GU-11 Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 (edited) Hi all! Me again. After several attempts at trying to hand paint some scrap model kits indoors, I discovered that I either suck at hand-painting [very likely], or Tamiya paints are a nightmare to use when not airbrushed [well-documented]. Or both. The latter seems to be true, as almost all forums I visited said Tamiya is great for airbrushing, but horrible for hand-brushing. I tried thinning the stuff with Magiclean, FFP, even its own brand of acrylic thinner, using different ratios, but there were still visible brush strokes. Sadly, it's all I can easily get my hands on locally. Either way, I'm raising the white flag on hand painting and thinking about investing on an airbrush. I could go back to spray cans, but then all those acrylic paints I bought would go to waste. I've only got certain options here as far as airbrushes go, due to location and budget. Tamiya's Spray Works line is available: http://www.tamiya.co..._revo/index.htm http://www.tamiya.co...rush3/index.htm http://www.tamiya.co...ushII/index.htm http://www.hlj.com/product/TAM74520 And these are from my local hobby store: http://www.xl-shop.c...Id=MYHB-T12-720 http://www.xl-shop.c...Id=MYHB_T11-730 Also, can anyone give me some advice on exhaust fans/spray booths? This one from Tamiya supposedly has 4 filters and allows you to spray indoors without a mask. I have a hard time finding respirators locally for some reason, and this might be the answer to my problems. There's also a single fan version. This one's from my local hobby store, but would it suffice? All in all, I don't really plan on doing any super-fine, professional painting; mostly just painting Gunpla, mecha model kits or painting and touching up Transformers. Maybe some weathering, and at most, learn to pre/post shade. Thanks in advance for any advice. Edited April 22, 2012 by GU-11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benson13 Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 I'm also interested in hearing about this. Thanks GU-11 for bringing this up. I just got four models in the mail today and may be airbrushing or spray painting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefuemon Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 I'm using the Spray-work REVO with the HG III brush, and I really like them. Been using that set up for close to 3 years now, and I've never had any troubles with it. All the models I've posted recently have been painted using that, including cammo patterns. The compressor is very quiet, and puts out a very steady stream of air. One word of note, though; if you go with a Tamiya compressor, you'll want to go with a Tamiya airbrush. Any other airbrush, and you're going to need to find after-market adapters. I also use the Spray booth. However, I still use the respirator with it, just to be safe. I do notice that there's very little fume smell left in the room after I paint using it, though. I also only use it in the winter time. When the weathers nice, just opening up all the windows is fine. My recommendation, get them. You won't be disappointed. Oh, one bad point, I don't know if they have a water trap available or not. When it's humid and you're trying to paint, you'll need one. That's why on rainy days, I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronocidal Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Heh.. I bought an airbrush and compressor quite a while back, and still haven't touched it. I should one of these days, but I love hand painting so much... As far as brushing goes though.. I'm not sure any acrylics brush well over large areas, due to the nature of how they cure. When I paint with them, they tend to dry so quickly, that a second stroke will actually scrape up the paint you just laid down. The best success I've had requires you to be very patient, laying down many individual coats over a long period of time, usually thinned with quite a bit of water. I'll let the water carry the paint, then when it evaporates, it leaves a thin coat. It's probably not the best method, but it's what I did for a lot of that VF-25 I painted by hand. One note... black generally is really easy to paint with, as are most darker grays. Whites, light grays, and brighter colors though might give you nightmares. Red is especially problematic. Honestly.. I think for hand brushing, oil-based enamels have always worked better. They're thicker, stick to the plastic better, and smooth out easily. They're just a pain to clean up, and it's much harder to fix any mistakes you make. The ability to take a wet toothpick and scrape away any mistakes is what made me pick up so many acrylics in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benson13 Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 I'll have to try the wet toothpick trick next time I screw something up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electric indigo Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 My experiences: Absolutely go for airbrushing, it will open a new dimension in modeling to you. Invest in a good compresor (with water trap) rather than a fancy airbrush. I have two high-end double acion ABs from my airbrush illustration era, and have almost never used them for my model work. My workhorse is a Badger 350 (about 40$), easy handling & cleaning and unbreakable. Check out my models here, all painted with the badger and Tamyia acrylics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/romansland/collections/72157628084123703/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GU-11 Posted April 22, 2012 Author Share Posted April 22, 2012 I'm using the Spray-work REVO with the HG III brush, and I really like them. Been using that set up for close to 3 years now, and I've never had any troubles with it. All the models I've posted recently have been painted using that, including cammo patterns. The compressor is very quiet, and puts out a very steady