if it is YAMATO who gets the macross frontier toy license

[eugimon]

Meh, trivializing the numerous issues that went wrong with the DX 25 while creating a worst case scenario for a yamato launch is really fun rhetoric but it's not really an honest exchange.

The fact is, the dx 25 required a re-tool to be able to wear that armor requiring people to have to rebuy their valks to be able to get it. A great deal of what they did sell was through websclusives... meaning Bandai either couldn't get retailers to commit to it or just wanted to exploit fans.

The flip side of the argument could just as easily be:

I'd have a nice line up of yamato frontier valks that cost 25% less because yamato didn't have to pay licensing fees this time around. Toys that look aesthetically like they were designed this decade and not last. Toys that didn't require a revision just to get it to work with accessories that I didn't have to pay someone to be a proxy buyer for me that fit on the standalone figures I bought in the first place without having to swap out little bits here and there, dismantle part of the leg here, keep track of a little neck extension piece there and oh yeah, the gunpod would stow in fighter mode without another little add on clip piece. With uniform color across the entire toy. All that and the paint wouldn't rub off when I touched it.

And I've said this before but you can always fix broken, it's harder to fix this:

[ruskiiVFaussie]

Ghey!

[DARKWIND]

Whew!!!

This has been one hell of a debate!

As I see it both sides have good points and counter-points.

I just hope that both companies are seeing this and taking it all in.

You know to step up the game and produce better items for 2012.

They have the time and talent, with our cash the resources to make it one hell of a show.

[ae_productions]

Whew!!!

This has been one hell of a debate!

As I see it both sides have good points and counter-points.

I just hope that both companies are seeing this and taking it all in.

You know to step up the game and produce better items for 2012.

They have the time and talent, with our cash the resources to make it one hell of a show.

You get an Amen to that!

[jenius]

I thought the only thing the retool did was make it so that you could apply Luca's armor to Ozma's or Alto's valks. You also can't just "fix" broken. You could... if you lived in Japan I suppose. Meanwhile I had several people on anymoon.com asking me where in the world they could get replacement V2 shoulders because whatever they tried, they could not just fix the V2's shoulders. Sure, Graham came through for a lot of people but that's hardly something Yamato deserves praise for. That was Yamato's third generation toy and many people have ones that are still missing one or both arms without any way of fixing them (which I'm sure we could blame on HG but Bandai has that same obstacle). Broken is a hell of a lot more damning in my book than "I wish the crotch angled out better" or "I wish some accessories that may not have been made if sales had sucked were originally designed to be incorporated into the toy even though there's a good chance I'll never buy said accessories." TONS of people bought the original VF-25 toys, much less purchased the Tamashii web exclusive parts or the GBP giftset so it's not like the problems with the accessories affect everyone who bought the original. When my Yamato's break they break to uselessness. My armless VF-0 playing next to my armless VF-1 reminds us all of the horrors of war but do little to make me feel good about the money spent. The floppy VF-25 in armor though still holds it pose just fine and looks good on the shelf but I wouldn't want to touch it for I know the frustration it will be. Great toy? No. Better than an amrless toy? Yes... and that's the worst example and that's including the fact it does have broken hinges which as of yet don't seem to be ruining it.

EDIT - Yes, you could argue that somebody with tools and some elbow grease could fix a toy using a bit of spare metal... but you could also argue a customizer could make a new pilot sculpt and paint it.

I'd have a nice line up of yamato frontier valks that cost 25% less because yamato didn't have to pay licensing fees this time around. Toys that look aesthetically like they were designed this decade and not last. Toys that didn't require a revision just to get it to work with accessories that I didn't have to pay someone to be a proxy buyer for me that fit on the standalone figures I bought in the first place without having to swap out little bits here and there, dismantle part of the leg here, keep track of a little neck extension piece there and oh yeah, the gunpod would stow in fighter mode without another little add on clip piece. With uniform color across the entire toy. All that and the paint wouldn't rub off when I touched it.

The hypothetical about the 25% less just seems like a pipedream. Yamato would have to make money from having funded an anime so that cost probably gets washed (or worse). Yamato's track record also disputes any hypothetical about you having any where near as many toys as Bandai has managed with the success Bandai has had. Bandai has way more resources and spreads their toys through different price levels. Yamato hovers right around the "Oh man, I'm gonna have to save all year for that toy" mark and since the economic downturn barely seems to have the mustard to make any new toys at all. I have no doubt we would have gotten twice as good a toy from Yamato for twice the price ($180ish?) but I also have no doubt that toy would sell very slowly in the economy that Bandai did well in (and I'd still be staring at that toy's shoulders every time I moved the arms). I think your hypothetical involves a Yamato with Bandai's resources and in my hypothetical I'm still pinning Yamato where they've been for the last year +.

Edited October 27, 2010 by jenius

[eugimon]

took me less than 30 mins to permanently fix the one busted shoulder my 1 out of 12 ver 2 1/60 vf-1's had. Boohoo, end of the world.

