The Ass-2 Or Tou Salaam May Not Exist

[Skull Leader]

Further to that, more Zentraedi/Meltrandi fleets had to have been encountered in the years after space war I. By the time of the Mac7 episode "fleet of the strongest women", they aren't really surprised once they realize they're fighting another Meltrandi fleet and seem to have a set plan ready to go (IE the "Minmay attack". They just take the attitude of "oh, it's another fleet.."

[Ginrai]

As I understand it, that is because Steve Yun told them it was Sylphide, which goes along with the various names of myth for many of the mecha: Auroran, Basilisk, Garm, Salamander etc. But to Rob's credit, his SDC: Southern Cross Universe has the fighter listed as Shrewfield, with the addenda:

I'm not completely certain that 'Shrewfield' is the correct translation of the katakana shi-ru-fi-ru-do.

389564[/snapback]

Yeah, Rob is not my problem. My problem is Peter and Pieter, who are both totally full of wrong information that they continually perpetuate. And they're rude and arrogant about it. I don't care if they want to make it follow a mythological naming scheme it does not fit, it is patently -wrong-. There's also no way in hell it transforms, even if the Robotech narrator accidently called it a Veritech once. I still think Sherfield is the most logical interpretation of shirufirudo, but Sylphide is just completely out of the question.

Edited April 10, 2006 by Ginrai

[Noyhauser]

Yeah, Rob is not my problem. My problem is Peter and Pieter, who are both totally full of wrong information that they continually perpetuate. And they're rude and arrogant about it. I don't care if they want to make it follow a mythological naming scheme it does not fit, it is patently -wrong-. There's also no way in hell it transforms, even if the Robotech narrator accidently called it a Veritech once. I still think Sherfield is the most logical interpretation of shirufirudo, but Sylphide is just completely out of the question.

389712[/snapback]

Shall we start a lynch mob?

*Lights his torch, picks up his pitchfork*

[JB0]

Yeah, Rob is not my problem. My problem is Peter and Pieter, who are both totally full of wrong information that they continually perpetuate. And they're rude and arrogant about it. I don't care if they want to make it follow a mythological naming scheme it does not fit, it is patently -wrong-. There's also no way in hell it transforms, even if the Robotech narrator accidently called it a Veritech once. I still think Sherfield is the most logical interpretation of shirufirudo, but Sylphide is just completely out of the question.

389712[/snapback]

Shall we start a lynch mob?

*Lights his torch, picks up his pitchfork*

389716[/snapback]

I think lunch mobs are confined by law to the HG legal debate thread.

Edited April 10, 2006 by JB0

[Noyhauser]

Yeah, Rob is not my problem. My problem is Peter and Pieter, who are both totally full of wrong information that they continually perpetuate. And they're rude and arrogant about it. I don't care if they want to make it follow a mythological naming scheme it does not fit, it is patently -wrong-. There's also no way in hell it transforms, even if the Robotech narrator accidently called it a Veritech once. I still think Sherfield is the most logical interpretation of shirufirudo, but Sylphide is just completely out of the question.

389712[/snapback]

Shall we start a lynch mob?

*Lights his torch, picks up his pitchfork*

389716[/snapback]

I think lunch mobs are confined by law to the HG legal debate thread.

389740[/snapback]

awww...

Well I guess I'll to keep my culinary interests restricted to the appropriate area in the future.

[azrael]

...snip...

389712[/snapback]

Shall we start a lynch mob?

*Lights his torch, picks up his pitchfork*

389716[/snapback]

I think lunch mobs are confined by law to the HG legal debate thread.

389740[/snapback]

awww...

Well I guess I'll to keep my culinary interests restricted to the appropriate area in the future.

389743[/snapback]

Lynch mobs are confined to the HG debate.....Lunch mobs....those I believe confined to the MW cafeteria. But that only happens when Graham cooks.

[Noyhauser]

Ah, right, thanks for the clarification, because that went totally over my head

[1st Border Red Devil]

There's also no way in hell it transforms, even if the Robotech narrator accidently called it a Veritech once.

Actually twice. And I wouldn't be too sure about that as there are more seems on that fighter than are necessary, in addition to something that looks suspiciously like a head beneath the fighter. It appears that some of the parts might telescope out of their housings. I would also point out that The Sentinels preproduction contained what is, for all intents and purposes, a retcon of the Sylphide: the VTOL.

Sylphide is just completely out of the question.

Not to take you to task over something, but unless you are a translator by trade or someone that fluent in Japanese and English (and for all I know, you are) its usually not so wise to be that adamant. There is also the fact that it would appear to follow the common naming scheme of the Southern Cross mecha (the only odd men out are the Logan, Monocle and Falcon).