stream of air. One word of note, though; if you go with a Tamiya compressor, you'll want to go with a Tamiya airbrush. Any other airbrush, and you're going to need to find after-market adapters. I also use the Spray booth. However, I still use the respirator with it, just to be safe. I do notice that there's very little fume smell left in the room after I paint using it, though. I also only use it in the winter time. When the weathers nice, just opening up all the windows is fine. My recommendation, get them. You won't be disappointed. Oh, one bad point, I don't know if they have a water trap available or not. When it's humid and you're trying to paint, you'll need one. That's why on rainy days, I don't. Thanks for the recommendations, Jefuemon! I'm very glad to hear good comments on the Tamiya stuff. They're by far the most easily available ones where I'm at, and they look pretty hassle free. Even if I could afford those super-sophisticated ones with the controllable psi's and whatnot, I wouldn't know how to get the thing working. About the Spray Work Revo compressor, there's a set that comes with a double-action trigger-type airbrush. Is that any good? Just by looking at it, the trigger-type looks more comfortable and user-friendly than the standard type. Whoa, about this water trap thing; all this while I thought just spraying indoors is enough to eliminate or at least minimize the humidity. The online catalog didn't mention anything about a water trap. If a compressor doesn't have a water trap, if I paint after it rains, would it be all right? Or would I have to wait for one or two days of sunny weather like when I paint outside? Also, how does the Tamiya basic compressor set measure up to the REVO? It's much cheaper; honestly, I'm not looking to do any super-sophisticated stuff with it--just spraying a smooth, even coat onto model kits. I usually take shortcuts when weathering stuff, anyway, using weathering sets and other "cheapo" techniques gleaned from online tutorials. Heh.. I bought an airbrush and compressor quite a while back, and still haven't touched it. I should one of these days, but I love hand painting so much... As far as brushing goes though.. I'm not sure any acrylics brush well over large areas, due to the nature of how they cure. When I paint with them, they tend to dry so quickly, that a second stroke will actually scrape up the paint you just laid down. The best success I've had requires you to be very patient, laying down many individual coats over a long period of time, usually thinned with quite a bit of water. I'll let the water carry the paint, then when it evaporates, it leaves a thin coat. It's probably not the best method, but it's what I did for a lot of that VF-25 I painted by hand. One note... black generally is really easy to paint with, as are most darker grays. Whites, light grays, and brighter colors though might give you nightmares. Red is especially problematic. Honestly.. I think for hand brushing, oil-based enamels have always worked better. They're thicker, stick to the plastic better, and smooth out easily. They're just a pain to clean up, and it's much harder to fix any mistakes you make. The ability to take a wet toothpick and scrape away any mistakes is what made me pick up so many acrylics in the first place. I've only tried Tamiya acrylic German gray on a piece of scrap plastic, and it was something of a nightmare. I've tried thinning it to a 1:1 ratio with windex (Kao Glass Magiclean, actually) and even Future Floor Polish, and it still left brush strokes. That said, I WAS using a rather small brush to paint a pretty wide area. My attempts with Tamiya's acrylic thinner made the earlier coat of paint lift when I applied the second one--I've heard you need at least 24 hours when thinning with Tamiya's thinner between coats. At least the Magiclean allowed me to re-coat after just a few minutes...or could that be why I'm getting brush strokes? Could the paint be evaporating too fast? My experiences: Absolutely go for airbrushing, it will open a new dimension in modeling to you. Invest in a good compresor (with water trap) rather than a fancy airbrush. I have two high-end double acion ABs from my airbrush illustration era, and have almost never used them for my model work. My workhorse is a Badger 350 (about 40$), easy handling & cleaning and unbreakable. Check out my models here, all painted with the badger and Tamyia acrylics: http://www.flickr.co...57628084123703/ Very impressive kits, Electric Indigo! I've always wanted a Gally/Alita figure, but resin kits are way out of my league. Either way, now that I'm kneedeep in Tamiya paints with no way of getting good results hand painting, I'll have to get an air brush whether I like it or not. BTW, I've heard that you can get Badger airbrushes from Tamiya. I checked the model you mention on Tamiya's online shop, and it doesn't seem to be compatible with their line of compressors. What compressor do you pair it with? Tamiya compressors are the only ones I think I can easily find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefuemon Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Figured on anything yet, GU-11? I was thinking about you while painting my 1/350 scale Battleship Musashi for about 90 minutes straight today. Damn, it's a big kit! But, the brush and compressor worked just fine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GU-11 Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 (edited) Thanks for asking, Jefuemon. I settled for the Tamiya basic air compressor w/ airbrush. While I initially wanted to get the Revo you recommended, the price is a little too steep if I also buy the spray booth at the same time (and I HAVE to get a spray booth, since I can't find a respirator). I read through some reviews, and it seems the basic compressor does the job well enough for an airbrushing beginner like me. Not so great for fancy detailing work, but does a good job of giving a smooth