ZorClone Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 from www.section31.com comes this great column which you should give a read, and educate yourself.. http://www.section31.com/columns/hail10.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobywan Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 I was around and watching the progress of the show from the first air date of TNG. I agree with most of what the article sites. But I must say the a lot of the episodes that are credited to Braga were real stinkers. And comparing Jolene's cold nipples to Nichele's long legs is a bit flawed too. And the fact that there was a huge rise in writing quality for season two is interesting since there was a writers strike at the time! They used a script that was written for ST phase II under the the Roddenberry regime in the late 70's. But I do agree that the B&B bashing is irritating. and Roddenberry was a tyrant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UN Spacy Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 For those of you that don't know about ol' B & B. B) That's Berman (on the right) and Braga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 (edited) Another Trek fan boy site posting the same old "Voyager was actually a good show!" refrain over and over again. Been there, done that, exposed it as BS, and had great fun all the while Edited October 16, 2003 by Mr March Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingNor Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 as a non trekkie, and as someone who has seen many of the shows, i gotta say this is nitpicking on a grand scale! when ever i would happen apon a star trek show they all seemed pretty much the same. i think this is just a case of stat and trivia obbsessed fans over studying a product that is designed for exactly one hour of attention. not several hours per episode, ive seen some people take notes while watching. its just a show, for entertainment, not a science lesson or bible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Voyager was a good show? What?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZorClone Posted October 16, 2003 Author Share Posted October 16, 2003 don't get me wrong, I'm the type of Trek fan who takes each series and each episode for what it is.. an entertaining hour of sci-fi TV.. the only reason I brought this up is because of other threads that have popped up on this board about Trek that all turned in to a B&B bashing war.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAG Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Well, I have to agree with coby....i didn't think a lot of those eps were great. Besides, most rational fans don't dispute that B+B did great things for TNG. Most people are just saying that they need to give it up and move on...........after all Roddenberry had to do the same, why doesn't that apply to these two? Also, Voyager was painful to watch, and I've given up on Enterprise and I'm not that nit-picky.....the show just has lazy writers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UN Spacy Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 I've given up on Enterprise and I'm not that nit-picky.....the show just has lazy writers. That's too bad because the third season has been really good. Personally, I grew up on TNG and would be just fine without DS9 and VOY ruining the flow. With Berman and Braga they SEEM to be trying their hardest the please the fans. But nowadays opinions are like @$$holes, everyone's got one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobywan Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 My favorite ST series is DS9. Even though the concept was ripped off from a proposal by JMS to Paramount to produce Babylon 5. I ended up liking both series for different reasons. But yeah, TNG episode are better when watched randomly than any of the Voyager ones. I can watch TNG over and like it. But Voyager makes me antsy and I end up doing something else. Maybe that's not a bad thing. <_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Besides, most rational fans don't dispute that B+B did great things for TNG. Most people are just saying that they need to give it up and move on...........after all Roddenberry had to do the same, why doesn't that apply to these two? Err.. Roddenberry "gave up" Star Trek due to unavoidable circumstances (ie, passing away). Unless of course you're suggesting the same fate for B&B. -Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAG Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Wow, cobywan.....our views on Trek and aparently B5 are exactly the same. I'm hoping they release all 7 seasons of DS9 in one big box set. Sundown, the article on the site said that Rodenberry was slowly forced to relinquish some control of the franchise by the networks and studios. They pointed to ST II as being one of the projects that he had to let others work on. I'm not suggesting that they die, just move on to other projects and let new blood take control of the franchise. UN................eh. Although a return to the 'planet of the week' scenario isn't necessarily a bad thing, I just don't think its being well written. I don't get the sense that this is really humanity's first few steps into space. It feels the same as TOS when they were an established, large interstellar civilization. (Except now they throw a line in like "Wow, this is so new to us!") Also, the never before mentioned war with the new species and this expanse where the laws of physics don't work......I'm not buying that. There's just no need. They had the Klingons and the Romulans which was plenty of great material to work with. I'm not a slave to continuity, but theres no reason to make a massive change here. And I wasn't buying that stupid temporal cold war on Voy either. Not to say that there weren't things I liked. I loved the first few eps with the Klingons (seeing that cap say 'I can see my house from here' was priceless). I thought the Nausicaan episode was cool too, and more along the lines of how the series should go. I also like this Vulcan/Andorian cold war they thought of, and loved the episode where it turned out that the monastery was a Vulcan listening post. Oh well...........shoulda, woulda, coulda....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry the lone wolf Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Besides, most rational fans don't dispute that B+B did great things for TNG. Most people are just saying that they need to give it up and move on...........after all Roddenberry had to do the same, why doesn't that apply to these two? Err.. Roddenberry "gave up" Star Trek due to unavoidable circumstances (ie, passing away). Unless of course you're suggesting the same fate for B&B. -Al Wait, I think Cag meant when the show was cancelled in 1967. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobotFool Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 (edited) Next Gen, DS9, TOS, best treks. Enterprise, I don't hate it but it doesn't stand up to the others. Voyager, ughhhhhh..... I really hated that show. It was the show I wanted to not hate, but it was weak in all places that count acting, writing, concept. FX were okay though. 7 of nine was hot.... You know a show is bad when its only redeeming feature is that it dressed the cute gals in form fitting clothes Edited October 17, 2003 by GobotFool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uxi Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I'm not a trekkie or anything... besides a few episodes I don't think the bulk of TNG was any better than the bulk of Voyager. Hardly watched Voyager and didnt' watch DS9 at all until they got into that war, which was cool and not typical Trek 'solve it after the last commercial break' bit. I was hoping Enterprise might have a TOS jingoistic attitude to it (should be even more pronounced IMO) but it's typical PC technobabble schlock. At least in the 2 or 3 episodes I've seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glane21 Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Of all the new Trek series, the episode "Yesterday's Enterprise" from TNG stands out as what they can do when it all comes together. That episode rocked. Most of the time, though, they rely on all this technobabble horseshit like "if we direct a subspace tachyon particle from the main deflector , or release plasma from the warp core, it just might let us break free." That gets old. In the old days, all they needed was Kirk to kick somebody's ass or screw some chick and the job got done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobywan Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 ...I don't think the bulk of TNG was any better than the bulk of Voyager. Hardly watched Voyager... From this statement how the hell would you know that TNG wasn't any better than Voyager? That is just really wierd. It is all moot anyway. All the ST shows suck compared to Stargate:SG1 and Farscape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uxi Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 It is all moot anyway. All the ST shows suck compared to Stargate:SG1 and Farscape. I obviously watched some. maybe even a good portion of Voyager, just not religiously and mostly through re-runs. As a kid I memorized most of TOS when it was at 11pm on Ch 13 here in LA. I watched most of TNG with a bad taste in my mouth, with the occassional exception. Watched increasingly less of DS9 and the least of Voyager. And only 2 eps of Enterprise. I'm saying that as a non-trekkie Voyager is not much better, if at all, than TNG... from the somewhat-outsiders perspective. If I had to rank them... 1) TOS, 2) DS9 with the rest eking out mediocrity and living on their franchise name and reputation. Stargate? I just wish they had used different characters when they switched up actors. Was there any reason not to? Especially when the characterizations of Richard Dean Anderson is so different from that of Kurt Russel. From what I've seen of the series I like it. Though the Nordic ones seem kinda silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobywan Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 What is funny is the TV Stargate actors are now the proper ones for me. Watching the movie now is kinda wierd for me. And I agree the DS9 was my favorite ST series after the original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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