[reddsun1]

Actually, in reference to the appearance of the Macross: I found this screen cap, credited as "emerging from hyperspace" just before crashing on Earth. It for all intents and purposes, looks an awful lot like it did after refurbishing by the humans--other than the bridge/body section being missing [destroyed in battle?]. Much more square and mechanical in overall appearance, as opposed to the "organic" look of the SA gunboat sketches.

[Ginrai]

Actually twice.

Big deal, the Robotech narrator is frequently wrong. Tomahawk squadrons, anyone?

And I wouldn't be too sure about that as there are more seems on that fighter than are necessary, in addition to something that looks suspiciously like a head beneath the fighter. It appears that some of the parts might telescope out of their housings. I would also point out that The Sentinels preproduction contained what is, for all intents and purposes, a retcon of the Sylphide: the VTOL.

I don't believe for one second there is enough space in that tight little design for anything to telescope out, especially since the parts you want to telescope should be jet intakes filled with uh, air. Furthermore, there is ZERO evidence in either the Southern Cross TV show, or the source material in TIA SC or anything else that remotely suggests it transforms. It is a fabrication of the RRG, just like the BS names for the Bioroids, and imaginary ships like the "Tou Salaam" and the name "JOTUN". It's fanfic crap.

As for the VTOL being a redesigned Sherfield, I don't buy it. The nose is the wrong shape, the "nacelles" or whatever are in the wrong shape in the wrong place, the wings are really different. The only real similiarity is the face that it has two uh, "nacelles" next to the cockpit like that. I think the Sentinels VTOl is just as likely a ripoff of the Bronco II from Orguss or a combination of both. The Sherfield's design is not particularly unique, but the one thing that IS distinctive, the vertical stabilizers in the middle of the wings, is not in the VTOL design. I think you're reading too much into it to support the insane pet theories of the Peters.

Not to take you to task over something, but unless you are a translator by trade or someone that fluent in Japanese and English (and for all I know, you are) its usually not so wise to be that adamant. There is also the fact that it would appear to follow the common naming scheme of the Southern Cross mecha (the only odd men out are the Logan, Monocle and Falcon).

389769[/snapback]

I'm not a translator by trade, but I have taken college Japanese and I can read katakana just fine, thanks. Fi-ru-do is FIELD. FIDE would fai-do. Feel free to run it by Matt Alt, or I will next time I see him online, since he IS a professional translator, but it does not take a deep understanding of Japanese to know that Sylphide is a bogus reading of shi-ru-fi-ru-do.

You prove the point nicely when you bring up the Logan, Monocle, and Falcon. Logan, Monocle, Falcon, and Sherfield. They're not myths. The naming scheme is not absolute. Deal with it, Pete and friends.

[Edited to replace VTOL with Sherfield when I said VTOL being a redesigned VTOL, because I'm an idiot.]

Edited April 14, 2006 by Ginrai

[maxjenius81]

As I recall RRG never referenced the VF-7 as a veritech fighter until harmony gold started to directly state canon and non-canon facts. While they may have been invovled in that process, im sure HG held the ultimate power over them and its a similar situation to Armor-01/Armor-10.

Btw, about the translation arguement I found this interesting:

Sylphid

JAPANESE NAME:

TAF 'shi-ru-fu-ii-ru-do'(?Shrewfield?)

MAIN EPISODES SEEN IN:

#39, #42, #43

MAIN WRITTEN SOURCE MATERIAL:

Palladium's Southern Cross RPG, This is Animation #10: Southern Cross.

REFERENCE FOR ANIMATION SHEETS:

This is Animation #10: Southern Cross, My Anime, June 1984 Insert.

COMMENTS:

No original data on this aircraft seems to exist, so our files are based on speculation from the animation and animation sheets. The only pictures in TIA#10 consist of models. The names come from the branch description text in TIA#10.

The RPG refers to the Sylphid as the Spectre. We adopted the RPG name of Sylphid for the TAF fighter due to the lack of a good translation of the intended Japanese name. Overall, we decided to be more consistent with the source material than RPG information.

Thats from their "liner" notes about each techinical file.

[Boxer]

As for the VTOL being a redesigned VTOL, I don't buy it. The nose is the wrong shape, the "nacelles" or whatever are in the wrong shape in the wrong place, the wings are really different. The only real similiarity is the face that it has two uh, "nacelles" next to the cockpit like that. I think the Sentinels VTOl is just as likely a ripoff of the Bronco II from Orguss or a combination of both. The Sherfield's design is not particularly unique, but the one thing that IS distinctive, the vertical stabilizers in the middle of the wings, is not in the VTOL design. I think you're reading too much into it to support the insane pet theories of the Peters.

I was actually about to scream "Bronco II!" when I saw that lineart. It isn't an exact ripoff, but it's enough.

