ewilen Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Oh and the SWAG was to make the VF's armor comparable to the destroids when in battloid mode meening with out it the destroids had at least 3 times the armor strength of the VFs. This could be true but I think you will search in vain for concrete evidence comparing the strength of Destroid and Valkyrie armor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mislovrit Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Greater visability, At the cost of being a even a greater target themselves. Same argument been around since the days when the M-48, M-60, Centurion and Chieftain vs the T-54/5, T-62, T-64, and T-72 were the mainstay. greater firing range,The fire-control systems and the weapon(s) are important than what height it is fired from. they would be firing at the vulnerable tops of tanks not the heavily armored fronts Against older un-upgraded generation tank that would be correct, But with the advent of top-attack weapons, modern tanks been upgraded to remove the vulnerabiliity against those weapons. Mecha (Robots) also have manueverability in thier favor. They can dodge more easily in more ways than a tank.Prey tell how is a giant biped robot more manueverable then a tank or any other armor vehicle? So yes tanks may see them coming but they're a lot more vunerable. Making the assumption the tank crew won't be firing at the mechs and while moving to either keep the distance from better armed mechs or closing the distance against lesser armed mechs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 they would be firing at the vulnerable tops of tanks not the heavily armored fronts Against older un-upgraded generation tank that would be correct, But with the advent of top-attack weapons, modern tanks been upgraded to remove the vulnerabiliity against those weapons. Last I heard tanks were still less-heavily armored on top than on the front face. Mecha (Robots) also have manueverability in thier favor. They can dodge more easily in more ways than a tank.Prey tell how is a giant biped robot more manueverable then a tank or any other armor vehicle? Sidestep = 2 axes of motion VS 1 axis of motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mislovrit Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Last I heard tanks were still less-heavily armored on top than on the front face.It greatly depends on which tank like the Abrams is iirc the front third is armored while the Merkevas and the latest Leopard 2A6 varients the entire top is heavily armored. Sidestep = 2 axes of motion VS 1 axis of motion. Again what with the assumption only the mech would be moving during the engagement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Sidestep = 2 axes of motion VS 1 axis of motion.Again what with the assumption only the mech would be moving during the engagement? No. Not really. Conventional vehicles can go forwards/backwards. They arc this line in a turn. They CANNOT move sideways. A mech has forward, back, left, and right. And all combinations thereof. It has full 2D motion. Hence a mech is more maneuverable than a tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mislovrit Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 No. Not really. Conventional vehicles can go forwards/backwards. They arc this line in a turn. They CANNOT move sideways. Like a human sidestepping or by pivoting the torso to face one way and the legs another?A mech has forward, back, left, and right. And all combinations thereof. It has full 2D motion. Hence a mech is more maneuverable than a tank.Kinda of irrelevent you have to take into account the turret, which will keep track of the mech regardless of direction it is moving in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfx Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 No. Not really. Conventional vehicles can go forwards/backwards. They arc this line in a turn. They CANNOT move sideways. Like a human sidestepping or by pivoting the torso to face one way and the legs another?A mech has forward, back, left, and right. And all combinations thereof. It has full 2D motion. Hence a mech is more maneuverable than a tank.Kinda of irrelevent you have to take into account the turret, which will keep track of the mech regardless of direction it is moving in. I've been away of this thread for some time i see. To answer your question a on the 1s page , mislovrit, it was the scene in afganistan (was it? or one of the other stans) when the Raiden armours made an appearance. The UN tanks couldn't hit any of them. And by the time they were close enough for CQB, the tanks were just sitting ducks. Maneuverability issues....its not hard to imagine really. Imagine a person with a gun running up to you, you're in a wheelchair, and someone's on your shoulders holding a gun. 1stly, the person has total freedom of movement and control for his legs and his aiming, able to compensate for either. Whereas you, only control the movement of your wheelchair, which as it is has limited movement (unable to sidestep) and you need to rely on your "gunner", both unable to compensate for each other. I'm no military techy, but i guess there are computers and electronics that compensate for movement and aiming....but again, the guy running up to you can