DHX Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 okay, i've heard cloning being banded around in relation to macross and eventually how it was banned. can some one elaborate on what this cloning entailed? by this i mean are we talking.. full clones? artificial created from a dna mix humans? were they: grown to adult hood and educated? or allowed a normal growth/maturation? Why exactly did they stop/When did they stop? how wide spread was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taksraven Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I haven't heard about the cloning being banned before in the Macross universe, but I think that it would actually have to have been pretty widespread, esp. if the human/Zentraedi races were to expand so far across the universe and so quickly after SW1. Its interesting how a lot of the technology other than valk-related stuff DONT get discussed so much. Taksraven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I haven't heard about the cloning being banned before in the Macross universe, but I think that it would actually have to have been pretty widespread, esp. if the human/Zentraedi races were to expand so far across the universe and so quickly after SW1. Its interesting how a lot of the technology other than valk-related stuff DONT get discussed so much. Taksraven I haven't heard of this being brought up before either, but I agree that it would make sense to an extent since the human population was to say the least drastically reduced after the Zentraedi bombardment of earth and you need a lot of people to rebuild cities, build interstellar space craft, colonize other planets, etc. Of course, the population would have been swelled by Zentraedi/Meltrandi amalgamation in peace time so that could account for a lot of it. I would really like to hear if there has been an official statement on this rather than speculation on my part. Besides, who needs cloning when repopulation done the old-school way can be so much fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Unlike Zentradi clones of old which Cloning Synthesis made them massed produced soldiers with awareness, the clones which were produced after SW1 actually had childhoods. The reason why cloning was stopped is because kids were starting to get sick of the same diseases. This suggest a lack of diversity in the population. So around 15+ years after repopulation programs cloning stopped to avert further dangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 (edited) (...) The reason why cloning was stopped is because kids were starting to get sick of the same diseases. (...) "Damn! I hate the common cold!" "That's it... stop cloning!" Did you, by chance, want to say, "get sick from the same diseases"? Anyhow, it's all on the Macross Compendium. It's been there for years. Close to a decade: 2010 May Mass cloning of people as well as animals and plants through the use of Protoculture technology begins. http://macross.anime.net/story/chronology/2010/index.html 2030 December Because of the increase in hereditary children's diseases due to the overuse of cloning, mass cloning is terminated. http://macross.anime.net/story/chronology/2013/index.html As for cloning per se, see: http://www.macrossroleplay.org/forums/index.php?topic=2017.0 for an idea of what that entailed; in regards to the Humanity Seeding Plan. Edited June 6, 2009 by sketchley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Focker Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 We know that Mass Cloning started in 2010 and ended in 2030 because of hereditary children's diseases from overuse of cloning. - See Macross Compendium. The rest is just speculation: full clones? artificial created from a dna mix humans? Don't know but seems that genetic defects got passed. grown to adult hood and educated? or allowed a normal growth/maturation? About 1 million people lived through the SW1. The population had to of increase greatly for all the future colonization missions. Cloning is a good solution but who is going to raise these millions and millions of clone babies? Why exactly did they stop/When did they stop? See above. how wide spread was it? See above. It was called Mass Cloning. Last 20 years. You got Colonization Fleets with millions of people. Most of them be cloned people or children of clones. Then again, the animated footage barely even hints about Cloning. We know it had to happen to explain the large population of the future but wouldn't think there are clones from watching Macross 7 or Frontier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Focker Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Drat beat me to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macross007 Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Two days ago, I have finished watching Macross 7 for the third time (yes people for the THIRD time ) and I think I saw a clone of Minmay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 We know that Mass Cloning started in 2010 and ended in 2030 because of hereditary children's diseases from overuse of cloning. - See Macross Compendium. The rest is just speculation: Don't know but seems that genetic defects got passed. About 1 million people lived through the SW1. The population had to of increase greatly for all the future colonization missions. Cloning is a good solution but who is going to raise these millions and millions of clone babies? See above. See above. It was called Mass Cloning. Last 20 years. You got Colonization Fleets with millions of people. Most of them be cloned people or children of clones. Then again, the animated footage barely even hints about Cloning. We know it had to happen to explain the large population of the future but wouldn't think there are clones from watching Macross 7 or Frontier. Well Macross Frontier with Howard Glass, Leon Mishima and Admiral Perry did have look-alikes probably clones. Some say the town mayor who didn't want the miclone chamber taken by the military looked like glass. Aegis Focker is likely a clone of Roy Focker. Even Miss Flower Girl may be a clone of Minmay's Flower Girl. (Stalkings genetic?) Even Basara being the son of Hikaru and Minmay may be valid. Given if they had their genetic material. Macross 7 though doesn't feel to be clone colony. I get the impression with the soldier retirement home that the population is from the old Macross City or direct descendants of SDF-1 Macross citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Well Macross Frontier with Howard Glass, Leon