Yeah, I'll take those odds over the two busted hinges and an entire 25 worth of suck any day and twice on sundays.

It still boils down to the fact that your doomsday scenario for a yamato vf-25 is just that, a doomsday scenario. But we've all seen what Bandai's answer is.

I guess in that respect you're right. If yamato had released something so flawed as the dx vf-25, there would be panic and hysteria here. But since it's Bandai, all's well.

[ff95gj]

I am enlightened that we've got a superior line of toys, the DX VF-25. However, I can't see how they managed to drive down the cost when compared to Yamato offerings.

Y 1/48 VF-1: 14800 yen

Y 1/60 VF-1: 9800 yen

B 1/60 VF-25: 12000 yen

The size of the 1/60 VF-25 toy is between the 1/48 and 1/60 VF-1.

[lechuck]

took me less than 30 mins to permanently fix the one busted shoulder my 1 out of 12 ver 2 1/60 vf-1's had. Boohoo, end of the world.

Yeah, I'll take those odds over the two busted hinges and an entire 25 worth of suck any day and twice on sundays.

It still boils down to the fact that your doomsday scenario for a yamato vf-25 is just that, a doomsday scenario. But we've all seen what Bandai's answer is.

I guess in that respect you're right. If yamato had released something so flawed as the dx vf-25, there would be panic and hysteria here. But since it's Bandai, all's well.

If limbless pilots (like Yamato has never done that before) are a killer criteria for you then don't buy the toy in the first place!?

A Broken 200$ toy is broken 200$ toy, regardless whether I need 3 sec, 30 min or 3 years to repair it.

It only means I have to go out my way to spend more money to fix or replace things.

Why should that make me happier customer of Yamato's products?

I am enlightened that we've got a superior line of toys, the DX VF-25. However, I can't see how they managed to drive down the cost when compared to Yamato offerings.

Y 1/48 VF-1: 14800 yen

Y 1/60 VF-1: 9800 yen

B 1/60 VF-25: 12000 yen

The size of the 1/60 VF-25 toy is between the 1/48 and 1/60 VF-1.

And yet a VF-11 which is only marginally bigger than a VF-1 costs 18800 yen list price.

Still think Yamato has super duper price offerings?

[eugimon]

If limbless pilots (like Yamato has never done that before) are a killer criteria for you then don't buy the toy in the first place!?

A Broken 200$ toy is broken 200$ toy, regardless whether I need 3 sec, 30 min or 3 years to repair it.

It only means I have to go out my way to spend more money to fix or replace things.

Why should that make me happier customer of Yamato's products?

And yet a VF-11 which is only marginally bigger than a VF-1 costs 18800 yen list price.

Still think Yamato has super duper price offerings?

Thanks for so perfectly illustrating my point:

I guess in that respect you're right. If yamato had released something so flawed as the dx vf-25, there would be panic and hysteria here. But since it's Bandai, all's well.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

Until Yamato is even able to obtain the license, I think it's pointless to hope for them to get it. It's been said that Bandai has the exclusive license and will have it for a long while. By the time it expires, will Yamato even want it? Even by then, who is to say Bandai will not have released a DX 2.0 or renewal?

They've used the same designers from time to time at different times. FLEX who worked on the DX VF-27 is the same guy who worked on the 1/48 and did some work on the V1 1/60 VF-1 with Billy Wong. Yet FLEX, IIRC, prior to that work, was a MG Gundam designer. Note that Bandai's Hobby Division works on those and the DX VF-25 was by Tamashii, their Collector's Division.

Since FLEX is from the Hobby Division, I think Bandai should just get someone from their Hobby Division(if not FLEX), to design a new VF-25 toy. If Yamato were to get the VF-25 license, would it be FLEX, SOLID, or T-Rex doing the designs? Who knows. Yet it's not going to happen anytime soon, if at all, so our best bet is hoping Bandai hires one of those guys/teams to re-design the DX VF-25 or start from scratch, incorporating all the improvements of the DX VF-27.

[Vifam7]

This is why I've started to build Macross model kits instead buying certain high priced toys. At least with a model kit, the quality is dependent on my skills as a builder - which is way below average but at least I can only blame myself.

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

This is why I've started to build Macross model kits instead buying certain high priced toys. At least with a model kit, the quality is dependent on my skills as a builder - which is way below average but at least I can only blame myself.

It does save you money too. I think it's pretty clear too, the fandom, prefers products from Bandai's Hobby Division over Collector's Division(Tamashii). FLEX is from the Hobby Division and his DX 27 is arguably the most liked DX Macross F toy aside from the Quarter and Monster.

[EXO]

Not the kits I'm building... plus you gotta buy all the equipment... in the long run maybe but a kit just doesn't have the heft and playability. It all has to do with what you prefer. I have the tayland VF-171 WF kit and it's beautiful but I'd end up buying a 1/60 VF-171 by Bandai if they released (if it's nothing like the VF-25 which I never picked up.) I just figured I'll weather up all my kits and leave my toys alone unless it's a custom scheme that I want in scale with the other toys.