And does HG have rights to Orguss anyway? If they're off running around with their plastic toy 'very-techs' and ignoring the cool Orguss toys, why don't they just allow someone else to port over a potential series?

[Ginrai]

As I recall RRG never referenced the VF-7 as a veritech fighter until harmony gold started to directly state canon and non-canon facts.  While they may have been invovled in that process, im sure HG held the ultimate power over them and its a similar situation to Armor-01/Armor-10.

Until the RRG had their falling out with HG, they were the ones dictating what was "official" and what wasn't on Robotech.com, so a lot of RRG bullshit got pencilled in on RT.com in the early days. Some of it has been written out by Yune or Yun or Bateman or whoever since then, but some of their poo remains.

Btw, about the translation arguement I found this interesting:

Sylphid

JAPANESE NAME:

TAF 'shi-ru-fu-ii-ru-do'(?Shrewfield?)

...

The RPG refers to the Sylphid as the Spectre. We adopted the RPG name of Sylphid for the TAF fighter due to the lack of a good translation of the intended Japanese name. Overall, we decided to be more consistent with the source material than RPG information.

Thats from their "liner" notes about each techinical file.

389905[/snapback]

Yeah, what the hell is that? So they ignore the RPG and then make up their own, equally wrong version? They even admit the katakana indicates FIELD. It's the shrew/sher part that is iffy. FIELD is not even in question. Sylphid has no basis in the Japanese text.

[Ginrai]

I was actually about to scream "Bronco II!" when I saw that lineart. It isn't an exact ripoff, but it's enough.

And does HG have rights to Orguss anyway? If they're off running around with their plastic toy 'very-techs' and ignoring the cool Orguss toys, why don't they just allow someone else to port over a potential series?

390096[/snapback]

They have no rights to Orguss at all. Orguss was not a Tatsunoko production, it was a Tokyo Movie Shinsha production. In the late 80's early 90's US Renditions the license for Orguss and released about half of the TV series dubbed in English on VHS. Of course, US Renditions went out of business and never finished the job.

[Boxer]

And nobody ever bothered to pick it up again?

I mean, what's so different about Orguss that makes anyone not want to try again? It's close to Macross, yet refreshingly different with a facinating story. I mean, D-weapon!

But as I am drifting horribly off topic, I'll cease my tangent here : x

[Ginrai]

Yeah, that's right. No one ever bothered to pick it up again. Sad. Mostly likely because the dub was never completed and it wasn't worth it to comission a new one, I'd guess.

[VF-18S Hornet]

But it's still an idea that was never really developed.  I mean, they happened upon a recent wreck, and we know from the beginning of Macross that there are Zentraedi fleets out hunting for remnants of the Supervision Army... yet for the next 45 years, all they come across is the Protodeviln sealed on Varauta 4, despite a mass exodus of humankind to colonize the galaxy?

388909[/snapback]

I Agree there should be a storyling that tells of the SA rise to power now that the Zentreadi are no longer a threat to them. one could say they could have been responsible for the dissapearances of a few Megaroad colony ships including the Megaroad 1.

[JB0]

But it's still an idea that was never really developed.  I mean, they happened upon a recent wreck, and we know from the beginning of Macross that there are Zentraedi fleets out hunting for remnants of the Supervision Army... yet for the next 45 years, all they come across is the Protodeviln sealed on Varauta 4, despite a mass exodus of humankind to colonize the galaxy?

388909[/snapback]

I Agree there should be a storyling that tells of the SA rise to power now that the Zentreadi are no longer a threat to them. one could say they could have been responsible for the dissapearances of a few Megaroad colony ships including the Megaroad 1.

390856[/snapback]

Why aren't the zentradi a threat to the supervision army?

[Cabbit Commando]

From every thing I have heard in the films, we only took out ONE Zentradi fleet. There are MANY more out there & after seeing some of the episodes of Macross tv again I don't think the Zentradi are just simply mopping up SA leftovers. The SA may be on the decline but it sounds like they are still a potant active threat.

I would love to see more done with them, but I think Kawamori is more interested in doing "New Things" so I don't think he would do a show with them that didn't have some WIERD spin to it.

[azrael]

From every thing I have heard in the films, we only took out ONE Zentradi fleet.  There are MANY more out there & after seeing some of the episodes of Macross tv again I don't think the Zentradi are just simply mopping up SA leftovers.  The SA may be on the decline but it sounds like they are still a potant active threat.

I would love to see more done with them, but I think Kawamori is more interested in doing "New Things" so I don't think he would do a show with them that didn't have some WIERD spin to it.

391010[/snapback]

Space is big....And throughout the series, we've only visited very few locations. The SA might not even been around this end of the galaxy.