Mishima and Admiral Perry did have look-alikes probably clones. Some say the town mayor who didn't want the miclone chamber taken by the military looked like glass. I don't think they looked alike...they just had the same voice actor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung flu Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Even though cloning is accepted as part of the cannon, I don't really like the idea of it. I like to think the huge population growth is the result of people having over 10 babies or more as part of a population drive encouraging people to go at it like rabbits. Also some macross fleets and colonies aren't all human as some are only zentradi. So i'm guessing the Zentradi population is far greater than the humans and make up the majority of UN spacy fleets and colonies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Even though cloning is accepted as part of the cannon, I don't really like the idea of it. I like to think the huge population growth is the result of people having over 10 babies or more as part of a population drive encouraging people to go at it like rabbits. Also some macross fleets and colonies aren't all human as some are only zentradi. So i'm guessing the Zentradi population is far greater than the humans and make up the majority of UN spacy fleets and colonies. Just think - many people were cloned to adulthood. They were then encouraged to continue making babies the old fashioned way. The result - a population explosion! So - is the question of clones going at it unacceptable for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHX Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 thanks everybody for clearing that up for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bri Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) Adult clones would exclude the use of mixed DNA clones. Don't think a clone can function as a human adult without giving the clone memories and professional skills. They would need the memories and skills of the original. Not to mention the ethics of taking away a persons youth. Hmm, this would explain the two Minmays in FB2012 during the takeoff. My guess would be that the writers were diliberatly vague about it as it opens up quite a few cans of worms. Personally I would rather have had a retcon stating that a lot more humans had survided the bombardment. Say if 10% of the population survived, the world could be repopulated within 2 generations. The Zentradi are a different story. The majority that remain on earth are part of Britais fleet of 1200 ships if we should believe Klans story. She stated that the rioters in Frontier were part of the forces that never swithced sides during SW1. What happened to the remains of Bodolza's fleet that folded out? That should be more then half of the 5 million ships. Then again maybe its best to let this bit of Macross continuity a bit fuzzy. Edited June 7, 2009 by Bri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 What happened to the remains of Bodolza's fleet that folded out? Well some of them blew a SA gunship when they bugged out of Earth. UN Spacy's expedition to steal the Factory Satellite saw the wreck. Some likely became trouble makers thus the order Max had from Earth to destroy any rogue Zentradi fleet encountered. Chlore's fleet was under Bodolle Zer's command but did not participate in SW 1. They only got sketchy reports about miclones, Vrlitwhai turning traitor, and the transforming battleship. With Bodlolle Zer gone the chain of command of that Boddole fleet was in shambles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung flu Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Just think - many people were cloned to adulthood. They were then encouraged to continue making babies the old fashioned way. The result - a population explosion! So - is the question of clones going at it unacceptable for you? Since zentradi are sort of "human" and since they have a greater population I don't see the need to make clones since we can also mate with zentradis and have many children with them. The only thing that really makes us different from them is that we have culture and when they adopted culture they became more like us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Since zentradi are sort of "human" and since they have a greater population I don't see the need to make clones since we can also mate with zentradis and have many children with them. The only thing that really makes us different from them is that we have culture and when they adopted culture they became more like us. But Guld had problems due to his Zentradi genes...would they really want an entire generation prone to anger management issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I don't think they looked alike...they just had the same voice actor. i've always theorized that they're clones of each other, but blimey, i didn't even know before that they shared the same VA. imagine that. btw, doesn't the taxi driver in MF (driving Sheryl around while she was sick) also look like Glass, if i remember correctly? Wouldn't you just hate to be have a clone who's the most powerful man in the fleet, and be driving a cab for a living. "Damn Howard, what does he have that I don't?? .... wait, nothing! bummer...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 i've always theorized that they're clones of each other, but blimey, i didn't even know before that they shared the same VA. imagine that. btw, doesn't the taxi driver in MF (driving Sheryl around while she was sick) also look like Glass, if i remember correctly? Wouldn't you just hate to be have a clone who's the most powerful man in the fleet, and be driving a cab for a living. "Damn Howard, what does he have that I don't?? .... wait, nothing! bummer...." Don't forget Leon selling dresses! And I always wondered if Marj from Plus was a clone of Max, since they looked kind of similar and had the same voice actor as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Don't forget Leon selling dresses! And I always wondered if Marj from Plus was a clone of Max, since they looked kind of similar and had the same voice actor as well... yeah, but given Leon's ultimate fate by the end of the series, i'm guessing Leon-salesman would be quite content where he is right now. But then again, Leon did get to do the nasty (on an office table, no less) with Cathy, so... hmmm... with all these clones roaming about.... WHERE the hell are the Minmay clones??