[Vifam7]

Not the kits I'm building... plus you gotta buy all the equipment... in the long run maybe but a kit just doesn't have the heft and playability. It all has to do with what you prefer.

Yup. In my case, I rarely play with my toys. In fact, I'd be perfectly happy with non-transforming fighter mode only which I can display only. But that's just me.

As for the cost for the cost of building kits, IMO, it's not that much depending on what you deem is required to build a kit. In my case and at my skill level, some brushes, paint, glue, and sanding paper is pretty much it. Oh, plus patience and knowing/accepting your limits <- VERY IMPORTANT WHEN BUILDING KITS . Most of the equipment tends to last a while. One could potentially build 4 Hasegawa kits for the price of one 1/60 Yamato or DX Bandai.

I'm not saying I won't buy any Yamato or Bandai completed toys. But if I'm not happy with the looks, QC, or anything else I deem as not worth the price charged, I'm going to check out the model kits.

[EXO]

I skipped the VF-25 because I thought the models looked better but at the end I didn't get either. LOL. I'm spending all my money on one kit for the rest of the year and that the regult (example of the opposite of affordable kits ) but that Bandai Monster keeps calling.

[Snail00]

Until Yamato is even able to obtain the license, I think it's pointless to hope for them to get it. It's been said that Bandai has the exclusive license and will have it for a long while. By the time it expires, will Yamato even want it? Even by then, who is to say Bandai will not have released a DX 2.0 or renewal?

They've used the same designers from time to time at different times. FLEX who worked on the DX VF-27 is the same guy who worked on the 1/48 and did some work on the V1 1/60 VF-1 with Billy Wong. Yet FLEX, IIRC, prior to that work, was a MG Gundam designer. Note that Bandai's Hobby Division works on those and the DX VF-25 was by Tamashii, their Collector's Division.

Since FLEX is from the Hobby Division, I think Bandai should just get someone from their Hobby Division(if not FLEX), to design a new VF-25 toy. If Yamato were to get the VF-25 license, would it be FLEX, SOLID, or T-Rex doing the designs? Who knows. Yet it's not going to happen anytime soon, if at all, so our best bet is hoping Bandai hires one of those guys/teams to re-design the DX VF-25 or start from scratch, incorporating all the improvements of the DX VF-27.

Awesome. That was very informative on the divisions and their respective robot designs.

[VF-18S Hornet]

i konw the vf 25 DX toy is a failure for some macross fans, but the success of toy is not only about the design engeneering, but also about the marketing and strategy, so in my opion the vf DX toy is a success anyway.

if it is YAMATO who makes the vf 25 toy, will vf 25 become more (or less) popular?

by the way, which style do you think is more suitable for vf 25? toylish or modelish?

No kidding My VF-25S keep unlatching itself when it's in battroid mode.Too many extra parts just to transform. I might consider selling it just to make room

[ff95gj]

And yet a VF-11 which is only marginally bigger than a VF-1 costs 18800 yen list price.

Still think Yamato has super duper price offerings?

The MSRP is related to the expected total sales and Economics of Scale.

How many non die-hard Macross fans would be interested in a VF-11? And how milkable the mold is?

How many non die-hard Macross fans would be interested in a VF-25? And how milkable the mold is?

Shall we compare a VF-25 to a VF-11, or a VF-1?

P.S. I think also because the VF-11 comes with the FAST parts, and although the VF-11 FAST parts are not many, they took the excuse to charge it as a Valk + FAST combo.

Edited October 28, 2010 by ff95gj

[EXO]

Yup. Also, Bandai is a much bigger company and the amount of money they spend on outsourcing is much greater so they can get better price breaks for their materials, contractors, warehouse fees, labor, etc...

[Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0]

The MSRP is related to the expected total sales and Economics of Scale.

How many non die-hard Macross fans would be interested in a VF-11? And how milkable the mold is?

How many non die-hard Macross fans would be interested in a VF-25? And how milkable the mold is?

Shall we compare a VF-25 to a VF-11, or a VF-1?

P.S. I think also because the VF-11 comes with the FAST parts, and although the VF-11 FAST parts are not many, they took the excuse to charge it as a Valk + FAST combo.

Not to mention, you have to mention the amount of small internal parts needed to be cast for the VF-11. The VF-11 is deceiving, on the outside, it looks simple, but there are a lot of complex mechanisms within that are only viewable once you take it apart. The more smaller parts that need to have tools cut for, the more expensive the cost of production. Wouldn't be surprised if it's more than the V2 1/60 VF-1.

Also, the VF-11 is a bigger toy than the VF-1 overall, and this was not apparent to me until I got mine and saw it in person. The pics on the net do not do it justice in that regard.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Shin Densetsu Kai 7.0