sidestep, dodge, jump, crawl, crouch etc and a million other things to dodge your fire. You have a guy who has to fire a cannon on top of you and how you move also affects his fire. The guy running up to you can pivot his gun, and move at the same time....pretty much like Quake 3 mouse + keyboard. Call gasaraki anime magic, but it did make sense to me. Its just that today's technology doesn't allow for such agile movements for mecha. They're still too clumsy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 No. Not really. Conventional vehicles can go forwards/backwards. They arc this line in a turn. They CANNOT move sideways. Like a human sidestepping or by pivoting the torso to face one way and the legs another? Like a human sidestepping. A mech has forward, back, left, and right. And all combinations thereof. It has full 2D motion. Hence a mech is more maneuverable than a tank.Kinda of irrelevent you have to take into account the turret, which will keep track of the mech regardless of direction it is moving in. The mech's still more maneuverable. ... And yes, I did forget about rotating turrets when I initially said that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Just edited the topic title to correct the spelling. The wrong spelling of 'Arrival' was driving me nuts. Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 Just edited the topic title to correct the spelling. The wrong spelling of 'Arrival' was driving me nuts. Graham You're a good man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promethuem5 Posted April 14, 2005 Author Share Posted April 14, 2005 (edited) Hahaha, me too.... I realized it right as I pushed Post New Topic... My bad. EDIT: Holy crap! Post 800! I am a loser Edited April 14, 2005 by promethuem5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mislovrit Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 Like a human sidestepping. And at what speed, cause the mech have to move faster than the turret tracking it and the mach 5 projectile fired at it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mislovrit Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 I'm no military techy, but i guess there are computers and electronics that compensate for movement and aiming....but again, the guy running up to you can sidestep, dodge, jump, crawl, crouch etc and a million other things to dodge your fire. You have a guy who has to fire a cannon on top of you and how you move also affects his fire. The guy running up to you can pivot his gun, and move at the same time....pretty much like Quake 3 mouse + keyboard. \ I would recommand going to http://www.tank-net.org/ if you to truely know about tanks, their crews and the use of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 Like a human sidestepping. And at what speed, cause the mech have to move faster than the turret tracking it and the mach 5 projectile fired at it? I was just saying they're more maneuverable, hypothetically. And I have ALREADY acknowledged that I briefly forgot about tank turrets. We're talking in circles here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grss1982 Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 speaking of destroid action, just wanted to post this sweet pic of said destroid in action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promethuem5 Posted April 22, 2005 Author Share Posted April 22, 2005 ....Destroid....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 speaking of destroid action, just wanted to post this sweet pic of said destroid in action Soon to be destroyed Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Like a human sidestepping. And at what speed, cause the mech have to move faster than the turret tracking it and the mach 5 projectile fired at it? Ah, but everbody knows that in giant robot anime, shots fired travel slowly enough that they can be seen by the human eye and easily dodged at the last second by a 60 ton giant robot. Happens all the time in Gundam animes, especially with the slow moving beams from their beam rifles . Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briareos9 Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Ah, but everbody knows that in giant robot anime, shots fired travel slowly enough that they can be seen by the human eye and easily dodged at the last second by a 60 ton giant robot. Happens all the time in Gundam animes, especially with the slow moving beams from their beam rifles .Graham Which just furthers the support behind them using large caliber, low velocity shells which'd pretty much just bounce off a real MBT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Ah, but everbody knows that in giant robot anime, shots fired travel slowly enough that they can be seen by the human eye and easily dodged at the last second by a 60 ton giant robot. Happens all the time in Gundam animes, especially with the slow moving beams from their beam rifles .Graham Which just furthers the support behind them using large caliber, low velocity shells which'd pretty much just bounce off a real MBT. But tanks can't get their shells up to speed in anime physics either. Meaning that the mech can run in and pry the door open with it's bare hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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