publications and I'm more accustomed to seeing Matt on TV than in person (I almost appeared in a movie with him once but unfortunately other factors intervened). Both are somewhat legends in the realm of anime culture/studies. Granted, this didnt make for the best MACROSS podcast, but it did make for a fun listen imo.

Future episodes will be more structured, although my general policy when it comes to podcasts (both this one and the Japanese videogame one I used to do) is that we will never ever follow a 100% set structure on a topic that anyone can learn about by looking it up online. Thats something that any fanboi with a skype connection can do and tends to result in podcasts that are devoid of spontaneity, personality or fun imo (and theres a billion out there just like that!) . It's sort of like the difference between playing a game online compared to playing a game with friends on the same couch - its the couch that tends to result in the most fun, unusual discoveries, and fond memories.

Having said this, we DID cover some more serious stuff this episode - did you look at the time stamps? I recommend giving the second half of part 2 a try - we talk about recent news and give some impressions from the theatrical screening of DYRL. These things are normally put at the beginning of the cast for people who just want the facts/more serious stuff but (as explained in the cast) had to be left at the end of this cast due to the chaos that was Matt and Patrick (it took every spare minute I had for three weeks to work the recording into something more...listenable, lol

Personally though, I thought that Patricks 'Ultimate Idol' theory was a pretty interesting take on several of the Macross characters. :)

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Pterobat - some great comments there! Thanks for taking the time out to post them!

Thank you!

I think you've touched on an important point in a roundabout way - the mecha. This cast was a room full of male mecha fans, which is therefore where a lot of the participants experience and ways of identifying and interacting with the franchise lies.

I have a question though - as a non-Japanese Macross fan, what was your experience with the fandom back when you first got into it? Did you find it to be mostly male in its makeup?

Actually, I was referring to the fandom in general in my whole comment; I thought that was what you guys were discussing, too. I know the podcast crew were all dudes, having listened to SpeakerPodcast from the start.

I've been in Macross fandom for about three years, and only started posting here recently because, at least from what I've seen at MW and AnimeSuki, the fandom just has different "style" than what I'm like or what I'm used to. I'm more interested in discussing characters than mecha, and I have a lot of hang-ups that might be considered weird, but not for most other fandoms. I tend to think this is the result of a "male" way of doing fandom, and usually assume almost all the other posters are dudes. It's never really been different throughout my experience with Macross fandom.

The artstyle and presentation I'll definately agree with you on. Thematicaly though, has it really? I mean, isnt each iteration just a re-balancing of those 3 core elements of love triangle, music, and transformable fighter jets?

Yeah. I didn't think it needed to be said, but the thematic core of Macross is still very consistent, it's just that the changes in the anime industry are reflected in the franchise, so that it does feel like it changed. I watched all the series in a short amount of time, and it felt that way to me--that these are shows in the same media franchise, but don't quite fit seamlessly with each other because they were made in different eras.

I think that the problem for long-term fans (and keep in mind that our guests werent as well versed in Frontier as they could have been) is that in the tv series of Frontier Alto is pretty much a non-entity as a protagonist. He's just there. he doesnt do all that much AS a protagonist (although he definately has a character arc). Compared to someone like Basara, Alto just seems a little meh (then again, who wouldnt?). Even compared to Hikaru, who wasnt exactly the most gung-ho, pro-active kinda guy, Alto seems bland. He is also a bit of a fake-out since the real main characters are unquestionably Sheryl and Ranka.

I'll concede that I like Alto as an idea more than I like him as a character. His backstory is a cool and very Macross-y thing to have (breaking away from previous constraints and all), but so little of him was memorable. Sheryl and Ranka were far more defined as characters.

However, dislike of Alto goes beyond not finding him an effective character. It's about his failure to conform to gender roles and a standard of "manliness" that is apparently expected of mecha characters, which would be grating at the best of times, but when Alto actively rejects the onnagata role and just uses it as an occasional tool, it comes out looking even more silly. It all sounds like anything that smacks of the feminine or appealing to female viewers is this horrible mutant monstrosity.

The older women comments are just as much a part of the influence of Japanese culture on Milia as omiai is imo. 90's Japan was a place where the term 'Christmas Cake' was still very much used publicly by the media in regards to women - after 25 no one wants you and the only way you will move off the shelf is if you are heavily discounted. Compared to this mindset I think that Milia was positively empowered and forward-thinking for the time.