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 yeah, but given Leon's ultimate fate by the end of the series, i'm guessing Leon-salesman would be quite content where he is right now. But then again, Leon did get to do the nasty (on an office table, no less) with Cathy, so... hmmm... with all these clones roaming about.... WHERE the hell are the Minmay clones??? THEY'RE HERE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 yeah, but given Leon's ultimate fate by the end of the series, i'm guessing Leon-salesman would be quite content where he is right now. But then again, Leon did get to do the nasty (on an office table, no less) with Cathy, so... hmmm... with all these clones roaming about.... WHERE the hell are the Minmay clones??? THEY'RE HERE! Dear, sweet Jesus.... HE HAS AWOKEN THE BEAST! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gubaba Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Dear, sweet Jesus.... HE HAS AWOKEN THE BEAST! No, that would be the Kaifun clones... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macross007 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 No, that would be the Kaifun clones... How about Basara clones ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 THEY'RE HERE! Not enough!! haha. and by the way, which one is the mutated clone? you know, the one who came up with such hits like "to be in love" and "we will win"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macross007 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Not enough!! haha. and by the way, which one is the mutated clone? you know, the one who came up with such hits like "to be in love" and "we will win"... The consequences of genetic diseases you know. No wonder they stop doing clones in the Macross universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Since zentradi are sort of "human" and since they have a greater population I don't see the need to make clones since we can also mate with zentradis and have many children with them. The only thing that really makes us different from them is that we have culture and when they adopted culture they became more like us. Ah, but then it wouldn't be the repopulation of the human race, but the replacement of it with the Zentraadi race. I'm not saying that the Zentraadi didn't procreate - there is at least one known Zentraadi Super Long Range Emigration Fleet, and plenty spread out through the ships and colonies that we've seen in the post SDF:M/DYRL animations. There's equal likelihood that Zentraadi and humans procreated. However, the mass cloning was undertaken to restore humanity. Therefore, 100% Zentraadi or mixed Zentraadi/human offspring wouldn't meet the mandatae of the mass cloning project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung flu Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) But Guld had problems due to his Zentradi genes...would they really want an entire generation prone to anger management issues? But full humans are just as prone to become angry and violent as well. The Zentradi are human to me, otherwise global wouldn't have accepted their asylum in the tv show. They were found to be the same as us genetically, so give them a bit of culture and they will become more like earth humans. The zentradi do have culture in the form of warfare and that is hard to do away with, parents would pass on they're beliefs and attitudes on to their children, whos to say Guld may have had such influence from is parents. No one is born violent, people become violent due to their experience, circumstances and influences. About preseving the human race, if they were really different from us like klingons, then maybe cloning is required Edited June 8, 2009 by kung flu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bri Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 yeah, but given Leon's ultimate fate by the end of the series, i'm guessing Leon-salesman would be quite content where he is right now. But then again, Leon did get to do the nasty (on an office table, no less) with Cathy, so... hmmm... with all these clones roaming about.... WHERE the hell are the Minmay clones??? THEY'RE HERE! Minmay cloning must have been limited for genetic reasons, I'm sure every Zentradi male would want a Minmay as partner Hmm, the idea of a 50% Zentradi 50% Minmay population... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHX Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 Hmm, the idea of a 50% Zentradi 50% Minmay population... i'm gonna use that in a fanfic one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Ah, but then it wouldn't be the repopulation of the human race, but the replacement of it with the Zentraadi race. I'm not saying that the Zentraadi didn't procreate - there is at least one known Zentraadi Super Long Range Emigration Fleet, and plenty spread out through the ships and colonies that we've seen in the post SDF:M/DYRL animations. There's equal likelihood that Zentraadi and humans procreated. However, the mass cloning was undertaken to restore humanity. Therefore, 100% Zentraadi or mixed Zentraadi/human offspring wouldn't meet the mandatae of the mass cloning project. There's a 100% likelihood. Guld is half Zent, half human; all 8 of Max and Milia's kids, as well. That said, if you meant by the masses, then it's, although not explicitly stated, extremely likely as well. i'm gonna use that in a fanfic one day. OH GAWD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamweaver13 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Minmay cloning must have been limited for genetic reasons, I'm sure every Zentradi male would want a Minmay as partner maybe somewhere out there is a macronized Minmei! beat that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 There's a 100% likelihood. Guld is half Zent, half human; all 8 of Max and Milia's kids, as well. (...) Thank you for taking the time to exactly restate my point using common Macross knowledge . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchizophrenicMC Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Thank you for taking the time to exactly restate my point using common Macross knowledge . Don't you just LOVE my PokeStatements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketchley Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Don't you just LOVE my PokeStatements? No. Mindless one liners don't work (I'd rather see an Arnold Schwartzenegger Movie). Erudite and esoteric posts do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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