even coat on large surfaces. Pretty much does exactly what I need an airbrush for in the first place. One of the main drawbacks of the basic compressor is that it's a little louder than the Revo (68db to the Revo's 56db), and can only be safely used up to 20-30 minutes. Any longer, and you risk overheating the plastic gears. The included airbrush is also a single action one, but that's more of an advantage for me, since it's easy to control and clean. You also have to buy a separate AC adapter or one of Tamiya's RC battery packs. Other than that, the specs are pretty much the same as that of the Revo: 15 psi, etc. For the spray booth, I'm getting the Tamiya spray booth II, single fan version. One question: is the single fan one good enough if I use it with only a NIOSH N95 mask (non-FOV)? I'll be doing my spraying in an air-conditioned room, and the filtered air is circulated back into the room. About that 1/350 scale battleship...how big is that thing? Looks like a ton of assembly work. Edited April 29, 2012 by GU-11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefuemon Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Spray booth should be fine with that mask. Just remember to do your work in the hood! I've got a bad habit of keeping my work a little too far away from the fan for it to work effectively. You do probably want to vent outside, though. I've got a quick, easy way to do that; crack the window, put the tube in the bottom part, then cut out strips of cardboard to fit the gap left in the window. Since I use the booth only in the winter time, that does really cut down on the amount of cold air getting in. If you check the On the Workbench thread, I've posted a recent shot of the Musashi. Yes, a lot of parts! And I haven' even gotten to the (probably) 30 plus machine guns to spread around the deck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommar Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 My experiences: Absolutely go for airbrushing, it will open a new dimension in modeling to you. Invest in a good compresor (with water trap) rather than a fancy airbrush. I have two high-end double acion ABs from my airbrush illustration era, and have almost never used them for my model work. My workhorse is a Badger 350 (about 40$), easy handling & cleaning and unbreakable. Check out my models here, all painted with the badger and Tamyia acrylics: http://www.flickr.co...57628084123703/ Do you purely paint models with this or would you recommend this for painting Yammies too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electric indigo Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 I worked on vinyl, polystyrene and polyurethane resin kits, and I don't see why it shouldn't work on the toys. But check other toy modder's threads for the recommended primer and colors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GU-11 Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 Spray booth should be fine with that mask. Just remember to do your work in the hood! I've got a bad habit of keeping my work a little too far away from the fan for it to work effectively. You do probably want to vent outside, though. I've got a quick, easy way to do that; crack the window, put the tube in the bottom part, then cut out strips of cardboard to fit the gap left in the window. Since I use the booth only in the winter time, that does really cut down on the amount of cold air getting in. If you check the On the Workbench thread, I've posted a recent shot of the Musashi. Yes, a lot of parts! And I haven' even gotten to the (probably) 30 plus machine guns to spread around the deck. Understood, and thanks for the tip on the windows. Some modellers complain about the booth being too small for them to turn their scale jet fighters around when spraying the other side. It should be okay for me, since I mostly build bipedal mecha kits with smaller footprints. BTW, I made a mistake about the difference in psi between the basic model and the Revo. The basic one is only 7 psi for continuous pressure, while the Revo's is 10 psi. I don't know how much of a difference this makes, but the guys who reviewed it didn't complain about it, so it should be okay. Wow, that kit you're building looks massive. 30 machine gun turrets? Just looking at those rows of tiny parts you've got blu-tacked to those sticks...I bow in respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefuemon Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I measured the Musashi this morning, and it's 75 cm long. I've had no problems spraying the 1/72 Hasegawa Macross series in the hood. "In the 'Hood, yo!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GU-11 Posted April 30, 2012 Author Share Posted April 30, 2012 Among 1/72 Macross fighters, the VF-1's are usually on the smallish side. But if something like, say, a 1/72 YF-19 or VF-0 could fit, then the booth shuld provide ample space for all my spraying needs. As for the Musashi, dude, I seriously doubt it'll fit in your spray booth--not sideways, at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GU-11 Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 NEED HELP! Need some advice on ac adapters here, guys! Turns out, the local Tamiya store doesn't sell the ac adapter required to run the compressor (the Japanese adapter is 100v, which is incompatible here). They said I had to go to an electronics store to buy one. Here's the real problem: the specs they gave was for a 12V 3-5 Amp AC adapter. But the specs on the compressor itself says 7.2V. I've read from a local thread where a guy ran his compressor through an ac adapter at 6v, but the power was too low. He had to switch to 12v for it to run smoothly. It seems to run fine on a 6v battery, but not on ac with the same voltage. Either way, I'm worried that running the compressor at 12v might fry the motor. Any advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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