I'm aware of the horrible Christmas cake thing, and it pops up a lot in anime, but even if the handling of the character is a consequence of the society that created her, it doesn't make it entertaining or funny. I'm not saying Milia can't be a comical character, because she can be, and it can work, but it helps if it comes from the character, not just an arbitrary stereotype stuck onto her.

For the record, I love unstructured, bantering podcasts like this.

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Wow, that "Oniichan, dameee!!" thing really doesn't get annoying...

I can't believe the "tape" cut out right at the "Lieutenant K. Warmaker" part... I remember that morphing into "Sexmaker" at one point...

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It took me two days, but I finally made it to the end of this thing. Wow.... I don't even remember talking about half the stuff in there!

Pterobat -- I gave it some thought and I finally see what you mean by the way the Zentradi completely change in the sequels... Especially in Macross Frontier, where they just become idol fanboys. And this is another of the aspects which I think is difficult to grasp for outside audiences who don't really know much about either anime or Japanese idol culture. Yet in the original, the context of the show positions the Zentradi as warlike beings with no concept of culture, so they freak out when they are exposed to a kiss, music, or other "cultural" activities. There is little pre-requisite knowledge of Japan that one needs to bring to the table to decode these aspects of the show, if at all. That is what I think has "changed" -- the aspect of accessibility.

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Hey don't be too down on Mari Okada. She makes shows were male characters are emasculated and adult women run around murdering people left and right like in Tatakau Shisho.

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It took me two days, but I finally made it to the end of this thing. Wow.... I don't even remember talking about half the stuff in there!

Pterobat -- I gave it some thought and I finally see what you mean by the way the Zentradi completely change in the sequels... Especially in Macross Frontier, where they just become idol fanboys. And this is another of the aspects which I think is difficult to grasp for outside audiences who don't really know much about either anime or Japanese idol culture. Yet in the original, the context of the show positions the Zentradi as warlike beings with no concept of culture, so they freak out when they are exposed to a kiss, music, or other "cultural" activities. There is little pre-requisite knowledge of Japan that one needs to bring to the table to decode these aspects of the show, if at all. That is what I think has "changed" -- the aspect of accessibility.

Yeah...I ask what the point is of acting like otakuism is part of the Zentradi Y chromosome because that just plain doesn't make sense. I tended to chalk it up to laziness: of going back to what's been done before, even if the fictional society has moved forward.

I never thought of it as being a result of Macross' style becoming more insular and dependent on in-jokes and references to the original series, but that makes sense, especially from what I've heard about the way the anime market in Japan has been going, concentrating on a smaller and smaller otaku niche.

Most of the references to earlier Macross in Frontier I can imagine going down easily to audiences not familiar with it, but the "Male Zentradi are otaku" stuff might be even weirder to those who don't even know what it's supposed to be a callback to.

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I don't recall the "Zentradi men act like otaku thing" happening so much that it's become overdone. Outside of the original series the next big Zentradi fangasm I can think of was in Fleet of the Strongest Women so that's totally gender equality :3

And honestly I think we sometimes forget the age of the original series. If we're going decades between Zentradi otaku freak outs I think we're doing better than say the Gundam series and its love of masked men.

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Speaking of Gundam, I would agree with one of the points you made about art imitating life. Gundam AGE is failing in Japan because Sunrise and Bandai didn't do their market research before the show aired and when the ratings started tanking for their target audience (pre-teen boys) they did a survey and found out, guess what? Pre-teen boys don't care much for anime about wars and space colonies and such. At least that's what i read.

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Char clones are equally impossible, but the difference is I don't care about Char. :p

"FoSTW" works because they were uncultured Zentradi, so it makes sense for them to act that way. I was thinking more about "Fastest Delivery", and the way that they all act like they've never seen a human being before..it just makes no sense. Even if they're in a remote outpost, and blah blah blah.

Richard Bilra is more of a grey area: I don't mind his having a reverence for Minmay, but when a search for Minmay is his entire motivation, it's a little disappointing.

Anyway, it ties to the larger issue I have, which is that the Zentradi aren't given as much opportunity to expand their array of character types. It's not about quantity so much as there is little to counterbalance it, and using it makes no sense beyond uncultured Zentradi.

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Forgive me since this is probably sacrilege in this forum but... In the photo accompanying the SpeakerPODcast Episode 5 – We got M.ALTed! post, what is the name of that toy that Matt Alt is holding? The light blue, with brown and red accents? I had a 3" or 4" version as a kid, loved it, but never knew what series it was from. It always seemed to be able to transform as well but was never able to completely figure that our either. I'd love to be able to find one of those to have today. -thanks!

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